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![]() | A news item involving Charles Durning was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 27 December 2012. | ![]() |
I was watching Everwood this evening, and I saw Mr. Durning on it. He looks VERY different than he did since O Brother, Where Art Thou?...has he had some sort of stroke or heart attack or some kind of palsy that's affected his speech? -- 65.190.163.190 02:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I have known of Charles Durning as an accomplished actor for many years. However, I just recently found out about his heroism during WWII which included being in the first wave on Omaha Beach at Normandy, being one of the few survivors of the Malmedy Massacre and being awarded the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. Mr. Durning, my gratitude and utmost respect go out to you.
I added this piece of information: War Hero on Walk of Fame by Solvej Schou ( Associated Press). Asteriks ( talk) 18:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm reluctant to cast any doubt on Mr. Durning's service, but the details are so vague and contradictory that they bear some examination.
Again, am reluctant to cast aspersions, but not many men advertise their valor awards, but refuse to clearly state what units they served in. It's a shame he is not more forthcoming; such vagueness merely arouses suspicion. 67.181.14.236 ( talk) 09:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I've removed this from the article after his admission of nightmares: "which is common among veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress"
Unless the person that added this is a medical doctor with Mr. Durning under his care (and has consent to post it to the internet!) I don't see this as accurate or fair. Nightmares are indeed an indicator of PTSD, but not everyone who has experienced stress or has nightmares is suffering from a "disorder". Unless there is a source that indicates Mr. Durning has a disorder, suggesting he has one simply because he admits to nightmares is false and misleading. Michael Dorosh 14:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
An editor made this edit that accuses Durning of exaggerating his military record. This record will need to be linked on this talk page so that other editors can verify this before we can allow this kind of character assassination. The charge of exaggerating one's military record is a very serious one (see Jeremy Michael Boorda), and needs to be backed up by evidence. -- rogerd 12:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I will put an {{NPOV}} template at the top of the page. I do belive that the edit should stand, however. I have put some editing only text above the section warning editors not to edit that area. Does anyone think that we should request the page to be locked? Kaspazes talk 13:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
User:Monkeyzpop has made an edit to this article about some statement that Burt Reynolds supposedly made on a TV show, that he is disputing. There is no reference to the Reynolds quote, so it is not really relevant to the article. Just because someone else makes a statement about the subject of this article, doesn't mean that it deserves mention here. Also, the alleged false statement was the Durning was the 2nd most decorated soldier of WWII, which Monkeyzpop disputes. If such a trivial thing deserves mention (which IMO it doesn't), then you would need to provide a reference that someone else is the 2nd most decorated soldier of WWII. But then again, Reynolds is hardly an authority on military history, so what he says about Charles Durning's war record is very trivial, even if the editor could find a reference. -- rogerd ( talk) 02:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I had the priviledge and honor to meet Charles Durning some years ago, when I was on The Los Angeles St. Patrick's Day Committee, and we made him "Grand Marshall" for the parade in Hollywood. At that time,in my pre-understanding of conversations I had with his spouse, Mr. Durning did not like to discuss his involvement in the landing at Omaha Beach that fateful day with The 1st. Division. What I know now, was and is still a missed opportunity for us to discuss this event, because like Mr. Durning, my Grandfather, Brigadier General, Norman Cota was an assistant Commander of the 29th. Division, and a former Chief of Staff for the 1st. Division. He was one of the military masterminds of The Invasion of Normandy that also landed at Omaha Beach. Being a fellow member of The Screen Actors Guild with Mr. Durning, I hope one day to meet with him again. Alfred "Ed Moch" Cota. Aedwardmoch ( talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)Aedwardmoch Aedwardmoch ( talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
There are different ways to calculate "most decorated" and it's exacerbated by the fact that some awards are delayed by decades. But, there is no way Durning is the second most decorated hero of WWII, see Audie Murphy and Matt Urban. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
i'm confused because it seems that three purple hearts are claimed, but only two instances of being wounded are cited. chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.70.124 ( talk) 11:29, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
Charles Durning was presented with the French Legion of Honor on April 22, 2008 (last week). The ceremony took place in Los Angeles and the presenter was Philippe Larrieu, Consul General of France. Both his war record and his acting career were mentioned. 68.124.153.86 ( talk) 00:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC) Gerard
Other than his wartime experiences, the article makes no mention of Charles Durning's career pre 1973. I'd be interested to learn how he came into show business - his turn in "The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" shows him to be a gifted dancer. Anyone have any further information ??? David T Tokyo ( talk) 05:40, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
This is a major hole in the article. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:12, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I realize it's no shame to have post traumatic stress disorder, but I think that any such assertions in an article must be sourced, as per BLP. Same for passage saying he was hospitalized for physical and "mental" wounds. Stetsonharry ( talk) 22:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
There was some discussion a few months ago about whether or not Durning was a survivor of the Malmedy massacre. I wonder whether it might be able to get some rock solid sources on this. The French government apparently issued a statement mentioning Malmedy, but the closest I can come is this [1]. But then I found a book in Google Books on actors serving in the military (Duty, Honor, Applause) that talks about Durning's service in the Rangers, says some of his fellow rangers were killed at Malmedy but says nothing about his escaping. [2]. Further thoughts on this would be helpful. Stetsonharry ( talk) 21:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I think everybody's raised good points. I tend to agree with David T Tokyo, but I'd feel better if the declaration appeared in a better source than the one we have, preferably an official one. I've posted on this in the Military History WikiProject in the hope that maybe some better sourcing can be found. Stetsonharry ( talk) 20:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
If there's no objection, I suggest inserting a reference to him as a Malmedy survivor based on bhcnp.org. One possible explanation for his not being mentioned on this, or vocal generally on World War II, is that I found him listed in Halliwell's Filmgoers Companion as born in 1933. This may have been a mistake or perhaps not, but it would explain why an actor, in an age sensitive business, would not want to publicize a World War II war record. Stetsonharry ( talk) 21:43, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Well I should maybe have taken part earlier to this discussion. I must acknowledge that several websites clearly state that durning was at the Baugnez crossroad when the massacre occured. This seems even to have publicly said by the French consul in LA during an official ceremony that took place a few years ago. And yet I am still very far from being convinced. Not because I wuld think that Mr. Durning did not do his duty during the war. But simply because I am interested in the Malmedy massacre for several years, which means I have spend much time on the question and read a lot of books. Never has Mr. Durning's name been quoted in any single book I have read. Furthermore one should keep in mind that all survivors to the massacre, i.e. the men who were in the pasture and who managed to escape the slaughter are all identified and have been interrogated by the US Army as their testimonies where the first material on which the judges would rely during the process. Again, Charles Durning is nowhere to be found among these men. In that respect I would draw you attention to the fact that one should make a distinction between the survivors, i.e. the men in the pasture, and the other men who escaped the massacre because for one or other reason they were not at the crossroads when and where they were supposed to be when the massacre occured (I think for instance to a man the artillery observer battalion who had been left in Malmedy because he suddenly fell ill: he escaped the massacre but is not a survivor). Other men could probably have the same luck. They are not survivors although they escaped the massacre.
