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Rls, I did, and I placed an external link at the page pitch (vertical space). Others can be found by a cursory google search... -- Joy [shallot] 23:10, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Oh and I also mailed the author of that page that's wrong detailing its mistakes. -- Joy [shallot]
What is the difference between a stygobite (mentioned in this article) and a phreatobite (not yet mentioned)? -- Chinasaur 21:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I made a small change clarifying the difference between an ice cave and a glacier cave. Ian mckenzie 03:25, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
The terms "ice cave" and "glacier cave" that I proposed (corrected) are those in common usage amongst cavers/speleologists in Canada and, I believe, the rest of the world. See http://werple.net.au/~gnb/caving/glossary/I.html http://home.pacific.net.au/~gah/speleology/glossary.htm http://www.showcaves.com/english/explain/Speleology/Classification.html http://www.speleogenesis.info/glossary/pdf/glossary_02_I.pdf http://207.57.17.64/files/glossary.pdf and http://nsidc.org/glaciers/glossary/glacier_cave.html all of which which mirror my understanding. There are many more. You can find a few references which call caves in glaciers "ice caves" but these tend to be nontechnical names. For example, http://glaciercaves.com/html/glacie_12.HTM gives several examples of glacier caves that are called "So-And-So Ice Cave" but are still referred to as glacier caves, with the distinct (correct) definition of an "ice cave" following. I can understand your argument that a bedrock cave with permanent ice in it is not a morphologically distinct cave type in itself, but do not agree that it is not a "special type of cave" because in those countries that have them, it is. Perhaps a compromise would be to correct the definition of "glacier cave" and include within that definition "...not to be confused with <ice cave>, which is any cave in bedrock that contains permanent ice formations". Ian mckenzie
Good change. My original change was perhaps a little too strict, based on right/wrong whereas yours recognizes common usage. I did make one further small wording change, tho, as I believe an important function of wiki is to correct misconceptions, and the term 'ice cave' is technically incorrect when refering to caves in glaciers. I hope the present wording satisfies all... Ian mckenzie
The photo headlining this page is pretty poor, not to mention a blatant advertisement for a show cave, plus, it is repeated on a page made for that show cave. As a professional cave photographer I have images I'd be willing to donate, however am not sure of the procedure or etiquette involved in replacing an image. In the help sections I only see how to place an image, not how to replace one. -- Dave Bunnell 22:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I would say go ahead and replace it, as cave of the mounds is hardly a famous cave in the international world. I don't know how to replace photos though, but someone did it recently on the Batu Caves page,so maybe you could find out from there. Cavingliz-- Cavingliz 02:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I reworded the limestone cave paragraphs in this section to better tie in with the theme of secondary caves. Have also removed the statement that faster solution would lead to fewer caves, which is confusing and possibly untrue - caves in the tropics form faster than in Canada, yet there is no evidence that there are fewer of them there. Also, I removed loess, ice and lava from the list of solutional bedrocks; two are not bedrock and none of the three owe their caves' existence to chemical solution, unless in the most exceptional circumstances. Ian mckenzie 20:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the edits made by 69.168.140.188 as one simply linked back to this same page and paragraph, and the other linked nowhere. Ian mckenzie 00:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It looks like the links to a number of long and deep cave links have been removed as inappropriate. I don't see a note here. Why were they considered inappropriate? (Bob Gulden's site is considered as one of the most reliable by many cavers, and his work on caves and cave records in the National Speleological Society speaks for itself.) Nahaj 19:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree that a lot of links have been removed by VSmith, he considers them to be spam, but in fact I would consider them to be genuine links to good sites. Cavingliz 07:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
"A cave is a stupid hole in the grounde... (run-on sentence)"??? Surely we can do better than this. I don't remember how to sign on but maybe someone else can think of a more appropriate way to begin this article. I don't even have time right now to read the whole article but I'll bet there are more problems. It actually looks like someone tried to deliberately write something silly. This is the kind of comment a child would make when they don't want to do something they are supposed to do. I think someone needs to look at this article and figure out if this is lazy editing or vandalism or technical malfunction. Then I would love to read the whole article. Keep up the good work everyone. I enjoy reading Wikipedia articles and if I can ever figure out how to sign on with my user name again I'll help out with the editing. WLE 68.46.248.8 ( talk) 22:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
i need info 4 project —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.240.27 ( talk) 22:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
"...may form anywhere with rock that is soluble, and are most prevalent in limestone, but can also form in other material, including chalk, dolomite, marble, granite, salt, sandstone, fossilized coral and gypsum."
