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Has Chelsea Clinton ever met Jenna and Barbara Bush, the twins? Just wondering. 204.52.215.107 18:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I just wanted to point out another semi-controversial SNL skit. I believe Madonna was host or musical guest and sang "Happy Birthday" to Phil Hartman's president Clinton in parody of Marilyn Monroe's serenade of JFK. From what I remember, Madonna winks towards the balcony box where the Clinton's are sitting, Hartman points to himself and Madonna shakes her head. The actress portraying Hillary does the same and once again, Madonna shakes her head, then mouths the words "not you, her," pointing towards Julia Sweeney who plays Chelsea. I remember the skit sparking a minor controversy at the time.
I have removed the following:
For the reason that it is completely FALSE.
The following is true: "On November 6, 1992, three days after her father won the elections, in a reference to who is moving in and out of White House, Limbaugh made a reference to Chelsea and Millie, the dog of outgoing President George H. W. Bush. At the moment where Limbaugh said "cute kid," the picture of Millie appeared onscreen. Limbaugh apologized during that show and gave a more lengthy apology a few days later. "
Here is the (partial) transcript:
Now, after this incident, Rush swore off mentioning Chelsea on his show ever again (at least in a negative way and unless Chelsea made a bit of news that was too big not to be mentioned). Rush certainly did NOT go on about Chelsea for a second time in 1993 to compare her to a dog! That quote is phony. It was invented out of the mind of columnist Molly Ivins. (in a Arizona Republic 10/17/93 article which is why some people are putting that fictious quote in 1993)
Note that the person who inserted the phony info, had the proper date for the correct incident, but only an unambiguous "1993" for the phony incident. Citing no specific date.
"if it truly was a technical error, it could have been corrected prior to airing of the show."
Nope. In order to take something out of the program, something would have had to be put in to replace it. And how much of the error do they take out? A couple seconds? The entire segment? Rush did not do retakes and the show was aired only a matter of hours after it was taped. There was NO time to take anything out. Rush's show was aired as is. Mistakes and all. A light blows. It stayed. Flies flying around the studio, it stayed.
"In addition, the joke would not have made sense if Limbaugh had not intended for Chelsea's photo to appear on screen, as the White House had no dog. (Buddy did not join the Clinton family until a few years later.) "
This is assuming that Rush had made that tasteless joke in 1993. Which he hadnt, not in 1993 or at any other time.
In November 1992, he was doing a comparison of IN/OUT lists that were appearing in newspaper and magazine columns at the time. There were dozens of them. Rush was noting the bias of these lists as well.(he pointed out how many time he was on the "out" lists" and how many democrats,l ike the clintons, were on the "in" lists.)
Transcript: "Most of these things on the in-out list are not even funny, but a couple of them--one of them in particular is.
David Hinckley of--of the New York Daily News wrote this, and what he has--he's got--it's very strange. He says, In: A cute kid in the White House. Out: Cute dog in the White House.' Could--could we see the cute kid? Let's take a look at--see who is the cute kid in the White House.
(A picture is shown of Millie the dog)
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) No, no, no. That's not the kid.
(Picture shown of Chelsea Clinton)
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) That's--that's the kid. We're trying to..."
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.139.23.50 ( talk • contribs) .
Limbaugh has never denied the (correct) Nov. 1992 incident took place. He has never spoken about the false incident attributed to him in 1993, as far as I know.
"verifiabillity"? What kind of verifiabillity did the person who originally posted the (phony) info give? Does he/she have a statement from Limbaugh admitting the (phony) version of events? A transcript? A video clip??? Rush's show was viewed by millions (Myself included) Where are the eyewitnesses? I never missed a show. If I couldnt watch it due to the time (it changed around alot), I taped it. I certainly did NOT see any such incident take place (I saw the Nov. 1992 incident take place. I did not see the "1993" incident take place, EVER.)
Allow me to point out: Rush's show made that mistake when they showed a pic of chelsea when Rush asked for a pic of Millie. That incident got retold in the telling (half the time it is attributed to 1992. That is, untill someone came up with the official transcript. Then Limbaugh's critics, rather than admit they were wrong about it, decided to change their story to 'the incident in question occured at a different time, in 1993'.).
(Speak of the devil, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh
"On November 6, 1992, three days after the election, in reference to who was in and out at the White House, Limbaugh joked on air that he didn't know Bill Clinton had a pet dog, and held up a picture of Chelsea.[citation needed]"
One wishes that his critics would put their heads together and agree on the specific details of the lies they will tell about him.)
Also, the person who posted this (false) info, changed it from: "Rush asked: 'Did you know there was a white house dog?' and then supposedly HOLDS up a photo of chelsea. According to Rush's critics who occasionaly bring up this incident claimed he HELD UP the photo of Chelsea in his hand.
Someone on the internet went to Lexis Nexis to see a transcript, and found only the Nov. 1992 incident. There it is seen what Rush really said and did. For one, he did NOT hold up any photos. All photos were flashed on a video monitor. Clearly, the person who posted the phony info read the transcript and changed his story accordingly. He changed it from "held up a photo" to this: "He then pointed to a video monitor, which switched to a picture of Chelsea." He also changed the year of the incident to 1993 in order to make his objectional observations ("the joke would not have made sense if Limbaugh had not intended for Chelsea's photo to appear on screen, as the White House had no dog. (Buddy did not join the Clinton family until a few years later".) sound more reasonable and logical --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.194.0.90 ( talk • contribs) .
Yep. There are no two seperate incidents. The Nov. 1992 incident that I cite (with the transcript) is the one and only incident regarding this issue. The (false 1993) incident, that "1993" story GREW out of the original Nov. 1992 incident over the years. So far I can trace the false "1993" incident down to an innacurate column by Molly Ivins in 1993.
As the years have passed, details got changed in the retelling. So much so that when confronted with the transcript, some people (Rush's critics) rather than admit that they were giving out wrong details about the incident in question, would then turn around and claim (falsely) that the incident they were describing happened in a different episode in a different year. It happened to me a few times. I would be in argument with, well to put it delicately, someone who hated Rush. They pulled out the old (1993) incident saying it was in 1992. I pulled out the transcript showing what really happened in 1992. Rather than admit their mistake, would then insist claim that it happened in another year. One, after being confronted with the transcript tried to put the incident in July of 1993. Of course, Rush was not on the air in the month of July. He went off the air for the summertime. Another attempted to tell me that the incident occured in September of 1996. Of course, Rush's show went off the air for good in June 1996. One claimed he HEARD Rush do it on his radio show. Of course, the incident in question occured on Rush's tv show. Not his radio show. Another, I saw on a message board on the internet, claimed that Rush performed this "chelsea/dog joke" on his tv show at least once a week, every week. (I had to roll my eyes at that one. As a viewer who never missed an episode, I don't recall seeing it being done once, much less once a week every week. I sure as heck would have remembered that!).
It's like Mark Twain has said: "A Lie will travel halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on"
___________________
Removed again and I'll tell you why. The person who added that bit of phony (1993) incident, used Al Franken and his book as a source.
"Although Limbaugh has claimed that it was a technical error, as Al Franken documented in his book Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, since the show was on a tape delay, if it truly was a technical error, it could have been corrected prior to airing of the show."
So, I went to look at that book, and yes, Franken notes in his book (in a chapter on Sean Hannity where he argues this very issue with Hannity) that Limbaugh claimed it was a technical error. Franken also noted that Rush blamed the behind the scenes tech crew for the foul up. Which is also true. Rush did call it a technical error and blamed it on the behind the scenes crew. But, BUT, Rush did this in 1992, not 1993.
Days after the 1992 incident:
Copyright 1992 Multimedia Entertainment, Inc. RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW: RUSH LIMBAUGH (9:00 PM ET) November 10, 1992, Tuesday 11:15 AM
("Who's Sorry Now" is played and Rush points to himself)
(Laughter)
LIMBAUGH: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry. Let me tell you very quickly what happened last Friday night. There was a new in list and new out list that was published in the newspaper. The writer said in, cute kid in the White House; out, cute dog in the White House. Could we show the cute dog in the White House who's out, and they put up a picture of Chelsea Clinton back in the crew. And many of you people think that we did it on purpose to make a cheap comment on her appearance. And I'm terribly sorry. I don't--look, that takes no talent whatsoever and I have a lot of talent. I don't need to get laughs by commenting on people's looks, especially a young child who's done nothing wrong. I mean, she can't control the way she looks. And we really--we do not--we do not do that on this kind of show. So put a picture up of her now and so we can square this.
(Photo shown of Bill and Chelsea Clinton, who is making a sour face)
(Laughter and applause)
LIMBAUGH: All right. We're sorry. We didn't intend to hurt her feelings. We'll be back with our final segment right after this. Don't go away.
This is sourced also from The Washington Post[ [1]]. Sorry Allen3, you can't just remove this controversial topic without discussing it first here and at least trying to come to consensus. -- Ausman 05:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Looks like Eleemosynary reverted us back to the old version. I don't find this back and forth editing to be particularly useful, so I will try and come up with something that both sides find acceptable this weekend. Please try to work on the edit, rather than just deleting and restoring people. -- Ausman 15:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
The important thing is that Rush never forced the Washington Post to print a timely retraction - not whether the event took place. That is how political reality is created. Yes everyone know the Washington Post has printed errors and even had some bad commentators and reporters with series of bad stories eventually uncovered. Such things happen in political charged newspapers. Yet the important thing is that the reality the Post described is POLITICAL reality -- unless someone had the clout and time to force a timely retraction.
