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I Really think its needs to cover the many different parts of chorlton. Like Nell Lane, and Mersey Bank.
Its not all Chorlton-Ville, We dont all Juggle and drink on chortlon green.
I should hope not. We Chorlton Green drinkers know how to spell and punctuate.
Although the "Estates" are technically part of Chorlton, they are classed as being part of "Barlow Moor", if you are interested. Anyway, what's to talk about two residential, largely council, estates anyway? Unless you want to talk about the crime stats of course.
See, Now that attitude the problem, You "Chorlton Greeners" act all stuck up like that, then you wonder why we steal your cars?
The Estates are the heart of chorlton, and manchester, without us there would be no "chorlton green"
Maybe you should into mersey bank or nell lane estates and express your views there? I doubt you would.
If you do steal cars it's because you are criminals. "The Estates" are residential add-ons and play little part in the culture or development of Chorlton. That's not a criticism, just a fact. Chorlton Green is hundreds of years old....[no, it isn't, it's just over a hundred 86.12.129.12 ( talk) 10:52, 11 December 2011 (UTC)] can you say the same of the estates?
As for expressing my views in Nell lane or Merseybank? I wouldn't do that because a) there would be no point, and b) I don't want my head kicked in. This is common sense surely?
I don't live in Chorlton Green by the way, I drink there from time to time.
It is wrong to say that until the 1990's Chorlton was working class whatever that means. The development of the area was by those workers who could afford to live away from their work in Manchester. Many of these lived in rented properties in what is now referred to as Chorlton Green area and many followed with the building of the council and private estates between the wars. They kept the green pubs and local shops viable before the students and trendies took over the area.
The article for Val Stevens asserts no independent notability apart from representing the Chorlton ward. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abid Chohan. JASpencer 09:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I strongly oppose any political merging with these people. They are elected officials, and have no bearing on the area of Chorlton other than that.
It is sensible to mention their involvement, but to go further and attempt to absorb their own entries is inappropriate and I WILL oppose it. -- Hardylane 22:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I strongly oppose the merger of councillors with their wards - not only does this make it much harder to keep track of which councillors exist and that the information is correct, but it adds information that isn't really relevant to the Chorlton-cum-Hardy article. Val Stevens is notable - she is the Deputy Leader of Manchester City Council. Thegraham 09:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
These three councillors are only notable because they represent Chorlton-cum-Hardy on Manchester City Council. The individuals outwith their representation for Chorlton-cum-Hardy are not notable. I strongly support the merger. Rhyddfrydol 01:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the councillor entries should be removed altogether, since their existance in the Wikipedia only serve to publicise themselves. None of them have brought anything of merit or note to Chorlton. I continue to oppose having their name on the Chorlton page. Hardylane 19:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I would support the removal of all these councillor links: two years later and Angela Gallagher is in another party and another ward. Councillors are not in practice going to stay as representatives for the same wards indefinitely. The information about who is a councillor should just appear in the article for the council itself.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 17:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Harry Goodwin was mentioned in this article and then edited out as not notable. As his connection with Top of the Pops shows he does have the notability: however he should really have his own article first and then a link from Chorlton.---- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 12:38, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Mention of him has been removed: it could be added again with a reliable citation.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 09:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
The ISSN belonged to another work altogether (Manchester : BBDM Ltd, [2001]- a magazine). This one is both a volume in the L & C A S Transactions and an individual book apparently without an ISBN.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 11:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
“ | The name Chorlton-cum-Hardy may be derived from the Old English Ceorlatun Latin cum Old English Ard-Ea, meaning "the settlement of ceorls by trees near the water". | ” |
Doesn't X-cum-Y normally mean two parishes, X and Y, were merged long after the period of naming? — Tamfang ( talk) 05:18, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The name is a competely invented form that first emerged in the late C19th.( Pawelmichal ( talk) 09:07, 3 September 2011 (UTC))
The X-cum-Y names will not necessarily be parishes. Both Chorlton and Hardy are names from the Anglo-Saxon period long before the parish divisions which came in later centuries.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 10:19, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Good point about the citation. The manuscript JM Lloyd refers to may be a transcription or other error, as niether with- or cum- Hardy are mentioned anywhere else I have looked, prior to the period of gentrification. I knew JM Lloyd toward the end of his life [he was the sub-postmaster at Upper Chorlton Road, as was his father before him]. He contributed an enormous ammount to his community, and to historical studies of the area. He did, however, tend to draw conclusions and fill lacunae, and his maps are in no wise reliable. For instance: in his supposed 'Tithe Map' of 1845 he places the 'Pop Cottage' on the entrance to Dark Lane Farm off the Trafford Road [where Railway Terrace now stands]. Many accounts speak of the occupiers being called on to help travellers to Hulme cross the Black Brook when in spate. The Black Brook was culverted by Samuel Brooks, and follows the course of modern Upper Chorlton Road and the Trafford boundary. Therefore the cottage would have been several hundred yards north of his purported location. Pawelmichal ( talk) 13:18, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Withington doesn't warrant a mention in the Domesday Book either. I wish I could remember which late mediaeval or early modern writer described the whole arc south from Manchester to the Mersey as "an reedy, marshy place".