Earlier in the discussion somebody (rightfully) pointed out General Reynold's sentence "Few of these accounts are based on fact, and most are embellished and inaccurate". I would however draw you attention to the fact that this sentence merely concerns the way the event has been related in many books, i.e. the relation of the facts, how things happened. One one side they are based on the testimonies made by the American survivors, which must been seen as relations made by guys who had escaped to an almost promissed death, who were under shock, often wounded and who had some difficulties to make a coherent relation of the facts. On the other side there are based on what the Germans say (at least those who are ready to admit they actually were there: curiously if you listen at the men of Peiper, almost all were miles away from that particular place a that particular time): most of the times, this is presented as an unfortunate accident due to the fact that some US PoWs had tried to escape. Of course all those who have writen on that massacre have emphasised one or other point of view according to their preference: som tried to whitewash the Germans others of course have pointed out how bestial they have been. The statement of Reynolds does however not mean that the name of the survivors are wrong or unknown. I really think that this aspect of the massacre is well documented and available to every historian.
Finally, this story about Durning present at the crossroad is running on several websites since many years. I furthermore noticed that these websites often copy that material from one to the other (which means nobody actually checks the accuracy of that information). The fact is mentioned, but a reliable source (e.g. a book writen by an historian, for instance) is never goven by these websites. I realize that one will oppose the statement of the French consul. Frankly speaking I have doubts about this. Has he really said this. I could find no trace of this on the website of the French consulate. But it should be possible to ask them whether they have kept a record of this speach. On the other hand I am far from being convinced that the fact this would have been said by the French consul (if it was the case) make it the revealed truth. Can we really exclude that the speach could have writen by a lazzy (or gullible) employee who could simply have made a copy/paste of what he had found on a website without making any check?
In conclusion I still have strong doubts about this story and I think that one should check for more reliable sources before writing that Mr. Durning is a Malmedy massacre survivor. -- Lebob-BE ( talk) 20:11, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
12:09, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
<Everybody knows that official statement doesn't necessarily mean truth.>
I'm afraid that's where your argument runs out of steam. On that basis everything ever quoted is potentially false - a ridiculous proposition.
I repeat one last time, if you "know" - as you insist you do - why don't you contact the French Embassy and get them to retract the statement? I can't understand why you're so emphatic here, but so unwilling to prove your case in public. Go for it - its obviously a field of study that you enjoy and you have the chance to make your name. Set the record straight and, once you have, we can revise it here. David T Tokyo ( talk) 16:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Morning reports dated December 18th 1944 (see http://m.web2carz.com/article/article.php?articleId=2097) have since surfaced showing Durning assigned to the 12th Replacement Depot in England. The Malmedy Massacre took place on December 17, 1944 in Belgium. According to official documents he was in the following outfits after returning to duty.
12th Repl. Depot/ Repl. Co. X176A...Dec. 18, 1944 - Dec. 31, 1945
9th Repl. Depot/Det. #42 .................Dec. 31, 1944 - Jan.9, 1945 (France) 385th AAA Bn. Battery A .................Jan. 9, 1945 - Feb. 13, 1945 (Belgium) - Only C and D batteries received battle credit for the Bulge. 16th Repl. Depot / 88th Det................Feb. 13, 1945 - April 8, 1945 - Durning trained to become an MP and Qualified for the M-1 Rifle, on March 5, 1945.
17th Repl. Depot - April 8, 1945.
6991 Guard Company. Durning's unit guarded German POW's in Krippe, Germany until after VE Day, June 23, 1945. 159th Regiment. Durning was temporarily assigned to the Special Services (entertaining troops) before shipping home with the 398th Regiment in January, 1946.