69.23.124.142 ( talk) 02:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I've eliminated the fact that she will be eligible to run for president in 2020 because I don't think it's relevant to anything. Is she planning on running for president? No. LaszloWalrus 02:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Even in her late 20s, Chelsea was shielded from press criticism on grounds that she was not a politician. This held true even when, as in 2008, Chelsea actually campaigned for her mother. Yet Sarah Palin's daughter, only 17, was repeatedly mentioned (complete with photograph) on the front pages of newspapers and at the top of newscasts. This stunning example of a media double standard should be an integral part of this article on Chelsea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.153.18 ( talk) 22:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I understand that the photo of the Globe cover is used to illustrate that the Globe ran articles about Clinton in 1998, but I'm concerned that it has the effect of emphasizing the alcohol-abuse allegations themselves, since it's one of just four photos in the article. If those allegations didn't receive coverage by reliable sources, or are not important enough for the text of the article, then I don't think they should be mentioned via photo either. -- Allen 20:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I remember reading that Chelsea had plastic surgery after she had been in college for a while. There was an article with a "before" and "after" picture, and, while I understand they would use the worst and best pictures they have of her, it really did look like she'd had some work done. Has that ever been verified? ID208 00:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Rumor. Not true. QuirkyAndSuch ( talk) 18:29, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Anyone know if she is still guarded by Secret Service? If so when does it stop, Truman's duaghter is still alive is she guarded? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.206.165.61 ( talk) 02:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
So what is her job at the hedge fund Avenue Capital Group? Presumably she's not a mathematical modeler, since her degrees are in history and international relations. Does she help bring in new investors? Eclecticos 17:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Stanford does not award highest honors; instead, they give out "distinction," I believe to the top 10 or 15% of the class. HTH.
I upgraded the all of the citations. I removed one blog source, it was a third cite for a statement, so wasn't really needed anyway. The Franken thing could use a citation with page number there. The whole paragraph about Mark Lasry is original research as it is currently sourced. Were there any news reports on his contributions? Newsmeat is a good primary source, but there needs to be a secondary source for that too. The last sentence about Morgan Stanley also needs a secondary observer about it being a "coincidence". - Crockspot 02:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a random list of trivia, especially unsourced and unverifiable material, such as Chelsea Clinton's appearance in an alleged, non-notable conservative comic book. For those reasons, I have removed a sentence from this article. I will remove it again once more if it is reverted. Bearian 18:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
What does this sentence mean? I've read it four times and still can't figure out what's being said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.211.251.95 ( talk) 00:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
This seems to be a collection of jokes and comments made about her, because of who her parents are. Besides being mostly in bad taste the whole thing is kind of trivial. Does it tell us anything about Chelsea herself? Borock ( talk) 14:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
There are a couple of big white spaces in the article. I didn't see anything in the edit screen that would help. Borock ( talk) 04:15, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Chelsea spoke to a Dallas audience today. Her introducer said she attended Stanford with an initial major in Chemistry before switching to History, as per this article; Chelsea responded that this was incorrect, and not to believe everything one reads. However, the announcer was fumbling a bit. Is this information on Chelsea's course of majors correct? 2/20/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.110.198.73 ( talk) 21:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
According to First Lady of the United States, Chelsea Clinton filled in for Hillary Clinton in this role at some point. It's not mentioned here in this article, though, and I know nothing about it. Should this article be in Category:U.S. First Ladies? Bryan 07:10, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I believe it should not. A period of 17 days does not warrant a listing in a category with some of the others. Seems to be more of a "misc trivia" than anything else Nick Catalano 08:02, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
It should be mentioned on this discussion page, though, that "First Lady," is a style, not an office, title, rank, or station; the official title is "White House Hostess." The above referenced article cites many Presidential wives who have held the Hostess role, but also daughters and friends of Presidents. Also, doubtless, Chelsea attended functions in her own right, and thus served as a Hostess. I don't think the 17 day limitation is a big deal here....I would like to know more about her life post White House (i.e. how well did she do at University? Life at McKinsey?) Isotopephd 00:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Chelsea Clinton wrote a piece for Talk magazine about her experiences in New York City on Sept. 11. Here are some quotes:
"... I even resent the theory that America's arrogance, even indirectly, led to the attacks".
"I was expounding on the detriments of Bush's tax cut...."
"I stopped berating the tax cut and started praying that the president would rise to lead us. And I thanked God my mother was a senator representing New York ..."
Would it be appropriate to add here a mention of the extremely crass "White House Dog" joke Rush Limbaugh pulled on his TV show? I believe she was aged 13 at the time.
The claim that the "joke" was supposedly an error cannot be taken at face value. The show was aired several hours after it taped. Had it really been an error, he would have removed it from the airing of the show. --
Asbl
15:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Nope. In order to take something out of the program, something would have had to be put in to replace it. And how much of the error do they take out? A couple seconds? The entire segment? Rush did not do retakes and the show was aired only a matter of hours after it was taped. There was NO time to take anything out. Rush's show was aired as is. Mistakes and all. A light blows. It stayed. Flies flying around the studio, it stayed. The behind the scenes guy who made this mistake, thiswasnot his first, but his third and worst one. He was fired, and he went on to produce a short lived tv talk show.
I don't know if any of you caught this in the news, but Chelsea responded defensively to a question about the Monica Lewinsky scandal . A college student who is a reporter for his school's newspaper wanted an opinion on "on the criticism of her mother that how she handled the Lewinsky scandal might be a sign of weakness and she might not be a strong enough candidate to be president." Chelsea replied "Wow, you're the first person actually that's ever asked me that question in the, I don't know maybe, 70 college campuses I've now been to, and I do not think that is any of your business". Is this encyclopedic enough to be added to the article? Here are the numerous news articles that cover the incident. BlueAg09 ( Talk) 04:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The opening of this article contains a statement that she no longer eats red meat. I think this statement should be removed or at least moved to a different section of the article. Any thoughts? JBFrenchhorn ( talk) 05:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
is this really notable? Anastrophe ( talk) 00:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the controversy over Chelsea's and Hilary's different versions of the story of Chelsea's September 11, 2001 experience? http://www.wnyc.org/blog/lehrer/archives/000064.html - Avitor 16:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
This vandalism is getting out of hand (poor Chelsea). I accordingly requested protection at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 22:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
This article seems very poor to me. There are quite a few uncited facts which appear to be completely superfluous and irrelevant. I removed the one about Rush's comments, which is totally irrelevant.
Editors should remember that our facts need to be cited, and information needs to be relevant. This article looks more like a rumor mill in places rather than biography of a living person. Vir4030 ( talk) 12:10, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Please could this be explained? In some countries that how we all vote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 ( talk) 19:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Why does the article have a category attached to it a called "Canadian Americans"? How does this apply?-- InaMaka ( talk) 21:38, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is this under the Cape Cod and the Islands Wikiproject? I don't see any mention of it or of Massachusetts in this article. Does she live there now? Midtempo-abg ( talk) 01:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Can we remove the line about how she uses the word immunizations? It's a really lame example, and I think skipping a grade demonstrates a lot better how bright she was. And honestly it makes sense that her parents would use the word immunizations with her and not "shots" since it isn't as frightening. It's simply the word she knew for it, not a sign of her maturity. 97.127.212.207 ( talk) 17:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
The article says the song "Chelsea Morning" inspited her name but Mrs.Clinton also said she was named after the Chelsea part of London. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.1.231 ( talk) 01:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) I have removed it and replaced it with the following text: Clinton excelled in academics (a family friend described her as a precocious child)"[3] While in elementary school, Clinton skipped the third grade.[4] Still a bit over the top but mode in line with reality. Unidentified family friends are hardly an appropriate source for high IQ and a magazine that specializes in celebrity gossip is hardly a reliable source for anything. -- RegentsPark ( sticks and stones) 03:46, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The part about the Shuster reporter being suspended has a crap citation. Eliminate it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.62.54 ( talk) 16:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Chelsea Clinton's Engagement Was Announced On November 22,2009,Please Put That Date In Her Biography. 67.162.29.162 ( talk) 15:22, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I put in a NY Times reference to the subject's (at this point future) father-in-law having been convicted of fraud and doing federal time.
It was deleted as "tangential" ... but I'm putting it back.
If the subject's father-in-law's history as a congressman is relevant, then so is his ironic history as a convicted fraudster. It's only fair to take the bad with the good.
It's certainly historically significant that the president and Secy of State's daughter is marrying the son of a man who served time in prison for fraud.
It's at least as relevant to the topic as the mention of who will be the subject's husband's uncle (already mentioned in the same sentence).
BTW... I tried to say it in as unbiased a way as possible.