I note your edit. You are of course correct that the area was not part of parochial Chorlton. However, prior to its' creation, the area of Whalley Range that was in the Manor of Withington, known as Jackson's Moss, would have been relevant to any overview of Chorlton, as it was a source of income and fuel, not merely a no-man's land. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.129.12 ( talk) 10:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Felix Folio Secundus makes a valuable point about Chorlton's class composition. Although the area was not mired in rural poverty, it was essentially a backwater until the construction of Wilbraham Road. The Egerton Estate, which controlled the reversion of agricultural leases, at first intended all development to be 'upper class', at both the Chorlton and Fallowfield ends. However,, like the developer of Whalley Range, they found the pressure to move into the highly-profitable upper-middle range irrestisable. This trend accelerated after the coming of the railway. We associate terraced housing with the working-class, but the terraces built here were for the new industrial managerial class. No artisanal building on any scale [apart from near the Green for the laundry, and on the site of the Priory was allowed]. It was only in the inter-war period, with the Egerton Estate relinquishing control to Manchester Corporation of large sections of land, that any social or working-class housing was built. Because this land tended to be on the outskirts of the district, it led to the us-and-them feeling personified in the exchanges at the beginning of this discussion page. The tremendous rise in the value of the land has meant that no significant additions to the lower end of the housing stock have been made since the Nell Lane estate was built in the early '80's. Even the bed-sit land element of local housing has gradually been phased out. In the circs, then, a certain ammount of class tension is perhaps, inevitable. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:19, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Mentioning Slow Train here is unnecessary as it is covered more fully in the article Chorlton Metrolink station.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 10:37, 14 April 2012 (UTC
Duly removed. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 11:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Apparently some editors lack the sense of humour to appreciate the comic potential in the area's name. Shame. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Good points, well made. You can't compare WP to Britannica ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
While depriving the writers of Round the Horne, it certainly has a ring to it, even if the seperate existence of Hardy is debatable. Not faux-historic and bucolic enough for the Victorian property developers though. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 10:28, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Another mention, this time as Hardy-cum-chorlton, in Beyond Our Ken from 1960. It seems that decade was the high-point [or nadir] for comic usage of the name. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 11:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Yet another mention, this time in Doctor in the House. I don't think it was the 'rude' bit of the name that script-writers found funny, just that it was used as a generic, comical Northern name. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 13:01, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
It's ironic that in giving the area a name they thought more bucolic and historic, the Victorians have triggered a century-and-a-half of public hilarity. i don't think it's so much the sexual innuendo, as the sheer incongruity that people find funny. 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:32, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Traditionally, placenames with "cum" (and there are many of them) are not hyphenated. I suppose that since it's commonly hyphenated these days, the name in this case has to be hyphenated in Wikipedia, but I assume (on the basis of evidence from old photos, documents etc.) that it is actually an error. Dadge ( talk) 00:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Nice edits, FFS. Wasn't the Lloyds briefly a fire station of some sort ? Also, somewhere in an MEN article there's mention that Harry H Corbett of Steptoe & Son started his career in am-dram at the Con Club, but a quick search wasn't enough to locate it. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 09:26, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Sadly, life's too short to read a luvvie's autobiography - but someone, somewhere, will do it, sometime. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
These two men were, more than any others, responsible for the development of modern Chorlton. Where would it be more appropriate and accessible to enlarge on this - in this article, or in their biographies ? 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 09:29, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Kudos to the excellent User:Mr Stephen and his anti-vandalism patrols.
The idea that Chorlton is full of wankers is merely unsourced opinion, until there's a valid study. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:14, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) 194.70.181.1 ( talk) 09:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Good call, FFS. An anniversary by definition is one date only. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Given the dearth of materials, how can we be sure of anything prior to the foundation of the chapel ? And also, it's not on the way to anywhere, or at the confluence of any rivers, so is it possible that it was not a cohesive settlememt at all, but a series of isolated homesteads in a marsh ? 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:38, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
There does not seem to be a cohesive entity called Chorlton prior to the establishmentof the Chapel. Even then, the disparate parts, such as Martledge, continued to have an identity until the mass housing boom following the construction of Wilbraham Road and then the railway. Settlement in river valleys made use of the flooded areas for crop growth - risky, but worth it. The surrounding forests would have provide adequate game. The marshiness of the area may well have followed on from the deforestation by farmers. The dearth of early material does lead to speculative entries such as in this article, but the chapel would have been established in Chorlton to fulfil a need, so some population would have existed in a cohesive manner in the area. And don't worry about abuse from Fatuous Fistula. As his Cod Latin name implies, he's not the sharpest tool in the box. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:04, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Beech Road was known earlier as Market Place, which indicates that the area was a focal point for the scattered and sparsely-populated settlements. It's also a clue as to why the chapel was sited there, on what otherwise was a cul-de-sac on the edge of the floodplain. Some confusion is caused by the centre of the village moving during the Victorian era, due to the construction of the railway and Wilbraham Road. By happy accident it allowed the preservation of the historical Chorlton, even if much of what we see today is a Victorian fake. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 11:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
It would be nice if a section about the local economy were included, such as large employers, employment types, etc. FreeFlow99 ( talk) 15:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Why don't you research it and add it then - that's the Wiki bit in the name 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 12:59, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
John Lloyd describes himself as "An Old Chorltonian" on the titlepage of the book being from the old village. When he died in 1991 the South Manchester Reporter reported his membership of many transport history societies and that his grandmother was a draper in Beech Road. An article in the Stretford & Urmston Journal (1978?) gives much more information about him: he was then 64 and his mother Edith was 92. The research for The Township of Chorlton-cum-Hardy took him 18 months and he says he decided to write it because of all the enquiries he got from children (he was a teacher at Chorlton Boys' Grammar School from 1947 until he resigned in 1973: comprehensive education was not to his liking). It is unlikely there is any connection with the two George Lloyds who owned land in Chorlton: the Lloyd's Hotel was an enterprise of James Platt and has a coat of arms of the Lloyd family on the front. George Lloyd resided at Stockton Hall in Yorkshire so Stockton was given to Stockton Road south of High Lane.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 19:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
