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A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
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Did you know?" column on
January 16, 2009. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, the captain of
US Airways Flight 1549, also runs an aviation safety consultant company and has worked as an accident investigator for the
USAF,
NTSB, and
FAA? |
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I think the {{ prod}} and redirection are both premature. I reverted the redirection.
It is not clear to me whether Sullenberger merits coverage. But, a few minutes web searching shows he is not just an airline pilot.
Geo Swan (
talk)
10:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
if both engines out, he is a good pilot as are many others, the United flight in Sioux city was more airmanship, no one knows their names! but Tom hanks plays him so he is now famous? Juror1 ( talk) 06:43, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
The subject might indeed be "an accident investigator, and scholar in the fields of High Reliability systems and Risk Management", but he is not notable in those areas. I couldn't find any ghits not related to the crash. Seems to fit WP:ONEEVENT very well. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 12:35, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I couldn't find any ghits not related to the crash. Seems to fit WP:ONEEVENT very well.
"HRO 2007 gathers an outstanding group of American and European experts, practitioners and researchers. The purpose is to share and compare experiences, perspectives and research findings in a truly international context."
People are going to want to know enough about this guy that he should have his own article. Wikipedia rules are flexible, and WP:ONEEVENT can be broken for cases like this. Be bold! Grundle2600 ( talk) 17:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please complete the AfD? Can't create the discussion page. Simply go to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chesley Sullenberger and insert
{{afd2 | pg=Chesley Sullenberger | cat=B | text=[[WP:BLP1E]]. Should be a redirect to [[US Airways Flight 1549]], but not an article on its own.}}
Thanks, 78.34.145.54 ( talk) 14:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
As to the reasoning, it should go without question that WP:BLP1E means this article cannot exist. Cover the event, not the person. As an aside, shame on those who are unable/unwilling to get a simple notability rule such as BLP1E. Just do never create an article about a living person notable only for one single event. Just do not. 78.34.145.54 ( talk) 14:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
A little surprised to see this up for merger/fast after creation. What he did and his background make him extraordinary. Were Wikipedia a paper encyclopedia, we would have to consider culling and merging to the notable event. However, a merge here is not appropriate and unnecessary-- we've plenty of room. I seem to remember somewhere that the goal is to cover a subject as completely as possible. That we can do with two separate articles. BLP1E says a separate article is unlikely to be warranted. This event, the coverage, and the role the subject played, as well as his prior status, raises him to a degree of notability where a separate article becomes essential. Dloh cierekim 15:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Many of the above comments indicate unfamiliarity with general notability and biography policies. We do not create an article to reward someone doing something well,(he ditched without the usual consequence of killing all on board) or withhold an article to punish some other pilot or ship captain who tried to do the same thing but was less successful. An article is not a "Hero Medal" like a ticker tape parade or the "keys to the city." We have articles about people and things which are encyclopedic, not those who are merely newsworthy. The proper place immediately after some major newsworthy incident is the main article about the event. If he is the author or subject of book or movies or if he receives substantial coverage beyond the present news cycle, and the section about him becomes so long as to overwhelm the article on the incident, then by all means have a separate article. For now, the only significant information about him is his conduct during the brief flight and the rescue afterwards. His pre-crashlanding career would never have justified an article, any more than tens of thousands of other pilots with similar resumes. Edison ( talk) 17:49, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
What's the big deal with keeping this article? When you spectacularly crash your airplane, with plentiful witnesses, such as Sullenberger, or Leul Abate, it tends to make you notable. Hiberniantears ( talk) 19:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
EWhy don't people use the Curriculum Vitae Chesley Sullenberger has written himself? It is on the web page of his company, Safety Reliability Methods Inc. It seems stupid not to do that. It is a word file under the section 'Profile' on his webpage... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.138.240.16 ( talk) 18:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
(sorry for my not perfect english, I am a frenchman) Bravo for all "wikipediers", for so fast having created this page... No doubt for me... Was absoluty no reason for waiting. The great stuff Chesley Sullenberger was able to do, is not an ordinary stuff, indeed. Just because he was able doing that, he have his place now in the great history of aviation, and as wikipedia is also an encyclopedia about that, it is evident, no debating about that seems necessary he must having an article just for him (and concerning this more subjective criteria, I am considerating him as a "hero" too, of course). From this day, sure, lot of people around the World could be happy finding serious articles of references about this man. I was in this situation of searching... Here in France, at first, I was listening in the radio "Europe1", he was 67... and later at mid-day TV information program of "France2" he was 57... It is a debate here since months about the plane pilots age limitation. So was certainly an important element for considerating a pilot could be a good pilot at 67, if Mister Sullenberger was... So I was trying to have the right age on the net... And discovering a part of articles on online american newspapers saying he is 57, another part he is 67 !... The consensus of wikipediers saying here is he born in 1951 or 52... nearly 57, so... That is so, probably the right answer for my question. I wanted reacting here, because this Wikipedia article is also an illustration of how Wikipedia can be really usefull... It can be like a lighthouse when the Internaut is lost in the darkness of the ocean of mass-medias!... ;-) Y.R. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.249.14.66 ( talk) 16:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Just wanted to say thanks again for all the dedicated folks who put this together, it would be interesting to see some expansion on his Vietnam years in the F4 encase there were any notable experiences from that time in his life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.8.207.119 ( talk) 07:22, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
So what's his ancestry? Given his surname, he is either of German or German-Jewish ancestry.
I'm glad I was not the only one with the foresight to realize that this man will very soon be a household name in America, and not just a footnote in a news story about a plane crash. In the same way that Jeremy Glick of United 93 fame has his own article, Chesley Sullenberger certainly warrants one as well. Jrsightes ( talk) 19:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Once this dies down, this thing will be merged. There are obviously some passionate points of view, so let's not get into a "merger battle" here. Let these people, who suddenly have great affection for a man they don't know and likely will forget in a couple of weeks, have their wikipedia page. It doesn't meet the standard for its own article. This guy will have ZERO notoriety once this is done with, particularly considering there were no fatalities. This thing is headed for the main article like you would not believe.
Pilots of downed planes, traditionally, are included in the articles ABOUT the crash. We went through this nonsense with the 9/11 flight articles and it's just important to let the whoopla of this crash die down.