John2510 ( talk) 16:26, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
I put it back. Why is it relevant who her father-in-law is? If it's relevant that he was a congressman, then it's relevant that he's a felon. The deletion of this legitimaate reference is bordering on vandalism. John2510 ( talk) 14:38, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason the current page describes both her new in-laws as former "Democrat" congressmen? The proper term is "Democratic"; "Democrat" as an adjective is used primarily by partisan Republicans as a perjorative. 162.96.105.84 ( talk) 16:39, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
"... it's just an attempt at sleaze-by-association grubbery." No more than that he's a former congressman is an attempt at "credential-by-association" grubbery. A brief mention of her in-laws historical significance is appropriate. Somebody shortened my entry to "convicted fraudster." That seems like an appropriate change. If we're going to drop the convict reference, we ought to drop any reference to her father-in-law's "credentials" at all and just mention his name with a link. I think both are equally relevant and should remain. I don't know anything about the Bush page referenced. Two wrongs don't make a right. Also, if she was convicted and did federal time... I'm guessing it would have made the page. 173.79.190.105 ( talk) 16:53, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
This has reached the point of vandalism of a valid entry about the father-in-law's signficiant history. Do we want to agree to remove any reference to the in-law's credentials... and just link to the names? —Preceding unsigned comment added by John2510 ( talk • contribs) 17:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
No one has given any reason why the positive reference belongs but the negative (and more ironic) one does not. I've posted this dispute on the living person's bio discussions page for broader discussion. John2510 ( talk) 17:25, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Avenue Capital Group indicates Chelsea has moved on to further study. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.171.7.108 ( talk) 01:20, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Can we cut some of the trivia in this article (she loved ping pong as a kid) and tighten the whole thing up to make it an encyclopedia article? I know there's not a lot of interesting, encyclopedic material to publish about Chelsea (she's young and has yet to make her mark in the world) but does the article have to be unencyclopedically "stretched" with trivia as meatloaf is with cracker crumbs and oatmeal? Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 06:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Has she changed her name as a result of her marriage? Alphaboi867 ( talk) 06:13, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Is it not the standard custom in the USA for a wife to take her husbands family name? Why would we assume that she would not? Even if she was one of the "odd balls" to not do so, she would still be refered to as Mrs. her husband's name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.102.228.111 ( talk) 14:10, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
If it all helps, the relevant page naming guideline is at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people), specifically WP:NCP#Multiple and changed surnames and WP:NCP#Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens. The point is that Wikipedia favors the most common name used in reliable sources – not the current married name or the current legal name. If most reliable sources still use "Chelsea Clinton", then that should be the article's name.
However, the first sentence of the article is treated totally different, and is outlined on Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Names. There, we can still use the most current legal or married name, like "Chelsea Victoria (Clinton) Mezvinsky", "Chelsea Mezvinsky (née Clinton)", "Chelsea Mezvinsky, better known by her birth name Chelsea Clinton" or a variation thereof. Zzyzx11 ( talk) 04:44, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I can't understand why she would want to keep her father's name. Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 05:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
← It is utterly irrelevant whether anyone here thinks she should or should not change her name - the only thing that matters is whether reliable sources report that she has or has not done so. This talk page is not for discussing personal opinions about the subject of the biography (or her father), it is to discuss improvements to the article. At present, no one has come forward with any reliable source saying she is taking her husband's name, and since we are not in the 19th century we do not automatically assume that she changed her name. If it is reliably reported that she has, we'll change it. If it is not so reported, we don't change it here. And in a related point, we don't add her husband's name to the lead sentence of the article because that is not where her notability derives from. It is wholly out of place as the lead, so please stop putting it there. Tvoz/ talk 06:09, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I have updated her last name, per stating the obivous - she's married and as such her last name would change. (Yes I know, it could be her last name - her husband's last name or just her husbands last name ) either way, her last name is no longer "Clinton". To change her last name back to Clinton would be incorrect. Kind of a catch-22, it's not Clinton, so we can't her that or it's technically BLP, we don't know how she's going to state her married name, so we can't just have a married last name, so I updated to include both her madien last name and husband's last name. That way, we have references for "Clinton" and at the same time acknowledge that it's no longer her last name (again, stating the obvious). KoshVorlon Naluboutes,Aeria Gloris 16:27, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[copied from my user talk page to consolidate discussion]
-- Chelsea Clinton, redux --
Tvoz,
I understand your desire to keep
Chelsea's entry in compliance with Wikipeda (and by extension, as factual as it can be ) calling her "Chelsea Clinton" is not accurate anymore. She's married, and per common knowledge, she's got a new last name now. No, we don't know if it's just her husband's last name or if it's her madien last name - her husband's last name, but her last name has changed, no citation is needed for it, it's common knowledge just like it's common knowledge that she's a female.
We can't call her "Clinton" anymore, it would technically violate BLP as it's no longer accurate, but neither is a reference available for her official married last name, but both last names could be included that way, we have a reference for her maiden name and acknowledge the RS that show she was married by using her husbands last name (again, per common knowledge).
I did update her page to reflect this. Think about blp before you change it again.
KoshVorlon
Naluboutes,Aeria Gloris
16:33, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I cannot understand why Chelsea's gluten allergy warrants mention here. Many people have allergies. Chelsea's is nothing extraordinary - unless she's "the face" of gluten allergies in America, or her allergy is the subject of a ground breaking study, or it mysteriously immobilizes her for weeks at a time, or it's noteworthy for some eye-popping reason. Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 06:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I think people are grasping for any known fact on a young celebrity who has maintained a very private personal life, and whose ultimate notoriety remains to be seen. She's the daughter of a president and seems like a nice, bright kid... but writing a bio without grasping for straws is a challenge. John2510 ( talk) 04:45, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't support the addition in this edit by Suzanne2009NYC, I agree with Hullaballoo Wolfowitz that it is too much un-encyclopedic discussion of rumor/speculation, long after the factual outcome has been established, and it appears to me to be excessive bla bla with no long term notability or informative educational value. Off2riorob ( talk) 17:12, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I think much of the recent material added to the Oxford section is over the top and out of proportion to the rest of the article in both length and level of detail and insignificance to her life story. That she wore a Versace pantsuit to a couture show? The characterization that she was "adjusting poorly" to life in Britain, which the provided quote does not particularly speak to? This was a couple of years of her life, yet has been given an awful lot of weight. The "expand" tag is up there, so maybe Susanne is planning to expand the other sections accordingly, but right now I am not comfortable at all with the way this is written. I have to add, also, that much of the recent editing seems to be tinged with a sarcastic attitude toward her, with the choice of words and what appears to be an insistence on including anything negative that is out there, out of proportion in my opinion, perhaps in an attempt to provide balance - but i think that;s not really what we mean by balance and undue weight. We are supposed to edit with a neutral point of view - but that doesn't mean we add one negative comment for every positive one, or anything like that. What do other editors think about this section?
Tvoz/
talk
22:54, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
This section was created from models in Angelina Jolie and other FA articles. Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 01:50, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
The article mentions that Clinton is a vegetarian and has her listed under that category, but this article says she's been a vegan since she was a teenager. I've seen mentions of this elsewhere; if reported in a few other reliable sources she should probably be moved to the "American vegans" category. -- Gloriamarie ( talk) 18:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Validation: I can validate much of the public perception of Chelsea Clinton as a vegetarian and the 'for animals' part. I'd suggest that childhood friends could be interviewed to address this question with greater authenticity than a collection of press clippings, since Chelsea's childhood was so heavily protected by her parents. She did attend a Quaker academy (the Sidwell Friends School), and the White House ordered Boca Burgers throughout the Clinton years in the Presidency, and Mrs. Clinton had called in Dr. Dean Ornish and vegan chef Ron Pickarski to consult on White House food early in the first Clinton years. MaynardClark ( talk) 23:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Could we (or someone) add a tag "American vegans"? MaynardClark ( talk) 23:03, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
A number of "First Daughters" have been vegetarian: Amy Carter Patti Reagan-Davis Chelsea Clinton
and Walter Mondale's daughter was (reportedly) a weight-lifter, I recall seeing on a muscle magazine once. MaynardClark ( talk) 23:04, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
This (with reference) should be put in "personal life" section. See my comment on Organization of Sections Harel ( talk) 00:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking of removing the banner. The section appears as complete as it needs to be. Any objections to the removal? Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 23:45, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Clearly needs trimming, the article has recently been excessively bloated with valueless fluff. Off2riorob ( talk) 10:38, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
That is much better Jake. Off2riorob ( talk) 12:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Just to explain why I made my edits - this is really not a big deal, but the NY Times article entitled "Chelsea Clinton Says She Is Expecting" accurately reported what she actually said: "Marc and I are very excited that we have our first child arriving later this year." The other source given was a weaker source, a Washington Post blog, which was the one taking journalistic liberties, not me. Also, the edit ("she was pregnant") is grammatically awkward and could be misinterpreted as saying she no longer is which eventually will be the case, but not now. So that is why I think we should not put words into her mouth, even though they obviously are true, and follow the better source. I don't really have any problem with saying she is pregnant, but think "she and her husband Marc were expecting their first child" is what she announced and what the better source, the Times, accurately reported, so what we should say. It's not clear to me why the wording was repeatedly changed - maybe the source I provided wasn't looked at. Tvoz/ talk 06:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
See the following regarding releasing the name of the baby: [3]. More to come shortly. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 01:08, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
See [4]
See [5].
See WP:BLPNAME.
-- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 01:19, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I still don't understand this conversation, the new baby's name is released ALL over the internet in newspaper publications at this point. Why is it not on the wikipedia article? The links provided by Winkelvi are primarily discussions about other people with more private family lives. Jooojay ( talk) 01:26, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Winkelvi is correct—it's standard that details of children are not included as the details are unimportant news-of-the-day space fillers. Gushing over the sex, name and birth-weight of a baby is fine in general, but it has no encyclopedic value. There are exceptions for cases like Barack Obama where even the family dog may be named, but the general rule is that interesting but unimportant details such as address, phone number, names of children are not included. Johnuniq ( talk) 02:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Any of you are welcome to take this to the BLP Noticeboard. Until then, because this is a BLP article and policy is clear (as well as the consensus in numerous previous discussions on this very subject), the name and all other identifying info should stay out. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 05:49, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
\ Are you really serious? Names of children of notable people are usually reported in their bios, if there is coverage about them in reliable sources. - Cwobeel (talk) 16:37, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Consensus was not reached, nor was it actually sought. The discussion was closed with no consensus or decision noted; the BLP MOS policy per BLPNAME stands. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 20:09, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Caution should be applied when identifying individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event.