With regards to the re-assignment of soldiers - while it is common knowledge that the replacement system funneled troops from unit to unit after being wounded, they were still moved to units with respect to their training. The question of why a trained rifleman (if that is what he was on D-Day) would suddenly end up in a field artillery observation battalion (if that is what happened) on 17 December is still pertinent. It is possible that a riflemen might be reclassified as a driver due to the extent of his injuries and be given limited duties in a FAOB, so it is not inconceivable, but the point here is that there needs to be some reliable evidence. The French document being discussed is not. Not only has no text been provided from this document, but it sounds like the entire thing was cribbed from this very article. The suggestion that it should now be considered "definitive" is laughable, given that its origins are completely spurious. 139.48.25.60 ( talk) 18:33, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Some insight (OR) This information isn't currently usable in the article itself, since I'm not aware of a published source that can be cited. But while I don't know Durning and have only met him once, he is close with several close friends of mine, and I asked them to ask him about the Malmedy thing. Durning does not claim to have been a Malmedy survivor. He describes in detail being captured by Germans and escaping, but NOT as part of the Malmedy events--not even at the same period of time. Unfortunately, Durning is very frail and his conversation is a bit wandering and imprecise. But he definitely does not claim to be a Malmedy survivor. I hope to get some kind of interview with him that can be published in order to cite these things, but with his current condition, I'm not sure it can be accomplished. Monkeyzpop ( talk) 01:53, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
we all have watched the cuban crime rags to ritches film with al pacino , i am personnely convinced that charles durning done a voice over for an emigration officer at the early stages of the film watch the start and the questions about the tattoo ,,,,if this is not charles durning voice then im an aardvaark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.160.21 ( talk) 03:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Every time I watch Star Wars episode IV (1977), I am certain I see Charles Durning as a foot soldier, Trying to defend the ship as Princess Leia records her message to Obi Wan in R2D2. It's right at the beginning of the movie. Is it him, or someone who really looks like him? He is not credited for being in Star Wars at IMDB. Wedinm ( talk) 21:22, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the lengthy Malmedy survivor? discussion above, today's AP story on Mr. Durning's death says he was "captured in the Battle of the Bulge and survived a massacre of prisoners." See: http://news.yahoo.com/durning-king-character-actors-dies-nyc-075353360.html
Sca ( talk) 14:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi,
While the article notes there appears to be some confusion at Durning's war record (which unit he was with at any particular moment etc), I think the Third Army [art needs to be clarified. Durning stated he took part in the D-Day landings, and the article notes he was with 1st Infantry. The American D-Day beach landings were under the command of US 1st Army, and the 1st Infantry was part of the First Army until - afaik - until the end of the war in Europe. So when was he a member of Third Army, during or after the war? EnigmaMcmxc ( talk) 13:23, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
It seems to me we should be able to track down (and then link to) Durning's Silver Star citation, which would provide date, circumstances and probably unit of assignment at the time. But some quick Google searches, including this database of citations: http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/04_SS/2_WWII/indexes/army/Army-D.html does not contain the name Charles Durning. The rest of the Wikipedia article on World War II service is, as others have noted here, quite inconsistent. I'm beginning to wonder about the veracity of Mr Durning's World War II story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deemery ( talk • contribs) 16:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
In 1943 you joined the army, enlisting as an Army Ranger. Following your training period in 1943, you were sent to England in February of the following year. On D-Day, you took part in the invasion at Omaha Beach, landing early in the day with a battalion of Rangers, alongside the First Infantry Division.
[1](No mention made of service with an antiaircraft unit)
References
In populating the Infobox, I made the assumption that Frances is Charles' sister because of the spelling of the name (instead of Francis), based on my experience (admittedly OR) and "Frances is a human name, the feminine version of Francis." at Frances (disambiguation). Now, the Early life section has been written in a way that claims Frances is a brother, though the cited source (IMDb) does not specify. Unless someone has a contradictory source, or different experience with the Frances/Francis spelling/gender distinction, I believe the section should assume she is a sister. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 23:36, 28 December 2012 (UTC) (Edited 23:39, 28 December 2012 (UTC))
Oldbubblehead ( talk) 23:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I have received a copy of Durning's military records from the National Archives. Before I make any changes to his page, I have asked for some clarification from the Wikipedia powers that be. Wikipedia says no primary sources and the military record is a primary source. Unfortunatley, the secondary sources have most of his info wrong. Oldbubblehead ( talk) 06:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Kudos to Oldbubblehead for excellent original source efforts! The "confusion" regarding Mr. Durning's service is far more extensive than has been touched on here. A few additional points.
- Mr. During supposedly told a close friend that the reason he was transferred to the Rangers was because he hit an officer, and was therefore given the choice of either Leavenworth or the Rangers. [4] Given the scores of thousands of trained infantry replacements prepositioned in Britain in anticipation of D-Day casualties (over 88,000 replacements of all types had been 'stockpiled' in the UK by 7 Jun 44), it defies belief that the Rangers would accept a last minute replacement who was not even infantry qualified. And the Rangers were not a dumping ground for disciplinary problems.
- According to another source, Durning and 12 others were levied out of C/386 AAA/AW on 23 May 44, just two weeks before D-Day and assigned to the 17th Replacement Depot; he arrived in Normandy still assigned to a detachment of that Depot (as Old bubblehead noted). It isn't clear if he were a replacement en route to a line unit, or a member of the replacement detachment's cadre when he was wounded in Normandy on 15 Jun (the initial replacement detachments were displacing to operate from Normandy during this same week). [5]
- Should note that at the time Mr. Durning would have served with the 386th AAA (AW) Bn (he joined the unit while still stateside and he was levied out on 23 May 44 . . . before D-Day), it and the Third Army were still in England, not yet having been in combat.
- After being wounded in Normandy, Mr. Durning was declared fit for duty on 6 Dec and transferred to the 10th Replacement Depot (in England) on 12 Dec 44. The Battle of the Bulge started on 16 Dec 44, and the Malmedy massacre happened on 17 Dec 44. So,
There is a significant question as to who he served with upon returning to the Continent.
- Are we supposed to believe - as some accounts hold - that after being levied out of the 386th AAA (AW) Bn, after being sent to Normandy as a replacement, after being wounded and after spending five months in a hospital recovering, that Mr. Durning returned back to the very same 386th AAA (AW) Bn he joined in '43? Of all the thousands of units in the ETO? Bubblehead, do Mr. Durning's record throw any light on this point?
- On the other hand, if he were assigned to the 398th Inf Regt upon discharge from the hospital - as most accounts reflect - that raises even more serious questions. They were fighting at Bitche, France, 200+ kilometers from Malmedy at the time of the Massacre. Worse, the 398th's own regimental history of its participation in WWII has a list of all its medal awardees; Mr. Durning is not listed as earning any medal of any kind with that unit. Not even a Bronze Star, much less a Silver Star.
- At least one account says he was assigned to the 159th Infantry Regiment. The problem here is that this regiment arrived in the ETO very late (mid-March 45), and was plugged into the then-reconstituting 106th Infantry Division to replace one of the two regiments destroyed during the Bulge. By the time the 106th was ready to resume combat operations (25 April 45) the war was winding down (VE Day was just two weeks later) and the division was relegated to running POW camps rather than fighting as an infantry division. It is hard to see where Mr. Durning would have earned a Silver Star with this unit.
