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In thisdigitized book from 1698, written by a Dutch traveller Cornelis de Bruyn he writes, while on his way to the Pyramids from Cairo (or what he actually referred to as old-Cairo?) and while crossing the Nile river:
Oorspronk der fabel van Charon ’t Gevoelen is aldaar dat die vermaarde schipper Charon hier ter plaatse zynen dienst waargenomen zoude hebben, want de beeken van den Nyl meent men dat aan de oude Egyptenaren stoffe hebben gegeven om de fabelen van de helsche vloeden te verdigten + daar Charon de zielen, nadat ze uit de lichaamen gescheyden waaren, overzette. Die nauwkeurig over dit land hebben geschreven, meenen dat de fabel daaruit spruyt, dat de lichaamen hier aan den anderen oever wierden overgebracht om in of omtrent de pyramiden begraven te werden.
Which chatGPT translates into:
The belief there is that the renowned ferryman Charon would have performed his service at this location, as it is thought that the streams of the Nile provided the ancient Egyptians with material to fabricate the fables of the infernal floods, where Charon ferried the souls once they were separated from their bodies. Those who have written diligently about this land believe that the fable originates from the fact that the bodies were transported to the opposite bank here to be buried in or near the pyramids.
Regarding this sentence near the end of the Charon entry: “The dwarf planet Pluto's largest moon is named Charon, and while not directly named after this figure, it did influence the choice.[10]” A minor (?) grammatical note: What's the antecedent of the pronoun “it” in that sentence?
One web site (among many) has this to say about the name:
Christy’s first thought was to name the new moon in honor of his wife, Char (short for Charlene), but the established international naming rules for astronomical objects prevented this. However, fate intervened: while looking through a book on Greco-Roman mythology, Christy was amazed to discover that the name of the ferryman who piloted dead souls across the River Styx and into Pluto’s realm was named Charon. The name was ideal, melding the official nomenclature requirements with his desire to honor his wife.
Perhaps something could be drawn from that and cited with a reputable published source (?). NickStuy ( talk) 07:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I went ahead and deleted the phrase describing the obolus, which is not in Dante, and added a clarifying sentence to explain why Michelangelo depicts Charon in the Sistine Chapel as a demonic figure beating with an oar the souls in his boat. Also clarified the claim that Charon is the first named figure in Dante (by saying first named mythological figure). Dante sees and names Virgil in canto 2. NickStuy ( talk) 06:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Re: Dante Alighieri also described Charon in his Divine Comedy. He is the same as his Greek counterpart, being paid an obolus to cross Acheron. Not so! Dante makes no reference whatsoever to an obolus. His depiction of Charon is based on Virgil's depiction in Aeneid Book 6. Dante knew no Greek and there were no translations of Greek literature (where Charon appears) available to him. (At most he had medieval summaries of authors such as Homer (where Charon does not appear). I will leave it up to those interested in this entry to make any corrections, but suggest the sentence in question be deleted. More detail might be added by reading Inferno canto 3. NickStuy ( talk) 06:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I am in search of pictures or images of Charon. I want to have my guitar airbrushed with Charon's image. Please email me with pics or links at: the_bellwitch@yahoo.com
Thank you!
If anyone can supply a primary source for the parentage of Charon being Erebus and Nyx, please let me know at jonnewman@yahoo.com
Acheron vs. Styx (mythology) .... I see references to both vis a vis where Charon plied his trade. Can someone provide evidence one way or the other (Wikipedia itself seems in conflict). dml 03:08, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
From Virgil's Aeneid 6.322: “Anchisa generate, deum certissima proles, Cocyti stagna alta vides Stygiamque paludem, di cuius iurare timent et fallere numen. Haec omnis, quam cernis, inops inhumataque turba est; portitor ille Charon; hi, quos vehit unda, sepulti." (“Son of Anchises, offspring of the gods, Yon are Cocytus and the Stygian stream, By whose dread power the gods themselves do fear To take an oath in vain. Here far and wide Thou seest the hapless throng that hath no grave. That boatman Charon bears across the deep Such as be sepulchred with holy care.) Stygian equals "Styx" Text and translation from the Perseus Project. CaveatLector 02:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
According to the Encycylopedia Britanica Online Charon escorted dead souls across both Acheron and Styx. There is no indication of which work uses which River, nor which river is first referenced.
This whole article has been copied from encyclopedia.com's article on Charon. Shame on this "author"...
