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This article has the long pending unsourced material. This does not comply with the Disruptive_editing#Point-illustrating, WP:POINT, Wikipedia:Verifiability, WP:NOR, WP:DIS. As none support Unsourced. See if anyone could support it with Wikipedia:Policies or else mention the references or else the unsourced will be removed. Blueyarn ( talk) 06:18, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
It is considered as a living text, which has been widely edited, over many centuries, creating numerous variants. [1]
One of its interpolated versions from 1700CE contains the legend of the origin of the Brahmin identities like Chitpavan Brahmins and Saraswat Brahmins while deliberately slandering authentic Brahmin communities like Karhade Brahmins. [2]
The Brahmans of the day are charged, in the Prabhu chronicles, with having interpolated new verses into old Puranic and other books like the Sahyadri Khanda, for the purpose of lowering the status of the Prabhu caste. [3]
References
Certainly, different parts of Skanda Puran were added at different periods and different traditions, composed in increments over several centuries, were brought together in the present redactions. The text often betrays its chequered past, despite its contant attempts to integrate each new view. But this is its strength not weakness. The Skanda Purana is, in a real sense, a living purana, one of the few Puranas extant still extant in Sanskrit and certainly, one of the most popular.
Alexander Henn on Sahyadrikhanda:
Only a few archival sources are available today that give detailed evidence about the pre-Portuguese history of the Goan people and their village and religious culture. One resource is the Sahyadri Khanda of the Skanda Purana, or "Book of the Western Mountains," an apparently recently organized and somewhat deficient edition of disparate texts (Levitt 1977; Figueiredo 1963)-the earliest ones of which date to the fifth and the latest to the thirteenth centuries (Levitt 1973: 82, 87)-that tell the mythological story of the people of the Konkan and Goa (Cunha 1877; Gaitonde 1972). An especially relevant example is the story of the migration of the Saraswat branch of the Panca Gauda Brahmans of North India to Goa. The mythical hero of this story is Parashurama, the sixth avatar of Vishnu, who, enraged by a misdeed of King Kartavirya, perpetrates a massacre among the Kshatriya. The hero then begs the sea-god Varuna for land or, according to another version, claims the land of Konkan and Malabar himself from the ocean by blows of his magical axe, in order to bestow it to Brahmans in expiation for his cruel deed (Walker 1983: 2:190; Doshi and Shirodkar 1983: 54). More precisely, the Sahyadri Khanda accounts for sixty-six Gaud Saraswat Brahman families who Parashurama had brought from Trihotra, the modern Tirhut in western Bengal, to settle in Goan villages.....Facilitated by its enormous size and amorphous structure, the Sahyadri Khanda, however, has become the subject of contested interpretations. Modern scholars have questioned the "myth of the northern descent" of the Gaud Saraswat Brahman, arguing that their origins instead come from local priests who, at some point in history, gained Brahmanhood (Kosambi l962] 1992: 166). [1]
So, one thing is clear. Most modern scholars consider Sahyadrikhanda as a mythical text with little to no historic value. A similar Parshuram myth has been narrated in the khanda in order to justify the presence of Goud Saraswat Brahmins. Considering this, we should discuss this khanda in a very brief para without giving it undue weightage. Etymology is a very important thing; both versions ("pure of mind" and "pure from the pyre") should be mentioned. After discussing it, we may state that the authenticity of Sahyadrikhanda is questionable and modern scholars don't approve of it. We should remove M.M Deshpande source considering that he is a Maharashtrian Brahmin and his writings can't be treated as neutral. Also, we should use the term "shipwrecked sailors" rather than fishermen as used in some other reliable sources. [2] [3] LukeEmily, please go ahead and rephrase the para. Dympies ( talk) 18:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
We should remove M.M Deshpande source considering that he is a Maharashtrian Brahmin and his writings can't be treated as neutral., you are questioning a modern scholar and that is not an editors job. You are clearly POV pushing and doing WP:OR. Dympies your reasons for removing the source are invalid. The secondary source is reliable and high quality and that is what matters. see Baidya as an example. If you have sources with other opinions, you can add them if you want as I have already said. The Deshpande source is very high in quality, accuracy etc. and will not be removed. It is published in a scholarly journal and goes into tremendous depth of the scripture, unlike others that simply make passing remarks. It is important for etymology. LukeEmily ( talk) 22:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Our modern leaders may not feel strong enough to wield the powers of a Parashuram who raised by a single touch of his fingers a whole tribe of fishermen inhabiting the Konkan Coast into the Chitpavan Brahmans of today, as detailed in the Sahyadri Khanda of the Skanda Parana
She(Iravati karve) also mentions an alternative theory of the caste's creation viz Parashurama simply taught 60 fishermen families Brahmanical rituals(p 22), apparently reflecting their lowly status in the eyes of the Deshastha Brahmins.