There was no festival in 2012. Please update if a reliable citation can be found.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 21:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Re: "This article is written like a personal reflection or essay rather than an encyclopedic description of the subject. Please help improve it by rewriting it in an encyclopedic style." Only parts of the article fall below an encyclopedic standard; large parts of it have been written from a neutral point of view with adequate citations.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 14:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Couldn't agree more. The vigilance of editors like FFS or MrStephen ensure that very little unverified essay-like content passes. I would argue for the removal of the tag. 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:52, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
In Lloyd (1972), appendix VI 12 variant spellings are given for Chorlton which were listed in either Booker or Ellwood; 15 for Martledge; and 2 for Hardy. In 1773 by the will of Margaret Usherwood a charity came into existence to provide for the education of "six poor children" under certain conditions which included attendance at Chorlton Chapel. (Lloyd (1972), pp. 61-62 & appendix V. In 1745 the Scots army of Prince Charles Edward was encamped in the district in the winter of 1745/46: in Martledge there is an area formerly known as "Scots Hill" because of this (Lloyd (1972), pp. 62-63). In the Protestation of 1641 54 men of "Chollerton"; 14 of "Mansleache"; and 16 of "Hardie" are recorded as having taken the oath. (Lloyd (1972), appendix III.)---- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 04:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Re: inaugural Chorlton Coffee Festival in June. Should this not wait until it has actually happened and been noticed by the press?-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 04:15, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
WP editors don't have the highest of reputations, but the South Manchester articles are both factual and easy-to-read. And it's entirely down to the scolarship and passion of editors like FFS, Malleus, Mr Stephen and others. Don't be offended if you're not mentioned - the list would be too long. As a general reader interested in the topics, I really admire the way this, and articles on neighbouring areas have been composed. So if WP is ever to lift itself up to the level it aspires to, literate expert knowledge and enthusiasm, as displayed here, is definitely the way ahead. 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Add the much-missed pawelmichal, who was one of the first to start expanding these articles. 194.70.181.1 ( talk) 15:21, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Although it must be pointed out that the use of sarcastic or intemperate language during edits tends to put off occasional editors, some of whom at least have something to offer. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 13:37, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Fair point Malleus. The Internet as a whole, and not just WP, is the domain of the monomaniac, the obsessive, and the just plain dull. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:32, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Whatever happened to J3Mrs ? Her contribs always seemed worthwile. 194.70.181.1 ( talk) 14:20, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
On July 11, 1913, the Manchester Evening News described a woman as being from 'Chorlton-on-Mersey'. Can anyone shed any light as to whether this form was used for any time, or if it's just a mistranscription from shorthand [presumably for Chorlton-on-Medlock]. It seems an elegant name, esp. given the proximity of Ashton-on-Mersey, so I wonder why it never caught on [assuming the former is true]. Although this would have deprived many comedy writers [and schoolboys], of much hilarity. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:35, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Are there any traces of this mysterious earthwork any where in Chorlton ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Re: * Charles Peace, a notorious petty criminal who killed P. C. Nicholas Cock in 1876 (at the Old Trafford end of Manchester Road). On conviction he was hanged at Leeds.
Bowling Green Hotel is illustrated here; not the hotel which existed until 1908 but the present one. Taken from the footpath which crosses the churchyard looking southwards.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 22:43, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Can the editors of this page please have a look at what's happening? A user called Eric Corbett seems hell bent on rewriting this page to suit his own ends. I have reverted several times but no intention of maintaining an edit war with a VERY rude user. Felix, can you help? Hardylane ( talk) 00:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
One of the paragraphs recently deleted (as "trivia") referred to the 1964 TV blues programme recorded at Chorlton-cum-Hardy. The paragraph was not especially well-written, and one of the ref links was dead, but I suggest that a reworded paragraph should be reinstated in the article, such as:
Chorlton-cum-Hardy railway station was long assumed to be the venue for a notable Granada TV concert in 1964 by a number of visiting American blues musicians including Muddy Waters, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee. [1] However, recent research has identified Alexandra Park railway station, at the end of Athol Road, as the actual location. [2] [3]
- ^ Tidman, Gareth (9 November 2006). "When the Blues train rolled into Chorlton". The South Manchester Reporter. Retrieved 11 September 2013.
- ^ Chorlton Civic Society newsletter; February 2009, p. 6
- ^ Blues and Gospel train ticket, Wilbraham Road Railway Station, 7 May 1964. Manchester District Music Archive. Retrieved 2010-10-27.
Other articles perhaps need to be expanded to cover this more fully, but its significance is confirmed by sources such as this, this, this, and this. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 12:45, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
On 7 May 1964, Granada Television broadcast Blues and Gospel Train, a programme directed by John Hamp featuring Muddy Waters, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Rev. Gary Davis and others who formed part of the touring American Folk Blues Festival. For filming, the company transformed the disused Wilbraham Road railway station into "Chorltonville", giving it the supposed appearance of a southern U.S.-style station. [1] [2] [3] [4]
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link)
This page needs Eric's less than gentle touch. To be quite honest, it was bloody awful and still has a long way to go. For instance, what is the purpose of a picture of a bus, surely a town without a bus would be more remarkable, similarly, I don't see the point of a tree shadow - it's horrible: the whole page looks as though its been attacked by the local Cub Scouts eager to display their entries for photography badges. The text needs a lot more work, and many of the short stubby sections need combining or extending. There's also an immense amount of dull trivia that either needs enlivening or pruning out. Eric really does need to be allowed a free hand here, existing editors should be grateful for his attentions. That's my view. Giano 08:23, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
I think this section has too much detail for a settlement article so I think some of it could be used in a St Clement's Church, Chorlton-cum-Hardy article. I could summarise here and copy the relevant detail to the new article and acknowledge its provenance. Thoughts? J3Mrs ( talk) 18:23, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Hear, hear. The Parish is clearly old enough to warrant a seperate article. 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:06, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I think we should all be grateful to anyone who takes the time to enhance the WP experience, or adds new. related articles. Granted, some editors, like User: Eric Corbett, lack social skills. But part of that same problems that so cripple him in the real world, make him so effective in the strange parallel universe that is WP. The article is undoubtedly more readable for his efforts. As time and medication allows, let's hope he moves onto the neighbouring areas, whose WP articles are badly in need of attention. 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:05, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to thank Eric and J3Mrs for the work they have been doing so far on this article. I agree that it looks better already. I think praise is needed to counter the baiting and taunting that has come from an anonymous user, though I imagine that the baiting properly counts as less than zero in its effect to you. However, I will be watching that. I am having problems with access here in China (the government here is going through a spasm of fear about access to the Internet, and m any sites are often inaccessible from time to time, inclusing wikipedia) but if there is any missing info that you would like some others to find for you and put here, then let us know here, and I am sure we can try to find it for you (though there aren't many Local History books for the UK available in China!) DDStretch (talk) 06:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC
Funny that a man in his sixties should be so sensitive. Still, if Wikipedia is your last refuge from reality.. The one we all feel sorry for is of course poor Ruth. 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:40, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
FreeBMD has a registration district named Chorlton (to 1924), is the registration district either Chorlton-cum-Hardy, or Chorlton-on-Medlock (noting they are only a couple of miles apart)? Best Regards
Since so many people seem to attach importance to the May 1964 concert, could I canvass opinion from more experienced editors ? Is it worth setting up a seperate article, or would WP's powers-that-be regard it as too trivial ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 15:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for telling me about the other article. Perhaps a small mention, then, in the Whalley Range article, since it seems to attract some attention ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 15:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
The station used as a venue was in Whalley Range, so deserves a link at least. As for your other edits, might I suggest the purchase of a map ? You've come close to being barred for vandalism before - be warned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
Wow. Didn't mean to start a war. Sorry, User:J3Mrs, I've mentioned before how much I respect your work [see 'Kudos' above]. It seems you got caught in the war between those other two idiots. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
According to this Hough was regarded as a separate manor and the manor house of Withington from the 13th century. It's not mentioned in the VCH article on CcH. J3Mrs ( talk) 20:30, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
If we use the old parochial boundary, then Stretford Stadium and Jackson's Boat are in, but Hough End Hall, Nell Lane estate and even Southern Cemetary are out. Experienced editor User: J3Mrs says postcodes are not a guide. As for wards, I've lived in the same house since 1968, in what everyone accepts is Chorlton [ with the postcode, phone no.], yet the ward boundaries have changed three times. Some help, please. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:18, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your prompt reply. How far back can we go, then? Ward boundaries seem to move for the local authority's convenience, but Chorlton's parochial boundaries would have changed with the building of St. Werburgh's, as the township expanded in almost all directions. And I seem to remember a Boundary Commission in the 1980's fixing the Manchester/Trafford anomalies. Longford Stadium, and an area next the TA Depot on Upper Chorlton Road shifted allegiances, as did The Jackson's Boat and Loreto College further afield. Obviously I won't change anything until I can cite the source. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 15:41, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
User: J3Mrs: current OS map shows Longford Stadium and whole of park is in Trafford. The open area immediately to the east of the park is MMU playing fields. Will adjust article accordingly. Thank you. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:25, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Apparently the Manchester/Trafford boundaries followed the Cornbrook and Black Brook, long since culverted, and clearly archaic in view of heavy development. And User:Eric Corbett, so much for local authorities spending fortunes on boundary markers. The discerning mind looks on all such stuff as background noise. Good Wikipedians always look to a source ! 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I apologise. In the specific case of Longford Park, then: The boundary passes along the eastern edge of the Park. The land to the east, while open, is a playing field belonging to MMU. The whole of the Park is therefore in Trafford. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 17:02, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I've been looking at the behaviour of various anonymous IP editors, and many of them whno are active on here are baiting and making inapprpriate comments (mixed in with some reasonable points) on this talk page. They have also made dubious edits from time to time on the main article page. I've already imposed a block on one IP address to prevent a repetition of quite unacceptable baiting of Eric. I suspect the person behind this has simply shifted to another IP address, but I am not sure of that. However, unless the tone of interaction improves, there is the option of partially-protecting both the article and this talk page to require people to actually log in under a registered i.d. Those who have been less than above board in their baiting personal comments should take this as a warning and modify their interactions as appropriate. DDStretch (talk) 05:52, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
As discussed
here, the following in transcribed from Youngs, Frederic A, Jr. (1991). Guide to the Local Administrative Units of England, Vol.2: Northern England. London:
Royal Historical Society. p. 157.
ISBN
0861931270.{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link). The original uses a lot of abbreviations (EP for ecclesiastical parish for instance) for space-saving purposes, but I have de-abbreviated them here.
CHORLTON CUM HARDY
Chapelry in Manchester Ancient Parish, separate Civil Parish 1866 [1], separate Ecclesiastical Parish 1723, [2], ecclesiastically refounded 1839 [3], ecclesiastically refounded 1854. [4]
Local Government: Salford Hundred, Chorlton Poor Law Union, Withington Urban Sanitary District, Urban District (1894-1904), Manchester County Borough (1904-10). Civil boundary altered 1883 [5] Abolished civilly 1910 entirely to South Manchester Civil Parish. [6]
Parliament: Southern Division of Lancashire (1832-67), South-Eastern Division of Lancashire (1867-85), Stretford Division of Lancashire (1885-1918)
Ecclesiastical: Manchester Rural Deanery (1723-66), Chorlton & Hulme Rural Deanery (1766-1872), Hulme Rural Deanery (1872-1933), Stretford Rural Deanery (from 1933). Ecclesiastical boundary altered in 1882 (helped to create Didsbury Christ Church, Barlow Moor Road Ecclesiastical Parish) [7], in 1898 (helped create Chorlton cum Hardy St Werburgh Ecclesiastical Parish) [8], in 1930 [9] and 1958 [10].
CHORLTON CUM HARDY ST WERBURGH
Ecclesiastical Parish created 1898 from Chorlton cum Hardy Ecclesiastical Parish, Fallowfield Ecclesiastical Parish [8]
Hulme Rural Deanery (1898-1933), Stretford Rural Deanery (1933 on). Boundary changes in 1902 [11], in 1905 [12] and in 1916 (helped create Withington St Crispin Ecclesiastical Parish) [13].
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talk)
17:12, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
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"The area now known as Chorlton-cum-Hardy comprises the ancient settlements of Chorlton to the north of the Mersey along with Hardy and Barlow to the south [1]" This is wrong: Chorlton and Hardy are either side of the Chorlton Brook; Barlow is a little further south than Hardy. The River Mersey separates the City of Manchester from part of Trafford MB.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 11:43, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
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I question the technical correctness of the unsourced statement that the cemetery is currently 'the largest municipal cemetery in England'. Arguably it lost that distinction when Woking Borough Council in 2014 took over Brookwood Cemetery(hitherto privately owned), and run it through a subsidiary body. Brookwood Cemetery is the largest cemetery in the UK. Cloptonson ( talk) 14:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Next year will be the 20th anniversary of Chorlton Arts Festival. It would be good to include its history within the Chorlton-cum-Hardy Wiki 82.29.212.77 ( talk) 16:38, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
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I Really think its needs to cover the many different parts of chorlton. Like Nell Lane, and Mersey Bank.