So, leave it now, merge later. I assure you, no one will notice. -- Prop21 ( talk) 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
My arguments against merger, and those of others, as set forth above in #merger-- absolutely not, will be as valid then as now. The subject is clearly notable, and clearly we need as separate article. Also, the "not a reward" argument lacks merit. An article is not a reward. However, the fact that he has earned awards and has garnered acclaim and the manner by which he did so is significant enough that that he is notable. Baileypalblue makes excellent points. Cheers, and happy editing. Dloh cierekim 16:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
In response to the notion that Sullenberger should be treated the same on Wikipedia as the pilots of planes that crashed and killed everyone aboard: Regardless of whether the difference between the two outcomes was a matter of luck or skill, Sullenberger will be remembered as a hero for a long time because everybody survived while the other pilots are forgotten because nobody did. That's just the way the world works. Luck matters- it always has and it always will. If it was Wikipedia's job to reconstruct history without the influence of Luck, then we should get to work on Al Gore's US Presidency page. ( talk) 11:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Probably not good enough source, but this indicates a date of birth of January 23, 1951. -- Elliskev 21:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I protected the page from moves, given the tendentious nature of the comments on the talk page. If consensus decides that the page should be merged into the actual article on the crash, that's fine, but I see a fair amount of single issue editors on this page, and that's enough for me to add move protection for the mean time. Hiberniantears ( talk) 05:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
The article should be moved to Chesley Sullenberger III, shouldn't it? Chergles ( talk) 20:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm just wondering if it should be apart from the commercial pilot section, since this is probably responsible for almost all of the views of this page. The crash is sort of pushed into that section, when it's certainly notable enough to warrant its own part. JMO, but I think the article would be more 'workable' that way. Sky83 ( talk) 15:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
To all those who want avoid a deletion, I recommend improving upon various points in the article such as his education, his experience as a pilot, and of course US Airways Flight 1549 in a little more detail. In which this would be of some value rather than his notability as a "hero". Or else, in time, this article should be merged.-- 68.73.93.168 ( talk) 18:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I am working to obtain verifiable detail on his military assignments to ensure the facts are correct. The USAFA Association of Graduates publishes a directory annually, only available to members, which lists each graduate's assignments. The information is self-reported and reverified annually, but since it is not available to the public, other sources would have to be used to corroborate. He graduated from the US Air Force Academy on June 6, 1973. According to the directory, he attended USAF Undergraduate Pilot training at Columbus AFB, Mississippi from 1974-1975. He attended Replacement Training Unit (RTU) in the F-4D at Luke AFB, Arizona in 1975, in the 426 Tactical Fighter Training Squadron. He was assigned to RAF Lakenheath, United Kingdom, in the 493 Tactical Fighter Squadron, in 1976, and completed USAF Squadron Officer's School through the Correspondence program the same year. In 1977, he was assigned to the 428th Tactical Fighter Squadron at Nellis AFB, Nevada. This was a three-unit move, called "Ready Switch," in which F-111A aircraft at Nellis AFB moved to Mt Home AFB, ID, the F-111F aircraft at Mt Home moved to RAF Lakenheath, and the F-4D aircraft at RAF Lakenheath moved to Nellis AFB. In 1979 he completed his Master's of Public Administration at the University of Northern Colorado, and in 1980 resigned from the Air Force to join US Airways. In his own CV, he states he had "...experience in Europe, Pacific and at Nellis AFB." I can't verify where he obtained his Pacific experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike Nishimuta ( talk • contribs) 15:27, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
"While in the Air Force, he was a member of the official aircraft accident investigation board." The citation for this is the UK Telegraph reference 15. There is no such thing as "The official aircraft accident investigation board." An accident investigation board is appointed for every major aircraft accident. On his Safety Reliability Methods website, he states he has participated in several USAF and National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)accident investigations. Recommend the sentence be changed to read "While in the Air Force, he was a member of several official aircraft accident investigation boards." Anyone agree? Mike Nishimuta ( talk) 18:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone said:
Just do never create an article about a living person notable only for one single event. Just do not.
So should we delete the article about Hinkley too? He only did ONE thing in his life, and he only did it for 8 seconds. He didn;t even kill anyone.
So what's the difference between Sullenberger and Hinkley here? Are incompetent assassins given the "notability" honor even though they did essentially nothing at all? Or is heroism just not as "notable"? TechnoFaye Kane 11:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Don't filter out event protagonists that warrant national attention. I wonder if John Wilkes Booth would be notable if he had not assassinated Lincoln. If you wait for history to filter out the non-notables, we miss the opportunity to capture information that may not be available years later. -- jwalling ( talk) 02:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Have you heard that Sullenberger is going to take a Job in the Obama Administration? It seems that is gonna be an important job or at least for public view —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adwikistrator8 ( talk • contribs) 16:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Second is not a prank, but a discussion, (by the way, is this is not the correct place, answer to this in my page, but please don not erase it!, it looks like vandalism, a user ANONYMOUS erased and I had to set it back.) I have red this in an spanish blog (serious blog), I came to the wiki and not found any source , so came to the disscussion , found nothing too, so I ask. ¿what is the prank about it? Sorry if for you looks like a prank, but at least don't use my non contrubtions in the english wiki with this nick as an argument, doing that is a mix of argumentum ad hominem,plus post hoc, ergo propter hoc and non sequitur, not and real argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adwikistrator8 ( talk • contribs) 23:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Here is a man who was just doing his job. Doing what he is expected and paid to do. That alone does not make a hero. NorthernThunder ( talk) 16:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
This is totally WP:BLP1E if you ask me. JBsupreme ( talk) 06:30, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
In the article, it says "A few weeks following the crash of Flight 1549, it was revealed that Sullenberger lost a library book (on professional ethics) in the plane. When he called the library to notify them of the lost book, they waived the usual fees." I agree this is interesting, and gave me a bit of a chuckle, but I think this info is a bit too trivial for inclusion into this article. Does anyone else agree? 86.153.98.74 ( talk) 10:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Regardless of what some sources may say, Sullenberger Did Not fly F-4s for the Air Force starting in 1973. That statement is not even reasonable. He graduated from the USAFA in May or June of 1973. Next, a graduated cadet intending to become a pilot would spend the rest of 1973 and all of 1974 (at the least) either preparing for flight school or attending undergraduate flight school (where the trainer jets T-37 and T-38 were used), and not flying combat airplanes. As a matter-of-fact, other sources state that Lt. Sullenberger attended undergraduate flight school at Columbus Air Force Base, Mississippi in 1974 though part of 1975 (it is a course that take at least 12 months to complete). So, the earliest that he could possibly possibly engaged in flying the F-4 Phantom II combat fighter was 1975. Just quoting a source that makes obviously erroneous statements does not cut it, and it is nothing to be proud of. Some common sense needs to be used, also. 98.67.171.45 ( talk) 17:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
"He holds an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate for single and multi-engine airplanes, and a Commercial Pilot Certificate rating in gliders, as well as an expired flight instructor certificate for airplanes (single, multi-engine, and instrument), and gliders." This sentence seems screwed up to me, but I am not knowledgeable in the area. Geo8rge ( talk) 19:02, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I've commented out the following unsourced sentence: "Passenger Steve O'Brien, when sitting in one of the life rafts with Sullenberger, observed him to be so calm and seemingly unaffected by the crash that he mistook Sullenberger for one of his rescuers." The audio at [2] conveys something to this effect, but it doesn't precisely confirm the sentence. Can anyone locate a better source? Cosmic Latte ( talk) 00:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
It is stated that he was "a first chair flute". I'm not sure exactly what this means. Is the musical instrument meant by " flute? If so, what is a first chair? Mjroots ( talk) 06:03, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Is it notable that before the accident his salary was cut 40% and his pension (from USAIR) was terminated? [3] Geo8rge ( talk) 18:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