There is another version according to which Parsuram initiated into Brahminhood a group of 60 families of fishermen. Disregarding the miraculous elements , the purport of this myth is clear : the ancestors of the Chitpavan Brāhmaṇas were foreigners washed ashore after a shipwreck , and never really accepted as proper Brahmans for a long...
And it came to pass in the fullness of time, as the Sahyadrikhand tells, that Parashurama called all Brahmans to a great festival in the new land which he had created between the mountains and the sea, But the twice-born hearkened not to his words ; whereat the God waxing wroth determined to create new Brahmans who would not turn a deaf ear to his counsel. Revolving this decision in his heart he walked down to the shore, and there in the seaward-gazing burningground he met a stranger-people, white-skinned, blueeyed, and fair to look upon, and asked them who they were and whence they came. "Fishermen (or hunters) are we," they answered, "and dwell upon the seashore, sixty families of us in all." And the God was pleased with them and raising them to the rank of Brahmans, divided them into fourteen "Gotras," and made them a solemn promise that should they ever call him to mind in any real emergency he would come to their assistance. So they dwelt for many a day, waxing by the favour of God both numerous and learned, until by they hearkened into evil counsel and called upon the God without just reason. And He, when he learned what they had done, was exceeding wroth and cursed them, dooming them to sorrow and to the sevice of other men so long as the sun and moon should endure. Thus the Chitpavans gained their Brahmanhood, but lost their right to superiority in that they flouted the promise of their God.
Thanks , LukeEmily ( talk) 01:48, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
LukeEmily, would you please address the issue raised by Jonathasammy here? Dympies ( talk) 14:36, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
References
The "pure from the pyre" meaning of Chitpavan is a reference to an origin myth claiming that the caste was created by the god Parashuram from bodies of shipwrecked sailors, purified on the pyre, restored to life, and taught Brahman rites.
Their myth is that the god Parshurama crated the caste from the bodies of ship-wrecked sailors, purified on the pyre , restored to life and taught Brahmin rites.
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I want to add what their distinct eye color and their populationCite error: A
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).</ref>
VisitedEveryStateinIndia (
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17:16, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
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I want to add “social mobilisation of chitpavans according to many authors after gaining military power”.
Madhwahari (
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The official name of community is chitpavan it is based on origin,probably usage of konkanastha may lead to confusion as the meaning is "Residence of konkan".Many communities are there in konkan.
Regards,
Fadnavis
Rajeshfadnavis (
talk)
14:40, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The Chitpavan Brahmins, also known as Konkanastha Brahmins, are a prominent Brahmin community in the Konkan region of Maharashtra, India. This region encompasses the coastal areas of Maharashtra, primarily around the towns and cities of Ratnagiri, Sindhudurg, and Raigad.
The origins of the Chitpavan Brahmins are somewhat shrouded in mystery, with various legends and theories explaining their ancestry. One popular legend suggests that they are descendants of the seven sages (Sapta Rishis) who were brought back to life by the sage Parashurama from shipwrecked bodies on the Konkan coast. This narrative positions them as having divine or semi-divine origins, adding to their historical prestige .
Historically, the Chitpavan Brahmins rose to prominence during the Maratha Empire in the 17th and 18th centuries. They played crucial roles as administrators, warriors, and advisors in the Maratha court, especially during the Peshwa rule. The Peshwas, who were the prime ministers of the Maratha Empire, were Chitpavan Brahmins, and this significantly bolstered the community's influence and status .