When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context.
When deciding whether to include a name, its publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts, should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories.
Consider whether the inclusion of names of living private individuals who are not directly involved in an article's topic adds significant value.
The presumption in favor of privacy is strong in the case of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved, otherwise low-profile persons.
The names of any immediate, ex, or significant family members or any significant relationship of the subject of a BLP may be part of an article, if reliably sourced, subject to editorial discretion that such information is relevant to a reader's complete understanding of the subject.
However, names of family members who are not also notable public figures must be removed from an article if they are not properly sourced.
Choor monster ( talk) 21:09, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Someone start an RfC for Christs sake. Two kinds of pork Makin' Bacon 23:24, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I have fully protected this article so that a consensus can be worked out. Please discuss this at the relevant WP:BLPN listing. Let me know if a consensus is reached that all will adhere to, if you want the protection lifted. If protection expires and there is no resolution I would be perfectly happy to block anybody who adds or removes the disputed material. I would obviously rather it did not come to that. -- John ( talk) 18:42, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
While there is no edit warring currently, there is no consensus on this nor is there "vast precedent" in just one direction. This will likely need to go to a higher level as there is no agreement/consensus possible at this point. Bullying and rude/uncivil behavor doesn't make for consensus. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 20:10, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
There is no consensus on this matter. There is much abuse (see dead horse comment above), misrepresentation and lying. Oh, and being annoyed, which I have never seen mentioned in policy. HiLo48 ( talk) 23:00, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
People have tried to explain to you how your interpretation of BLP regarding the names of famous people's children is incorrect. But you simply refuse to listen to any reason on the subject. 01:10, 2 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lithistman ( talk • contribs)
← John, may I ask what prompted you to protect this page again? There was no edit warring after it re-opened, just an exchange about a minor edit to the infobox which was withdrawn when the reasoning for the revert was stated. There most certainly is consensus here on the matter of keeping the name in the text of the article as is done everywhere in the encyclopedia. This has already been discussed on BLPN. Two editors taking an outlier position here does not mean there is no consensus here, and we all know that consensus does not mean 100% agreement. There is vast precedent all over the encyclopedia for this, there are excellent reliable sources, and there is consensus to include. Do we really have to go through the whole thing again, just because one editor says he's having "fun" complaining about it, and another has a grossly wrong interpretation of BLP (read above, too many times to post diffs) which previously led him to immediately revert as if this is defamatory material? You protect a page when there's severe edit warring - there was some a few days ago, but notably when the previous protection was lifted, neither of the two editors who think the name should be out removed it, even though they had opportunity to do so. So I thank them for their restraint in not removing the name again, which perhaps means that they accept the reality of the consensus here, or at least that they did not wish to edit war and risk block when clearly the policy that allows an exception to 3RR (defamatory material on a BLP) was not applicable - so why has it been protected again? I reiterate what I and others said above: there was an exchange about the infobox, and it was amicably and quickly resolved, without edit warring. Perhaps you misread that exchange as a continuation of the problem, but I choose to see the lack of removal of the name as a tacit acceptance that although they disagree, there is no consensus or policy or BLPN support for their position, and so they left it alone while repeating their objections here on Talk. They can pursue this where they like, but my understanding of this situation is that it is at the discretion of the editors on a page as to whether they wish to include well-sourced non-defamatory public material such as this, and the editors here have agreed it belongs here (as did many on BLPN, by the way). Please open the page. Tvoz/ talk 02:06, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
The name does not belong in the infobox, according to long-standing Template:infobox person consensus. Winkelvi's edit summary was incorrect/incomplete, but his reversion of my edit was absolutely correct: both children counts and names are allowed. Infobox use of names, however, for children, parents, other relatives, have to be notable. (This does not mean they have an article yet, just that they meet WP:GNG and all that.)
We have all agreed Charlotte is not notable, so there's absolutely nothing to discuss on this matter. My apologies for ignorantly jumping the gun. Choor monster ( talk) 15:53, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
infoplease.com, the on-line successor to the Information Please Almanac, lists in their one-paragraph entry on Chelsea, the name and birthdate of her daughter. Choor monster ( talk) 11:41, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
No, in fact, you have not. You claim one thing (say, BLPNAME), then when that is utterly disproved as an issue, you jump to another (say, RECENTISM), and when that is run to ground, you just utter non sequiturs like "for a multitude of reasons", that are completely devoid of meaning, since your "reasons" have been discredited. What it boils down to is nothing more than "
you don't like it--nothing more, and nothing less.
LHM
ask me a question
18:26, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Oh, and finally, you cover yourself in ridiculousness by questioning whether Chelsea Clinton is actually famous. Your "arguments" are just so nonsensical as to be laughable, if you weren't being so intransigent and tendentious about them.
LHM
ask me a question
18:28, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
undue content and a breach of
Wedding guests were offered a vegan menu and gluten-free cake, as well as beef. Is Chelsea a vegan? If not, I'd say this sentence is not notable. If she is, the sentence should be put in the context that this is either her or her husband's diet. As it stands, it's not really encyclopedic. How hot is the sun? ( talk) 20:38, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Collapsing off-topic and needlessly sarcastic commentary. If you have a recommendation to make regarding the wedding meal info, make it. But this kind of sarcasm and snark accomplishes nothing.
LHM
ask me a question
23:31, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
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I have searched and searched and searched for ONE picture of Chelsea's daughter's face, front on. If someone has one, please post it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.219.44.188 ( talk) 13:55, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Please discuss here before removal of sourced content Shrikanthv ( talk) 05:22, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I think it's important to point out the Geico Gecko interview. She was earning $600,000 dollars a year at NBC News (which is actually $100,000 more than the executive editor at the New York Times) and was criticized by media reporters like Dylan Byers and many others for the interview with the Geico Gecko. Definitely a memorable moment.-- The lorax ( talk) 15:23, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
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I removed the exact dob of a non notable minor. I was reverted with the reason per talk page discussion. Where is that? -- Malerooster ( talk) 05:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
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We seem to be inconsistent about the name we use for her mother. In the lead she is called Hillary Clinton. But in the infobox and the "early life" section she is called Hillary Rodham. IMO it is appropriate for the lead to say Hillary Clinton, since that is what the article about her is now called. But I think the infobox and the text should say Hillary Rodham Clinton. I notice it has been Hillary Rodham for a long time, so I am asking here rather than boldly changing it. Thoughts? -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:56, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Am curious if Chelsea receives her income from her parent connections and support, or from her academic credentials and accomplishments as most graduates do. She works for a nonprofit, so does she give the same without claiming a tax deduction? Just curious if givers are really givers, or takers as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.73.219.45 ( talk) 17:07, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Somebody added an ancestry chart to the article. User:Tvoz tagged it as "citation needed". Personally I think the section should be deleted. It is not only unreferenced, it is unnecessary. We don't include that kind of information for most biography articles; in fact, we don't include it for her mother or her father! -- MelanieN ( talk) 21:54, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Material that has been in this article for at least six years was removed because it was deemed "ridiculous - inappropriate", "sappy", nothing out of the ordinary", and that such stories "can be told about every child". First, no, such stories unfortunately cannot be told about every child, and the daughter of a president and potentially two presidents makes her not at all "any child" meaning that her place in her family, and how her birth was viewed by her parents, is relevant and appropriate. While I do not think it is of supreme importance, this speaks to a family dynamic which has been scrutinized and commented on by journalists, biographers, pop psychologists, etc for years. I had edited it down a bit in deference to the initial complaint, re-adding some of it because it fleshes out her "early years" story a bit, and again, has stood the test of time here on this BLP. Removing the edited-down version without any discussion is what is inappropriate. Since as I said, I don't consider this of supreme importance, I'm not going to put it back yet, and am interested in what others think, but would ask editors to discuss rather than undo edits that explain and attempt to take into account what an initial removal of long-standing material was based on. Anyone care to comment? Tvoz/ talk 23:08, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
The abbreviations MPhil and DPhil should be fully spelled out as Master of Philosphy and Doctor of Philosophy the first time they are used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.162.218.153 ( talk) 19:41, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Hey @ Tvoz:, can we keep the Geico Gecko interview? It was singled out by journalists who felt she didn't really earn the $600,000/year pay check for being a Rock Center correspondent? -- The lorax ( talk) 18:44, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
I have removed this from the article:
The quote comes from 2007. I don't think it's particularly helpful for the article which also have quotes from Bill Clinton that are similar that are from closer in time to the events, so I am removing this quote. Knope7 ( talk) 03:19, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
It's very strange that there is a 2008 section regarding her mother's presidential campaign, but no section for the 2016 campaign despite Chelsea Clinton's similar role as a surrogate for her mother's campaign. Calibrador ( talk) 02:40, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
She went to University College, Oxford. Oxford itself isn't the name of any of the universities IN Oxford - a city with 38 Colleges and six Permanent Private Halls. The status of Cambridge is similar. Just putting 'oxford' is quite embarrassing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.56.145 ( talk) 18:32, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
At Oxford, she was a shoe-in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:300A:D09:F500:B5B9:96E7:681F:906C ( talk) 23:43, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
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This article is written by someone working for the Clintons. No mention is made of the likely father and no mention is made of the use of the fund she manages What is "As part of her work, she gives paid speeches to raise money with her fees going directly to the foundation, whose goals relate to improving global health" used for? Certainly not anyone from Haiti — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.23.66.170 ( talk) 18:51, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Has Chelsea Clinton ever met Jenna and Barbara Bush, the twins? Just wondering. 204.52.215.107 18:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I just wanted to point out another semi-controversial SNL skit. I believe Madonna was host or musical guest and sang "Happy Birthday" to Phil Hartman's president Clinton in parody of Marilyn Monroe's serenade of JFK. From what I remember, Madonna winks towards the balcony box where the Clinton's are sitting, Hartman points to himself and Madonna shakes her head. The actress portraying Hillary does the same and once again, Madonna shakes her head, then mouths the words "not you, her," pointing towards Julia Sweeney who plays Chelsea. I remember the skit sparking a minor controversy at the time.