The guy is certinaly not notable for being the CEO of Safety Reliability Methods. It should say something like "The Captain of 1549" (roughly). If there will be no objection I'll do this soon. Guy0307 ( talk) 07:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
The crash section states that his hometown is Danville, CA, then later states it as Denison, TX. I assume Danville is his current place of residence, while Denison is where he grew up, but some distinction should be made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.19.94.49 ( talk) 19:25, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Sullenberger is interviewed on todays' BBC Radio 4 'Today' programme. It is available on the BBC iPlayer for a week after transmission, if anyone is interested. The interview started about an hour and three quarters into the programme. The 'listen again' button on the programme page [4] will go live after the programme finishes in just over an hour from now. 86.150.103.168 ( talk) 07:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
This is a bit of a drive-by (fly-by?) comment as I just happened over here, but a couple of things struck me as I read the intro and quickly skimmed the rest of the article:
I'd be willing to try adding in some material along these lines, but I'd be interested to hear feedback from regular editors of this page first. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 05:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I think we should change the infobox format to person because the aviator one does not have a parameter for "birth date".. the closest one is "lived" but that makes no sense because he is still living. Anyone have opinions? Tinton5 ( talk) 01:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
yoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoסע — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.84.138.89 ( talk) 14:23, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
A data visualization company has produced a wealth of materials for visualizing many aspects of Flight 1549, including a quite impressive CGI video of the entire flight. Should this be added to the External Links? [5] -- Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:22, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I have moved the following unsourced material here until it can be properly sourced per WP:NOR/ WP:V. It was recently added without any source to clarify or provide details on the, the nature of the dispute, or for the quotes attributed to Sullenberger's. In addition, although I corrected most of these elements, for future reference, please do not capitalize words that are not proper nouns, like "mid", "federal court case", "integrity" or "jury". In addition, there is no need for "The jury disagreed with Sullenberger to be italicized, and colloquialisms of unclear meaning like "no dog in this fight" should be removed in favor of more clearly paraphrased wording:
In mid-May 2008, Sullenberger acted as the first witness in a federal court case involving his labor union, the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) v. The Former America West Pilots. The case was heard in the Arizona District Court by Neil Wake. Although Sullenberger testified that he had "no dog in this fight" he continued that in his opinion, final and binding arbitrations should be ignored if the majority party finds the ruling unsatisfactory. During his testimony, Sullenberger equated the refusal to comply with a duly authorized, and mutually agreed upon arbitrator's ruling to possessing a form of personal "integrity". The jury disagreed with Sullenberger. The jury found that a final and binding arbitration ruling, was in fact, "final and binding". The USAPA was found guilty of violating its legal duty to fairly represent all US Airways pilots. The jury returned its guilty verdict in under 90 minutes. USAPA is appealing the decision and this case will be heard on December 8, 2009 in the Ninth Circuit of Appeals in San Francisco.
Nightscream ( talk) 15:53, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
We definitely need more of those men, to show us youngsters how to handle the flying ladies (A320 and so on... .. ..). Best Regards -- MaurizioBochum ( talk) 01:42, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The recent publication of "Highest Duty," an autobiographical work by Chesley B. Sullenberger, moots a considerable portion of the above contentious discussion. The hottest issue at present ought to be the "me, too" book called "Fly by Wire". Written by William Langewiesche," the author believes this work is "fair" because it vacillates between openly trashing Capt. Sullenberger and damning him with faint praise. A comparably "fair" guess is that Mr. Langewiesche will not get a decent night's sleep until a photograph on his Wiki demonstrates that he is (hubba hubba) beefcake compared to Sully. It must be awful to write "me, too" books out of a sense of inadequacy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.60.165 ( talk) 23:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
The field sounds reasonable, but could somebody please provide a little more academic rigor, such as a reference or a wiki link?-- Jarhed ( talk) 02:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Captain SULLENBERGER has received a great deal of praise (including this page), and rightfully so, but we seem to have forgotten that his First Officer
Jeffrey B. Skiles, was also on that plane, doing his part. ¿Where’s his page? It re-directs to the page on the crash. Not even a paragraph to himself.
I submit that this should be addressed. It’s an injustice that he’s been ignored outright, especially here, a site that pretends to be a record of events and facts. If SULLEN BERGER “deserves” his own page, so does anyone else making a significant contribution to “his” success. I’m not advocating that every passenger on every ferryboat that responded should be mentioned- Even the captains of the ferryboats and other emergency responders should only be referred to as groups (I’m a Coastie myself, and I submit that the Coasties who responded at most should be referred “personnel form Coast Guard Station X”). But SKILES’ contributions had a measurable effect on the event.
174.25.42.71 (
talk)
21:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)A REDDSON
Sullenberger is an invited speaker at the World Economic Forum currently taking place in Davos, Switzerland. Link Could someone add this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.221.86.168 ( talk) 19:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
An Easter-egg wikilink to 15 minutes of fame in the second sentence? Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.197.208.203 ( talk) 22:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
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Under the commercial pilot section it says that he has 27,000 hours of flying experience. I'd like to point out that the reference used for that says that he has 19,000 and also in his autobiography, Highest Duty (which is fairly recent), on page 40 Sully says that he has 19,700 hours.
98.157.96.2 ( talk) 03:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Chesley Sullenberger has been hired by CBS News as an aviation correspondent. Link 130.49.235.177 ( talk) 21:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
(Repeated, from Flight article, since this is mentioned in both places.) A small point, and not to decry Sully's amazing heroism one whit. I'm just curious how far back in the plane he was able to walk, before he exited the aircraft. According to flight attendant Doreen Welsh, who was seated in the rear at impact, the rear cabin of the plane began filling with water immediately. She said: "by the time I left there, it was [up to] here [indicating her neck-level]." ( Video, fast-forward to 05:13.) She sent passengers scrambling over the seat-tops, to make sure they got out OK. Yet the WP article states: "Sullenberger walked the length of the passenger cabin twice to make sure everyone had evacuated..." The plane was at a very low angle -- maybe 5 degrees?, just eyeballing some photos, one can crudely guess the maximum water-line. If the icy-cold water was several feet deep in the rear, even if Doreen meant 'neck-level' while she was seated or she exaggerated some, then much of the cabin would have been flooded with at least some water. The full length of the A320-214 plane is 123 feet (35.6m), someone who remembers geometry can do the math. So: how far back did Sully walk, and how deep in the water did he wade? Up to his knees? His thighs? His waist? I don't recall seeing pics of him as he boarded a rescue boat or shortly after. I'm guessing he was able to get maybe half-way, just past the wings? Benefac ( talk) 13:24, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
File:Chesley_Sullenberger_honored_crop.jpg is slightly out of focus. Jidanni ( talk) 02:05, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
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In the section about the ditching in the river, the operation was referred to as a crash. It was an Emergency landing. I chose 'landing' over 'ditching' for ease of reading. Tapered ( talk) 19:21, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
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There were personal injuries. This entry should be updated with the correct information found on the linked flight entry or the sentence indicating no injuries should be removed. Mkenigson ( talk) 16:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
'he encounter incredulity' should read 'he encounters incredulity' 66.81.105.177 ( talk) 10:20, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
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A library book,Just Culture: Balancing Safety and Accountability was in Sullenberger's luggage left behind in the cockpit. When Sullenberger notified the library that the water-damaged book had been recovered, it made a point of waiving any late fees. Bloomberg presented Sullenberger with a new copy along with the Key to the City of New York. 216.243.38.26 ( talk) 07:48, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
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Dilbert comics also refers to Chesley Sullenberger: http://dilbert.com/strip/2010-02-10 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.46.66.164 ( talk) 22:31, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
The first section of the lead is a damn mess and efforts to revise it have been reverted, so here we are.