- While many individual service records were indeed destroyed by fire, the General Orders which issued Silver Stars were stored at other locations - such as in the unit files - that have been archived at other facilities. The inability of anyone, to include his family, to produce these General Orders, or even cite the GO#, must arouse curiosity, to put it mildly. While Oldbubblehead's research apparently verifies the Silver Star, the issue will not be put to bed until the GO (with its citation extract) can be located. After all, few PFCs who earn the Silver Star remain as PFCs for long.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Mr. Durning's 'war record' merely consists of his own assertions (which varied greatly over the years) or retellings of his assertions, as understood or embellished by others. There are no original sources, official documents or corroborating accounts by those he served with that validate his stories. And there's the weakness in Wiki; the burden of proof should be on those making assertions of fact; instead, Wiki gives credence to unsubstantiated, possibly self-serving claims made by individuals, that are only bolstered by second and third hand retellings of that same man's stories. I would hope that the editors of this page would at least mention that there is controversy surrounding the many versions of his wartime service and that official records are at odds with many points. That at least would acknowledge the elephant in the room. We don't have to resolve the discrepancies, but we should at least note them. The current article, which avoids all discussion of these questions of fact, appears dedicated to burnishing and protecting his image, which seems a POV violation. I'd also hope that other identified incorrect entries be removed from the article, such as earning 3 Puprple Hearts (he earned just one); serving with the 1st Division (he did not) and receiving campaign credit for the Battle of the Bulge (Ardennes Campaign - which, again, he did not); Oldbubblehead's research has proven those elements invalid. Again, kudos to Oldbubblehead. 98.255.89.22 ( talk) 09:00, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
Oldbubblehead. Don't know whether you have seen this discussion of Mr. Durning's service:
http://nmisscommentor.com/random-firings/charles-durning-obit-in-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-126171
Steve Karras - who wrote the web2carz article - joined the discussion and provided additional data from his research. He noted that 1) It appears Durning did not leave the replacement system till March 44 (well after Malmedy); 2) Durning was nominally assigned to the 159th Inf Regt, then transferred to the 398th Inf Regt when the former was shipped stateside in the Fall of 45; 3)Although he was nominally assigned to those infantry regiments, he actually was on temporary duty with the 20th Special Services Bn (an entertainment unit); and 5) Mr. Karras says he knows for a fact that Arlington has cut a new headstone for Durning which omits the Bronze Star medal and two of his supposed Purple Hearts.
He also points out that During's records only mention Silver Star, not Silever Star Medal. As you know, that is a critical difference. The Service Stars (or campaign stars or battle stars) came in bronze or silver. That can cause a number of types of confusion. In the past I've seen folks read an entry that said 'Bronze SS'and interpret it as the man earned both a Bronze Star Medal and a Silver Star Medal, when in fact it just denoted a single bronze Service Star for a campaign ribbon. 98.255.89.22 ( talk) 00:56, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
I've received the docs from Oldbubblehead (tnx!) and will get the relevant/readable pages uploaded ASAP. WRT the EIB/CIB, block 31 says "M1 Rifle Ex 165 5 Mar 45". Can someone decode this?
Also, in block 55, "ASR Score (2 Sep 45) 61"?
Total mustering out pay was $300 – $100 was paid at the time. The worksheet shows (additionally) Foreign Service Pay of $128.43 for the period 1 Dec 45 to 24 or 26 Jan 46 – $70–72/month depending on how it was pro-rated.
Block 36 shows arrival in the ETO on 19 Feb 44 and departure 8 Jan 46. It also shows wounded 29 Jun 44, which is incorrect in comparison with all the med records.
Given the manual, handwritten nature of documentation at the time, and the huge growth of forces, it's not at all surprising to me that administrative paperwork was less than accurate. Thinking about how veterans of that era typically talk about the Army with regard to administrative matters only confirms this feeling that such records may be largely inaccurate. It's entirely possible that Durning (or someone on his behalf) asked for (and obtained) corrections to the original records in the time since his discharge, explaining the additional awards in the 2002 summary and the letter from 2008. I'm guessing the latter was in response to Durning wanting to clarify things in the time leading up to his award from the French on 22 April. Perhaps we can look forward one day to the family releasing some of his personal correspondence that may shed further light. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 12:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I am proposing the following as a new section on the Charles Durning page:
"Controversy Surrounding Military Service -
Charles Durning served his country with honor and with great personal sacrifice. We owe him a debt of gratitude as we do the many other World War II veterans who served alongside him. Sadly, Durning made a number of statements during his lifetime and was present when statements were made about his military service which cannot be reconciled with the undisputed facts in his military records. Mr. Steve Karras, among other researchers, has accessed primary sources such as Durning’s discharge papers, his medical records, unit personnel rosters and morning reports, Army General Orders, and other records, as well as secondary sources such as unit official histories, to assemble an accurate record of Durning’s military experiences. Arlington National Cemetery has acknowledged some of these discrepancies and is in the process of re-cutting Durning’s headstone. [Ref:
http://www.web2carz.com/people/who-you-know/2097/charles-durnings-war-heroism-exaggeration-fabrication]."
Oldbubblehead (
talk)
04:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I've uploaded the following scans of relevant docs:
(still researching correct license and category tagging). —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 00:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
More Durning documents have turned up. A report from the 12th Replacement Depot has him in England on December 20th, 1944. This is four days after the start of the Battle of the Bulge and three days after the Malmedy Massacre. Oldbubblehead ( talk) 06:39, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
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There's no reason to display the medals or decorations he is said to have received. There are links to articles on the medals with pictures of them there. -- Chuck Baggett ( talk) 02:48, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
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Recent edits have removed a reference while asserting a claim "from IMDb" about Mr Durning's ancestry. IMDb is not considered to be a reliable source since it is mainly user-edited - just like Wikipedia. Let's discuss the editing here please. Shearonink ( talk) 19:53, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Not so far as I can tell, information does not appear in cited souces. Discuss here please. Shearonink ( talk) 18:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
The VA says he was at Malmedy
"During the Battle of the Bulge, Germans captured Durning. He was one of only a few soldiers to survive the Malmedy massacre when German soldiers opened fire on nearly 90 prisoners of war. For his injuries, Durning received his second Purple Heart." https://news.va.gov/98192/veteranoftheday-army-veteran-charles-durning/
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![]() | A news item involving Charles Durning was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 27 December 2012. | ![]() |
I was watching Everwood this evening, and I saw Mr. Durning on it. He looks VERY different than he did since O Brother, Where Art Thou?...has he had some sort of stroke or heart attack or some kind of palsy that's affected his speech? -- 65.190.163.190 02:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I have known of Charles Durning as an accomplished actor for many years. However, I just recently found out about his heroism during WWII which included being in the first wave on Omaha Beach at Normandy, being one of the few survivors of the Malmedy Massacre and being awarded the Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. Mr. Durning, my gratitude and utmost respect go out to you.