Since when is granite soluable? Isn't "fossilzed"(sp) coral just limestone? Shouldn't this section be re-written so as not to be so awkward? 16:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senor Cuete ( talk • contribs)
Mention how quiet, both in terms of decibels of sound people can hear, and also in terms of radio wave penetration, it gets in caves. Jidanni ( talk) 02:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
It is a WELL DOCUMENTED fact that EUROPEANS originated in CAVES. While the Blackman (the ORIGINAL Man) was dwelling in the Palaces and Pyramids of KMT (or "Egypt" as y'all caucasians call it), they were crawling around in the caves of europe all terrified of the Sun (the Mighty Sun Disc Atun Amun-Ra, the Black God). To not mention this is complete horsesh*t, I mean, POV. Wikipedia's systemic bias is well documented but y'all can't even DENY this sh*t! white people came from caves. This article needs to reflect this fact as it is PROMINENT in the minds of Black Folks: we hear caves, we think white boys. Don't believe me? I found this sh*t on google, a WHITE, RACIST web site! http://www.accd.edu/sac/vat/arthistory/arts1303/PALNEO.htm
Now compare to: http://www.in2itinternational.com/Artist/Hernandez_Reynaldo/Black_Imperial_Egypt_The%20Old_Kingdom_21_30.jpg http://www.zoss.com/personal/egypt/egypt1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
Caverns smell of dung. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.212.163.77 ( talk) 21:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Why does the link for "Primary cave" in the types of cave section simply send you back to the top of the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.71.137 ( talk) 01:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
hey how come theres nothing on costal caves here??—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.86.57 ( talk) 15:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
A recent edit added a new image to the article. The image was added in a series of edits over several days. I thought that the article was already well populated by quality images showing various types of caves and that the new image was not superior and did not improve the article. So, I reverted. The user readded the image with no comment a short time later.
I am starting this section to discuss this image and whether or not it improves the article. I think that the image is of lesser quality than the ones already in the article. I also think that the image does not add value to the article. I do not know why the editor added the image nor why he/she is determined to keep it. Maybe they will contribute to this discussion. I have asked them to join in.
Does anyone else have thoughts on this image? WTucker ( talk) 02:38, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Mentions of mining could probably be added in context to the article, but so far what has been attempted to be added, adds nothing to the content of the Cave article, instead placing too much emphasis on mines and how special they are by noting their depth. While mining is entirely a manmade creation, caves are not. A brief mention of digging could be noted in the article somewhere, but it is hardly a "formation" or "type of cave," because at any point if the entirety or majority of the "cave" has been formed by digging, it is probably an oxymoron or misnomer. Digging is not a formation because caves are natural (meaning not related to man, in this case) and thus so are the ways in which they are formed.