is a retired American airline captain celebrated for- "celebrated" should be changed to "known" to maintain a neutral POV
on the Hudson River off Manhattan- redundant since there's a link, "Manhattan" should be removed
after the plane was disabled by striking a flock of Canada geese immediately after takeoff- run-on and too much detail
all 155 people aboard survived- that number isn't even included in the article (in context of survivors)
173.73.10.191 ( talk) 23:35, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.173.73.10.191 ( talk) 01:16, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Suggestion: how about rewording the sentence to something like
That's also NPOV future-proof (even should opinion on the man or his action somehow change in the future, the fact he received that award won't); it avoids the clumsy appending of "all 155 people aboard survived" (presuming the lead-worthy information is that no one died, not necessarily the exact number of people on the plane); replaces the run-on clause with more relevant information (that is reflected, with sources, in the article body); same with the award: info already in the article at the Post-flight accolades section including a source; and clarifies the admiration/renown given the subject for his actions. The award itself is prestigious and not often awarded ( scroll down for the entire list of folks who have received it) so I would not consider it UNDUE to mention in the lead either (the sole other concern I could think of), though YMMV I suppose. AddWitty NameHere 07:01, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
EEng: "The 155 is indeed in the article now, because you just added it"
No, it was in the article before, and I even specified which section mentioned it. Didn't you read this when I said it?
And I am aware that not everything in the Lead has to be in the article's body. But the Lead summarizes the articles most salient points, or "basic facts", and the date and survivor count are certainly salient, basic facts related to Flight 1549.
"Known" is the word commonly used in regards to Wikipedia's notability policies, which govern the opening description of article subjects. What cited sources use is irrelevant to this. No one is arguing that the word "celebrate" discredits anyone or is non-neutral, but is not the word most in line with how the Lead is written, with WP:TONE, with WP:WEASEL, etc.
Being awarded the Master's Medal is not what he is known for. I've worked on his article for years, and don't recall that award's name offhand. Nightscream ( talk) 15:24, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I believe that the fact that he saved all people on board is certainly a basic fact for the Lead. It's the reason why he's "celebrated". Nobody would've called it the Miracle on the Hudson, or lauded the guy if he ended up just saving himself, or himself and a plane filled with syphilitic donkeys. This is why the fact and the survivor count is important.
I don't have a problem with the Master's Medal being mentioned in the Lead per se. I have a problem with it being mentioned in the opening sentence, to the exclusion of and before mentioning what he did that makes him notable. That's what the Lead, and specifically, the opening sentence, are supposed to do. A general mention that he was showered with accolades in the second or third paragraph of the Lead is one thing, but specifying the exact award, and in the opening sentence, rather than the description of what he did, is not reasonable, IMHO.
I'm okay with removing "successful water landing" and since there is a more streamlined way to convey the same stuff, though I think we need to specify the survivor count, for the aforementioned reasons. I propose this:
Nightscream ( talk)
Something must be wrong -- everyone's agreeing. I'll review the thread to see if there's some way I can throw a monkey wrench into it. In the meantime, a small point: while there's controversy, there's an increasing awareness that for LPs (with some exceptions) we shouldn't give full birthdates, just birth years, for privacy reasons. I don't want to get into a big argument, but can we leave it out here? E Eng 00:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
"all" strains a bit[10], perhaps they can elaborate on that. 173.73.10.191 ( talk) 01:21, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
Gosh, at this rate we might be able to move on to the article's second sentence by the first snowfall. How about we press into service the underappreciated semicolon:
Skiles helped in essential ways, but I think no one would dispute that S landed the plane. E Eng 01:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
I recommend we update the feature image on the page in the Infobox to a more recent photo of Captain Sullenberger. This is a good option – — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apvediting ( talk • contribs) 18:51, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
Is the infobox description of him as a Republican still accurate? He has been a vocal Trump opponent, and in recent interviews says he voted for Democrats.
Skrelk ( talk) 22:49, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. Strong consensus with only one opposing. However, opposition is based on ngrams. But ngrams are limited to book references which may be more formal than reliable news sources. In any case, no other participants were swayed by the NGRAM data. ( non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 00:33, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Chesley Sullenberger → Sully Sullenberger – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Most sources call him Sully. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ( talk) 05:54, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Nightscream: reverted my removal of diplomat from the first sentence. [12] Sullenberger is not notable as a diplomat and it doesn't appear as though the position he holds is generally considered notable. His ambassadorship is just small element of his significance and doesn't need mention in the first sentence because Sully is a pilot before he is anything else. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ( talk) 07:46, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to remove the sentence "When he was 12 years old, his IQ was deemed high enough that he was allowed to join Mensa International"
, cited to Fox News, per the guidance on
handling trivia. As the guidance on trivia is subjective and largely up to editors' discretion, I'd like to offer my rationale and seek feedback here first, to ensure there's consensus for doing this.
I think the unspecified high IQ test from his childhood is an unencyclopedic factoid that adds no valuable information to article, and produces a hagiography-like tone. While Sullenberger is a hero, we wouldn't normally include such information in an biographical article and it seems inconsistent to do so here. I can understand why tabloid media such as Fox would dig up such a factoid -- readers want to idolise an incredible act of heroism -- but Wikipedia is not a newspaper and our policies say we should be selective in the information we choose to include. I'd point to the guidance such as summary style, verifiability does not guarantee inclusion, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and the 10-year test as examples that support my argument that a childhood IQ test is not noteworthy. Keen to hear others' thoughts. Jr8825 • Talk 19:26, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Sully Sullenberger is seen signing a hat owned by Quagmire in Season 19, Episode 12. — 2607:FEA8:1420:A700:C5E8:6B4C:48FC:A17A ( talk) 02:25, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
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I think the {{ prod}} and redirection are both premature. I reverted the redirection.
