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Ciaran disambig suggests that "Saighir" simply means "the Elder", not a placename taking the genitive. Anyone know Gaelic? - LlywelynII ( talk) 17:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
While it's certainly not proven that the Cornish Pirran, and either Irish Kieran, was the same person, it does seem to be overstepping the mark to call the theory "erroneous". A considerable variety of (referenced) material and diversity of view appears on the St. Pirran page, for example:
'Views from modern scholars Charles Plummer suggested that Piran might, instead, be identified with Saint Ciarán of Clonmacnoise, who founded the monastery of Clonmacnoise also in County Offaly but this is doubtful since this saint is believed to have died of yellow fever at the age of thirty-two and was traditionally buried at Clonmacnoise. His father is, however, sometimes said to have been a Cornishman. Joseph Loth, moreover, has argued, on detailed philological grounds, that the two names could not possibly be identical. G. H. Doble thought that Piran was a Welshman from Glamorgan, citing the lost chapel once dedicated to him in Cardiff. David Nash Ford accepts the Ciarán of Clonmacnoise identification, whilst further suggesting that Piran's father in the Exeter life, Domuel, be identified with Dywel ab Erbin, a 5th century prince of Dumnonia (Devon and Cornwall). The St Piran Trust has undertaken research which [1] has led them to the conclusion that Saint Piran was indeed Saint Ciarán of Saighir or perhaps a disciple, as indicated by Dr James Brennan of Kilkenny and Dr T. F. G. Dexter, whose thesis is held in the Royal Cornwall Museum.' Oisinoc ( talk) 12:34, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
There is long-standing academic disagreement in the dating of the life of St. Ciarán of Saighir. Traditional Irish sources (his vitae, the Felire, etc.) ascribe his missionary activity as before St. Patrick, but assign no dates to his life. If true, he would have likely been born somewhere near the end of the 4th century and evangelizing in the 5th, and some writers can accept this (Plummer, Hogan, Kenny). Modern scholarship tends to view this with skepticism, (Bearing-Gould, Sharpe, O'Riain, Sperber) pushing his life back variously into the 5th and even 6th centuries, or hypothesizing that he didn't exist at all. We should present this lack of consesus, as there are no firm dates given in any sources; all references which give numbers ultimately derive from modern guesswork, with little substance supporting them. Ri Osraige ( talk) 14:44, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
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Ciaran disambig suggests that "Saighir" simply means "the Elder", not a placename taking the genitive. Anyone know Gaelic? - LlywelynII ( talk) 17:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
While it's certainly not proven that the Cornish Pirran, and either Irish Kieran, was the same person, it does seem to be overstepping the mark to call the theory "erroneous". A considerable variety of (referenced) material and diversity of view appears on the St. Pirran page, for example:
'Views from modern scholars Charles Plummer suggested that Piran might, instead, be identified with Saint Ciarán of Clonmacnoise, who founded the monastery of Clonmacnoise also in County Offaly but this is doubtful since this saint is believed to have died of yellow fever at the age of thirty-two and was traditionally buried at Clonmacnoise. His father is, however, sometimes said to have been a Cornishman. Joseph Loth, moreover, has argued, on detailed philological grounds, that the two names could not possibly be identical. G. H. Doble thought that Piran was a Welshman from Glamorgan, citing the lost chapel once dedicated to him in Cardiff. David Nash Ford accepts the Ciarán of Clonmacnoise identification, whilst further suggesting that Piran's father in the Exeter life, Domuel, be identified with Dywel ab Erbin, a 5th century prince of Dumnonia (Devon and Cornwall). The St Piran Trust has undertaken research which [1] has led them to the conclusion that Saint Piran was indeed Saint Ciarán of Saighir or perhaps a disciple, as indicated by Dr James Brennan of Kilkenny and Dr T. F. G. Dexter, whose thesis is held in the Royal Cornwall Museum.' Oisinoc ( talk) 12:34, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
There is long-standing academic disagreement in the dating of the life of St. Ciarán of Saighir. Traditional Irish sources (his vitae, the Felire, etc.) ascribe his missionary activity as before St. Patrick, but assign no dates to his life. If true, he would have likely been born somewhere near the end of the 4th century and evangelizing in the 5th, and some writers can accept this (Plummer, Hogan, Kenny). Modern scholarship tends to view this with skepticism, (Bearing-Gould, Sharpe, O'Riain, Sperber) pushing his life back variously into the 5th and even 6th centuries, or hypothesizing that he didn't exist at all. We should present this lack of consesus, as there are no firm dates given in any sources; all references which give numbers ultimately derive from modern guesswork, with little substance supporting them. Ri Osraige ( talk) 14:44, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
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I have just modified one external link on Ciarán of Saigir. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:13, 7 August 2017 (UTC)