I have removed the following:
For the reason that it is completely FALSE.
The following is true: "On November 6, 1992, three days after her father won the elections, in a reference to who is moving in and out of White House, Limbaugh made a reference to Chelsea and Millie, the dog of outgoing President George H. W. Bush. At the moment where Limbaugh said "cute kid," the picture of Millie appeared onscreen. Limbaugh apologized during that show and gave a more lengthy apology a few days later. "
Here is the (partial) transcript:
Now, after this incident, Rush swore off mentioning Chelsea on his show ever again (at least in a negative way and unless Chelsea made a bit of news that was too big not to be mentioned). Rush certainly did NOT go on about Chelsea for a second time in 1993 to compare her to a dog! That quote is phony. It was invented out of the mind of columnist Molly Ivins. (in a Arizona Republic 10/17/93 article which is why some people are putting that fictious quote in 1993)
Note that the person who inserted the phony info, had the proper date for the correct incident, but only an unambiguous "1993" for the phony incident. Citing no specific date.
"if it truly was a technical error, it could have been corrected prior to airing of the show."
Nope. In order to take something out of the program, something would have had to be put in to replace it. And how much of the error do they take out? A couple seconds? The entire segment? Rush did not do retakes and the show was aired only a matter of hours after it was taped. There was NO time to take anything out. Rush's show was aired as is. Mistakes and all. A light blows. It stayed. Flies flying around the studio, it stayed.
"In addition, the joke would not have made sense if Limbaugh had not intended for Chelsea's photo to appear on screen, as the White House had no dog. (Buddy did not join the Clinton family until a few years later.) "
This is assuming that Rush had made that tasteless joke in 1993. Which he hadnt, not in 1993 or at any other time.
In November 1992, he was doing a comparison of IN/OUT lists that were appearing in newspaper and magazine columns at the time. There were dozens of them. Rush was noting the bias of these lists as well.(he pointed out how many time he was on the "out" lists" and how many democrats,l ike the clintons, were on the "in" lists.)
Transcript: "Most of these things on the in-out list are not even funny, but a couple of them--one of them in particular is.
David Hinckley of--of the New York Daily News wrote this, and what he has--he's got--it's very strange. He says, In: A cute kid in the White House. Out: Cute dog in the White House.' Could--could we see the cute kid? Let's take a look at--see who is the cute kid in the White House.
(A picture is shown of Millie the dog)
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) No, no, no. That's not the kid.
(Picture shown of Chelsea Clinton)
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) That's--that's the kid. We're trying to..."
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.139.23.50 ( talk • contribs) .
Limbaugh has never denied the (correct) Nov. 1992 incident took place. He has never spoken about the false incident attributed to him in 1993, as far as I know.
"verifiabillity"? What kind of verifiabillity did the person who originally posted the (phony) info give? Does he/she have a statement from Limbaugh admitting the (phony) version of events? A transcript? A video clip??? Rush's show was viewed by millions (Myself included) Where are the eyewitnesses? I never missed a show. If I couldnt watch it due to the time (it changed around alot), I taped it. I certainly did NOT see any such incident take place (I saw the Nov. 1992 incident take place. I did not see the "1993" incident take place, EVER.)
Allow me to point out: Rush's show made that mistake when they showed a pic of chelsea when Rush asked for a pic of Millie. That incident got retold in the telling (half the time it is attributed to 1992. That is, untill someone came up with the official transcript. Then Limbaugh's critics, rather than admit they were wrong about it, decided to change their story to 'the incident in question occured at a different time, in 1993'.).
(Speak of the devil, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh
"On November 6, 1992, three days after the election, in reference to who was in and out at the White House, Limbaugh joked on air that he didn't know Bill Clinton had a pet dog, and held up a picture of Chelsea.[citation needed]"
One wishes that his critics would put their heads together and agree on the specific details of the lies they will tell about him.)
Also, the person who posted this (false) info, changed it from: "Rush asked: 'Did you know there was a white house dog?' and then supposedly HOLDS up a photo of chelsea. According to Rush's critics who occasionaly bring up this incident claimed he HELD UP the photo of Chelsea in his hand.
Someone on the internet went to Lexis Nexis to see a transcript, and found only the Nov. 1992 incident. There it is seen what Rush really said and did. For one, he did NOT hold up any photos. All photos were flashed on a video monitor. Clearly, the person who posted the phony info read the transcript and changed his story accordingly. He changed it from "held up a photo" to this: "He then pointed to a video monitor, which switched to a picture of Chelsea." He also changed the year of the incident to 1993 in order to make his objectional observations ("the joke would not have made sense if Limbaugh had not intended for Chelsea's photo to appear on screen, as the White House had no dog. (Buddy did not join the Clinton family until a few years later".) sound more reasonable and logical --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.194.0.90 ( talk • contribs) .
Yep. There are no two seperate incidents. The Nov. 1992 incident that I cite (with the transcript) is the one and only incident regarding this issue. The (false 1993) incident, that "1993" story GREW out of the original Nov. 1992 incident over the years. So far I can trace the false "1993" incident down to an innacurate column by Molly Ivins in 1993.
As the years have passed, details got changed in the retelling. So much so that when confronted with the transcript, some people (Rush's critics) rather than admit that they were giving out wrong details about the incident in question, would then turn around and claim (falsely) that the incident they were describing happened in a different episode in a different year. It happened to me a few times. I would be in argument with, well to put it delicately, someone who hated Rush. They pulled out the old (1993) incident saying it was in 1992. I pulled out the transcript showing what really happened in 1992. Rather than admit their mistake, would then insist claim that it happened in another year. One, after being confronted with the transcript tried to put the incident in July of 1993. Of course, Rush was not on the air in the month of July. He went off the air for the summertime. Another attempted to tell me that the incident occured in September of 1996. Of course, Rush's show went off the air for good in June 1996. One claimed he HEARD Rush do it on his radio show. Of course, the incident in question occured on Rush's tv show. Not his radio show. Another, I saw on a message board on the internet, claimed that Rush performed this "chelsea/dog joke" on his tv show at least once a week, every week. (I had to roll my eyes at that one. As a viewer who never missed an episode, I don't recall seeing it being done once, much less once a week every week. I sure as heck would have remembered that!).
It's like Mark Twain has said: "A Lie will travel halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on"
___________________
Removed again and I'll tell you why. The person who added that bit of phony (1993) incident, used Al Franken and his book as a source.
"Although Limbaugh has claimed that it was a technical error, as Al Franken documented in his book Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, since the show was on a tape delay, if it truly was a technical error, it could have been corrected prior to airing of the show."
So, I went to look at that book, and yes, Franken notes in his book (in a chapter on Sean Hannity where he argues this very issue with Hannity) that Limbaugh claimed it was a technical error. Franken also noted that Rush blamed the behind the scenes tech crew for the foul up. Which is also true. Rush did call it a technical error and blamed it on the behind the scenes crew. But, BUT, Rush did this in 1992, not 1993.
Days after the 1992 incident:
Copyright 1992 Multimedia Entertainment, Inc. RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW: RUSH LIMBAUGH (9:00 PM ET) November 10, 1992, Tuesday 11:15 AM
("Who's Sorry Now" is played and Rush points to himself)
(Laughter)
LIMBAUGH: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry. Let me tell you very quickly what happened last Friday night. There was a new in list and new out list that was published in the newspaper. The writer said in, cute kid in the White House; out, cute dog in the White House. Could we show the cute dog in the White House who's out, and they put up a picture of Chelsea Clinton back in the crew. And many of you people think that we did it on purpose to make a cheap comment on her appearance. And I'm terribly sorry. I don't--look, that takes no talent whatsoever and I have a lot of talent. I don't need to get laughs by commenting on people's looks, especially a young child who's done nothing wrong. I mean, she can't control the way she looks. And we really--we do not--we do not do that on this kind of show. So put a picture up of her now and so we can square this.
(Photo shown of Bill and Chelsea Clinton, who is making a sour face)
(Laughter and applause)
LIMBAUGH: All right. We're sorry. We didn't intend to hurt her feelings. We'll be back with our final segment right after this. Don't go away.
This is sourced also from The Washington Post[ [1]]. Sorry Allen3, you can't just remove this controversial topic without discussing it first here and at least trying to come to consensus. -- Ausman 05:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Looks like Eleemosynary reverted us back to the old version. I don't find this back and forth editing to be particularly useful, so I will try and come up with something that both sides find acceptable this weekend. Please try to work on the edit, rather than just deleting and restoring people. -- Ausman 15:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
The important thing is that Rush never forced the Washington Post to print a timely retraction - not whether the event took place. That is how political reality is created. Yes everyone know the Washington Post has printed errors and even had some bad commentators and reporters with series of bad stories eventually uncovered. Such things happen in political charged newspapers. Yet the important thing is that the reality the Post described is POLITICAL reality -- unless someone had the clout and time to force a timely retraction.