The way I see mining being mentioned in this article is in the case of caves that have minerals or other valuable deposits that have been mined. Bat guano comes to mind. But so far I don't think mining is notable enough to be in the lead of the article. At least not at this time. Leitmotiv ( talk) 17:28, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Paul: As someone who has devoted much of my life to caving, I have to say that you obviously don't know what you are talking about. This doesn't seem to deter you from having a strong opinion about the subject. This is troubling. Your belief that there are man-made caves is foolish. It demonstrated a misconception about what a cave is. A cave is a naturally occurring void in the Earth. Mines, cellars, etc. might be colloquially referred to as "caves" but are not. Your move to caves(natural) was heavy-handed and should have been discussed here first, where it would have been rejected. My dictionary doesn't define caves as usually horizontal so I guess we now have a contest to see if my dictionary is bigger than yours. Even if your short dictionary says that caves are usually horizontal, it's wrong. You should stick to editing articles about subjects about which you have expertise. This way you won't suffer the frustration of having all of your edits rejected. Alternatively you could discuss them here so we can tell you to forget it. Senor Cuete ( talk) 14:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Senor Cuete
Paul Venter has now removed the statement that most caves are formed in limestone four times and it has been reverted. Does anyone think that this improves this article or is it disruptive editing? Paul: do you really think that this statement is untrue or are you being vindictive? If you have no support for your edit on this talk page you should stop this. Senor Cuete ( talk) 13:33, 2 July 2013 (UTC)Senor Cuete
WP:NOCITE If a claim is doubtful but not harmful, use the citation needed template, which will add an inline tag, but remember to go back and remove the claim if no source is produced within a reasonable time. This should be clear enough. Paul venter ( talk) 14:20, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
This sentence was found in the glacial cave section. "Glacier caves are sometimes misidentified as "ice caves", though this latter term is properly reserved for bedrock caves that contain year-round ice formations." Nowhere in the article are bedrock caves defined. are they a type of solutional cave? If I knew enough, I'd add a definition of bedrock cave and put Ice caves in as a sub-type, but I do not know. Someone please help. 134.29.231.11 ( talk) 18:29, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
@ WTucker:, how about we remove all of the external links as failing WP:ELNO #1 and WP:NOTDIRECTORY? Geogene ( talk) 19:45, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Wikilinks were removed from See Also to restore some sort of Balance. There is no need to have balance in the See Also section; it is for relevant or related wikipedia articles that are not wikilinked elsewhere in the article. If you feel there are missing wikilinks to some other cave orgs, then add wikilinks in See Also (if the article exists). Or, create a paragraph talking about cave orgs (almost had a typo and wrote cave ogres... Totally different discussion) and wikilink to the various orgs and remove dups from See Also. Or, create a List Of Cave Orgs, place valid wikilinks there and link to that list from See Also. It's not a matter of 'not all orgs are listed, so no orgs can be listed'. Stesmo ( talk) 21:16, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
On 15 April, Sijadthelastpoet added an unreferenced etymology section, and was reverted. A discussion was had at his talk page; he didn't really accept WP:OR, but the non-constructive editing from that account stopped. Since then, five IPs have added the same section back. Sockpuppetry is most likely occurring here – report any other socks to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sijadthelastpoet. Quasar G t - c 15:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
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Just thought some of you might enjoy this conversation I had on "underground cave". I went through and deleted every instance of the redundancy I found on Wikipedia, but this video game article met stiff resistance. No one in that conversation could argue why the term was needed in that particular instance, nor could they actually provide an example of what an above ground cave looked like. I bring your attention to it, in the event you come across this mentality in your edits of cave related articles. Apparently, above ground is a cliff-side or a hill... Yeah by the end of the conversation I was more than a little annoyed with the final result as people had no rebuttals and reverted, merely to revert, not because they had agreed upon my being wrong. Leitmotiv ( talk) 02:18, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
The definition of Cavern in the lede seems to be from a school pdf file. Unfortunately, it doesn't cite any sources other than a generic thank you to Sierra Nevada Recreation Corporation: Moaning Cavern, Black Chasm Cavern, and California Cavern. It doesn't seem to be an authority on this matter. Unfortunately, at the moment, I don't have access to other literature that defines cavern better than this pdf file. The term "cavern" may be be describing a solution cave, but the subsection on Solutional Caves does not seem to refer to caverns at all, except to identify a particular cave named in that fashion. On the flip side, many solutional caves are not called caverns, but just as cave/s - such as Oregon Caves. Also the disambiguation page for Cavern defines it as: "another name for a cave or a large room within a cave" which seems much more accurate.
It's very likely that cavern is much broader than its current definition as a solution cave. I've read many articles that call rooms caverns, or any type of cave a cavern: some lunar lava tubes are referred to as caverns. Oxford dictionary describes it as: "A large cave or chamber in a cave."
