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Chris Beck (Navy SEAL) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
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This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
A fact from Chris Beck (Navy SEAL) appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 16 June 2013 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
Regarding the sentence In the book, Speckhard notes that Beck had a desire to die honorably so that she would not have to "wrestle anymore with the emotional pain that stemmed from the lack of congruency between his gender identity and body": I think it should read either so that he would not have to wrestle anymore... or ...the lack of congruency between her gender identity and body. It is jarring to use both male and female pronouns in the same sentence talking about the same thing. I prefer the male pronoun in this case, because I think it was while she was still functioning as a man that she "had a desire to die honorably" and was experiencing a lack of congruency; the time frame of the sentence suggests male for both pronouns. I bring this here for discussion because I know pronouns can be a touchy issue when dealing with a transgendered person, and for the most part this article handles it very well, but I think this sentence needs fixing. -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:45, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
I think the dual picture in the lede is useful; I actually spoke with the subject, and she is proud of the military photo (and of her service). Much of the news coverage of beck had side by side photos in the same fashion.-- Obi-Wan Kenobi ( talk) 02:13, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
I removed the incomplete tag and filled out the rest of her ribbons and devices. — - dain omite 03:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
The awards shown do not match what is visible in the photo. The picture is from September 2011. She retired in 2011 implying the picture is close to, if not the same as, the final award rack. Unfortunately, the awards section does not cite sources. Is there something that's supposed to be more accurate than a photo of Beck? -- Marc Kupper| talk 07:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The USSocom Medal that is included on Beck's fifth row of ribbons is not an official US Military medal. It is a commemorative organizational award but is not an official medal authorized for wear therefore I am removing it from the page. 184.178.219.137 ( talk) 22:05, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
In the movie her dad mentioned she was a middle child...does anyone know her birth order? Can it be added to the main page? Pollypath ( talk) 17:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
According to the CNN documentary, Lady Valor, (12 minutes in) they say Gardner is a year and a half older. Lizzie is referred to as the baby of the family. Fourteen minutes into the same documentary, Kristin says "She's probably about 10 or 12 years younger..."--00:59, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
93.187.35.94 (
talk)--
93.187.35.94 (
talk) 00:59, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Do not add unsubstantiated awards to Beck's award section without documentation. Unless you have access to Beck's DD214 you have no right to edit the award section. 100.3.240.69 ( talk) 16:25, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure where we stand on pronouns for transgender people right now—I know it's a topic of frequent discussion—but this Washington Post article uses male pronouns to describe her pre-transition, "agreed with the use of male pronouns for describing her past identity." That's a bit ambiguous to me, whether the author did this and she didn't object, or whether this is Beck's preference. Something to consider for the future. Right now, we seem to be avoiding pronouns for her pre-transition but using feminine ones when we do.
We could ask her, but she's been given (IMO) a rather harsh soft block. "Lady Valor" seems like a perfectly acceptable user name for her, since it's an alias of hers. -- BDD ( talk) 22:18, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Vote: Should Retirement be added though not specified? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.44.2.152 ( talk) 18:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
The subject of this Wikipedia page was interviewed in a long-form video podcast interview with the conservative commentator Robby Starbuck, and this interview appeared through his podcast series on December 1, 2022 (with a likely interview date of much earlier than this). In this interview, the subject of this Wikipedia page made it clear that the transition had stopped, and that hormone usage had stopped approximately seven years ago (no year identified, but perhaps 2015 if not earlier).
There has been at least one anonymous edit incorporating this, which has been reverted. We are going to need to integrate the subject of this Wikipedia page's own statements in this long-form interview into this article in order to remain accurate.
Neptune1969 ( talk) 15:46, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Video interview released today at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4XBqxrYVoo&t=90s which seems to indicate Beck has decided to stop cross-sex hormones and feminine presentation. THIS should be interesting.
Beck says they stopped hormones over seven years ago, and are here speaking against transition, especially for children.