69.23.124.142 ( talk) 02:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I've eliminated the fact that she will be eligible to run for president in 2020 because I don't think it's relevant to anything. Is she planning on running for president? No. LaszloWalrus 02:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Even in her late 20s, Chelsea was shielded from press criticism on grounds that she was not a politician. This held true even when, as in 2008, Chelsea actually campaigned for her mother. Yet Sarah Palin's daughter, only 17, was repeatedly mentioned (complete with photograph) on the front pages of newspapers and at the top of newscasts. This stunning example of a media double standard should be an integral part of this article on Chelsea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.153.18 ( talk) 22:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I understand that the photo of the Globe cover is used to illustrate that the Globe ran articles about Clinton in 1998, but I'm concerned that it has the effect of emphasizing the alcohol-abuse allegations themselves, since it's one of just four photos in the article. If those allegations didn't receive coverage by reliable sources, or are not important enough for the text of the article, then I don't think they should be mentioned via photo either. -- Allen 20:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I remember reading that Chelsea had plastic surgery after she had been in college for a while. There was an article with a "before" and "after" picture, and, while I understand they would use the worst and best pictures they have of her, it really did look like she'd had some work done. Has that ever been verified? ID208 00:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Rumor. Not true. QuirkyAndSuch ( talk) 18:29, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Anyone know if she is still guarded by Secret Service? If so when does it stop, Truman's duaghter is still alive is she guarded? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.206.165.61 ( talk) 02:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
So what is her job at the hedge fund Avenue Capital Group? Presumably she's not a mathematical modeler, since her degrees are in history and international relations. Does she help bring in new investors? Eclecticos 17:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Stanford does not award highest honors; instead, they give out "distinction," I believe to the top 10 or 15% of the class. HTH.
I upgraded the all of the citations. I removed one blog source, it was a third cite for a statement, so wasn't really needed anyway. The Franken thing could use a citation with page number there. The whole paragraph about Mark Lasry is original research as it is currently sourced. Were there any news reports on his contributions? Newsmeat is a good primary source, but there needs to be a secondary source for that too. The last sentence about Morgan Stanley also needs a secondary observer about it being a "coincidence". - Crockspot 02:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a random list of trivia, especially unsourced and unverifiable material, such as Chelsea Clinton's appearance in an alleged, non-notable conservative comic book. For those reasons, I have removed a sentence from this article. I will remove it again once more if it is reverted. Bearian 18:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
What does this sentence mean? I've read it four times and still can't figure out what's being said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.211.251.95 ( talk) 00:01, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
This seems to be a collection of jokes and comments made about her, because of who her parents are. Besides being mostly in bad taste the whole thing is kind of trivial. Does it tell us anything about Chelsea herself? Borock ( talk) 14:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
There are a couple of big white spaces in the article. I didn't see anything in the edit screen that would help. Borock ( talk) 04:15, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Chelsea spoke to a Dallas audience today. Her introducer said she attended Stanford with an initial major in Chemistry before switching to History, as per this article; Chelsea responded that this was incorrect, and not to believe everything one reads. However, the announcer was fumbling a bit. Is this information on Chelsea's course of majors correct? 2/20/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.110.198.73 ( talk) 21:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
According to First Lady of the United States, Chelsea Clinton filled in for Hillary Clinton in this role at some point. It's not mentioned here in this article, though, and I know nothing about it. Should this article be in Category:U.S. First Ladies? Bryan 07:10, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I believe it should not. A period of 17 days does not warrant a listing in a category with some of the others. Seems to be more of a "misc trivia" than anything else Nick Catalano 08:02, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
It should be mentioned on this discussion page, though, that "First Lady," is a style, not an office, title, rank, or station; the official title is "White House Hostess." The above referenced article cites many Presidential wives who have held the Hostess role, but also daughters and friends of Presidents. Also, doubtless, Chelsea attended functions in her own right, and thus served as a Hostess. I don't think the 17 day limitation is a big deal here....I would like to know more about her life post White House (i.e. how well did she do at University? Life at McKinsey?) Isotopephd 00:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Chelsea Clinton wrote a piece for Talk magazine about her experiences in New York City on Sept. 11. Here are some quotes:
"... I even resent the theory that America's arrogance, even indirectly, led to the attacks".
"I was expounding on the detriments of Bush's tax cut...."
"I stopped berating the tax cut and started praying that the president would rise to lead us. And I thanked God my mother was a senator representing New York ..."
Would it be appropriate to add here a mention of the extremely crass "White House Dog" joke Rush Limbaugh pulled on his TV show? I believe she was aged 13 at the time.
The claim that the "joke" was supposedly an error cannot be taken at face value. The show was aired several hours after it taped. Had it really been an error, he would have removed it from the airing of the show. --
Asbl
15:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Nope. In order to take something out of the program, something would have had to be put in to replace it. And how much of the error do they take out? A couple seconds? The entire segment? Rush did not do retakes and the show was aired only a matter of hours after it was taped. There was NO time to take anything out. Rush's show was aired as is. Mistakes and all. A light blows. It stayed. Flies flying around the studio, it stayed. The behind the scenes guy who made this mistake, thiswasnot his first, but his third and worst one. He was fired, and he went on to produce a short lived tv talk show.
I don't know if any of you caught this in the news, but Chelsea responded defensively to a question about the Monica Lewinsky scandal . A college student who is a reporter for his school's newspaper wanted an opinion on "on the criticism of her mother that how she handled the Lewinsky scandal might be a sign of weakness and she might not be a strong enough candidate to be president." Chelsea replied "Wow, you're the first person actually that's ever asked me that question in the, I don't know maybe, 70 college campuses I've now been to, and I do not think that is any of your business". Is this encyclopedic enough to be added to the article? Here are the numerous news articles that cover the incident. BlueAg09 ( Talk) 04:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The opening of this article contains a statement that she no longer eats red meat. I think this statement should be removed or at least moved to a different section of the article. Any thoughts? JBFrenchhorn ( talk) 05:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
is this really notable? Anastrophe ( talk) 00:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of the controversy over Chelsea's and Hilary's different versions of the story of Chelsea's September 11, 2001 experience? http://www.wnyc.org/blog/lehrer/archives/000064.html - Avitor 16:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
This vandalism is getting out of hand (poor Chelsea). I accordingly requested protection at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 22:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
This article seems very poor to me. There are quite a few uncited facts which appear to be completely superfluous and irrelevant. I removed the one about Rush's comments, which is totally irrelevant.
Editors should remember that our facts need to be cited, and information needs to be relevant. This article looks more like a rumor mill in places rather than biography of a living person. Vir4030 ( talk) 12:10, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Please could this be explained? In some countries that how we all vote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 ( talk) 19:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Why does the article have a category attached to it a called "Canadian Americans"? How does this apply?-- InaMaka ( talk) 21:38, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is this under the Cape Cod and the Islands Wikiproject? I don't see any mention of it or of Massachusetts in this article. Does she live there now? Midtempo-abg ( talk) 01:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Can we remove the line about how she uses the word immunizations? It's a really lame example, and I think skipping a grade demonstrates a lot better how bright she was. And honestly it makes sense that her parents would use the word immunizations with her and not "shots" since it isn't as frightening. It's simply the word she knew for it, not a sign of her maturity. 97.127.212.207 ( talk) 17:20, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
The article says the song "Chelsea Morning" inspited her name but Mrs.Clinton also said she was named after the Chelsea part of London. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.1.231 ( talk) 01:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) I have removed it and replaced it with the following text: Clinton excelled in academics (a family friend described her as a precocious child)"[3] While in elementary school, Clinton skipped the third grade.[4] Still a bit over the top but mode in line with reality. Unidentified family friends are hardly an appropriate source for high IQ and a magazine that specializes in celebrity gossip is hardly a reliable source for anything. -- RegentsPark ( sticks and stones) 03:46, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
The part about the Shuster reporter being suspended has a crap citation. Eliminate it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.62.54 ( talk) 16:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Chelsea Clinton's Engagement Was Announced On November 22,2009,Please Put That Date In Her Biography. 67.162.29.162 ( talk) 15:22, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
I put in a NY Times reference to the subject's (at this point future) father-in-law having been convicted of fraud and doing federal time.
It was deleted as "tangential" ... but I'm putting it back.
If the subject's father-in-law's history as a congressman is relevant, then so is his ironic history as a convicted fraudster. It's only fair to take the bad with the good.
It's certainly historically significant that the president and Secy of State's daughter is marrying the son of a man who served time in prison for fraud.
It's at least as relevant to the topic as the mention of who will be the subject's husband's uncle (already mentioned in the same sentence).
BTW... I tried to say it in as unbiased a way as possible.