Thoughts or sources? Leitmotiv ( talk) 00:16, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Intenye. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 26#Intenye until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Certes (
talk)
17:04, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Usage in the lead cites two references. One I cannot access, ant the other seems to refer to a different usage of the terms. Other research suggests that the description given is back to front and unclear. The terminology does not appear to be used elsewhere in the body of the article. I am going to change the lead to say what I think the terms mean. Anyone who actually knows better and can back up their knowledge with reliable sources is welcome to correct any mistake I might make, but please ping me so I can learn. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 07:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
There's a type of cave not described in this article. In Europe they're known as sackungen caves, and in the USA probably as block creep or rock creep. Essentially where large masses of rock (e.g. a sagging cliff) "form by deep-seated gravitational spreading and landslide activity." They have similarities to fissure caves, but according to a report, fissure caves are found adjacent to cliff faces, while sackungen form by widespread slope instability and large lateral extent. Leitmotiv ( talk) 00:19, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Cave#cite_note-CINDAQ-17 gives for
Sistema Ox Bel Ha 435.805 km (270.797 mi). IMHO, the
sole valid source is maintained by the
Quintana Roo Speleological Survey, giving with Nov. 2022 only 346.798 km (215.490 mi). According to historical data of the
QRSS the largest increase in surveyed length happened with 44.5 km (27.7 mi) between May 1998 and April 1999. Failed the
CINDAQ to officially report results of its new survey or was it not considered trustworthy by the
QRSS? A difference of 89 km (55 mi) would be massive and without precedent in the exploration history of Ox Bel Ha. On the other hand, at least two authors of the CINDAQ’s report (Fred Devos, Christophe Le Maillot) are highly reputed in the cave diving community. In short: Which number is correct / should we give in the article?
I will cross-post at
Talk:Sistema Ox Bel Ha.
Alfie
↑↓
©
21:53, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
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Rls, I did, and I placed an external link at the page pitch (vertical space). Others can be found by a cursory google search... -- Joy [shallot] 23:10, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Oh and I also mailed the author of that page that's wrong detailing its mistakes. -- Joy [shallot]
What is the difference between a stygobite (mentioned in this article) and a phreatobite (not yet mentioned)? -- Chinasaur 21:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
I made a small change clarifying the difference between an ice cave and a glacier cave. Ian mckenzie 03:25, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
The terms "ice cave" and "glacier cave" that I proposed (corrected) are those in common usage amongst cavers/speleologists in Canada and, I believe, the rest of the world. See http://werple.net.au/~gnb/caving/glossary/I.html http://home.pacific.net.au/~gah/speleology/glossary.htm http://www.showcaves.com/english/explain/Speleology/Classification.html http://www.speleogenesis.info/glossary/pdf/glossary_02_I.pdf http://207.57.17.64/files/glossary.pdf and http://nsidc.org/glaciers/glossary/glacier_cave.html all of which which mirror my understanding. There are many more. You can find a few references which call caves in glaciers "ice caves" but these tend to be nontechnical names. For example, http://glaciercaves.com/html/glacie_12.HTM gives several examples of glacier caves that are called "So-And-So Ice Cave" but are still referred to as glacier caves, with the distinct (correct) definition of an "ice cave" following. I can understand your argument that a bedrock cave with permanent ice in it is not a morphologically distinct cave type in itself, but do not agree that it is not a "special type of cave" because in those countries that have them, it is. Perhaps a compromise would be to correct the definition of "glacier cave" and include within that definition "...not to be confused with <ice cave>, which is any cave in bedrock that contains permanent ice formations". Ian mckenzie
Good change. My original change was perhaps a little too strict, based on right/wrong whereas yours recognizes common usage. I did make one further small wording change, tho, as I believe an important function of wiki is to correct misconceptions, and the term 'ice cave' is technically incorrect when refering to caves in glaciers. I hope the present wording satisfies all... Ian mckenzie