-- Greasysteve13 14:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
In D’Aulaire’s Book of Greek Myths, there is a river god with the same name, though it doesn't mention a connection with Styx, in fact, I believe it gives an entirely different river. Any takes on this? Therequiembellishere 01:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
In POTC:At Worlds End, It seems as if Davy Jones has Charon's Job, Ferrying the dead to their final resting place. Could this be included in the "In Popular Culture section? EbeneezerSquid 10:18, 29 June 2007 (CST)
Congratulations on citing wikipedia in a wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.129.130 ( talk) 02:58, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Um, I think the section is a little long, and should be relocated to a pop culture section. Anyone agree?-- Romulus ( talk) 22:23, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
In the third paragraph, I edited "to and from" (prepositions missing an object) to "to and fro" (idiom meaning "back and forth") [2008-05-16T22:43:58]. However, it would make more sense as "to and from [destination]" if the error was an omission rather than a misspelling. Does anyone know if the "to and from [destination]" version would be more accurate/appropriate, and if so, what [destination] should read? Memetics ( talk) 07:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
As I understand it the reason that Charon is unshaved and generally a bit grubby (at least in the Aeneid) is because Romans had a tradition of going without washing or shaving for several days to mourn the recently deceased. Since he's eternally ferrying the dead back and fourth, Charon is an eternal state of mourning. At least that's what I was taught Darien Shields ( talk) 04:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Was he or was he not the son of Erebus and Nyx (Nox)? The article gives the impression that it can't be known, while other online articles (like encarta or even wikipedia in different languages) state as a fact that Erebus was his father. 86.34.187.2 ( talk) 01:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Charon's obol was placed in the mouth or on the lips of the dead person. The passage from Callimachus cited in the footnote specifies the mouth (read it in English here, with the Greek available on the previous page). No literary source in antiquity mentions coins on the eyes. The archaeological record produces very rare and disputed instances of a pair of coins that may have been placed on the eyes, but this is not certain. Please see the article on Charon's obol for a thorough discussion of the evidence; see especially the section Coins on the eyes?. Cynwolfe ( talk) 03:48, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
As I agree with this statement, it is known that Catholics took this practice and tweeked it. They would place a bribe to a ferryman, one coin on each eye. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
109.70.67.170 (
talk) 06:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm really not sure how to add references, but on here, its etymology is "fierce brightness": behindthename.com pretty interesting, imo. HoopoeBaijiKite 01:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Where the hell did “In popular culture” section go? And why? It looks like it was deleted by User:TallNapoleon on 2009-05-06 and replaced by “In astronomy” section, without any argumentation of such a major edit. 217.172.21.161 ( talk) 15:58, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Is this the same character who, if he could get someone to take his oar or something, they'd be trapped into taking his job until they could trick another person into it? Or is that someone else?-- Tyranny Sue ( talk) 06:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm not convinced of /ˈkərɒn/ - surely you can't have a stressed schwa in English. Dictionary.com gives /ˈkɛərən, ˈkær-/, is that a good enough source? Lfh ( talk) 17:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Was Chris DeBurgh referring to Charon in that song? Shotguntony ( talk) 02:07, 12 July 2012 (UTC) I came here thanks to the article appearing in Unfriended 2: Dark Web and from diamondbolt's review — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:644:4080:6F10:921:F0:495A:27ED ( talk) 19:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Consensus, supported by the evidence, is that the mythological figure is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC despite the presence of the moon, another topic with considerable long-term significance and page views. Cúchullain t/ c 17:15, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
– Don't really see what other "Charon" could be the primary topic. The moon was clearly named after the god - so were most other things on the disambiguation page. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 21:46, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
As with Talk:Endymion (mythology)#Requested move 7 April 2018 there are many questionable arguments above, see my comments at that other RM. Here I'll just annotate the nom's rationale:
Don't really see what other "Charon" could be the primary topic. The other possibility is that there's no primary topic, in which case the DAB should stay where it is.
The moon was clearly named after the god - so were most other things on the disambiguation page. True but irrelevant. Andrewa ( talk) 07:26, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
So This Page appears in Unfriended 2: Dark web so Nice 2601:644:4080:6F10:98AC:21B7:4AE9:9A0F ( talk) 05:29, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nikitalee02 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Nikitalee02 ( talk) 22:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): BundlesofRoses013 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Bella088.