John2510 ( talk) 16:26, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
I put it back. Why is it relevant who her father-in-law is? If it's relevant that he was a congressman, then it's relevant that he's a felon. The deletion of this legitimaate reference is bordering on vandalism. John2510 ( talk) 14:38, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason the current page describes both her new in-laws as former "Democrat" congressmen? The proper term is "Democratic"; "Democrat" as an adjective is used primarily by partisan Republicans as a perjorative. 162.96.105.84 ( talk) 16:39, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
"... it's just an attempt at sleaze-by-association grubbery." No more than that he's a former congressman is an attempt at "credential-by-association" grubbery. A brief mention of her in-laws historical significance is appropriate. Somebody shortened my entry to "convicted fraudster." That seems like an appropriate change. If we're going to drop the convict reference, we ought to drop any reference to her father-in-law's "credentials" at all and just mention his name with a link. I think both are equally relevant and should remain. I don't know anything about the Bush page referenced. Two wrongs don't make a right. Also, if she was convicted and did federal time... I'm guessing it would have made the page. 173.79.190.105 ( talk) 16:53, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
This has reached the point of vandalism of a valid entry about the father-in-law's signficiant history. Do we want to agree to remove any reference to the in-law's credentials... and just link to the names? —Preceding unsigned comment added by John2510 ( talk • contribs) 17:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
No one has given any reason why the positive reference belongs but the negative (and more ironic) one does not. I've posted this dispute on the living person's bio discussions page for broader discussion. John2510 ( talk) 17:25, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Avenue Capital Group indicates Chelsea has moved on to further study. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.171.7.108 ( talk) 01:20, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Can we cut some of the trivia in this article (she loved ping pong as a kid) and tighten the whole thing up to make it an encyclopedia article? I know there's not a lot of interesting, encyclopedic material to publish about Chelsea (she's young and has yet to make her mark in the world) but does the article have to be unencyclopedically "stretched" with trivia as meatloaf is with cracker crumbs and oatmeal? Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 06:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Has she changed her name as a result of her marriage? Alphaboi867 ( talk) 06:13, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Is it not the standard custom in the USA for a wife to take her husbands family name? Why would we assume that she would not? Even if she was one of the "odd balls" to not do so, she would still be refered to as Mrs. her husband's name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.102.228.111 ( talk) 14:10, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
If it all helps, the relevant page naming guideline is at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people), specifically WP:NCP#Multiple and changed surnames and WP:NCP#Nicknames, pen names, stage names, cognomens. The point is that Wikipedia favors the most common name used in reliable sources – not the current married name or the current legal name. If most reliable sources still use "Chelsea Clinton", then that should be the article's name.
However, the first sentence of the article is treated totally different, and is outlined on Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Names. There, we can still use the most current legal or married name, like "Chelsea Victoria (Clinton) Mezvinsky", "Chelsea Mezvinsky (née Clinton)", "Chelsea Mezvinsky, better known by her birth name Chelsea Clinton" or a variation thereof. Zzyzx11 ( talk) 04:44, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I can't understand why she would want to keep her father's name. Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 05:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
← It is utterly irrelevant whether anyone here thinks she should or should not change her name - the only thing that matters is whether reliable sources report that she has or has not done so. This talk page is not for discussing personal opinions about the subject of the biography (or her father), it is to discuss improvements to the article. At present, no one has come forward with any reliable source saying she is taking her husband's name, and since we are not in the 19th century we do not automatically assume that she changed her name. If it is reliably reported that she has, we'll change it. If it is not so reported, we don't change it here. And in a related point, we don't add her husband's name to the lead sentence of the article because that is not where her notability derives from. It is wholly out of place as the lead, so please stop putting it there. Tvoz/ talk 06:09, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I have updated her last name, per stating the obivous - she's married and as such her last name would change. (Yes I know, it could be her last name - her husband's last name or just her husbands last name ) either way, her last name is no longer "Clinton". To change her last name back to Clinton would be incorrect. Kind of a catch-22, it's not Clinton, so we can't her that or it's technically BLP, we don't know how she's going to state her married name, so we can't just have a married last name, so I updated to include both her madien last name and husband's last name. That way, we have references for "Clinton" and at the same time acknowledge that it's no longer her last name (again, stating the obvious). KoshVorlon Naluboutes,Aeria Gloris 16:27, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
[copied from my user talk page to consolidate discussion]
-- Chelsea Clinton, redux --
Tvoz,
I understand your desire to keep
Chelsea's entry in compliance with Wikipeda (and by extension, as factual as it can be ) calling her "Chelsea Clinton" is not accurate anymore. She's married, and per common knowledge, she's got a new last name now. No, we don't know if it's just her husband's last name or if it's her madien last name - her husband's last name, but her last name has changed, no citation is needed for it, it's common knowledge just like it's common knowledge that she's a female.
We can't call her "Clinton" anymore, it would technically violate BLP as it's no longer accurate, but neither is a reference available for her official married last name, but both last names could be included that way, we have a reference for her maiden name and acknowledge the RS that show she was married by using her husbands last name (again, per common knowledge).
I did update her page to reflect this. Think about blp before you change it again.
KoshVorlon
Naluboutes,Aeria Gloris
16:33, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I cannot understand why Chelsea's gluten allergy warrants mention here. Many people have allergies. Chelsea's is nothing extraordinary - unless she's "the face" of gluten allergies in America, or her allergy is the subject of a ground breaking study, or it mysteriously immobilizes her for weeks at a time, or it's noteworthy for some eye-popping reason. Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 06:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I think people are grasping for any known fact on a young celebrity who has maintained a very private personal life, and whose ultimate notoriety remains to be seen. She's the daughter of a president and seems like a nice, bright kid... but writing a bio without grasping for straws is a challenge. John2510 ( talk) 04:45, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't support the addition in this edit by Suzanne2009NYC, I agree with Hullaballoo Wolfowitz that it is too much un-encyclopedic discussion of rumor/speculation, long after the factual outcome has been established, and it appears to me to be excessive bla bla with no long term notability or informative educational value. Off2riorob ( talk) 17:12, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I think much of the recent material added to the Oxford section is over the top and out of proportion to the rest of the article in both length and level of detail and insignificance to her life story. That she wore a Versace pantsuit to a couture show? The characterization that she was "adjusting poorly" to life in Britain, which the provided quote does not particularly speak to? This was a couple of years of her life, yet has been given an awful lot of weight. The "expand" tag is up there, so maybe Susanne is planning to expand the other sections accordingly, but right now I am not comfortable at all with the way this is written. I have to add, also, that much of the recent editing seems to be tinged with a sarcastic attitude toward her, with the choice of words and what appears to be an insistence on including anything negative that is out there, out of proportion in my opinion, perhaps in an attempt to provide balance - but i think that;s not really what we mean by balance and undue weight. We are supposed to edit with a neutral point of view - but that doesn't mean we add one negative comment for every positive one, or anything like that. What do other editors think about this section?
Tvoz/
talk
22:54, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
This section was created from models in Angelina Jolie and other FA articles. Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 01:50, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
The article mentions that Clinton is a vegetarian and has her listed under that category, but this article says she's been a vegan since she was a teenager. I've seen mentions of this elsewhere; if reported in a few other reliable sources she should probably be moved to the "American vegans" category. -- Gloriamarie ( talk) 18:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
Validation: I can validate much of the public perception of Chelsea Clinton as a vegetarian and the 'for animals' part. I'd suggest that childhood friends could be interviewed to address this question with greater authenticity than a collection of press clippings, since Chelsea's childhood was so heavily protected by her parents. She did attend a Quaker academy (the Sidwell Friends School), and the White House ordered Boca Burgers throughout the Clinton years in the Presidency, and Mrs. Clinton had called in Dr. Dean Ornish and vegan chef Ron Pickarski to consult on White House food early in the first Clinton years. MaynardClark ( talk) 23:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Could we (or someone) add a tag "American vegans"? MaynardClark ( talk) 23:03, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
A number of "First Daughters" have been vegetarian: Amy Carter Patti Reagan-Davis Chelsea Clinton
and Walter Mondale's daughter was (reportedly) a weight-lifter, I recall seeing on a muscle magazine once. MaynardClark ( talk) 23:04, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
This (with reference) should be put in "personal life" section. See my comment on Organization of Sections Harel ( talk) 00:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking of removing the banner. The section appears as complete as it needs to be. Any objections to the removal? Susanne2009NYC ( talk) 23:45, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Clearly needs trimming, the article has recently been excessively bloated with valueless fluff. Off2riorob ( talk) 10:38, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
That is much better Jake. Off2riorob ( talk) 12:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
Just to explain why I made my edits - this is really not a big deal, but the NY Times article entitled "Chelsea Clinton Says She Is Expecting" accurately reported what she actually said: "Marc and I are very excited that we have our first child arriving later this year." The other source given was a weaker source, a Washington Post blog, which was the one taking journalistic liberties, not me. Also, the edit ("she was pregnant") is grammatically awkward and could be misinterpreted as saying she no longer is which eventually will be the case, but not now. So that is why I think we should not put words into her mouth, even though they obviously are true, and follow the better source. I don't really have any problem with saying she is pregnant, but think "she and her husband Marc were expecting their first child" is what she announced and what the better source, the Times, accurately reported, so what we should say. It's not clear to me why the wording was repeatedly changed - maybe the source I provided wasn't looked at. Tvoz/ talk 06:48, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
See the following regarding releasing the name of the baby: [3]. More to come shortly. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 01:08, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
See [4]
See [5].
See WP:BLPNAME.
-- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 01:19, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I still don't understand this conversation, the new baby's name is released ALL over the internet in newspaper publications at this point. Why is it not on the wikipedia article? The links provided by Winkelvi are primarily discussions about other people with more private family lives. Jooojay ( talk) 01:26, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Winkelvi is correct—it's standard that details of children are not included as the details are unimportant news-of-the-day space fillers. Gushing over the sex, name and birth-weight of a baby is fine in general, but it has no encyclopedic value. There are exceptions for cases like Barack Obama where even the family dog may be named, but the general rule is that interesting but unimportant details such as address, phone number, names of children are not included. Johnuniq ( talk) 02:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Any of you are welcome to take this to the BLP Noticeboard. Until then, because this is a BLP article and policy is clear (as well as the consensus in numerous previous discussions on this very subject), the name and all other identifying info should stay out. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 05:49, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
\ Are you really serious? Names of children of notable people are usually reported in their bios, if there is coverage about them in reliable sources. - Cwobeel (talk) 16:37, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Consensus was not reached, nor was it actually sought. The discussion was closed with no consensus or decision noted; the BLP MOS policy per BLPNAME stands. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 20:09, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Caution should be applied when identifying individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event.