It is not clear to me whether Sullenberger merits coverage. But, a few minutes web searching shows he is not just an airline pilot.
Geo Swan (
talk)
10:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
if both engines out, he is a good pilot as are many others, the United flight in Sioux city was more airmanship, no one knows their names! but Tom hanks plays him so he is now famous? Juror1 ( talk) 06:43, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
The subject might indeed be "an accident investigator, and scholar in the fields of High Reliability systems and Risk Management", but he is not notable in those areas. I couldn't find any ghits not related to the crash. Seems to fit WP:ONEEVENT very well. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 12:35, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I couldn't find any ghits not related to the crash. Seems to fit WP:ONEEVENT very well.
"HRO 2007 gathers an outstanding group of American and European experts, practitioners and researchers. The purpose is to share and compare experiences, perspectives and research findings in a truly international context."
People are going to want to know enough about this guy that he should have his own article. Wikipedia rules are flexible, and WP:ONEEVENT can be broken for cases like this. Be bold! Grundle2600 ( talk) 17:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Could someone please complete the AfD? Can't create the discussion page. Simply go to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chesley Sullenberger and insert
{{afd2 | pg=Chesley Sullenberger | cat=B | text=[[WP:BLP1E]]. Should be a redirect to [[US Airways Flight 1549]], but not an article on its own.}}
Thanks, 78.34.145.54 ( talk) 14:04, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
As to the reasoning, it should go without question that WP:BLP1E means this article cannot exist. Cover the event, not the person. As an aside, shame on those who are unable/unwilling to get a simple notability rule such as BLP1E. Just do never create an article about a living person notable only for one single event. Just do not. 78.34.145.54 ( talk) 14:07, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
A little surprised to see this up for merger/fast after creation. What he did and his background make him extraordinary. Were Wikipedia a paper encyclopedia, we would have to consider culling and merging to the notable event. However, a merge here is not appropriate and unnecessary-- we've plenty of room. I seem to remember somewhere that the goal is to cover a subject as completely as possible. That we can do with two separate articles. BLP1E says a separate article is unlikely to be warranted. This event, the coverage, and the role the subject played, as well as his prior status, raises him to a degree of notability where a separate article becomes essential. Dloh cierekim 15:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Many of the above comments indicate unfamiliarity with general notability and biography policies. We do not create an article to reward someone doing something well,(he ditched without the usual consequence of killing all on board) or withhold an article to punish some other pilot or ship captain who tried to do the same thing but was less successful. An article is not a "Hero Medal" like a ticker tape parade or the "keys to the city." We have articles about people and things which are encyclopedic, not those who are merely newsworthy. The proper place immediately after some major newsworthy incident is the main article about the event. If he is the author or subject of book or movies or if he receives substantial coverage beyond the present news cycle, and the section about him becomes so long as to overwhelm the article on the incident, then by all means have a separate article. For now, the only significant information about him is his conduct during the brief flight and the rescue afterwards. His pre-crashlanding career would never have justified an article, any more than tens of thousands of other pilots with similar resumes. Edison ( talk) 17:49, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
What's the big deal with keeping this article? When you spectacularly crash your airplane, with plentiful witnesses, such as Sullenberger, or Leul Abate, it tends to make you notable. Hiberniantears ( talk) 19:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
EWhy don't people use the Curriculum Vitae Chesley Sullenberger has written himself? It is on the web page of his company, Safety Reliability Methods Inc. It seems stupid not to do that. It is a word file under the section 'Profile' on his webpage... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.138.240.16 ( talk) 18:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
(sorry for my not perfect english, I am a frenchman) Bravo for all "wikipediers", for so fast having created this page... No doubt for me... Was absoluty no reason for waiting. The great stuff Chesley Sullenberger was able to do, is not an ordinary stuff, indeed. Just because he was able doing that, he have his place now in the great history of aviation, and as wikipedia is also an encyclopedia about that, it is evident, no debating about that seems necessary he must having an article just for him (and concerning this more subjective criteria, I am considerating him as a "hero" too, of course). From this day, sure, lot of people around the World could be happy finding serious articles of references about this man. I was in this situation of searching... Here in France, at first, I was listening in the radio "Europe1", he was 67... and later at mid-day TV information program of "France2" he was 57... It is a debate here since months about the plane pilots age limitation. So was certainly an important element for considerating a pilot could be a good pilot at 67, if Mister Sullenberger was... So I was trying to have the right age on the net... And discovering a part of articles on online american newspapers saying he is 57, another part he is 67 !... The consensus of wikipediers saying here is he born in 1951 or 52... nearly 57, so... That is so, probably the right answer for my question. I wanted reacting here, because this Wikipedia article is also an illustration of how Wikipedia can be really usefull... It can be like a lighthouse when the Internaut is lost in the darkness of the ocean of mass-medias!... ;-) Y.R. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.249.14.66 ( talk) 16:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Just wanted to say thanks again for all the dedicated folks who put this together, it would be interesting to see some expansion on his Vietnam years in the F4 encase there were any notable experiences from that time in his life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.8.207.119 ( talk) 07:22, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
So what's his ancestry? Given his surname, he is either of German or German-Jewish ancestry.
I'm glad I was not the only one with the foresight to realize that this man will very soon be a household name in America, and not just a footnote in a news story about a plane crash. In the same way that Jeremy Glick of United 93 fame has his own article, Chesley Sullenberger certainly warrants one as well. Jrsightes ( talk) 19:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Once this dies down, this thing will be merged. There are obviously some passionate points of view, so let's not get into a "merger battle" here. Let these people, who suddenly have great affection for a man they don't know and likely will forget in a couple of weeks, have their wikipedia page. It doesn't meet the standard for its own article. This guy will have ZERO notoriety once this is done with, particularly considering there were no fatalities. This thing is headed for the main article like you would not believe.
Pilots of downed planes, traditionally, are included in the articles ABOUT the crash. We went through this nonsense with the 9/11 flight articles and it's just important to let the whoopla of this crash die down.