The photo headlining this page is pretty poor, not to mention a blatant advertisement for a show cave, plus, it is repeated on a page made for that show cave. As a professional cave photographer I have images I'd be willing to donate, however am not sure of the procedure or etiquette involved in replacing an image. In the help sections I only see how to place an image, not how to replace one. -- Dave Bunnell 22:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I would say go ahead and replace it, as cave of the mounds is hardly a famous cave in the international world. I don't know how to replace photos though, but someone did it recently on the Batu Caves page,so maybe you could find out from there. Cavingliz-- Cavingliz 02:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I reworded the limestone cave paragraphs in this section to better tie in with the theme of secondary caves. Have also removed the statement that faster solution would lead to fewer caves, which is confusing and possibly untrue - caves in the tropics form faster than in Canada, yet there is no evidence that there are fewer of them there. Also, I removed loess, ice and lava from the list of solutional bedrocks; two are not bedrock and none of the three owe their caves' existence to chemical solution, unless in the most exceptional circumstances. Ian mckenzie 20:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the edits made by 69.168.140.188 as one simply linked back to this same page and paragraph, and the other linked nowhere. Ian mckenzie 00:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
It looks like the links to a number of long and deep cave links have been removed as inappropriate. I don't see a note here. Why were they considered inappropriate? (Bob Gulden's site is considered as one of the most reliable by many cavers, and his work on caves and cave records in the National Speleological Society speaks for itself.) Nahaj 19:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree that a lot of links have been removed by VSmith, he considers them to be spam, but in fact I would consider them to be genuine links to good sites. Cavingliz 07:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
"A cave is a stupid hole in the grounde... (run-on sentence)"??? Surely we can do better than this. I don't remember how to sign on but maybe someone else can think of a more appropriate way to begin this article. I don't even have time right now to read the whole article but I'll bet there are more problems. It actually looks like someone tried to deliberately write something silly. This is the kind of comment a child would make when they don't want to do something they are supposed to do. I think someone needs to look at this article and figure out if this is lazy editing or vandalism or technical malfunction. Then I would love to read the whole article. Keep up the good work everyone. I enjoy reading Wikipedia articles and if I can ever figure out how to sign on with my user name again I'll help out with the editing. WLE 68.46.248.8 ( talk) 22:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
i need info 4 project —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.65.240.27 ( talk) 22:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
"...may form anywhere with rock that is soluble, and are most prevalent in limestone, but can also form in other material, including chalk, dolomite, marble, granite, salt, sandstone, fossilized coral and gypsum."
Since when is granite soluable? Isn't "fossilzed"(sp) coral just limestone? Shouldn't this section be re-written so as not to be so awkward? 16:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)Senor Cuete —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senor Cuete ( talk • contribs)
Mention how quiet, both in terms of decibels of sound people can hear, and also in terms of radio wave penetration, it gets in caves. Jidanni ( talk) 02:30, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
It is a WELL DOCUMENTED fact that EUROPEANS originated in CAVES. While the Blackman (the ORIGINAL Man) was dwelling in the Palaces and Pyramids of KMT (or "Egypt" as y'all caucasians call it), they were crawling around in the caves of europe all terrified of the Sun (the Mighty Sun Disc Atun Amun-Ra, the Black God). To not mention this is complete horsesh*t, I mean, POV. Wikipedia's systemic bias is well documented but y'all can't even DENY this sh*t! white people came from caves. This article needs to reflect this fact as it is PROMINENT in the minds of Black Folks: we hear caves, we think white boys. Don't believe me? I found this sh*t on google, a WHITE, RACIST web site! http://www.accd.edu/sac/vat/arthistory/arts1303/PALNEO.htm
Now compare to: http://www.in2itinternational.com/Artist/Hernandez_Reynaldo/Black_Imperial_Egypt_The%20Old_Kingdom_21_30.jpg http://www.zoss.com/personal/egypt/egypt1.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
Caverns smell of dung. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.212.163.77 ( talk) 21:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Why does the link for "Primary cave" in the types of cave section simply send you back to the top of the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.71.137 ( talk) 01:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
hey how come theres nothing on costal caves here??—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.86.57 ( talk) 15:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
A recent edit added a new image to the article. The image was added in a series of edits over several days. I thought that the article was already well populated by quality images showing various types of caves and that the new image was not superior and did not improve the article. So, I reverted. The user readded the image with no comment a short time later.