I added this piece of information: War Hero on Walk of Fame by Solvej Schou ( Associated Press). Asteriks ( talk) 18:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm reluctant to cast any doubt on Mr. Durning's service, but the details are so vague and contradictory that they bear some examination.
Again, am reluctant to cast aspersions, but not many men advertise their valor awards, but refuse to clearly state what units they served in. It's a shame he is not more forthcoming; such vagueness merely arouses suspicion. 67.181.14.236 ( talk) 09:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I've removed this from the article after his admission of nightmares: "which is common among veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress"
Unless the person that added this is a medical doctor with Mr. Durning under his care (and has consent to post it to the internet!) I don't see this as accurate or fair. Nightmares are indeed an indicator of PTSD, but not everyone who has experienced stress or has nightmares is suffering from a "disorder". Unless there is a source that indicates Mr. Durning has a disorder, suggesting he has one simply because he admits to nightmares is false and misleading. Michael Dorosh 14:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
An editor made this edit that accuses Durning of exaggerating his military record. This record will need to be linked on this talk page so that other editors can verify this before we can allow this kind of character assassination. The charge of exaggerating one's military record is a very serious one (see Jeremy Michael Boorda), and needs to be backed up by evidence. -- rogerd 12:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I will put an {{NPOV}} template at the top of the page. I do belive that the edit should stand, however. I have put some editing only text above the section warning editors not to edit that area. Does anyone think that we should request the page to be locked? Kaspazes talk 13:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
User:Monkeyzpop has made an edit to this article about some statement that Burt Reynolds supposedly made on a TV show, that he is disputing. There is no reference to the Reynolds quote, so it is not really relevant to the article. Just because someone else makes a statement about the subject of this article, doesn't mean that it deserves mention here. Also, the alleged false statement was the Durning was the 2nd most decorated soldier of WWII, which Monkeyzpop disputes. If such a trivial thing deserves mention (which IMO it doesn't), then you would need to provide a reference that someone else is the 2nd most decorated soldier of WWII. But then again, Reynolds is hardly an authority on military history, so what he says about Charles Durning's war record is very trivial, even if the editor could find a reference. -- rogerd ( talk) 02:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I had the priviledge and honor to meet Charles Durning some years ago, when I was on The Los Angeles St. Patrick's Day Committee, and we made him "Grand Marshall" for the parade in Hollywood. At that time,in my pre-understanding of conversations I had with his spouse, Mr. Durning did not like to discuss his involvement in the landing at Omaha Beach that fateful day with The 1st. Division. What I know now, was and is still a missed opportunity for us to discuss this event, because like Mr. Durning, my Grandfather, Brigadier General, Norman Cota was an assistant Commander of the 29th. Division, and a former Chief of Staff for the 1st. Division. He was one of the military masterminds of The Invasion of Normandy that also landed at Omaha Beach. Being a fellow member of The Screen Actors Guild with Mr. Durning, I hope one day to meet with him again. Alfred "Ed Moch" Cota. Aedwardmoch ( talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)Aedwardmoch Aedwardmoch ( talk) 05:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
There are different ways to calculate "most decorated" and it's exacerbated by the fact that some awards are delayed by decades. But, there is no way Durning is the second most decorated hero of WWII, see Audie Murphy and Matt Urban. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
i'm confused because it seems that three purple hearts are claimed, but only two instances of being wounded are cited. chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.179.70.124 ( talk) 11:29, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
Charles Durning was presented with the French Legion of Honor on April 22, 2008 (last week). The ceremony took place in Los Angeles and the presenter was Philippe Larrieu, Consul General of France. Both his war record and his acting career were mentioned. 68.124.153.86 ( talk) 00:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC) Gerard
Other than his wartime experiences, the article makes no mention of Charles Durning's career pre 1973. I'd be interested to learn how he came into show business - his turn in "The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" shows him to be a gifted dancer. Anyone have any further information ??? David T Tokyo ( talk) 05:40, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
This is a major hole in the article. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:12, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I realize it's no shame to have post traumatic stress disorder, but I think that any such assertions in an article must be sourced, as per BLP. Same for passage saying he was hospitalized for physical and "mental" wounds. Stetsonharry ( talk) 22:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
There was some discussion a few months ago about whether or not Durning was a survivor of the Malmedy massacre. I wonder whether it might be able to get some rock solid sources on this. The French government apparently issued a statement mentioning Malmedy, but the closest I can come is this [1]. But then I found a book in Google Books on actors serving in the military (Duty, Honor, Applause) that talks about Durning's service in the Rangers, says some of his fellow rangers were killed at Malmedy but says nothing about his escaping. [2]. Further thoughts on this would be helpful. Stetsonharry ( talk) 21:09, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I think everybody's raised good points. I tend to agree with David T Tokyo, but I'd feel better if the declaration appeared in a better source than the one we have, preferably an official one. I've posted on this in the Military History WikiProject in the hope that maybe some better sourcing can be found. Stetsonharry ( talk) 20:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
If there's no objection, I suggest inserting a reference to him as a Malmedy survivor based on bhcnp.org. One possible explanation for his not being mentioned on this, or vocal generally on World War II, is that I found him listed in Halliwell's Filmgoers Companion as born in 1933. This may have been a mistake or perhaps not, but it would explain why an actor, in an age sensitive business, would not want to publicize a World War II war record. Stetsonharry ( talk) 21:43, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Well I should maybe have taken part earlier to this discussion. I must acknowledge that several websites clearly state that durning was at the Baugnez crossroad when the massacre occured. This seems even to have publicly said by the French consul in LA during an official ceremony that took place a few years ago. And yet I am still very far from being convinced. Not because I wuld think that Mr. Durning did not do his duty during the war. But simply because I am interested in the Malmedy massacre for several years, which means I have spend much time on the question and read a lot of books. Never has Mr. Durning's name been quoted in any single book I have read. Furthermore one should keep in mind that all survivors to the massacre, i.e. the men who were in the pasture and who managed to escape the slaughter are all identified and have been interrogated by the US Army as their testimonies where the first material on which the judges would rely during the process. Again, Charles Durning is nowhere to be found among these men. In that respect I would draw you attention to the fact that one should make a distinction between the survivors, i.e. the men in the pasture, and the other men who escaped the massacre because for one or other reason they were not at the crossroads when and where they were supposed to be when the massacre occured (I think for instance to a man the artillery observer battalion who had been left in Malmedy because he suddenly fell ill: he escaped the massacre but is not a survivor). Other men could probably have the same luck. They are not survivors although they escaped the massacre.