When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context.
When deciding whether to include a name, its publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts, should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories.
Consider whether the inclusion of names of living private individuals who are not directly involved in an article's topic adds significant value.
The presumption in favor of privacy is strong in the case of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved, otherwise low-profile persons.
The names of any immediate, ex, or significant family members or any significant relationship of the subject of a BLP may be part of an article, if reliably sourced, subject to editorial discretion that such information is relevant to a reader's complete understanding of the subject.
However, names of family members who are not also notable public figures must be removed from an article if they are not properly sourced.
Choor monster ( talk) 21:09, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Someone start an RfC for Christs sake. Two kinds of pork Makin' Bacon 23:24, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I have fully protected this article so that a consensus can be worked out. Please discuss this at the relevant WP:BLPN listing. Let me know if a consensus is reached that all will adhere to, if you want the protection lifted. If protection expires and there is no resolution I would be perfectly happy to block anybody who adds or removes the disputed material. I would obviously rather it did not come to that. -- John ( talk) 18:42, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
While there is no edit warring currently, there is no consensus on this nor is there "vast precedent" in just one direction. This will likely need to go to a higher level as there is no agreement/consensus possible at this point. Bullying and rude/uncivil behavor doesn't make for consensus. -- Winkelvi ● ✉ ✓ 20:10, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
There is no consensus on this matter. There is much abuse (see dead horse comment above), misrepresentation and lying. Oh, and being annoyed, which I have never seen mentioned in policy. HiLo48 ( talk) 23:00, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
People have tried to explain to you how your interpretation of BLP regarding the names of famous people's children is incorrect. But you simply refuse to listen to any reason on the subject. 01:10, 2 October 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lithistman ( talk • contribs)
← John, may I ask what prompted you to protect this page again? There was no edit warring after it re-opened, just an exchange about a minor edit to the infobox which was withdrawn when the reasoning for the revert was stated. There most certainly is consensus here on the matter of keeping the name in the text of the article as is done everywhere in the encyclopedia. This has already been discussed on BLPN. Two editors taking an outlier position here does not mean there is no consensus here, and we all know that consensus does not mean 100% agreement. There is vast precedent all over the encyclopedia for this, there are excellent reliable sources, and there is consensus to include. Do we really have to go through the whole thing again, just because one editor says he's having "fun" complaining about it, and another has a grossly wrong interpretation of BLP (read above, too many times to post diffs) which previously led him to immediately revert as if this is defamatory material? You protect a page when there's severe edit warring - there was some a few days ago, but notably when the previous protection was lifted, neither of the two editors who think the name should be out removed it, even though they had opportunity to do so. So I thank them for their restraint in not removing the name again, which perhaps means that they accept the reality of the consensus here, or at least that they did not wish to edit war and risk block when clearly the policy that allows an exception to 3RR (defamatory material on a BLP) was not applicable - so why has it been protected again? I reiterate what I and others said above: there was an exchange about the infobox, and it was amicably and quickly resolved, without edit warring. Perhaps you misread that exchange as a continuation of the problem, but I choose to see the lack of removal of the name as a tacit acceptance that although they disagree, there is no consensus or policy or BLPN support for their position, and so they left it alone while repeating their objections here on Talk. They can pursue this where they like, but my understanding of this situation is that it is at the discretion of the editors on a page as to whether they wish to include well-sourced non-defamatory public material such as this, and the editors here have agreed it belongs here (as did many on BLPN, by the way). Please open the page. Tvoz/ talk 02:06, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
The name does not belong in the infobox, according to long-standing Template:infobox person consensus. Winkelvi's edit summary was incorrect/incomplete, but his reversion of my edit was absolutely correct: both children counts and names are allowed. Infobox use of names, however, for children, parents, other relatives, have to be notable. (This does not mean they have an article yet, just that they meet WP:GNG and all that.)
We have all agreed Charlotte is not notable, so there's absolutely nothing to discuss on this matter. My apologies for ignorantly jumping the gun. Choor monster ( talk) 15:53, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
infoplease.com, the on-line successor to the Information Please Almanac, lists in their one-paragraph entry on Chelsea, the name and birthdate of her daughter. Choor monster ( talk) 11:41, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
No, in fact, you have not. You claim one thing (say, BLPNAME), then when that is utterly disproved as an issue, you jump to another (say, RECENTISM), and when that is run to ground, you just utter non sequiturs like "for a multitude of reasons", that are completely devoid of meaning, since your "reasons" have been discredited. What it boils down to is nothing more than "
you don't like it--nothing more, and nothing less.
LHM
ask me a question
18:26, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Oh, and finally, you cover yourself in ridiculousness by questioning whether Chelsea Clinton is actually famous. Your "arguments" are just so nonsensical as to be laughable, if you weren't being so intransigent and tendentious about them.
LHM
ask me a question
18:28, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
undue content and a breach of
Wedding guests were offered a vegan menu and gluten-free cake, as well as beef. Is Chelsea a vegan? If not, I'd say this sentence is not notable. If she is, the sentence should be put in the context that this is either her or her husband's diet. As it stands, it's not really encyclopedic. How hot is the sun? ( talk) 20:38, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Collapsing off-topic and needlessly sarcastic commentary. If you have a recommendation to make regarding the wedding meal info, make it. But this kind of sarcasm and snark accomplishes nothing.
LHM
ask me a question
23:31, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
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I have searched and searched and searched for ONE picture of Chelsea's daughter's face, front on. If someone has one, please post it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.219.44.188 ( talk) 13:55, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Please discuss here before removal of sourced content Shrikanthv ( talk) 05:22, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I think it's important to point out the Geico Gecko interview. She was earning $600,000 dollars a year at NBC News (which is actually $100,000 more than the executive editor at the New York Times) and was criticized by media reporters like Dylan Byers and many others for the interview with the Geico Gecko. Definitely a memorable moment.-- The lorax ( talk) 15:23, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
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I removed the exact dob of a non notable minor. I was reverted with the reason per talk page discussion. Where is that? -- Malerooster ( talk) 05:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:13, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
We seem to be inconsistent about the name we use for her mother. In the lead she is called Hillary Clinton. But in the infobox and the "early life" section she is called Hillary Rodham. IMO it is appropriate for the lead to say Hillary Clinton, since that is what the article about her is now called. But I think the infobox and the text should say Hillary Rodham Clinton. I notice it has been Hillary Rodham for a long time, so I am asking here rather than boldly changing it. Thoughts? -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:56, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
Am curious if Chelsea receives her income from her parent connections and support, or from her academic credentials and accomplishments as most graduates do. She works for a nonprofit, so does she give the same without claiming a tax deduction? Just curious if givers are really givers, or takers as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.73.219.45 ( talk) 17:07, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Somebody added an ancestry chart to the article. User:Tvoz tagged it as "citation needed". Personally I think the section should be deleted. It is not only unreferenced, it is unnecessary. We don't include that kind of information for most biography articles; in fact, we don't include it for her mother or her father! -- MelanieN ( talk) 21:54, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
Material that has been in this article for at least six years was removed because it was deemed "ridiculous - inappropriate", "sappy", nothing out of the ordinary", and that such stories "can be told about every child". First, no, such stories unfortunately cannot be told about every child, and the daughter of a president and potentially two presidents makes her not at all "any child" meaning that her place in her family, and how her birth was viewed by her parents, is relevant and appropriate. While I do not think it is of supreme importance, this speaks to a family dynamic which has been scrutinized and commented on by journalists, biographers, pop psychologists, etc for years. I had edited it down a bit in deference to the initial complaint, re-adding some of it because it fleshes out her "early years" story a bit, and again, has stood the test of time here on this BLP. Removing the edited-down version without any discussion is what is inappropriate. Since as I said, I don't consider this of supreme importance, I'm not going to put it back yet, and am interested in what others think, but would ask editors to discuss rather than undo edits that explain and attempt to take into account what an initial removal of long-standing material was based on. Anyone care to comment? Tvoz/ talk 23:08, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
The abbreviations MPhil and DPhil should be fully spelled out as Master of Philosphy and Doctor of Philosophy the first time they are used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.162.218.153 ( talk) 19:41, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Hey @ Tvoz:, can we keep the Geico Gecko interview? It was singled out by journalists who felt she didn't really earn the $600,000/year pay check for being a Rock Center correspondent? -- The lorax ( talk) 18:44, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
I have removed this from the article:
The quote comes from 2007. I don't think it's particularly helpful for the article which also have quotes from Bill Clinton that are similar that are from closer in time to the events, so I am removing this quote. Knope7 ( talk) 03:19, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
It's very strange that there is a 2008 section regarding her mother's presidential campaign, but no section for the 2016 campaign despite Chelsea Clinton's similar role as a surrogate for her mother's campaign. Calibrador ( talk) 02:40, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
She went to University College, Oxford. Oxford itself isn't the name of any of the universities IN Oxford - a city with 38 Colleges and six Permanent Private Halls. The status of Cambridge is similar. Just putting 'oxford' is quite embarrassing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.56.145 ( talk) 18:32, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
At Oxford, she was a shoe-in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:300A:D09:F500:B5B9:96E7:681F:906C ( talk) 23:43, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
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This article is written by someone working for the Clintons. No mention is made of the likely father and no mention is made of the use of the fund she manages What is "As part of her work, she gives paid speeches to raise money with her fees going directly to the foundation, whose goals relate to improving global health" used for? Certainly not anyone from Haiti — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.23.66.170 ( talk) 18:51, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
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