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I have just modified one external link on Carl Sargeant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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In England and Wales within the United Kingdom, whether a person has died (in a suspicious, unnatural or unexplained death) from suicide or not, is usually only formally and properly established, concluded or determined by someone called a coroner, in something called a Coroner's Inquest ... until the Inquest on the matter of the death of the late Carl Sargeant AM has been concluded, I would suggest that reports of suicide from even from such eminent and respectable journals as the Mirror, the Guardian, the Socialist Worker and the Morning Star should not be misused here in order to "jump the gun" before the coroner (and his jury, if there is to be one) has actually have the chance of finishing doing his (or their) job under the Coroners Act 1988 (1998 c. 13) [1] and the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 (2009 c. 25) [2]. "From an unconfirmed suspected suicide", not "from suicide". (Under the Contempt of Court Act 1981 (1981 c. 49) [3], which also covers the work of coroners and Coroners' Courts, the maximum penalty according to Section 14(1)(2) [4] is a fine not exceeding £2,500 or 2 years' imprisonment, or both. [5] [6] [7]: "Commenting on the results of an inquest could prevent a future criminal trial as the defendant may not be able to get a fair trial.") --- 87.102.116.36 ( talk) 07:17, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
A bit of context is useful. The word suicide has two very similar meanings. There's the everyday English word where someone kills themself. There's also the legal definition where a coroner is persuaded, beyond all reasonable doubt, that a person killed themselves and had the intention to do so. That's a high burden of proof, so it might well be that the coroner returns a verdict of say misadventure while everyone else is saying suicide. DanBCDanBC ( talk) 10:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Categories are, by definition, categorical. I'm really not sure that use of this particular category is yet justified. Normally one would await the outcome of an inquest before publishing such an unqualified claim. Martinevans123 ( talk) 18:39, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe the honorific-suffix should remain, because of the rationale in the hidden text. But the link to the the abbreviation AM does not appear to be a valid entry for {{Post-nominals|country=GBR|}}. Is anyone able to fix this, rather than just delete it? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 12:31, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
As far as I can tell the inquest has not concluded, so these categories are premature and erroneous. A case to remember, only a few miles away from Sargeant's, is that Gary Speed died of asphyxiation at his own hand but it was not suicide. [8] Anarcho-authoritarian ( talk) 19:06, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
![]() | A news item involving Carl Sargeant was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 8 November 2017. | ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Carl Sargeant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:55, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
In England and Wales within the United Kingdom, whether a person has died (in a suspicious, unnatural or unexplained death) from suicide or not, is usually only formally and properly established, concluded or determined by someone called a coroner, in something called a Coroner's Inquest ... until the Inquest on the matter of the death of the late Carl Sargeant AM has been concluded, I would suggest that reports of suicide from even from such eminent and respectable journals as the Mirror, the Guardian, the Socialist Worker and the Morning Star should not be misused here in order to "jump the gun" before the coroner (and his jury, if there is to be one) has actually have the chance of finishing doing his (or their) job under the Coroners Act 1988 (1998 c. 13) [1] and the Coroners and Justice Act 2009 (2009 c. 25) [2]. "From an unconfirmed suspected suicide", not "from suicide". (Under the Contempt of Court Act 1981 (1981 c. 49) [3], which also covers the work of coroners and Coroners' Courts, the maximum penalty according to Section 14(1)(2) [4] is a fine not exceeding £2,500 or 2 years' imprisonment, or both. [5] [6] [7]: "Commenting on the results of an inquest could prevent a future criminal trial as the defendant may not be able to get a fair trial.") --- 87.102.116.36 ( talk) 07:17, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
A bit of context is useful. The word suicide has two very similar meanings. There's the everyday English word where someone kills themself. There's also the legal definition where a coroner is persuaded, beyond all reasonable doubt, that a person killed themselves and had the intention to do so. That's a high burden of proof, so it might well be that the coroner returns a verdict of say misadventure while everyone else is saying suicide. DanBCDanBC ( talk) 10:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Categories are, by definition, categorical. I'm really not sure that use of this particular category is yet justified. Normally one would await the outcome of an inquest before publishing such an unqualified claim. Martinevans123 ( talk) 18:39, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe the honorific-suffix should remain, because of the rationale in the hidden text. But the link to the the abbreviation AM does not appear to be a valid entry for {{Post-nominals|country=GBR|}}. Is anyone able to fix this, rather than just delete it? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 12:31, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
As far as I can tell the inquest has not concluded, so these categories are premature and erroneous. A case to remember, only a few miles away from Sargeant's, is that Gary Speed died of asphyxiation at his own hand but it was not suicide. [8] Anarcho-authoritarian ( talk) 19:06, 21 April 2018 (UTC)