Its not all Chorlton-Ville, We dont all Juggle and drink on chortlon green.
I should hope not. We Chorlton Green drinkers know how to spell and punctuate.
Although the "Estates" are technically part of Chorlton, they are classed as being part of "Barlow Moor", if you are interested. Anyway, what's to talk about two residential, largely council, estates anyway? Unless you want to talk about the crime stats of course.
See, Now that attitude the problem, You "Chorlton Greeners" act all stuck up like that, then you wonder why we steal your cars?
The Estates are the heart of chorlton, and manchester, without us there would be no "chorlton green"
Maybe you should into mersey bank or nell lane estates and express your views there? I doubt you would.
If you do steal cars it's because you are criminals. "The Estates" are residential add-ons and play little part in the culture or development of Chorlton. That's not a criticism, just a fact. Chorlton Green is hundreds of years old....[no, it isn't, it's just over a hundred 86.12.129.12 ( talk) 10:52, 11 December 2011 (UTC)] can you say the same of the estates?
As for expressing my views in Nell lane or Merseybank? I wouldn't do that because a) there would be no point, and b) I don't want my head kicked in. This is common sense surely?
I don't live in Chorlton Green by the way, I drink there from time to time.
It is wrong to say that until the 1990's Chorlton was working class whatever that means. The development of the area was by those workers who could afford to live away from their work in Manchester. Many of these lived in rented properties in what is now referred to as Chorlton Green area and many followed with the building of the council and private estates between the wars. They kept the green pubs and local shops viable before the students and trendies took over the area.
The article for Val Stevens asserts no independent notability apart from representing the Chorlton ward. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abid Chohan. JASpencer 09:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I strongly oppose any political merging with these people. They are elected officials, and have no bearing on the area of Chorlton other than that.
It is sensible to mention their involvement, but to go further and attempt to absorb their own entries is inappropriate and I WILL oppose it. -- Hardylane 22:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I strongly oppose the merger of councillors with their wards - not only does this make it much harder to keep track of which councillors exist and that the information is correct, but it adds information that isn't really relevant to the Chorlton-cum-Hardy article. Val Stevens is notable - she is the Deputy Leader of Manchester City Council. Thegraham 09:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
These three councillors are only notable because they represent Chorlton-cum-Hardy on Manchester City Council. The individuals outwith their representation for Chorlton-cum-Hardy are not notable. I strongly support the merger. Rhyddfrydol 01:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the councillor entries should be removed altogether, since their existance in the Wikipedia only serve to publicise themselves. None of them have brought anything of merit or note to Chorlton. I continue to oppose having their name on the Chorlton page. Hardylane 19:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I would support the removal of all these councillor links: two years later and Angela Gallagher is in another party and another ward. Councillors are not in practice going to stay as representatives for the same wards indefinitely. The information about who is a councillor should just appear in the article for the council itself.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 17:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Harry Goodwin was mentioned in this article and then edited out as not notable. As his connection with Top of the Pops shows he does have the notability: however he should really have his own article first and then a link from Chorlton.---- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 12:38, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Mention of him has been removed: it could be added again with a reliable citation.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 09:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
The ISSN belonged to another work altogether (Manchester : BBDM Ltd, [2001]- a magazine). This one is both a volume in the L & C A S Transactions and an individual book apparently without an ISBN.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 11:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
“ | The name Chorlton-cum-Hardy may be derived from the Old English Ceorlatun Latin cum Old English Ard-Ea, meaning "the settlement of ceorls by trees near the water". | ” |
Doesn't X-cum-Y normally mean two parishes, X and Y, were merged long after the period of naming? — Tamfang ( talk) 05:18, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The name is a competely invented form that first emerged in the late C19th.( Pawelmichal ( talk) 09:07, 3 September 2011 (UTC))
The X-cum-Y names will not necessarily be parishes. Both Chorlton and Hardy are names from the Anglo-Saxon period long before the parish divisions which came in later centuries.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 10:19, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Good point about the citation. The manuscript JM Lloyd refers to may be a transcription or other error, as niether with- or cum- Hardy are mentioned anywhere else I have looked, prior to the period of gentrification. I knew JM Lloyd toward the end of his life [he was the sub-postmaster at Upper Chorlton Road, as was his father before him]. He contributed an enormous ammount to his community, and to historical studies of the area. He did, however, tend to draw conclusions and fill lacunae, and his maps are in no wise reliable. For instance: in his supposed 'Tithe Map' of 1845 he places the 'Pop Cottage' on the entrance to Dark Lane Farm off the Trafford Road [where Railway Terrace now stands]. Many accounts speak of the occupiers being called on to help travellers to Hulme cross the Black Brook when in spate. The Black Brook was culverted by Samuel Brooks, and follows the course of modern Upper Chorlton Road and the Trafford boundary. Therefore the cottage would have been several hundred yards north of his purported location. Pawelmichal ( talk) 13:18, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
Withington doesn't warrant a mention in the Domesday Book either. I wish I could remember which late mediaeval or early modern writer described the whole arc south from Manchester to the Mersey as "an reedy, marshy place".