Earlier in the discussion somebody (rightfully) pointed out General Reynold's sentence "Few of these accounts are based on fact, and most are embellished and inaccurate". I would however draw you attention to the fact that this sentence merely concerns the way the event has been related in many books, i.e. the relation of the facts, how things happened. One one side they are based on the testimonies made by the American survivors, which must been seen as relations made by guys who had escaped to an almost promissed death, who were under shock, often wounded and who had some difficulties to make a coherent relation of the facts. On the other side there are based on what the Germans say (at least those who are ready to admit they actually were there: curiously if you listen at the men of Peiper, almost all were miles away from that particular place a that particular time): most of the times, this is presented as an unfortunate accident due to the fact that some US PoWs had tried to escape. Of course all those who have writen on that massacre have emphasised one or other point of view according to their preference: som tried to whitewash the Germans others of course have pointed out how bestial they have been. The statement of Reynolds does however not mean that the name of the survivors are wrong or unknown. I really think that this aspect of the massacre is well documented and available to every historian.
Finally, this story about Durning present at the crossroad is running on several websites since many years. I furthermore noticed that these websites often copy that material from one to the other (which means nobody actually checks the accuracy of that information). The fact is mentioned, but a reliable source (e.g. a book writen by an historian, for instance) is never goven by these websites. I realize that one will oppose the statement of the French consul. Frankly speaking I have doubts about this. Has he really said this. I could find no trace of this on the website of the French consulate. But it should be possible to ask them whether they have kept a record of this speach. On the other hand I am far from being convinced that the fact this would have been said by the French consul (if it was the case) make it the revealed truth. Can we really exclude that the speach could have writen by a lazzy (or gullible) employee who could simply have made a copy/paste of what he had found on a website without making any check?
In conclusion I still have strong doubts about this story and I think that one should check for more reliable sources before writing that Mr. Durning is a Malmedy massacre survivor. -- Lebob-BE ( talk) 20:11, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
12:09, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
<Everybody knows that official statement doesn't necessarily mean truth.>
I'm afraid that's where your argument runs out of steam. On that basis everything ever quoted is potentially false - a ridiculous proposition.
I repeat one last time, if you "know" - as you insist you do - why don't you contact the French Embassy and get them to retract the statement? I can't understand why you're so emphatic here, but so unwilling to prove your case in public. Go for it - its obviously a field of study that you enjoy and you have the chance to make your name. Set the record straight and, once you have, we can revise it here. David T Tokyo ( talk) 16:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Morning reports dated December 18th 1944 (see http://m.web2carz.com/article/article.php?articleId=2097) have since surfaced showing Durning assigned to the 12th Replacement Depot in England. The Malmedy Massacre took place on December 17, 1944 in Belgium. According to official documents he was in the following outfits after returning to duty.
12th Repl. Depot/ Repl. Co. X176A...Dec. 18, 1944 - Dec. 31, 1945
9th Repl. Depot/Det. #42 .................Dec. 31, 1944 - Jan.9, 1945 (France) 385th AAA Bn. Battery A .................Jan. 9, 1945 - Feb. 13, 1945 (Belgium) - Only C and D batteries received battle credit for the Bulge. 16th Repl. Depot / 88th Det................Feb. 13, 1945 - April 8, 1945 - Durning trained to become an MP and Qualified for the M-1 Rifle, on March 5, 1945.
17th Repl. Depot - April 8, 1945.
6991 Guard Company. Durning's unit guarded German POW's in Krippe, Germany until after VE Day, June 23, 1945. 159th Regiment. Durning was temporarily assigned to the Special Services (entertaining troops) before shipping home with the 398th Regiment in January, 1946.