So, leave it now, merge later. I assure you, no one will notice. -- Prop21 ( talk) 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
My arguments against merger, and those of others, as set forth above in #merger-- absolutely not, will be as valid then as now. The subject is clearly notable, and clearly we need as separate article. Also, the "not a reward" argument lacks merit. An article is not a reward. However, the fact that he has earned awards and has garnered acclaim and the manner by which he did so is significant enough that that he is notable. Baileypalblue makes excellent points. Cheers, and happy editing. Dloh cierekim 16:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
In response to the notion that Sullenberger should be treated the same on Wikipedia as the pilots of planes that crashed and killed everyone aboard: Regardless of whether the difference between the two outcomes was a matter of luck or skill, Sullenberger will be remembered as a hero for a long time because everybody survived while the other pilots are forgotten because nobody did. That's just the way the world works. Luck matters- it always has and it always will. If it was Wikipedia's job to reconstruct history without the influence of Luck, then we should get to work on Al Gore's US Presidency page. ( talk) 11:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Probably not good enough source, but this indicates a date of birth of January 23, 1951. -- Elliskev 21:29, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I protected the page from moves, given the tendentious nature of the comments on the talk page. If consensus decides that the page should be merged into the actual article on the crash, that's fine, but I see a fair amount of single issue editors on this page, and that's enough for me to add move protection for the mean time. Hiberniantears ( talk) 05:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
The article should be moved to Chesley Sullenberger III, shouldn't it? Chergles ( talk) 20:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm just wondering if it should be apart from the commercial pilot section, since this is probably responsible for almost all of the views of this page. The crash is sort of pushed into that section, when it's certainly notable enough to warrant its own part. JMO, but I think the article would be more 'workable' that way. Sky83 ( talk) 15:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
To all those who want avoid a deletion, I recommend improving upon various points in the article such as his education, his experience as a pilot, and of course US Airways Flight 1549 in a little more detail. In which this would be of some value rather than his notability as a "hero". Or else, in time, this article should be merged.-- 68.73.93.168 ( talk) 18:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I am working to obtain verifiable detail on his military assignments to ensure the facts are correct. The USAFA Association of Graduates publishes a directory annually, only available to members, which lists each graduate's assignments. The information is self-reported and reverified annually, but since it is not available to the public, other sources would have to be used to corroborate. He graduated from the US Air Force Academy on June 6, 1973. According to the directory, he attended USAF Undergraduate Pilot training at Columbus AFB, Mississippi from 1974-1975. He attended Replacement Training Unit (RTU) in the F-4D at Luke AFB, Arizona in 1975, in the 426 Tactical Fighter Training Squadron. He was assigned to RAF Lakenheath, United Kingdom, in the 493 Tactical Fighter Squadron, in 1976, and completed USAF Squadron Officer's School through the Correspondence program the same year. In 1977, he was assigned to the 428th Tactical Fighter Squadron at Nellis AFB, Nevada. This was a three-unit move, called "Ready Switch," in which F-111A aircraft at Nellis AFB moved to Mt Home AFB, ID, the F-111F aircraft at Mt Home moved to RAF Lakenheath, and the F-4D aircraft at RAF Lakenheath moved to Nellis AFB. In 1979 he completed his Master's of Public Administration at the University of Northern Colorado, and in 1980 resigned from the Air Force to join US Airways. In his own CV, he states he had "...experience in Europe, Pacific and at Nellis AFB." I can't verify where he obtained his Pacific experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike Nishimuta ( talk • contribs) 15:27, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
"While in the Air Force, he was a member of the official aircraft accident investigation board." The citation for this is the UK Telegraph reference 15. There is no such thing as "The official aircraft accident investigation board." An accident investigation board is appointed for every major aircraft accident. On his Safety Reliability Methods website, he states he has participated in several USAF and National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)accident investigations. Recommend the sentence be changed to read "While in the Air Force, he was a member of several official aircraft accident investigation boards." Anyone agree? Mike Nishimuta ( talk) 18:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone said:
Just do never create an article about a living person notable only for one single event. Just do not.
So should we delete the article about Hinkley too? He only did ONE thing in his life, and he only did it for 8 seconds. He didn;t even kill anyone.
So what's the difference between Sullenberger and Hinkley here? Are incompetent assassins given the "notability" honor even though they did essentially nothing at all? Or is heroism just not as "notable"? TechnoFaye Kane 11:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Don't filter out event protagonists that warrant national attention. I wonder if John Wilkes Booth would be notable if he had not assassinated Lincoln. If you wait for history to filter out the non-notables, we miss the opportunity to capture information that may not be available years later. -- jwalling ( talk) 02:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Have you heard that Sullenberger is going to take a Job in the Obama Administration? It seems that is gonna be an important job or at least for public view —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adwikistrator8 ( talk • contribs) 16:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Second is not a prank, but a discussion, (by the way, is this is not the correct place, answer to this in my page, but please don not erase it!, it looks like vandalism, a user ANONYMOUS erased and I had to set it back.) I have red this in an spanish blog (serious blog), I came to the wiki and not found any source , so came to the disscussion , found nothing too, so I ask. ¿what is the prank about it? Sorry if for you looks like a prank, but at least don't use my non contrubtions in the english wiki with this nick as an argument, doing that is a mix of argumentum ad hominem,plus post hoc, ergo propter hoc and non sequitur, not and real argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adwikistrator8 ( talk • contribs) 23:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Here is a man who was just doing his job. Doing what he is expected and paid to do. That alone does not make a hero. NorthernThunder ( talk) 16:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
This is totally WP:BLP1E if you ask me. JBsupreme ( talk) 06:30, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
In the article, it says "A few weeks following the crash of Flight 1549, it was revealed that Sullenberger lost a library book (on professional ethics) in the plane. When he called the library to notify them of the lost book, they waived the usual fees." I agree this is interesting, and gave me a bit of a chuckle, but I think this info is a bit too trivial for inclusion into this article. Does anyone else agree? 86.153.98.74 ( talk) 10:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Regardless of what some sources may say, Sullenberger Did Not fly F-4s for the Air Force starting in 1973. That statement is not even reasonable. He graduated from the USAFA in May or June of 1973. Next, a graduated cadet intending to become a pilot would spend the rest of 1973 and all of 1974 (at the least) either preparing for flight school or attending undergraduate flight school (where the trainer jets T-37 and T-38 were used), and not flying combat airplanes. As a matter-of-fact, other sources state that Lt. Sullenberger attended undergraduate flight school at Columbus Air Force Base, Mississippi in 1974 though part of 1975 (it is a course that take at least 12 months to complete). So, the earliest that he could possibly possibly engaged in flying the F-4 Phantom II combat fighter was 1975. Just quoting a source that makes obviously erroneous statements does not cut it, and it is nothing to be proud of. Some common sense needs to be used, also. 98.67.171.45 ( talk) 17:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
"He holds an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate for single and multi-engine airplanes, and a Commercial Pilot Certificate rating in gliders, as well as an expired flight instructor certificate for airplanes (single, multi-engine, and instrument), and gliders." This sentence seems screwed up to me, but I am not knowledgeable in the area. Geo8rge ( talk) 19:02, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I've commented out the following unsourced sentence: "Passenger Steve O'Brien, when sitting in one of the life rafts with Sullenberger, observed him to be so calm and seemingly unaffected by the crash that he mistook Sullenberger for one of his rescuers." The audio at [2] conveys something to this effect, but it doesn't precisely confirm the sentence. Can anyone locate a better source? Cosmic Latte ( talk) 00:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
It is stated that he was "a first chair flute". I'm not sure exactly what this means. Is the musical instrument meant by " flute? If so, what is a first chair? Mjroots ( talk) 06:03, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Is it notable that before the accident his salary was cut 40% and his pension (from USAIR) was terminated? [3] Geo8rge ( talk) 18:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