I note your edit. You are of course correct that the area was not part of parochial Chorlton. However, prior to its' creation, the area of Whalley Range that was in the Manor of Withington, known as Jackson's Moss, would have been relevant to any overview of Chorlton, as it was a source of income and fuel, not merely a no-man's land. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.129.12 ( talk) 10:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Felix Folio Secundus makes a valuable point about Chorlton's class composition. Although the area was not mired in rural poverty, it was essentially a backwater until the construction of Wilbraham Road. The Egerton Estate, which controlled the reversion of agricultural leases, at first intended all development to be 'upper class', at both the Chorlton and Fallowfield ends. However,, like the developer of Whalley Range, they found the pressure to move into the highly-profitable upper-middle range irrestisable. This trend accelerated after the coming of the railway. We associate terraced housing with the working-class, but the terraces built here were for the new industrial managerial class. No artisanal building on any scale [apart from near the Green for the laundry, and on the site of the Priory was allowed]. It was only in the inter-war period, with the Egerton Estate relinquishing control to Manchester Corporation of large sections of land, that any social or working-class housing was built. Because this land tended to be on the outskirts of the district, it led to the us-and-them feeling personified in the exchanges at the beginning of this discussion page. The tremendous rise in the value of the land has meant that no significant additions to the lower end of the housing stock have been made since the Nell Lane estate was built in the early '80's. Even the bed-sit land element of local housing has gradually been phased out. In the circs, then, a certain ammount of class tension is perhaps, inevitable. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:19, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Mentioning Slow Train here is unnecessary as it is covered more fully in the article Chorlton Metrolink station.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 10:37, 14 April 2012 (UTC
Duly removed. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 11:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Apparently some editors lack the sense of humour to appreciate the comic potential in the area's name. Shame. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Good points, well made. You can't compare WP to Britannica ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
While depriving the writers of Round the Horne, it certainly has a ring to it, even if the seperate existence of Hardy is debatable. Not faux-historic and bucolic enough for the Victorian property developers though. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 10:28, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Another mention, this time as Hardy-cum-chorlton, in Beyond Our Ken from 1960. It seems that decade was the high-point [or nadir] for comic usage of the name. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 11:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Yet another mention, this time in Doctor in the House. I don't think it was the 'rude' bit of the name that script-writers found funny, just that it was used as a generic, comical Northern name. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 13:01, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
It's ironic that in giving the area a name they thought more bucolic and historic, the Victorians have triggered a century-and-a-half of public hilarity. i don't think it's so much the sexual innuendo, as the sheer incongruity that people find funny. 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:32, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Traditionally, placenames with "cum" (and there are many of them) are not hyphenated. I suppose that since it's commonly hyphenated these days, the name in this case has to be hyphenated in Wikipedia, but I assume (on the basis of evidence from old photos, documents etc.) that it is actually an error. Dadge ( talk) 00:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Nice edits, FFS. Wasn't the Lloyds briefly a fire station of some sort ? Also, somewhere in an MEN article there's mention that Harry H Corbett of Steptoe & Son started his career in am-dram at the Con Club, but a quick search wasn't enough to locate it. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 09:26, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Sadly, life's too short to read a luvvie's autobiography - but someone, somewhere, will do it, sometime. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
These two men were, more than any others, responsible for the development of modern Chorlton. Where would it be more appropriate and accessible to enlarge on this - in this article, or in their biographies ? 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 09:29, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Kudos to the excellent User:Mr Stephen and his anti-vandalism patrols.
The idea that Chorlton is full of wankers is merely unsourced opinion, until there's a valid study. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:14, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
( Personal attack removed) 194.70.181.1 ( talk) 09:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Good call, FFS. An anniversary by definition is one date only. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Given the dearth of materials, how can we be sure of anything prior to the foundation of the chapel ? And also, it's not on the way to anywhere, or at the confluence of any rivers, so is it possible that it was not a cohesive settlememt at all, but a series of isolated homesteads in a marsh ? 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:38, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
There does not seem to be a cohesive entity called Chorlton prior to the establishmentof the Chapel. Even then, the disparate parts, such as Martledge, continued to have an identity until the mass housing boom following the construction of Wilbraham Road and then the railway. Settlement in river valleys made use of the flooded areas for crop growth - risky, but worth it. The surrounding forests would have provide adequate game. The marshiness of the area may well have followed on from the deforestation by farmers. The dearth of early material does lead to speculative entries such as in this article, but the chapel would have been established in Chorlton to fulfil a need, so some population would have existed in a cohesive manner in the area. And don't worry about abuse from Fatuous Fistula. As his Cod Latin name implies, he's not the sharpest tool in the box. 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 10:04, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Beech Road was known earlier as Market Place, which indicates that the area was a focal point for the scattered and sparsely-populated settlements. It's also a clue as to why the chapel was sited there, on what otherwise was a cul-de-sac on the edge of the floodplain. Some confusion is caused by the centre of the village moving during the Victorian era, due to the construction of the railway and Wilbraham Road. By happy accident it allowed the preservation of the historical Chorlton, even if much of what we see today is a Victorian fake. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 11:58, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
It would be nice if a section about the local economy were included, such as large employers, employment types, etc. FreeFlow99 ( talk) 15:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Why don't you research it and add it then - that's the Wiki bit in the name 86.12.129.2 ( talk) 12:59, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
John Lloyd describes himself as "An Old Chorltonian" on the titlepage of the book being from the old village. When he died in 1991 the South Manchester Reporter reported his membership of many transport history societies and that his grandmother was a draper in Beech Road. An article in the Stretford & Urmston Journal (1978?) gives much more information about him: he was then 64 and his mother Edith was 92. The research for The Township of Chorlton-cum-Hardy took him 18 months and he says he decided to write it because of all the enquiries he got from children (he was a teacher at Chorlton Boys' Grammar School from 1947 until he resigned in 1973: comprehensive education was not to his liking). It is unlikely there is any connection with the two George Lloyds who owned land in Chorlton: the Lloyd's Hotel was an enterprise of James Platt and has a coat of arms of the Lloyd family on the front. George Lloyd resided at Stockton Hall in Yorkshire so Stockton was given to Stockton Road south of High Lane.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 19:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