I am starting this section to discuss this image and whether or not it improves the article. I think that the image is of lesser quality than the ones already in the article. I also think that the image does not add value to the article. I do not know why the editor added the image nor why he/she is determined to keep it. Maybe they will contribute to this discussion. I have asked them to join in.
Does anyone else have thoughts on this image? WTucker ( talk) 02:38, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Mentions of mining could probably be added in context to the article, but so far what has been attempted to be added, adds nothing to the content of the Cave article, instead placing too much emphasis on mines and how special they are by noting their depth. While mining is entirely a manmade creation, caves are not. A brief mention of digging could be noted in the article somewhere, but it is hardly a "formation" or "type of cave," because at any point if the entirety or majority of the "cave" has been formed by digging, it is probably an oxymoron or misnomer. Digging is not a formation because caves are natural (meaning not related to man, in this case) and thus so are the ways in which they are formed.
The way I see mining being mentioned in this article is in the case of caves that have minerals or other valuable deposits that have been mined. Bat guano comes to mind. But so far I don't think mining is notable enough to be in the lead of the article. At least not at this time. Leitmotiv ( talk) 17:28, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Paul: As someone who has devoted much of my life to caving, I have to say that you obviously don't know what you are talking about. This doesn't seem to deter you from having a strong opinion about the subject. This is troubling. Your belief that there are man-made caves is foolish. It demonstrated a misconception about what a cave is. A cave is a naturally occurring void in the Earth. Mines, cellars, etc. might be colloquially referred to as "caves" but are not. Your move to caves(natural) was heavy-handed and should have been discussed here first, where it would have been rejected. My dictionary doesn't define caves as usually horizontal so I guess we now have a contest to see if my dictionary is bigger than yours. Even if your short dictionary says that caves are usually horizontal, it's wrong. You should stick to editing articles about subjects about which you have expertise. This way you won't suffer the frustration of having all of your edits rejected. Alternatively you could discuss them here so we can tell you to forget it. Senor Cuete ( talk) 14:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Senor Cuete
Paul Venter has now removed the statement that most caves are formed in limestone four times and it has been reverted. Does anyone think that this improves this article or is it disruptive editing? Paul: do you really think that this statement is untrue or are you being vindictive? If you have no support for your edit on this talk page you should stop this. Senor Cuete ( talk) 13:33, 2 July 2013 (UTC)Senor Cuete
WP:NOCITE If a claim is doubtful but not harmful, use the citation needed template, which will add an inline tag, but remember to go back and remove the claim if no source is produced within a reasonable time. This should be clear enough. Paul venter ( talk) 14:20, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
This sentence was found in the glacial cave section. "Glacier caves are sometimes misidentified as "ice caves", though this latter term is properly reserved for bedrock caves that contain year-round ice formations." Nowhere in the article are bedrock caves defined. are they a type of solutional cave? If I knew enough, I'd add a definition of bedrock cave and put Ice caves in as a sub-type, but I do not know. Someone please help. 134.29.231.11 ( talk) 18:29, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
@ WTucker:, how about we remove all of the external links as failing WP:ELNO #1 and WP:NOTDIRECTORY? Geogene ( talk) 19:45, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Wikilinks were removed from See Also to restore some sort of Balance. There is no need to have balance in the See Also section; it is for relevant or related wikipedia articles that are not wikilinked elsewhere in the article. If you feel there are missing wikilinks to some other cave orgs, then add wikilinks in See Also (if the article exists). Or, create a paragraph talking about cave orgs (almost had a typo and wrote cave ogres... Totally different discussion) and wikilink to the various orgs and remove dups from See Also. Or, create a List Of Cave Orgs, place valid wikilinks there and link to that list from See Also. It's not a matter of 'not all orgs are listed, so no orgs can be listed'. Stesmo ( talk) 21:16, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
