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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that
Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar has a monument (pictured) modeled after her that was created by the Catalonian sculptor
Agustín Querol?
Overall: New enough and long enough, neutral, well cited, and well written.
The inline citation provided for the hook (Ref #4) does not appear to have the relevant information about the monument.
Perhaps this is due to language setting on my part, the link appears to me in Spanish and does not mention the monument.
I suggest adding another source to make sure that the information for the hook is available for all browser settings.
I found
this one in Spanish. Did not have time to look for a source in English, but if none are readily available this should do.
About the picture, I think it may be more appropriate to use the image of the monument mentioned in the hook, which is also used in the article.
@
Alan Islas: I think that I fixed all of the sourcing issues. Most of the information was already in the references, but it was just sourced to the wrong references at times. I also added the link that you provided to the article and changed the DYK image to the monument.
SL93 (
talk)
03:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks @
SL93:. I also added another source and a bit of extra content. Since the sources also had versions in Spanish (besides Basque) I was able to verify them.
After reading more about the subject I'm thinking that perhaps the hook should say: "... that
Bilbao philanthropist...", since she was and is so strongly connected to the city. Also, it would provide more context to the hook. But also ok as is, I leave it up to you. Good to go! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Alan Islas (
talk •
contribs)
06:20, 14 July 2020 (UTC)reply
@
SL93: Hi, I came by to promote this, but I'd like to ask: If this didn't run in an image slot, would the hook be hooky? I don't think so.
Yoninah (
talk)
17:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Yoninah: I disagree. "Hooky" is based on personal opinion and your opinion alone most certainly shouldn't override mine in this case. That's not how Wikipedia works. Could you elaborate what your problem is? We have had plenty of hooks of things being named after someone else that were promoted, including recently, so this is strange.
SL93 (
talk)
19:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
The nice thing about DYK is that everyone has an opinion. :)
I don't think it's hooky because it says one word about the subject and then expects me to know who the sculptor is. Meanwhile, I don't know who either of them are, and this hook doesn't enlighten me. If you think it should run anyway, fine, I'll promote it, but to a non-image spot because the thumbnail shows me more of the pool than of her bust.
Yoninah (
talk)
19:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that
Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar, who helped Bilbao society using her fortune for charity, has a monument modeled after her? If that is acceptable to you, I can ping the original reviewer.
SL93 (
talk)
19:17, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Sorry for mentioning it, but do you know how many other people this could apply to?
If a citation could be added, and better yet, if a number figure could be found, here is another idea:
ALT2: ... that Casilda Iturrizar shared her fortune with the most disadvantaged members of
Bilbao society both during her lifetime and after her death?
@
Yoninah: Technically, it is cited. The first paragraph of the Philanthropy section is literally her philanthropy. And no, I don't know how many other Bilbao philanthropists the hook would apply to.
SL93 (
talk)
19:38, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Yoninah: I never said you couldn't disagree. Although I doubt that there are many philanthropists where all three of those things would apply to them, especially from Bilbao.
SL93 (
talk)
19:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi, I hadn't been watching this page, but I'm up to date with the discussion now. Being new to DYK and fairly new to Wikipedia itself, I'm still unsure with my reviews. When I first read the hook I also thought, like
Yoninah, that it was not that hooky, but deemed it acceptable, especially since the artist is notable enough to have his own WP article. Also, I have to agree with
SL93 in that similar hooks appear to be promoted. But I'm glad there is a chance to improve it, even though is obviously not that easy.
My initial alternative idea was something like "... that the Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar started out in the domestic staff of her future husband, Tomás de Epalza, who was already married at the time?" but dismissed it as probably too much of a "tabloid" style hook maybe.
ALT3 is already better, so I would go with that, but just noting the park and the whole street are named after her, so it's not just the plaque and the monument. How about going further with the theme of things named after her, like this:
ALT3.1 "... that
Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar had a park, a hospital wing, and the street where she lived named after her?". Well, the street is called "Viuda de Epalza" (widow of Epalza) but also refers to her of course.
To be clear, one of the reasons I nominated this for DYK was because of such hooks always going through without any issues.
SL93 (
talk)
18:33, 7 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Monument of Casilda Iturrizar
ALT4 "... that Casilda Iturrizar(pictured) rose from working-class roots to become one of the most admired philanthropists of
Bilbao, where she is remembered with parks, hospitals and monuments bearing her name?
I really like ALT4 hook by
Maile! It tells a little story in itself and is true to the sources. Not a biggie, but I think it could be streets instead of monuments, both streets and monuments, or just the way it is. In the end I believe this long discussion it's actually resulting in an improved hook, which is a net gain.
Alan Islas (
talk)
22:22, 7 August 2020 (UTC)reply
@
SL93,
Yoninah, and
Maile66: I'm closing this as withdrawn per the nominator's request, but I'm going to go on the record and say that I would have had no issue running ALT2, ALT3, or ALT4; all are plenty interesting, and this is an example of letting the great be the enemy of the good. SL93, if you want to un-withdraw, let me know and I'll expedite processing this hook.