Chitpavan Brahmins are known for their distinct cultural practices, which include specific rituals, dietary customs, and a unique dialect of Marathi. Their cuisine often features seafood, reflecting the coastal geography of their homeland, although they also follow many traditional vegetarian practices typical of Brahmin communities .
The Chitpavan Brahmins have made substantial contributions to various fields, including education, politics, literature, and arts. During the British colonial period and after independence, many Chitpavan Brahmins emerged as prominent figures in the Indian freedom struggle, social reform movements, and intellectual circles. Notable personalities include Bal Gangadhar Tilak, an influential freedom fighter and social reformer, and Gopal Krishna Gokhale, a prominent leader and social reformer .
Today, the Chitpavan Brahmins are a well-educated and influential community within Maharashtra. They continue to play significant roles in the state's socio-political and cultural life. While they maintain their traditional customs and rituals, many members of the community have also embraced modern professions and lifestyles, contributing to a wide array of fields from politics and business to academia and technology .
Chitpavan Brahmins have historically been noted for their distinctive physical features, which set them apart from other Brahmin communities in the region. They are often described as having fair skin, light-colored eyes (blue or green), and sharp facial features. This appearance has fueled various theories and speculations about their origins, including the possibility of their migration from other regions or even outside India .
Several theories suggest that the Chitpavan Brahmins might have migrated from other regions, based on their distinct appearance and some historical accounts:
In contemporary times, Chitpavan Brahmins continue to uphold their traditional customs while also integrating into modern society. They have embraced education and professional careers, with many members excelling in fields like politics, business, medicine, and technology. They are also active participants in cultural preservation, ensuring that their unique heritage is passed down to future generations .
The community has produced numerous notable figures who have significantly impacted Indian society. Some of these include:
In summary, the Chitpavan Brahmins are a unique and influential community in the Konkan region, distinguished by their distinct physical features, rich cultural traditions, and significant contributions to various fields. Their history is a blend of myth, migration theories, and local adaptations, making them an integral part of Maharashtra's cultural tapestry.
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Chitpavan Brahmins article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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3Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to South Asian social groups, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. |
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This article has the long pending unsourced material. This does not comply with the Disruptive_editing#Point-illustrating, WP:POINT, Wikipedia:Verifiability, WP:NOR, WP:DIS. As none support Unsourced. See if anyone could support it with Wikipedia:Policies or else mention the references or else the unsourced will be removed. Blueyarn ( talk) 06:18, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
It is considered as a living text, which has been widely edited, over many centuries, creating numerous variants. [1]
One of its interpolated versions from 1700CE contains the legend of the origin of the Brahmin identities like Chitpavan Brahmins and Saraswat Brahmins while deliberately slandering authentic Brahmin communities like Karhade Brahmins. [2]
The Brahmans of the day are charged, in the Prabhu chronicles, with having interpolated new verses into old Puranic and other books like the Sahyadri Khanda, for the purpose of lowering the status of the Prabhu caste. [3]
References
Certainly, different parts of Skanda Puran were added at different periods and different traditions, composed in increments over several centuries, were brought together in the present redactions. The text often betrays its chequered past, despite its contant attempts to integrate each new view. But this is its strength not weakness. The Skanda Purana is, in a real sense, a living purana, one of the few Puranas extant still extant in Sanskrit and certainly, one of the most popular.