The guy is certinaly not notable for being the CEO of Safety Reliability Methods. It should say something like "The Captain of 1549" (roughly). If there will be no objection I'll do this soon. Guy0307 ( talk) 07:31, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
The crash section states that his hometown is Danville, CA, then later states it as Denison, TX. I assume Danville is his current place of residence, while Denison is where he grew up, but some distinction should be made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.19.94.49 ( talk) 19:25, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Sullenberger is interviewed on todays' BBC Radio 4 'Today' programme. It is available on the BBC iPlayer for a week after transmission, if anyone is interested. The interview started about an hour and three quarters into the programme. The 'listen again' button on the programme page [4] will go live after the programme finishes in just over an hour from now. 86.150.103.168 ( talk) 07:50, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
This is a bit of a drive-by (fly-by?) comment as I just happened over here, but a couple of things struck me as I read the intro and quickly skimmed the rest of the article:
I'd be willing to try adding in some material along these lines, but I'd be interested to hear feedback from regular editors of this page first. -- Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 05:51, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I think we should change the infobox format to person because the aviator one does not have a parameter for "birth date".. the closest one is "lived" but that makes no sense because he is still living. Anyone have opinions? Tinton5 ( talk) 01:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
yoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoסע — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.84.138.89 ( talk) 14:23, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
A data visualization company has produced a wealth of materials for visualizing many aspects of Flight 1549, including a quite impressive CGI video of the entire flight. Should this be added to the External Links? [5] -- Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:22, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
I have moved the following unsourced material here until it can be properly sourced per WP:NOR/ WP:V. It was recently added without any source to clarify or provide details on the, the nature of the dispute, or for the quotes attributed to Sullenberger's. In addition, although I corrected most of these elements, for future reference, please do not capitalize words that are not proper nouns, like "mid", "federal court case", "integrity" or "jury". In addition, there is no need for "The jury disagreed with Sullenberger to be italicized, and colloquialisms of unclear meaning like "no dog in this fight" should be removed in favor of more clearly paraphrased wording:
In mid-May 2008, Sullenberger acted as the first witness in a federal court case involving his labor union, the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) v. The Former America West Pilots. The case was heard in the Arizona District Court by Neil Wake. Although Sullenberger testified that he had "no dog in this fight" he continued that in his opinion, final and binding arbitrations should be ignored if the majority party finds the ruling unsatisfactory. During his testimony, Sullenberger equated the refusal to comply with a duly authorized, and mutually agreed upon arbitrator's ruling to possessing a form of personal "integrity". The jury disagreed with Sullenberger. The jury found that a final and binding arbitration ruling, was in fact, "final and binding". The USAPA was found guilty of violating its legal duty to fairly represent all US Airways pilots. The jury returned its guilty verdict in under 90 minutes. USAPA is appealing the decision and this case will be heard on December 8, 2009 in the Ninth Circuit of Appeals in San Francisco.
Nightscream ( talk) 15:53, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
We definitely need more of those men, to show us youngsters how to handle the flying ladies (A320 and so on... .. ..). Best Regards -- MaurizioBochum ( talk) 01:42, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The recent publication of "Highest Duty," an autobiographical work by Chesley B. Sullenberger, moots a considerable portion of the above contentious discussion. The hottest issue at present ought to be the "me, too" book called "Fly by Wire". Written by William Langewiesche," the author believes this work is "fair" because it vacillates between openly trashing Capt. Sullenberger and damning him with faint praise. A comparably "fair" guess is that Mr. Langewiesche will not get a decent night's sleep until a photograph on his Wiki demonstrates that he is (hubba hubba) beefcake compared to Sully. It must be awful to write "me, too" books out of a sense of inadequacy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.60.165 ( talk) 23:53, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
The field sounds reasonable, but could somebody please provide a little more academic rigor, such as a reference or a wiki link?-- Jarhed ( talk) 02:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Captain SULLENBERGER has received a great deal of praise (including this page), and rightfully so, but we seem to have forgotten that his First Officer
Jeffrey B. Skiles, was also on that plane, doing his part. ¿Where’s his page? It re-directs to the page on the crash. Not even a paragraph to himself.
I submit that this should be addressed. It’s an injustice that he’s been ignored outright, especially here, a site that pretends to be a record of events and facts. If SULLEN BERGER “deserves” his own page, so does anyone else making a significant contribution to “his” success. I’m not advocating that every passenger on every ferryboat that responded should be mentioned- Even the captains of the ferryboats and other emergency responders should only be referred to as groups (I’m a Coastie myself, and I submit that the Coasties who responded at most should be referred “personnel form Coast Guard Station X”). But SKILES’ contributions had a measurable effect on the event.
174.25.42.71 (
talk)
21:57, 18 December 2010 (UTC)A REDDSON
Sullenberger is an invited speaker at the World Economic Forum currently taking place in Davos, Switzerland. Link Could someone add this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.221.86.168 ( talk) 19:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
An Easter-egg wikilink to 15 minutes of fame in the second sentence? Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.197.208.203 ( talk) 22:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
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Under the commercial pilot section it says that he has 27,000 hours of flying experience. I'd like to point out that the reference used for that says that he has 19,000 and also in his autobiography, Highest Duty (which is fairly recent), on page 40 Sully says that he has 19,700 hours.
98.157.96.2 ( talk) 03:14, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Chesley Sullenberger has been hired by CBS News as an aviation correspondent. Link 130.49.235.177 ( talk) 21:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
(Repeated, from Flight article, since this is mentioned in both places.) A small point, and not to decry Sully's amazing heroism one whit. I'm just curious how far back in the plane he was able to walk, before he exited the aircraft. According to flight attendant Doreen Welsh, who was seated in the rear at impact, the rear cabin of the plane began filling with water immediately. She said: "by the time I left there, it was [up to] here [indicating her neck-level]." ( Video, fast-forward to 05:13.) She sent passengers scrambling over the seat-tops, to make sure they got out OK. Yet the WP article states: "Sullenberger walked the length of the passenger cabin twice to make sure everyone had evacuated..." The plane was at a very low angle -- maybe 5 degrees?, just eyeballing some photos, one can crudely guess the maximum water-line. If the icy-cold water was several feet deep in the rear, even if Doreen meant 'neck-level' while she was seated or she exaggerated some, then much of the cabin would have been flooded with at least some water. The full length of the A320-214 plane is 123 feet (35.6m), someone who remembers geometry can do the math. So: how far back did Sully walk, and how deep in the water did he wade? Up to his knees? His thighs? His waist? I don't recall seeing pics of him as he boarded a rescue boat or shortly after. I'm guessing he was able to get maybe half-way, just past the wings? Benefac ( talk) 13:24, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
File:Chesley_Sullenberger_honored_crop.jpg is slightly out of focus. Jidanni ( talk) 02:05, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
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In the section about the ditching in the river, the operation was referred to as a crash. It was an Emergency landing. I chose 'landing' over 'ditching' for ease of reading. Tapered ( talk) 19:21, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
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There were personal injuries. This entry should be updated with the correct information found on the linked flight entry or the sentence indicating no injuries should be removed. Mkenigson ( talk) 16:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
'he encounter incredulity' should read 'he encounters incredulity' 66.81.105.177 ( talk) 10:20, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
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A library book,Just Culture: Balancing Safety and Accountability was in Sullenberger's luggage left behind in the cockpit. When Sullenberger notified the library that the water-damaged book had been recovered, it made a point of waiving any late fees. Bloomberg presented Sullenberger with a new copy along with the Key to the City of New York. 216.243.38.26 ( talk) 07:48, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
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Dilbert comics also refers to Chesley Sullenberger: http://dilbert.com/strip/2010-02-10 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.46.66.164 ( talk) 22:31, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
The first section of the lead is a damn mess and efforts to revise it have been reverted, so here we are.