The Squirrel Conspiracy (
talk)
21:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Basque, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
Basque Country,
Basque people,
Basque language, history and culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BasqueWikipedia:WikiProject BasqueTemplate:WikiProject BasqueBasque articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles about women in
business on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject Women in BusinessTemplate:WikiProject Women in BusinessWomen in Business articles
This article was created or improved as part of the Women in Red project in 2020. The editor(s) involved may be new; please
assume good faith regarding their contributions before making changes.Women in RedWikipedia:WikiProject Women in RedTemplate:WikiProject Women in RedWomen in Red articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that
Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar has a monument (pictured) modeled after her that was created by the Catalonian sculptor
Agustín Querol?
Overall: New enough and long enough, neutral, well cited, and well written.
The inline citation provided for the hook (Ref #4) does not appear to have the relevant information about the monument.
Perhaps this is due to language setting on my part, the link appears to me in Spanish and does not mention the monument.
I suggest adding another source to make sure that the information for the hook is available for all browser settings.
I found
this one in Spanish. Did not have time to look for a source in English, but if none are readily available this should do.
About the picture, I think it may be more appropriate to use the image of the monument mentioned in the hook, which is also used in the article.
@
Alan Islas: I think that I fixed all of the sourcing issues. Most of the information was already in the references, but it was just sourced to the wrong references at times. I also added the link that you provided to the article and changed the DYK image to the monument.
SL93 (
talk)
03:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks @
SL93:. I also added another source and a bit of extra content. Since the sources also had versions in Spanish (besides Basque) I was able to verify them.
After reading more about the subject I'm thinking that perhaps the hook should say: "... that
Bilbao philanthropist...", since she was and is so strongly connected to the city. Also, it would provide more context to the hook. But also ok as is, I leave it up to you. Good to go! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Alan Islas (
talk •
contribs)
06:20, 14 July 2020 (UTC)reply
@
SL93: Hi, I came by to promote this, but I'd like to ask: If this didn't run in an image slot, would the hook be hooky? I don't think so.
Yoninah (
talk)
17:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Yoninah: I disagree. "Hooky" is based on personal opinion and your opinion alone most certainly shouldn't override mine in this case. That's not how Wikipedia works. Could you elaborate what your problem is? We have had plenty of hooks of things being named after someone else that were promoted, including recently, so this is strange.
SL93 (
talk)
19:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
The nice thing about DYK is that everyone has an opinion. :)
I don't think it's hooky because it says one word about the subject and then expects me to know who the sculptor is. Meanwhile, I don't know who either of them are, and this hook doesn't enlighten me. If you think it should run anyway, fine, I'll promote it, but to a non-image spot because the thumbnail shows me more of the pool than of her bust.
Yoninah (
talk)
19:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
ALT1: ... that
Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar, who helped Bilbao society using her fortune for charity, has a monument modeled after her? If that is acceptable to you, I can ping the original reviewer.
SL93 (
talk)
19:17, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Sorry for mentioning it, but do you know how many other people this could apply to?
If a citation could be added, and better yet, if a number figure could be found, here is another idea:
ALT2: ... that Casilda Iturrizar shared her fortune with the most disadvantaged members of
Bilbao society both during her lifetime and after her death?
@
Yoninah: Technically, it is cited. The first paragraph of the Philanthropy section is literally her philanthropy. And no, I don't know how many other Bilbao philanthropists the hook would apply to.
SL93 (
talk)
19:38, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Yoninah: I never said you couldn't disagree. Although I doubt that there are many philanthropists where all three of those things would apply to them, especially from Bilbao.
SL93 (
talk)
19:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi, I hadn't been watching this page, but I'm up to date with the discussion now. Being new to DYK and fairly new to Wikipedia itself, I'm still unsure with my reviews. When I first read the hook I also thought, like
Yoninah, that it was not that hooky, but deemed it acceptable, especially since the artist is notable enough to have his own WP article. Also, I have to agree with
SL93 in that similar hooks appear to be promoted. But I'm glad there is a chance to improve it, even though is obviously not that easy.
My initial alternative idea was something like "... that the Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar started out in the domestic staff of her future husband, Tomás de Epalza, who was already married at the time?" but dismissed it as probably too much of a "tabloid" style hook maybe.
ALT3 is already better, so I would go with that, but just noting the park and the whole street are named after her, so it's not just the plaque and the monument. How about going further with the theme of things named after her, like this:
ALT3.1 "... that
Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar had a park, a hospital wing, and the street where she lived named after her?". Well, the street is called "Viuda de Epalza" (widow of Epalza) but also refers to her of course.
To be clear, one of the reasons I nominated this for DYK was because of such hooks always going through without any issues.
SL93 (
talk)
18:33, 7 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Monument of Casilda Iturrizar
ALT4 "... that Casilda Iturrizar(pictured) rose from working-class roots to become one of the most admired philanthropists of
Bilbao, where she is remembered with parks, hospitals and monuments bearing her name?
I really like ALT4 hook by
Maile! It tells a little story in itself and is true to the sources. Not a biggie, but I think it could be streets instead of monuments, both streets and monuments, or just the way it is. In the end I believe this long discussion it's actually resulting in an improved hook, which is a net gain.
Alan Islas (
talk)
22:22, 7 August 2020 (UTC)reply
@
SL93,
Yoninah, and
Maile66: I'm closing this as withdrawn per the nominator's request, but I'm going to go on the record and say that I would have had no issue running ALT2, ALT3, or ALT4; all are plenty interesting, and this is an example of letting the great be the enemy of the good. SL93, if you want to un-withdraw, let me know and I'll expedite processing this hook.
The Squirrel Conspiracy (
talk)
21:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)reply