Alexander Henn on Sahyadrikhanda:
Only a few archival sources are available today that give detailed evidence about the pre-Portuguese history of the Goan people and their village and religious culture. One resource is the Sahyadri Khanda of the Skanda Purana, or "Book of the Western Mountains," an apparently recently organized and somewhat deficient edition of disparate texts (Levitt 1977; Figueiredo 1963)-the earliest ones of which date to the fifth and the latest to the thirteenth centuries (Levitt 1973: 82, 87)-that tell the mythological story of the people of the Konkan and Goa (Cunha 1877; Gaitonde 1972). An especially relevant example is the story of the migration of the Saraswat branch of the Panca Gauda Brahmans of North India to Goa. The mythical hero of this story is Parashurama, the sixth avatar of Vishnu, who, enraged by a misdeed of King Kartavirya, perpetrates a massacre among the Kshatriya. The hero then begs the sea-god Varuna for land or, according to another version, claims the land of Konkan and Malabar himself from the ocean by blows of his magical axe, in order to bestow it to Brahmans in expiation for his cruel deed (Walker 1983: 2:190; Doshi and Shirodkar 1983: 54). More precisely, the Sahyadri Khanda accounts for sixty-six Gaud Saraswat Brahman families who Parashurama had brought from Trihotra, the modern Tirhut in western Bengal, to settle in Goan villages.....Facilitated by its enormous size and amorphous structure, the Sahyadri Khanda, however, has become the subject of contested interpretations. Modern scholars have questioned the "myth of the northern descent" of the Gaud Saraswat Brahman, arguing that their origins instead come from local priests who, at some point in history, gained Brahmanhood (Kosambi l962] 1992: 166). [1]
So, one thing is clear. Most modern scholars consider Sahyadrikhanda as a mythical text with little to no historic value. A similar Parshuram myth has been narrated in the khanda in order to justify the presence of Goud Saraswat Brahmins. Considering this, we should discuss this khanda in a very brief para without giving it undue weightage. Etymology is a very important thing; both versions ("pure of mind" and "pure from the pyre") should be mentioned. After discussing it, we may state that the authenticity of Sahyadrikhanda is questionable and modern scholars don't approve of it. We should remove M.M Deshpande source considering that he is a Maharashtrian Brahmin and his writings can't be treated as neutral. Also, we should use the term "shipwrecked sailors" rather than fishermen as used in some other reliable sources. [2] [3] LukeEmily, please go ahead and rephrase the para. Dympies ( talk) 18:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
We should remove M.M Deshpande source considering that he is a Maharashtrian Brahmin and his writings can't be treated as neutral., you are questioning a modern scholar and that is not an editors job. You are clearly POV pushing and doing WP:OR. Dympies your reasons for removing the source are invalid. The secondary source is reliable and high quality and that is what matters. see Baidya as an example. If you have sources with other opinions, you can add them if you want as I have already said. The Deshpande source is very high in quality, accuracy etc. and will not be removed. It is published in a scholarly journal and goes into tremendous depth of the scripture, unlike others that simply make passing remarks. It is important for etymology. LukeEmily ( talk) 22:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Our modern leaders may not feel strong enough to wield the powers of a Parashuram who raised by a single touch of his fingers a whole tribe of fishermen inhabiting the Konkan Coast into the Chitpavan Brahmans of today, as detailed in the Sahyadri Khanda of the Skanda Parana
She(Iravati karve) also mentions an alternative theory of the caste's creation viz Parashurama simply taught 60 fishermen families Brahmanical rituals(p 22), apparently reflecting their lowly status in the eyes of the Deshastha Brahmins.
There is another version according to which Parsuram initiated into Brahminhood a group of 60 families of fishermen. Disregarding the miraculous elements , the purport of this myth is clear : the ancestors of the Chitpavan Brāhmaṇas were foreigners washed ashore after a shipwreck , and never really accepted as proper Brahmans for a long...
And it came to pass in the fullness of time, as the Sahyadrikhand tells, that Parashurama called all Brahmans to a great festival in the new land which he had created between the mountains and the sea, But the twice-born hearkened not to his words ; whereat the God waxing wroth determined to create new Brahmans who would not turn a deaf ear to his counsel. Revolving this decision in his heart he walked down to the shore, and there in the seaward-gazing burningground he met a stranger-people, white-skinned, blueeyed, and fair to look upon, and asked them who they were and whence they came. "Fishermen (or hunters) are we," they answered, "and dwell upon the seashore, sixty families of us in all." And the God was pleased with them and raising them to the rank of Brahmans, divided them into fourteen "Gotras," and made them a solemn promise that should they ever call him to mind in any real emergency he would come to their assistance. So they dwelt for many a day, waxing by the favour of God both numerous and learned, until by they hearkened into evil counsel and called upon the God without just reason. And He, when he learned what they had done, was exceeding wroth and cursed them, dooming them to sorrow and to the sevice of other men so long as the sun and moon should endure. Thus the Chitpavans gained their Brahmanhood, but lost their right to superiority in that they flouted the promise of their God.