With regards to the re-assignment of soldiers - while it is common knowledge that the replacement system funneled troops from unit to unit after being wounded, they were still moved to units with respect to their training. The question of why a trained rifleman (if that is what he was on D-Day) would suddenly end up in a field artillery observation battalion (if that is what happened) on 17 December is still pertinent. It is possible that a riflemen might be reclassified as a driver due to the extent of his injuries and be given limited duties in a FAOB, so it is not inconceivable, but the point here is that there needs to be some reliable evidence. The French document being discussed is not. Not only has no text been provided from this document, but it sounds like the entire thing was cribbed from this very article. The suggestion that it should now be considered "definitive" is laughable, given that its origins are completely spurious. 139.48.25.60 ( talk) 18:33, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Some insight (OR) This information isn't currently usable in the article itself, since I'm not aware of a published source that can be cited. But while I don't know Durning and have only met him once, he is close with several close friends of mine, and I asked them to ask him about the Malmedy thing. Durning does not claim to have been a Malmedy survivor. He describes in detail being captured by Germans and escaping, but NOT as part of the Malmedy events--not even at the same period of time. Unfortunately, Durning is very frail and his conversation is a bit wandering and imprecise. But he definitely does not claim to be a Malmedy survivor. I hope to get some kind of interview with him that can be published in order to cite these things, but with his current condition, I'm not sure it can be accomplished. Monkeyzpop ( talk) 01:53, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
we all have watched the cuban crime rags to ritches film with al pacino , i am personnely convinced that charles durning done a voice over for an emigration officer at the early stages of the film watch the start and the questions about the tattoo ,,,,if this is not charles durning voice then im an aardvaark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.160.21 ( talk) 03:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Every time I watch Star Wars episode IV (1977), I am certain I see Charles Durning as a foot soldier, Trying to defend the ship as Princess Leia records her message to Obi Wan in R2D2. It's right at the beginning of the movie. Is it him, or someone who really looks like him? He is not credited for being in Star Wars at IMDB. Wedinm ( talk) 21:22, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the lengthy Malmedy survivor? discussion above, today's AP story on Mr. Durning's death says he was "captured in the Battle of the Bulge and survived a massacre of prisoners." See: http://news.yahoo.com/durning-king-character-actors-dies-nyc-075353360.html
Sca ( talk) 14:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi,
While the article notes there appears to be some confusion at Durning's war record (which unit he was with at any particular moment etc), I think the Third Army [art needs to be clarified. Durning stated he took part in the D-Day landings, and the article notes he was with 1st Infantry. The American D-Day beach landings were under the command of US 1st Army, and the 1st Infantry was part of the First Army until - afaik - until the end of the war in Europe. So when was he a member of Third Army, during or after the war? EnigmaMcmxc ( talk) 13:23, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
It seems to me we should be able to track down (and then link to) Durning's Silver Star citation, which would provide date, circumstances and probably unit of assignment at the time. But some quick Google searches, including this database of citations: http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/04_SS/2_WWII/indexes/army/Army-D.html does not contain the name Charles Durning. The rest of the Wikipedia article on World War II service is, as others have noted here, quite inconsistent. I'm beginning to wonder about the veracity of Mr Durning's World War II story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deemery ( talk • contribs) 16:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
In 1943 you joined the army, enlisting as an Army Ranger. Following your training period in 1943, you were sent to England in February of the following year. On D-Day, you took part in the invasion at Omaha Beach, landing early in the day with a battalion of Rangers, alongside the First Infantry Division.
[1](No mention made of service with an antiaircraft unit)
References
In populating the Infobox, I made the assumption that Frances is Charles' sister because of the spelling of the name (instead of Francis), based on my experience (admittedly OR) and "Frances is a human name, the feminine version of Francis." at Frances (disambiguation). Now, the Early life section has been written in a way that claims Frances is a brother, though the cited source (IMDb) does not specify. Unless someone has a contradictory source, or different experience with the Frances/Francis spelling/gender distinction, I believe the section should assume she is a sister. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 23:36, 28 December 2012 (UTC) (Edited 23:39, 28 December 2012 (UTC))
Oldbubblehead ( talk) 23:42, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
I have received a copy of Durning's military records from the National Archives. Before I make any changes to his page, I have asked for some clarification from the Wikipedia powers that be. Wikipedia says no primary sources and the military record is a primary source. Unfortunatley, the secondary sources have most of his info wrong. Oldbubblehead ( talk) 06:18, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Kudos to Oldbubblehead for excellent original source efforts! The "confusion" regarding Mr. Durning's service is far more extensive than has been touched on here. A few additional points.
- Mr. During supposedly told a close friend that the reason he was transferred to the Rangers was because he hit an officer, and was therefore given the choice of either Leavenworth or the Rangers. [4] Given the scores of thousands of trained infantry replacements prepositioned in Britain in anticipation of D-Day casualties (over 88,000 replacements of all types had been 'stockpiled' in the UK by 7 Jun 44), it defies belief that the Rangers would accept a last minute replacement who was not even infantry qualified. And the Rangers were not a dumping ground for disciplinary problems.
- According to another source, Durning and 12 others were levied out of C/386 AAA/AW on 23 May 44, just two weeks before D-Day and assigned to the 17th Replacement Depot; he arrived in Normandy still assigned to a detachment of that Depot (as Old bubblehead noted). It isn't clear if he were a replacement en route to a line unit, or a member of the replacement detachment's cadre when he was wounded in Normandy on 15 Jun (the initial replacement detachments were displacing to operate from Normandy during this same week). [5]
- Should note that at the time Mr. Durning would have served with the 386th AAA (AW) Bn (he joined the unit while still stateside and he was levied out on 23 May 44 . . . before D-Day), it and the Third Army were still in England, not yet having been in combat.
- After being wounded in Normandy, Mr. Durning was declared fit for duty on 6 Dec and transferred to the 10th Replacement Depot (in England) on 12 Dec 44. The Battle of the Bulge started on 16 Dec 44, and the Malmedy massacre happened on 17 Dec 44. So,
There is a significant question as to who he served with upon returning to the Continent.
- Are we supposed to believe - as some accounts hold - that after being levied out of the 386th AAA (AW) Bn, after being sent to Normandy as a replacement, after being wounded and after spending five months in a hospital recovering, that Mr. Durning returned back to the very same 386th AAA (AW) Bn he joined in '43? Of all the thousands of units in the ETO? Bubblehead, do Mr. Durning's record throw any light on this point?
- On the other hand, if he were assigned to the 398th Inf Regt upon discharge from the hospital - as most accounts reflect - that raises even more serious questions. They were fighting at Bitche, France, 200+ kilometers from Malmedy at the time of the Massacre. Worse, the 398th's own regimental history of its participation in WWII has a list of all its medal awardees; Mr. Durning is not listed as earning any medal of any kind with that unit. Not even a Bronze Star, much less a Silver Star.
- At least one account says he was assigned to the 159th Infantry Regiment. The problem here is that this regiment arrived in the ETO very late (mid-March 45), and was plugged into the then-reconstituting 106th Infantry Division to replace one of the two regiments destroyed during the Bulge. By the time the 106th was ready to resume combat operations (25 April 45) the war was winding down (VE Day was just two weeks later) and the division was relegated to running POW camps rather than fighting as an infantry division. It is hard to see where Mr. Durning would have earned a Silver Star with this unit.