— Assignment last updated by Rockethound ( talk) 21:47, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
In thisdigitized book from 1698, written by a Dutch traveller Cornelis de Bruyn he writes, while on his way to the Pyramids from Cairo (or what he actually referred to as old-Cairo?) and while crossing the Nile river:
Oorspronk der fabel van Charon ’t Gevoelen is aldaar dat die vermaarde schipper Charon hier ter plaatse zynen dienst waargenomen zoude hebben, want de beeken van den Nyl meent men dat aan de oude Egyptenaren stoffe hebben gegeven om de fabelen van de helsche vloeden te verdigten + daar Charon de zielen, nadat ze uit de lichaamen gescheyden waaren, overzette. Die nauwkeurig over dit land hebben geschreven, meenen dat de fabel daaruit spruyt, dat de lichaamen hier aan den anderen oever wierden overgebracht om in of omtrent de pyramiden begraven te werden.
Which chatGPT translates into:
The belief there is that the renowned ferryman Charon would have performed his service at this location, as it is thought that the streams of the Nile provided the ancient Egyptians with material to fabricate the fables of the infernal floods, where Charon ferried the souls once they were separated from their bodies. Those who have written diligently about this land believe that the fable originates from the fact that the bodies were transported to the opposite bank here to be buried in or near the pyramids.
Regarding this sentence near the end of the Charon entry: “The dwarf planet Pluto's largest moon is named Charon, and while not directly named after this figure, it did influence the choice.[10]” A minor (?) grammatical note: What's the antecedent of the pronoun “it” in that sentence?
One web site (among many) has this to say about the name:
Christy’s first thought was to name the new moon in honor of his wife, Char (short for Charlene), but the established international naming rules for astronomical objects prevented this. However, fate intervened: while looking through a book on Greco-Roman mythology, Christy was amazed to discover that the name of the ferryman who piloted dead souls across the River Styx and into Pluto’s realm was named Charon. The name was ideal, melding the official nomenclature requirements with his desire to honor his wife.
Perhaps something could be drawn from that and cited with a reputable published source (?). NickStuy ( talk) 07:37, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I went ahead and deleted the phrase describing the obolus, which is not in Dante, and added a clarifying sentence to explain why Michelangelo depicts Charon in the Sistine Chapel as a demonic figure beating with an oar the souls in his boat. Also clarified the claim that Charon is the first named figure in Dante (by saying first named mythological figure). Dante sees and names Virgil in canto 2. NickStuy ( talk) 06:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Re: Dante Alighieri also described Charon in his Divine Comedy. He is the same as his Greek counterpart, being paid an obolus to cross Acheron. Not so! Dante makes no reference whatsoever to an obolus. His depiction of Charon is based on Virgil's depiction in Aeneid Book 6. Dante knew no Greek and there were no translations of Greek literature (where Charon appears) available to him. (At most he had medieval summaries of authors such as Homer (where Charon does not appear). I will leave it up to those interested in this entry to make any corrections, but suggest the sentence in question be deleted. More detail might be added by reading Inferno canto 3. NickStuy ( talk) 06:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I am in search of pictures or images of Charon. I want to have my guitar airbrushed with Charon's image. Please email me with pics or links at: the_bellwitch@yahoo.com
Thank you!
If anyone can supply a primary source for the parentage of Charon being Erebus and Nyx, please let me know at jonnewman@yahoo.com
Acheron vs. Styx (mythology) .... I see references to both vis a vis where Charon plied his trade. Can someone provide evidence one way or the other (Wikipedia itself seems in conflict). dml 03:08, 8 May 2004 (UTC)
From Virgil's Aeneid 6.322: “Anchisa generate, deum certissima proles, Cocyti stagna alta vides Stygiamque paludem, di cuius iurare timent et fallere numen. Haec omnis, quam cernis, inops inhumataque turba est; portitor ille Charon; hi, quos vehit unda, sepulti." (“Son of Anchises, offspring of the gods, Yon are Cocytus and the Stygian stream, By whose dread power the gods themselves do fear To take an oath in vain. Here far and wide Thou seest the hapless throng that hath no grave. That boatman Charon bears across the deep Such as be sepulchred with holy care.) Stygian equals "Styx" Text and translation from the Perseus Project. CaveatLector 02:11, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
According to the Encycylopedia Britanica Online Charon escorted dead souls across both Acheron and Styx. There is no indication of which work uses which River, nor which river is first referenced.
This whole article has been copied from encyclopedia.com's article on Charon. Shame on this "author"...