Thanks , LukeEmily ( talk) 01:48, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
LukeEmily, would you please address the issue raised by Jonathasammy here? Dympies ( talk) 14:36, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
References
The "pure from the pyre" meaning of Chitpavan is a reference to an origin myth claiming that the caste was created by the god Parashuram from bodies of shipwrecked sailors, purified on the pyre, restored to life, and taught Brahman rites.
Their myth is that the god Parshurama crated the caste from the bodies of ship-wrecked sailors, purified on the pyre , restored to life and taught Brahmin rites.
![]() | This discussion has been disrupted by
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ban evasion, or
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I want to add what their distinct eye color and their populationCite error: A
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).</ref>
VisitedEveryStateinIndia (
talk)
17:16, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
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I want to add “social mobilisation of chitpavans according to many authors after gaining military power”.
Madhwahari (
talk)
04:35, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This discussion has been disrupted by
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ban evasion, or
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The official name of community is chitpavan it is based on origin,probably usage of konkanastha may lead to confusion as the meaning is "Residence of konkan".Many communities are there in konkan.
Regards,
Fadnavis
Rajeshfadnavis (
talk)
14:40, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The Chitpavan Brahmins, also known as Konkanastha Brahmins, are a prominent Brahmin community in the Konkan region of Maharashtra, India. This region encompasses the coastal areas of Maharashtra, primarily around the towns and cities of Ratnagiri, Sindhudurg, and Raigad.
The origins of the Chitpavan Brahmins are somewhat shrouded in mystery, with various legends and theories explaining their ancestry. One popular legend suggests that they are descendants of the seven sages (Sapta Rishis) who were brought back to life by the sage Parashurama from shipwrecked bodies on the Konkan coast. This narrative positions them as having divine or semi-divine origins, adding to their historical prestige .
Historically, the Chitpavan Brahmins rose to prominence during the Maratha Empire in the 17th and 18th centuries. They played crucial roles as administrators, warriors, and advisors in the Maratha court, especially during the Peshwa rule. The Peshwas, who were the prime ministers of the Maratha Empire, were Chitpavan Brahmins, and this significantly bolstered the community's influence and status .
Chitpavan Brahmins are known for their distinct cultural practices, which include specific rituals, dietary customs, and a unique dialect of Marathi. Their cuisine often features seafood, reflecting the coastal geography of their homeland, although they also follow many traditional vegetarian practices typical of Brahmin communities .
The Chitpavan Brahmins have made substantial contributions to various fields, including education, politics, literature, and arts. During the British colonial period and after independence, many Chitpavan Brahmins emerged as prominent figures in the Indian freedom struggle, social reform movements, and intellectual circles. Notable personalities include Bal Gangadhar Tilak, an influential freedom fighter and social reformer, and Gopal Krishna Gokhale, a prominent leader and social reformer .
Today, the Chitpavan Brahmins are a well-educated and influential community within Maharashtra. They continue to play significant roles in the state's socio-political and cultural life. While they maintain their traditional customs and rituals, many members of the community have also embraced modern professions and lifestyles, contributing to a wide array of fields from politics and business to academia and technology .
Chitpavan Brahmins have historically been noted for their distinctive physical features, which set them apart from other Brahmin communities in the region. They are often described as having fair skin, light-colored eyes (blue or green), and sharp facial features. This appearance has fueled various theories and speculations about their origins, including the possibility of their migration from other regions or even outside India .
Several theories suggest that the Chitpavan Brahmins might have migrated from other regions, based on their distinct appearance and some historical accounts:
In contemporary times, Chitpavan Brahmins continue to uphold their traditional customs while also integrating into modern society. They have embraced education and professional careers, with many members excelling in fields like politics, business, medicine, and technology. They are also active participants in cultural preservation, ensuring that their unique heritage is passed down to future generations .
The community has produced numerous notable figures who have significantly impacted Indian society. Some of these include:
In summary, the Chitpavan Brahmins are a unique and influential community in the Konkan region, distinguished by their distinct physical features, rich cultural traditions, and significant contributions to various fields. Their history is a blend of myth, migration theories, and local adaptations, making them an integral part of Maharashtra's cultural tapestry.