Rorybowman ( talk) 17:47, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Certain editors here are going to work very hard to bury this. Beck was a cause celeb for the movement. 73.36.191.123 ( talk) 15:40, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
Well, I think the page should be his legal name, if its Kristen Beck then it should remain Kristen Beck until he changes it. Maybe the picture should be changed from his trans pic. 76.30.133.9 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:18, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Skepticalgiraffe I totally agree with your sentiments here. It’s absolutely preposterous for us to even consider that actual video of a subject speaking about himself, or more correctly in this case, herself, is a reliable source. Absurd. Clearly it’s essential for either CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, WaPo or the NYT to confirm her detransition. Otherwise, it’s all just so much fantasy. Boscaswell talk 01:40, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Any evidence their name has changed? They still go by Kristin on their facebook page. Bkatcher ( talk) 04:17, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Chris Beck (Navy SEAL) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
A fact from Chris Beck (Navy SEAL) appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 16 June 2013 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
Regarding the sentence In the book, Speckhard notes that Beck had a desire to die honorably so that she would not have to "wrestle anymore with the emotional pain that stemmed from the lack of congruency between his gender identity and body": I think it should read either so that he would not have to wrestle anymore... or ...the lack of congruency between her gender identity and body. It is jarring to use both male and female pronouns in the same sentence talking about the same thing. I prefer the male pronoun in this case, because I think it was while she was still functioning as a man that she "had a desire to die honorably" and was experiencing a lack of congruency; the time frame of the sentence suggests male for both pronouns. I bring this here for discussion because I know pronouns can be a touchy issue when dealing with a transgendered person, and for the most part this article handles it very well, but I think this sentence needs fixing. -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:45, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
I think the dual picture in the lede is useful; I actually spoke with the subject, and she is proud of the military photo (and of her service). Much of the news coverage of beck had side by side photos in the same fashion.-- Obi-Wan Kenobi ( talk) 02:13, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
I removed the incomplete tag and filled out the rest of her ribbons and devices. — - dain omite 03:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
The awards shown do not match what is visible in the photo. The picture is from September 2011. She retired in 2011 implying the picture is close to, if not the same as, the final award rack. Unfortunately, the awards section does not cite sources. Is there something that's supposed to be more accurate than a photo of Beck? -- Marc Kupper| talk 07:01, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The USSocom Medal that is included on Beck's fifth row of ribbons is not an official US Military medal. It is a commemorative organizational award but is not an official medal authorized for wear therefore I am removing it from the page. 184.178.219.137 ( talk) 22:05, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
In the movie her dad mentioned she was a middle child...does anyone know her birth order? Can it be added to the main page? Pollypath ( talk) 17:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
According to the CNN documentary, Lady Valor, (12 minutes in) they say Gardner is a year and a half older. Lizzie is referred to as the baby of the family. Fourteen minutes into the same documentary, Kristin says "She's probably about 10 or 12 years younger..."--00:59, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
93.187.35.94 (
talk)--
93.187.35.94 (
talk) 00:59, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Do not add unsubstantiated awards to Beck's award section without documentation. Unless you have access to Beck's DD214 you have no right to edit the award section. 100.3.240.69 ( talk) 16:25, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure where we stand on pronouns for transgender people right now—I know it's a topic of frequent discussion—but this Washington Post article uses male pronouns to describe her pre-transition, "agreed with the use of male pronouns for describing her past identity." That's a bit ambiguous to me, whether the author did this and she didn't object, or whether this is Beck's preference. Something to consider for the future. Right now, we seem to be avoiding pronouns for her pre-transition but using feminine ones when we do.
We could ask her, but she's been given (IMO) a rather harsh soft block. "Lady Valor" seems like a perfectly acceptable user name for her, since it's an alias of hers. -- BDD ( talk) 22:18, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Vote: Should Retirement be added though not specified? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.44.2.152 ( talk) 18:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
The subject of this Wikipedia page was interviewed in a long-form video podcast interview with the conservative commentator Robby Starbuck, and this interview appeared through his podcast series on December 1, 2022 (with a likely interview date of much earlier than this). In this interview, the subject of this Wikipedia page made it clear that the transition had stopped, and that hormone usage had stopped approximately seven years ago (no year identified, but perhaps 2015 if not earlier).
There has been at least one anonymous edit incorporating this, which has been reverted. We are going to need to integrate the subject of this Wikipedia page's own statements in this long-form interview into this article in order to remain accurate.
Neptune1969 ( talk) 15:46, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Video interview released today at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4XBqxrYVoo&t=90s which seems to indicate Beck has decided to stop cross-sex hormones and feminine presentation. THIS should be interesting.
Beck says they stopped hormones over seven years ago, and are here speaking against transition, especially for children.
Rorybowman ( talk) 17:47, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Certain editors here are going to work very hard to bury this. Beck was a cause celeb for the movement. 73.36.191.123 ( talk) 15:40, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
Well, I think the page should be his legal name, if its Kristen Beck then it should remain Kristen Beck until he changes it. Maybe the picture should be changed from his trans pic. 76.30.133.9 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:18, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Skepticalgiraffe I totally agree with your sentiments here. It’s absolutely preposterous for us to even consider that actual video of a subject speaking about himself, or more correctly in this case, herself, is a reliable source. Absurd. Clearly it’s essential for either CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, WaPo or the NYT to confirm her detransition. Otherwise, it’s all just so much fantasy. Boscaswell talk 01:40, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Any evidence their name has changed? They still go by Kristin on their facebook page. Bkatcher ( talk) 04:17, 7 December 2022 (UTC)