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I have deleted the reference to the execution of musicians, as the story is discredited now that Hyon Song-wol has appeared alive.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 06:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
If it is true that "Current working knowledge of the topic depends heavily on the accounts of defectors", then there should be some caution in the presentation of facts. Some of the stories have proved false, such as the execution of musicians. If there are widespread public executions, it should be possible to find confirmation for this in the official North Korean media. The differing accounts of the Suncheon Stadium execution don't give much confidence.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:41, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help))
Hey @
Jack Upland:, I see that in May you added a new
Template:Disputed tag to this article. In general I grant you that given the eccentricity and secrecy of the regime, it is easy for outsiders to concoct false stories or distort true ones about NK that may be readily believed by some. However, there are credible, reputable (although of course not infallible) sources that do speak to how executions are conducted in North Korea. At first glance at the article, I see 18 well-cited sources, with numerous in-line citations in each paragraph. There is not one single assertion that is not backed up by a citation. Moreover, I see that sources include the UN Human Rights Council, The Guardian, the Database Center for North Korean Human Rights, Foreign Policy, Washington Post, and Amnesty International.
Could you please elaborate, and point to specific flaws in the article? If I understood correctly, in priors entries in this thread you mentioned that assertions claimed in this article should have confirmation from the North Korean media. I differ in the assertion that human rights abuses need to be confirmed by the state media of the regime being accused of them. You also mentioned that you doubt on the validity of the UN report. This wikipedia article is careful to often explicitly attribute who published which news, so that it is not just stating a bare fact, but rather the more complete fact that X outlet reported Y news.
Rather than asserting what is and what is not true, could you point to reputable sources that back for support your point? I find that the essay Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth, even if just an essay (not a guideline or policy), is very sensible in its advice: "Any material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. Editors may not add content solely because they believe it is true, nor delete content they believe to be untrue, unless they have verified beforehand with a reliable source."
By the way, as I was saying early on, I do agree that not all news on NK are true. I think that listing within this article (or others) what high-profile reports were then proven to be mistaken, is worthy of inclusion in a section of its own. So if you could provide sources, please go ahead and share them. Also feel free to also edit the article to show the instances that reports were wrong. Let me ping @ Finnusertop: as he is also a regular contributor to NK articles, including this one, I'd like to hear his opinion. Thank you.( talk) user:Al83tito 06:30, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
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The article starts:
But if people are being killed for possessing Bibles, this isn't legal, and nothing in the UN report says it is. This is a contradictory way to start.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 08:18, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
How is the US Government owned and controlled propaganda outlet “Radio Free Asia” a reliable source? Every single entry that only uses RFA as a source should be removed; most of their claims are completely made up.
North Korea is not some dystopian society where you will be executed by artillery gun for watching south Korean movies. These lies have no place on Wikipedia.
Tankpiggy18 (
talk) 05:31, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
This is list of "reported executions", it doesn't say they really happened, just that some source reported it. North Korea doesn't publish public list of executions it made, so we don't have much alternative. Borysk5 ( talk) 07:35, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
The tag on the top of this page still applies. Much of the sourcing in this article relies on unverified anonymous reports, particularly in the list and prose of executions. I added a qualifier about Radio Free Asia in the lead based on a RSN discussion about RFA. It is my contention that reports sourced from the JoongAng and Chosun newspapers should be considered generally unreliable as they are conservative South Korean newspapers with a long history of a hardline stance against the North. I realize that coming by completely accurate, reliable sourcing on this matter is difficult, but by the same token this should not be a hosting page for unverified defector stories which are often of dubious veracity because defectors are frequently paid for their interviews. Etzedek24 ( I'll talk at ya) ( Check my track record) 19:25, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
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I have deleted the reference to the execution of musicians, as the story is discredited now that Hyon Song-wol has appeared alive.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 06:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
If it is true that "Current working knowledge of the topic depends heavily on the accounts of defectors", then there should be some caution in the presentation of facts. Some of the stories have proved false, such as the execution of musicians. If there are widespread public executions, it should be possible to find confirmation for this in the official North Korean media. The differing accounts of the Suncheon Stadium execution don't give much confidence.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:41, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help))
Hey @
Jack Upland:, I see that in May you added a new
Template:Disputed tag to this article. In general I grant you that given the eccentricity and secrecy of the regime, it is easy for outsiders to concoct false stories or distort true ones about NK that may be readily believed by some. However, there are credible, reputable (although of course not infallible) sources that do speak to how executions are conducted in North Korea. At first glance at the article, I see 18 well-cited sources, with numerous in-line citations in each paragraph. There is not one single assertion that is not backed up by a citation. Moreover, I see that sources include the UN Human Rights Council, The Guardian, the Database Center for North Korean Human Rights, Foreign Policy, Washington Post, and Amnesty International.
Could you please elaborate, and point to specific flaws in the article? If I understood correctly, in priors entries in this thread you mentioned that assertions claimed in this article should have confirmation from the North Korean media. I differ in the assertion that human rights abuses need to be confirmed by the state media of the regime being accused of them. You also mentioned that you doubt on the validity of the UN report. This wikipedia article is careful to often explicitly attribute who published which news, so that it is not just stating a bare fact, but rather the more complete fact that X outlet reported Y news.
Rather than asserting what is and what is not true, could you point to reputable sources that back for support your point? I find that the essay Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth, even if just an essay (not a guideline or policy), is very sensible in its advice: "Any material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. Editors may not add content solely because they believe it is true, nor delete content they believe to be untrue, unless they have verified beforehand with a reliable source."
By the way, as I was saying early on, I do agree that not all news on NK are true. I think that listing within this article (or others) what high-profile reports were then proven to be mistaken, is worthy of inclusion in a section of its own. So if you could provide sources, please go ahead and share them. Also feel free to also edit the article to show the instances that reports were wrong. Let me ping @ Finnusertop: as he is also a regular contributor to NK articles, including this one, I'd like to hear his opinion. Thank you.( talk) user:Al83tito 06:30, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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I have just modified one external link on Capital punishment in North Korea. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:13, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
The article starts:
But if people are being killed for possessing Bibles, this isn't legal, and nothing in the UN report says it is. This is a contradictory way to start.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 08:18, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
How is the US Government owned and controlled propaganda outlet “Radio Free Asia” a reliable source? Every single entry that only uses RFA as a source should be removed; most of their claims are completely made up.
North Korea is not some dystopian society where you will be executed by artillery gun for watching south Korean movies. These lies have no place on Wikipedia.
Tankpiggy18 (
talk) 05:31, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
This is list of "reported executions", it doesn't say they really happened, just that some source reported it. North Korea doesn't publish public list of executions it made, so we don't have much alternative. Borysk5 ( talk) 07:35, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
The tag on the top of this page still applies. Much of the sourcing in this article relies on unverified anonymous reports, particularly in the list and prose of executions. I added a qualifier about Radio Free Asia in the lead based on a RSN discussion about RFA. It is my contention that reports sourced from the JoongAng and Chosun newspapers should be considered generally unreliable as they are conservative South Korean newspapers with a long history of a hardline stance against the North. I realize that coming by completely accurate, reliable sourcing on this matter is difficult, but by the same token this should not be a hosting page for unverified defector stories which are often of dubious veracity because defectors are frequently paid for their interviews. Etzedek24 ( I'll talk at ya) ( Check my track record) 19:25, 3 August 2023 (UTC)