is a retired American airline captain celebrated for- "celebrated" should be changed to "known" to maintain a neutral POV
on the Hudson River off Manhattan- redundant since there's a link, "Manhattan" should be removed
after the plane was disabled by striking a flock of Canada geese immediately after takeoff- run-on and too much detail
all 155 people aboard survived- that number isn't even included in the article (in context of survivors)
173.73.10.191 ( talk) 23:35, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.173.73.10.191 ( talk) 01:16, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Suggestion: how about rewording the sentence to something like
That's also NPOV future-proof (even should opinion on the man or his action somehow change in the future, the fact he received that award won't); it avoids the clumsy appending of "all 155 people aboard survived" (presuming the lead-worthy information is that no one died, not necessarily the exact number of people on the plane); replaces the run-on clause with more relevant information (that is reflected, with sources, in the article body); same with the award: info already in the article at the Post-flight accolades section including a source; and clarifies the admiration/renown given the subject for his actions. The award itself is prestigious and not often awarded ( scroll down for the entire list of folks who have received it) so I would not consider it UNDUE to mention in the lead either (the sole other concern I could think of), though YMMV I suppose. AddWitty NameHere 07:01, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
EEng: "The 155 is indeed in the article now, because you just added it"
No, it was in the article before, and I even specified which section mentioned it. Didn't you read this when I said it?
And I am aware that not everything in the Lead has to be in the article's body. But the Lead summarizes the articles most salient points, or "basic facts", and the date and survivor count are certainly salient, basic facts related to Flight 1549.
"Known" is the word commonly used in regards to Wikipedia's notability policies, which govern the opening description of article subjects. What cited sources use is irrelevant to this. No one is arguing that the word "celebrate" discredits anyone or is non-neutral, but is not the word most in line with how the Lead is written, with WP:TONE, with WP:WEASEL, etc.
Being awarded the Master's Medal is not what he is known for. I've worked on his article for years, and don't recall that award's name offhand. Nightscream ( talk) 15:24, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I believe that the fact that he saved all people on board is certainly a basic fact for the Lead. It's the reason why he's "celebrated". Nobody would've called it the Miracle on the Hudson, or lauded the guy if he ended up just saving himself, or himself and a plane filled with syphilitic donkeys. This is why the fact and the survivor count is important.
I don't have a problem with the Master's Medal being mentioned in the Lead per se. I have a problem with it being mentioned in the opening sentence, to the exclusion of and before mentioning what he did that makes him notable. That's what the Lead, and specifically, the opening sentence, are supposed to do. A general mention that he was showered with accolades in the second or third paragraph of the Lead is one thing, but specifying the exact award, and in the opening sentence, rather than the description of what he did, is not reasonable, IMHO.
I'm okay with removing "successful water landing" and since there is a more streamlined way to convey the same stuff, though I think we need to specify the survivor count, for the aforementioned reasons. I propose this:
Nightscream ( talk)
Something must be wrong -- everyone's agreeing. I'll review the thread to see if there's some way I can throw a monkey wrench into it. In the meantime, a small point: while there's controversy, there's an increasing awareness that for LPs (with some exceptions) we shouldn't give full birthdates, just birth years, for privacy reasons. I don't want to get into a big argument, but can we leave it out here? E Eng 00:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
"all" strains a bit[10], perhaps they can elaborate on that. 173.73.10.191 ( talk) 01:21, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
Gosh, at this rate we might be able to move on to the article's second sentence by the first snowfall. How about we press into service the underappreciated semicolon:
Skiles helped in essential ways, but I think no one would dispute that S landed the plane. E Eng 01:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
I recommend we update the feature image on the page in the Infobox to a more recent photo of Captain Sullenberger. This is a good option – — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apvediting ( talk • contribs) 18:51, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
Is the infobox description of him as a Republican still accurate? He has been a vocal Trump opponent, and in recent interviews says he voted for Democrats.
Skrelk ( talk) 22:49, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. Strong consensus with only one opposing. However, opposition is based on ngrams. But ngrams are limited to book references which may be more formal than reliable news sources. In any case, no other participants were swayed by the NGRAM data. ( non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 00:33, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Chesley Sullenberger → Sully Sullenberger – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Most sources call him Sully. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ( talk) 05:54, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Nightscream: reverted my removal of diplomat from the first sentence. [12] Sullenberger is not notable as a diplomat and it doesn't appear as though the position he holds is generally considered notable. His ambassadorship is just small element of his significance and doesn't need mention in the first sentence because Sully is a pilot before he is anything else. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ( talk) 07:46, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to remove the sentence "When he was 12 years old, his IQ was deemed high enough that he was allowed to join Mensa International"
, cited to Fox News, per the guidance on
handling trivia. As the guidance on trivia is subjective and largely up to editors' discretion, I'd like to offer my rationale and seek feedback here first, to ensure there's consensus for doing this.
I think the unspecified high IQ test from his childhood is an unencyclopedic factoid that adds no valuable information to article, and produces a hagiography-like tone. While Sullenberger is a hero, we wouldn't normally include such information in an biographical article and it seems inconsistent to do so here. I can understand why tabloid media such as Fox would dig up such a factoid -- readers want to idolise an incredible act of heroism -- but Wikipedia is not a newspaper and our policies say we should be selective in the information we choose to include. I'd point to the guidance such as summary style, verifiability does not guarantee inclusion, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and the 10-year test as examples that support my argument that a childhood IQ test is not noteworthy. Keen to hear others' thoughts. Jr8825 • Talk 19:26, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Sully Sullenberger is seen signing a hat owned by Quagmire in Season 19, Episode 12. — 2607:FEA8:1420:A700:C5E8:6B4C:48FC:A17A ( talk) 02:25, 17 January 2024 (UTC)