There was no festival in 2012. Please update if a reliable citation can be found.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 21:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Re: "This article is written like a personal reflection or essay rather than an encyclopedic description of the subject. Please help improve it by rewriting it in an encyclopedic style." Only parts of the article fall below an encyclopedic standard; large parts of it have been written from a neutral point of view with adequate citations.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 14:00, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Couldn't agree more. The vigilance of editors like FFS or MrStephen ensure that very little unverified essay-like content passes. I would argue for the removal of the tag. 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:52, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
In Lloyd (1972), appendix VI 12 variant spellings are given for Chorlton which were listed in either Booker or Ellwood; 15 for Martledge; and 2 for Hardy. In 1773 by the will of Margaret Usherwood a charity came into existence to provide for the education of "six poor children" under certain conditions which included attendance at Chorlton Chapel. (Lloyd (1972), pp. 61-62 & appendix V. In 1745 the Scots army of Prince Charles Edward was encamped in the district in the winter of 1745/46: in Martledge there is an area formerly known as "Scots Hill" because of this (Lloyd (1972), pp. 62-63). In the Protestation of 1641 54 men of "Chollerton"; 14 of "Mansleache"; and 16 of "Hardie" are recorded as having taken the oath. (Lloyd (1972), appendix III.)---- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 04:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Re: inaugural Chorlton Coffee Festival in June. Should this not wait until it has actually happened and been noticed by the press?-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 04:15, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
WP editors don't have the highest of reputations, but the South Manchester articles are both factual and easy-to-read. And it's entirely down to the scolarship and passion of editors like FFS, Malleus, Mr Stephen and others. Don't be offended if you're not mentioned - the list would be too long. As a general reader interested in the topics, I really admire the way this, and articles on neighbouring areas have been composed. So if WP is ever to lift itself up to the level it aspires to, literate expert knowledge and enthusiasm, as displayed here, is definitely the way ahead. 193.63.210.2 ( talk) 13:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Add the much-missed pawelmichal, who was one of the first to start expanding these articles. 194.70.181.1 ( talk) 15:21, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Although it must be pointed out that the use of sarcastic or intemperate language during edits tends to put off occasional editors, some of whom at least have something to offer. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 13:37, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Fair point Malleus. The Internet as a whole, and not just WP, is the domain of the monomaniac, the obsessive, and the just plain dull. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:32, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Whatever happened to J3Mrs ? Her contribs always seemed worthwile. 194.70.181.1 ( talk) 14:20, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
On July 11, 1913, the Manchester Evening News described a woman as being from 'Chorlton-on-Mersey'. Can anyone shed any light as to whether this form was used for any time, or if it's just a mistranscription from shorthand [presumably for Chorlton-on-Medlock]. It seems an elegant name, esp. given the proximity of Ashton-on-Mersey, so I wonder why it never caught on [assuming the former is true]. Although this would have deprived many comedy writers [and schoolboys], of much hilarity. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:35, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Are there any traces of this mysterious earthwork any where in Chorlton ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Re: * Charles Peace, a notorious petty criminal who killed P. C. Nicholas Cock in 1876 (at the Old Trafford end of Manchester Road). On conviction he was hanged at Leeds.
Bowling Green Hotel is illustrated here; not the hotel which existed until 1908 but the present one. Taken from the footpath which crosses the churchyard looking southwards.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 22:43, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Can the editors of this page please have a look at what's happening? A user called Eric Corbett seems hell bent on rewriting this page to suit his own ends. I have reverted several times but no intention of maintaining an edit war with a VERY rude user. Felix, can you help? Hardylane ( talk) 00:05, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
One of the paragraphs recently deleted (as "trivia") referred to the 1964 TV blues programme recorded at Chorlton-cum-Hardy. The paragraph was not especially well-written, and one of the ref links was dead, but I suggest that a reworded paragraph should be reinstated in the article, such as:
Chorlton-cum-Hardy railway station was long assumed to be the venue for a notable Granada TV concert in 1964 by a number of visiting American blues musicians including Muddy Waters, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee. [1] However, recent research has identified Alexandra Park railway station, at the end of Athol Road, as the actual location. [2] [3]
- ^ Tidman, Gareth (9 November 2006). "When the Blues train rolled into Chorlton". The South Manchester Reporter. Retrieved 11 September 2013.
- ^ Chorlton Civic Society newsletter; February 2009, p. 6
- ^ Blues and Gospel train ticket, Wilbraham Road Railway Station, 7 May 1964. Manchester District Music Archive. Retrieved 2010-10-27.
Other articles perhaps need to be expanded to cover this more fully, but its significance is confirmed by sources such as this, this, this, and this. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 12:45, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
On 7 May 1964, Granada Television broadcast Blues and Gospel Train, a programme directed by John Hamp featuring Muddy Waters, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Rev. Gary Davis and others who formed part of the touring American Folk Blues Festival. For filming, the company transformed the disused Wilbraham Road railway station into "Chorltonville", giving it the supposed appearance of a southern U.S.-style station. [1] [2] [3] [4]
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link)
This page needs Eric's less than gentle touch. To be quite honest, it was bloody awful and still has a long way to go. For instance, what is the purpose of a picture of a bus, surely a town without a bus would be more remarkable, similarly, I don't see the point of a tree shadow - it's horrible: the whole page looks as though its been attacked by the local Cub Scouts eager to display their entries for photography badges. The text needs a lot more work, and many of the short stubby sections need combining or extending. There's also an immense amount of dull trivia that either needs enlivening or pruning out. Eric really does need to be allowed a free hand here, existing editors should be grateful for his attentions. That's my view. Giano 08:23, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
I think this section has too much detail for a settlement article so I think some of it could be used in a St Clement's Church, Chorlton-cum-Hardy article. I could summarise here and copy the relevant detail to the new article and acknowledge its provenance. Thoughts? J3Mrs ( talk) 18:23, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Hear, hear. The Parish is clearly old enough to warrant a seperate article. 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:06, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I think we should all be grateful to anyone who takes the time to enhance the WP experience, or adds new. related articles. Granted, some editors, like User: Eric Corbett, lack social skills. But part of that same problems that so cripple him in the real world, make him so effective in the strange parallel universe that is WP. The article is undoubtedly more readable for his efforts. As time and medication allows, let's hope he moves onto the neighbouring areas, whose WP articles are badly in need of attention. 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:05, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to thank Eric and J3Mrs for the work they have been doing so far on this article. I agree that it looks better already. I think praise is needed to counter the baiting and taunting that has come from an anonymous user, though I imagine that the baiting properly counts as less than zero in its effect to you. However, I will be watching that. I am having problems with access here in China (the government here is going through a spasm of fear about access to the Internet, and m any sites are often inaccessible from time to time, inclusing wikipedia) but if there is any missing info that you would like some others to find for you and put here, then let us know here, and I am sure we can try to find it for you (though there aren't many Local History books for the UK available in China!) DDStretch (talk) 06:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC
Funny that a man in his sixties should be so sensitive. Still, if Wikipedia is your last refuge from reality.. The one we all feel sorry for is of course poor Ruth. 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:40, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
FreeBMD has a registration district named Chorlton (to 1924), is the registration district either Chorlton-cum-Hardy, or Chorlton-on-Medlock (noting they are only a couple of miles apart)? Best Regards
Since so many people seem to attach importance to the May 1964 concert, could I canvass opinion from more experienced editors ? Is it worth setting up a seperate article, or would WP's powers-that-be regard it as too trivial ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 15:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for telling me about the other article. Perhaps a small mention, then, in the Whalley Range article, since it seems to attract some attention ? 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 15:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
The station used as a venue was in Whalley Range, so deserves a link at least. As for your other edits, might I suggest the purchase of a map ? You've come close to being barred for vandalism before - be warned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.235.65.1 ( talk) 15:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
Wow. Didn't mean to start a war. Sorry, User:J3Mrs, I've mentioned before how much I respect your work [see 'Kudos' above]. It seems you got caught in the war between those other two idiots. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
According to this Hough was regarded as a separate manor and the manor house of Withington from the 13th century. It's not mentioned in the VCH article on CcH. J3Mrs ( talk) 20:30, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
If we use the old parochial boundary, then Stretford Stadium and Jackson's Boat are in, but Hough End Hall, Nell Lane estate and even Southern Cemetary are out. Experienced editor User: J3Mrs says postcodes are not a guide. As for wards, I've lived in the same house since 1968, in what everyone accepts is Chorlton [ with the postcode, phone no.], yet the ward boundaries have changed three times. Some help, please. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 14:18, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your prompt reply. How far back can we go, then? Ward boundaries seem to move for the local authority's convenience, but Chorlton's parochial boundaries would have changed with the building of St. Werburgh's, as the township expanded in almost all directions. And I seem to remember a Boundary Commission in the 1980's fixing the Manchester/Trafford anomalies. Longford Stadium, and an area next the TA Depot on Upper Chorlton Road shifted allegiances, as did The Jackson's Boat and Loreto College further afield. Obviously I won't change anything until I can cite the source. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 15:41, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
User: J3Mrs: current OS map shows Longford Stadium and whole of park is in Trafford. The open area immediately to the east of the park is MMU playing fields. Will adjust article accordingly. Thank you. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:25, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Apparently the Manchester/Trafford boundaries followed the Cornbrook and Black Brook, long since culverted, and clearly archaic in view of heavy development. And User:Eric Corbett, so much for local authorities spending fortunes on boundary markers. The discerning mind looks on all such stuff as background noise. Good Wikipedians always look to a source ! 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 16:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I apologise. In the specific case of Longford Park, then: The boundary passes along the eastern edge of the Park. The land to the east, while open, is a playing field belonging to MMU. The whole of the Park is therefore in Trafford. 212.121.210.45 ( talk) 17:02, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I've been looking at the behaviour of various anonymous IP editors, and many of them whno are active on here are baiting and making inapprpriate comments (mixed in with some reasonable points) on this talk page. They have also made dubious edits from time to time on the main article page. I've already imposed a block on one IP address to prevent a repetition of quite unacceptable baiting of Eric. I suspect the person behind this has simply shifted to another IP address, but I am not sure of that. However, unless the tone of interaction improves, there is the option of partially-protecting both the article and this talk page to require people to actually log in under a registered i.d. Those who have been less than above board in their baiting personal comments should take this as a warning and modify their interactions as appropriate. DDStretch (talk) 05:52, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
As discussed
here, the following in transcribed from Youngs, Frederic A, Jr. (1991). Guide to the Local Administrative Units of England, Vol.2: Northern England. London:
Royal Historical Society. p. 157.
ISBN
0861931270.{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link). The original uses a lot of abbreviations (EP for ecclesiastical parish for instance) for space-saving purposes, but I have de-abbreviated them here.
CHORLTON CUM HARDY
Chapelry in Manchester Ancient Parish, separate Civil Parish 1866 [1], separate Ecclesiastical Parish 1723, [2], ecclesiastically refounded 1839 [3], ecclesiastically refounded 1854. [4]
Local Government: Salford Hundred, Chorlton Poor Law Union, Withington Urban Sanitary District, Urban District (1894-1904), Manchester County Borough (1904-10). Civil boundary altered 1883 [5] Abolished civilly 1910 entirely to South Manchester Civil Parish. [6]
Parliament: Southern Division of Lancashire (1832-67), South-Eastern Division of Lancashire (1867-85), Stretford Division of Lancashire (1885-1918)
Ecclesiastical: Manchester Rural Deanery (1723-66), Chorlton & Hulme Rural Deanery (1766-1872), Hulme Rural Deanery (1872-1933), Stretford Rural Deanery (from 1933). Ecclesiastical boundary altered in 1882 (helped to create Didsbury Christ Church, Barlow Moor Road Ecclesiastical Parish) [7], in 1898 (helped create Chorlton cum Hardy St Werburgh Ecclesiastical Parish) [8], in 1930 [9] and 1958 [10].
CHORLTON CUM HARDY ST WERBURGH
Ecclesiastical Parish created 1898 from Chorlton cum Hardy Ecclesiastical Parish, Fallowfield Ecclesiastical Parish [8]
Hulme Rural Deanery (1898-1933), Stretford Rural Deanery (1933 on). Boundary changes in 1902 [11], in 1905 [12] and in 1916 (helped create Withington St Crispin Ecclesiastical Parish) [13].
Lozleader (
talk)
17:12, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
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"The area now known as Chorlton-cum-Hardy comprises the ancient settlements of Chorlton to the north of the Mersey along with Hardy and Barlow to the south [1]" This is wrong: Chorlton and Hardy are either side of the Chorlton Brook; Barlow is a little further south than Hardy. The River Mersey separates the City of Manchester from part of Trafford MB.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 11:43, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
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I question the technical correctness of the unsourced statement that the cemetery is currently 'the largest municipal cemetery in England'. Arguably it lost that distinction when Woking Borough Council in 2014 took over Brookwood Cemetery(hitherto privately owned), and run it through a subsidiary body. Brookwood Cemetery is the largest cemetery in the UK. Cloptonson ( talk) 14:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Next year will be the 20th anniversary of Chorlton Arts Festival. It would be good to include its history within the Chorlton-cum-Hardy Wiki 82.29.212.77 ( talk) 16:38, 18 November 2021 (UTC)