-- Greasysteve13 14:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
In D’Aulaire’s Book of Greek Myths, there is a river god with the same name, though it doesn't mention a connection with Styx, in fact, I believe it gives an entirely different river. Any takes on this? Therequiembellishere 01:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
In POTC:At Worlds End, It seems as if Davy Jones has Charon's Job, Ferrying the dead to their final resting place. Could this be included in the "In Popular Culture section? EbeneezerSquid 10:18, 29 June 2007 (CST)
Congratulations on citing wikipedia in a wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.129.130 ( talk) 02:58, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Um, I think the section is a little long, and should be relocated to a pop culture section. Anyone agree?-- Romulus ( talk) 22:23, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
In the third paragraph, I edited "to and from" (prepositions missing an object) to "to and fro" (idiom meaning "back and forth") [2008-05-16T22:43:58]. However, it would make more sense as "to and from [destination]" if the error was an omission rather than a misspelling. Does anyone know if the "to and from [destination]" version would be more accurate/appropriate, and if so, what [destination] should read? Memetics ( talk) 07:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
As I understand it the reason that Charon is unshaved and generally a bit grubby (at least in the Aeneid) is because Romans had a tradition of going without washing or shaving for several days to mourn the recently deceased. Since he's eternally ferrying the dead back and fourth, Charon is an eternal state of mourning. At least that's what I was taught Darien Shields ( talk) 04:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Was he or was he not the son of Erebus and Nyx (Nox)? The article gives the impression that it can't be known, while other online articles (like encarta or even wikipedia in different languages) state as a fact that Erebus was his father. 86.34.187.2 ( talk) 01:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Charon's obol was placed in the mouth or on the lips of the dead person. The passage from Callimachus cited in the footnote specifies the mouth (read it in English here, with the Greek available on the previous page). No literary source in antiquity mentions coins on the eyes. The archaeological record produces very rare and disputed instances of a pair of coins that may have been placed on the eyes, but this is not certain. Please see the article on Charon's obol for a thorough discussion of the evidence; see especially the section Coins on the eyes?. Cynwolfe ( talk) 03:48, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
As I agree with this statement, it is known that Catholics took this practice and tweeked it. They would place a bribe to a ferryman, one coin on each eye. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
109.70.67.170 (
talk) 06:40, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm really not sure how to add references, but on here, its etymology is "fierce brightness": behindthename.com pretty interesting, imo. HoopoeBaijiKite 01:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Where the hell did “In popular culture” section go? And why? It looks like it was deleted by User:TallNapoleon on 2009-05-06 and replaced by “In astronomy” section, without any argumentation of such a major edit. 217.172.21.161 ( talk) 15:58, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Is this the same character who, if he could get someone to take his oar or something, they'd be trapped into taking his job until they could trick another person into it? Or is that someone else?-- Tyranny Sue ( talk) 06:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm not convinced of /ˈkərɒn/ - surely you can't have a stressed schwa in English. Dictionary.com gives /ˈkɛərən, ˈkær-/, is that a good enough source? Lfh ( talk) 17:53, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Was Chris DeBurgh referring to Charon in that song? Shotguntony ( talk) 02:07, 12 July 2012 (UTC) I came here thanks to the article appearing in Unfriended 2: Dark Web and from diamondbolt's review — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:644:4080:6F10:921:F0:495A:27ED ( talk) 19:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. Consensus, supported by the evidence, is that the mythological figure is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC despite the presence of the moon, another topic with considerable long-term significance and page views. Cúchullain t/ c 17:15, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
– Don't really see what other "Charon" could be the primary topic. The moon was clearly named after the god - so were most other things on the disambiguation page. ZXCVBNM ( TALK) 21:46, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
As with Talk:Endymion (mythology)#Requested move 7 April 2018 there are many questionable arguments above, see my comments at that other RM. Here I'll just annotate the nom's rationale:
Don't really see what other "Charon" could be the primary topic. The other possibility is that there's no primary topic, in which case the DAB should stay where it is.
The moon was clearly named after the god - so were most other things on the disambiguation page. True but irrelevant. Andrewa ( talk) 07:26, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
So This Page appears in Unfriended 2: Dark web so Nice 2601:644:4080:6F10:98AC:21B7:4AE9:9A0F ( talk) 05:29, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nikitalee02 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Nikitalee02 ( talk) 22:07, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): BundlesofRoses013 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Bella088.
— Assignment last updated by Rockethound ( talk) 21:47, 20 March 2023 (UTC)