On 15 April, Sijadthelastpoet added an unreferenced etymology section, and was reverted. A discussion was had at his talk page; he didn't really accept WP:OR, but the non-constructive editing from that account stopped. Since then, five IPs have added the same section back. Sockpuppetry is most likely occurring here – report any other socks to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sijadthelastpoet. Quasar G t - c 15:23, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
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Just thought some of you might enjoy this conversation I had on "underground cave". I went through and deleted every instance of the redundancy I found on Wikipedia, but this video game article met stiff resistance. No one in that conversation could argue why the term was needed in that particular instance, nor could they actually provide an example of what an above ground cave looked like. I bring your attention to it, in the event you come across this mentality in your edits of cave related articles. Apparently, above ground is a cliff-side or a hill... Yeah by the end of the conversation I was more than a little annoyed with the final result as people had no rebuttals and reverted, merely to revert, not because they had agreed upon my being wrong. Leitmotiv ( talk) 02:18, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
The definition of Cavern in the lede seems to be from a school pdf file. Unfortunately, it doesn't cite any sources other than a generic thank you to Sierra Nevada Recreation Corporation: Moaning Cavern, Black Chasm Cavern, and California Cavern. It doesn't seem to be an authority on this matter. Unfortunately, at the moment, I don't have access to other literature that defines cavern better than this pdf file. The term "cavern" may be be describing a solution cave, but the subsection on Solutional Caves does not seem to refer to caverns at all, except to identify a particular cave named in that fashion. On the flip side, many solutional caves are not called caverns, but just as cave/s - such as Oregon Caves. Also the disambiguation page for Cavern defines it as: "another name for a cave or a large room within a cave" which seems much more accurate.
It's very likely that cavern is much broader than its current definition as a solution cave. I've read many articles that call rooms caverns, or any type of cave a cavern: some lunar lava tubes are referred to as caverns. Oxford dictionary describes it as: "A large cave or chamber in a cave."
Thoughts or sources? Leitmotiv ( talk) 00:16, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Intenye. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 26#Intenye until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Certes (
talk)
17:04, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Usage in the lead cites two references. One I cannot access, ant the other seems to refer to a different usage of the terms. Other research suggests that the description given is back to front and unclear. The terminology does not appear to be used elsewhere in the body of the article. I am going to change the lead to say what I think the terms mean. Anyone who actually knows better and can back up their knowledge with reliable sources is welcome to correct any mistake I might make, but please ping me so I can learn. Cheers, · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 07:48, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
There's a type of cave not described in this article. In Europe they're known as sackungen caves, and in the USA probably as block creep or rock creep. Essentially where large masses of rock (e.g. a sagging cliff) "form by deep-seated gravitational spreading and landslide activity." They have similarities to fissure caves, but according to a report, fissure caves are found adjacent to cliff faces, while sackungen form by widespread slope instability and large lateral extent. Leitmotiv ( talk) 00:19, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
Cave#cite_note-CINDAQ-17 gives for
Sistema Ox Bel Ha 435.805 km (270.797 mi). IMHO, the
sole valid source is maintained by the
Quintana Roo Speleological Survey, giving with Nov. 2022 only 346.798 km (215.490 mi). According to historical data of the
QRSS the largest increase in surveyed length happened with 44.5 km (27.7 mi) between May 1998 and April 1999. Failed the
CINDAQ to officially report results of its new survey or was it not considered trustworthy by the
QRSS? A difference of 89 km (55 mi) would be massive and without precedent in the exploration history of Ox Bel Ha. On the other hand, at least two authors of the CINDAQ’s report (Fred Devos, Christophe Le Maillot) are highly reputed in the cave diving community. In short: Which number is correct / should we give in the article?
I will cross-post at
Talk:Sistema Ox Bel Ha.
Alfie
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©
21:53, 11 June 2023 (UTC)