- While many individual service records were indeed destroyed by fire, the General Orders which issued Silver Stars were stored at other locations - such as in the unit files - that have been archived at other facilities. The inability of anyone, to include his family, to produce these General Orders, or even cite the GO#, must arouse curiosity, to put it mildly. While Oldbubblehead's research apparently verifies the Silver Star, the issue will not be put to bed until the GO (with its citation extract) can be located. After all, few PFCs who earn the Silver Star remain as PFCs for long.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Mr. Durning's 'war record' merely consists of his own assertions (which varied greatly over the years) or retellings of his assertions, as understood or embellished by others. There are no original sources, official documents or corroborating accounts by those he served with that validate his stories. And there's the weakness in Wiki; the burden of proof should be on those making assertions of fact; instead, Wiki gives credence to unsubstantiated, possibly self-serving claims made by individuals, that are only bolstered by second and third hand retellings of that same man's stories. I would hope that the editors of this page would at least mention that there is controversy surrounding the many versions of his wartime service and that official records are at odds with many points. That at least would acknowledge the elephant in the room. We don't have to resolve the discrepancies, but we should at least note them. The current article, which avoids all discussion of these questions of fact, appears dedicated to burnishing and protecting his image, which seems a POV violation. I'd also hope that other identified incorrect entries be removed from the article, such as earning 3 Puprple Hearts (he earned just one); serving with the 1st Division (he did not) and receiving campaign credit for the Battle of the Bulge (Ardennes Campaign - which, again, he did not); Oldbubblehead's research has proven those elements invalid. Again, kudos to Oldbubblehead. 98.255.89.22 ( talk) 09:00, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
Oldbubblehead. Don't know whether you have seen this discussion of Mr. Durning's service:
http://nmisscommentor.com/random-firings/charles-durning-obit-in-the-new-york-times/comment-page-1/#comment-126171
Steve Karras - who wrote the web2carz article - joined the discussion and provided additional data from his research. He noted that 1) It appears Durning did not leave the replacement system till March 44 (well after Malmedy); 2) Durning was nominally assigned to the 159th Inf Regt, then transferred to the 398th Inf Regt when the former was shipped stateside in the Fall of 45; 3)Although he was nominally assigned to those infantry regiments, he actually was on temporary duty with the 20th Special Services Bn (an entertainment unit); and 5) Mr. Karras says he knows for a fact that Arlington has cut a new headstone for Durning which omits the Bronze Star medal and two of his supposed Purple Hearts.
He also points out that During's records only mention Silver Star, not Silever Star Medal. As you know, that is a critical difference. The Service Stars (or campaign stars or battle stars) came in bronze or silver. That can cause a number of types of confusion. In the past I've seen folks read an entry that said 'Bronze SS'and interpret it as the man earned both a Bronze Star Medal and a Silver Star Medal, when in fact it just denoted a single bronze Service Star for a campaign ribbon. 98.255.89.22 ( talk) 00:56, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
I've received the docs from Oldbubblehead (tnx!) and will get the relevant/readable pages uploaded ASAP. WRT the EIB/CIB, block 31 says "M1 Rifle Ex 165 5 Mar 45". Can someone decode this?
Also, in block 55, "ASR Score (2 Sep 45) 61"?
Total mustering out pay was $300 – $100 was paid at the time. The worksheet shows (additionally) Foreign Service Pay of $128.43 for the period 1 Dec 45 to 24 or 26 Jan 46 – $70–72/month depending on how it was pro-rated.
Block 36 shows arrival in the ETO on 19 Feb 44 and departure 8 Jan 46. It also shows wounded 29 Jun 44, which is incorrect in comparison with all the med records.
Given the manual, handwritten nature of documentation at the time, and the huge growth of forces, it's not at all surprising to me that administrative paperwork was less than accurate. Thinking about how veterans of that era typically talk about the Army with regard to administrative matters only confirms this feeling that such records may be largely inaccurate. It's entirely possible that Durning (or someone on his behalf) asked for (and obtained) corrections to the original records in the time since his discharge, explaining the additional awards in the 2002 summary and the letter from 2008. I'm guessing the latter was in response to Durning wanting to clarify things in the time leading up to his award from the French on 22 April. Perhaps we can look forward one day to the family releasing some of his personal correspondence that may shed further light. —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 12:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I am proposing the following as a new section on the Charles Durning page:
"Controversy Surrounding Military Service -
Charles Durning served his country with honor and with great personal sacrifice. We owe him a debt of gratitude as we do the many other World War II veterans who served alongside him. Sadly, Durning made a number of statements during his lifetime and was present when statements were made about his military service which cannot be reconciled with the undisputed facts in his military records. Mr. Steve Karras, among other researchers, has accessed primary sources such as Durning’s discharge papers, his medical records, unit personnel rosters and morning reports, Army General Orders, and other records, as well as secondary sources such as unit official histories, to assemble an accurate record of Durning’s military experiences. Arlington National Cemetery has acknowledged some of these discrepancies and is in the process of re-cutting Durning’s headstone. [Ref:
http://www.web2carz.com/people/who-you-know/2097/charles-durnings-war-heroism-exaggeration-fabrication]."
Oldbubblehead (
talk)
04:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I've uploaded the following scans of relevant docs:
(still researching correct license and category tagging). —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 00:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
More Durning documents have turned up. A report from the 12th Replacement Depot has him in England on December 20th, 1944. This is four days after the start of the Battle of the Bulge and three days after the Malmedy Massacre. Oldbubblehead ( talk) 06:39, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
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There's no reason to display the medals or decorations he is said to have received. There are links to articles on the medals with pictures of them there. -- Chuck Baggett ( talk) 02:48, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
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Recent edits have removed a reference while asserting a claim "from IMDb" about Mr Durning's ancestry. IMDb is not considered to be a reliable source since it is mainly user-edited - just like Wikipedia. Let's discuss the editing here please. Shearonink ( talk) 19:53, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Not so far as I can tell, information does not appear in cited souces. Discuss here please. Shearonink ( talk) 18:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
The VA says he was at Malmedy
"During the Battle of the Bulge, Germans captured Durning. He was one of only a few soldiers to survive the Malmedy massacre when German soldiers opened fire on nearly 90 prisoners of war. For his injuries, Durning received his second Purple Heart." https://news.va.gov/98192/veteranoftheday-army-veteran-charles-durning/