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I see you've been adding the Swiss cantons to Cantons of Switzerland (nice work BTW) and List of capitals of subnational entities, as well as changing Basle back to Basel. The issue is that we have decided to use English terms for places where available. In adapting the template to Switzerland I have followed the English placenames used by the Swiss federal government, see here. I know, "Basel" is often used in English, partly because native German speakers would use it when writing English (the city website does so as well), partly because the difference is minimal, but the fact remains there is a separate English name for the city. Likewise for Argovia, Thurgovia, Saint Gall, Grisons, etc. Is there any reason we should not follow the names given by the federal government? Danke/Merci/Grazie/...I don't speak Romansh ;) -Scipius 19:22 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)
I was the one who changed that as I was following the federal cantons page. As said, Basel is not that much of an issue, since the difference is minimal, even if "Basle" can still be used. As for others where the difference is larger (Grisons/Graubünden), it's best to be consistent is naming the canton and if there is a different English form, then why not use it? Redirects take care of the rest. It's certainly the case that there is a tendency to use local names, but it can easily become a slippery slope (which do we anglicise and which not?), so my opinion would be to be a bit conservative. As for "Argovia" and "Thurgovia" seeming Latin, that is entirely logical. English often uses either Latin names or French names (see Grisons), especially in areas close to where French is spoken. This is the case in Belgium, but also for cities like Cologne. -Scipius 21:27 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)
(Moved here from User talk:Docu):
Is it really necessary to create xxxx(canton) and redirect them to Canton of xxxx? -- wshun 23:04, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I don't think that is so much differences. Anyway, do you start to rewrite all articles Canton of xxxx. Now many xxxx(canton) are just doubly redirect to xxxx, which do not work well in Wikipedia. wshun 01:29, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Shouldn't we remove Spanish and Esperanto from the Names in other languages section? I mean this table is potentially very large because there are many more languages that have designated names/spellings for Swiss cities (at least some of them). Having the four "official" languages and English (the language of the encyclopedia) seems reasonable to me. To me having the Spanish/Esperanto names belongs to the Spanish and Esperanto version of Wikipedia respectively. Any views? diwiki 13:54, 9 Sep 2003 (EDT)
Feel free to translate this article into spanish or esperanto if these are your favorite languages. However, they are not swiss languages and have nothing to do on this page. No more than chinese, swaheli or bulgarian anyway. -- 212.254.96.12 11:45, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
What's left of "Swiss Radio International", namely: www.swissinfo.org uses english, deutsch, français, italiano, español, portugês, japanese, arabic and chinese on their homepage, FYI. So don't try to advocate esperanto by using false information. And a consensus for such questions has been found a long time ago: it's called wikipedia guidelines. It has never been wikipedia policy to add information to the english wikipedia in another language just because "it's one of most important international languages". Spanish has its own wikipedia because "it's one of most important international languages"! As I said: They are not swiss languages, so feel free to translate this article into spanish or esperanto like it's done everywhere else in the wikipedia.
Remove Stick to wikipedia guidelines. Stay on topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ? ( talk • contribs)
Agree Remove Spanish and Esperanto. At least put them on a seperate page "List of swiss canton names in all languages" or so. There you could include even latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ? ( talk • contribs)
There's a link to canton at the top of the article, but neither here nor there a proper definition of a canton is given. I think we should remove the link to canton and provide a proper defintion in the Swiss context at the top of this article. Any thoughts anyone? diwiki 21:55, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I suggest we use the following spellings:
See Talk:Switzerland for more. Kokiri 18:38, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The number of municipalities for Geneva is shown as being 44; what is the source for this number ? I'm 99% confident (diplomatic way to say 100% ;-) that the correct number is 45. Canton of Geneva lists 45 names. I was going to make a change but was wondering where the total comes from: should I add 1 to it as well, or does it come from another source ? Schutz 00:09, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
More generally, should we try to update this table ? Some numbers are very outdated: in Fribourg, many municipalities have merged in the meantime: according to [2], the number was indeed 242 in 2000, but only 202 in early 2003, and still going down... Schutz 10:38, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There is a mild error in the number of Swiss cantons. There are 23 of them, not 26. The error is due to the half cantons which were counted as full ones.
Basel-Stadt and Basel-Land are two half cantons forming the canton of Basel. Appenzell Innerrhoden and Ausserrhoden are two half cantons building the Appenzell. Nidwalden and Obwalden are two half cantons forming Unterwald.
This has a political signification, since each canton sends two deputies to the States' Council. While each half canton has the right to send one deputy, not two. -- 83.228.183.253
Sorry, whatever way you want to count and explain: Basel is a global denomination without political meaning, just as Appenzel and Unterwald. In fact, Switzerland has effectively 26 full fledged cantons. The notion of half canton reflects only in the deputation to the Swiss "Senate", the "Ständerat*, where the so called "half cantons" have only one deputy. Otherwise politically and officially, there are no half cantons. Half cantons count as a full canton, as each one has their own government, organisation and legal power. Each one elects and sends profortionally their own representatives in our Congress (Nationalrat). Please review your knowledge of Switzerland political organislation.. Beware of that, e.g. AI is basically catholic, AR, basically protestant. Don't revise the results of the Swiss civil war! For the others, there are also historic reasons for their split. Best regards. I do not mind merging both articles into one, as long as the facts and reasons explained in the "half canton" article remain. In conclusion, Switzerland has effectively 26 cantons and not 23!
claude ( talk) 23:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Docu, I don't understand your reversal of my latest edit.
Why do you insist on having e.g. Zürich (Zurich) and Basel-Stadt (Basle-City) but Lucerne and not Luzern (Lucerne), Geneva and not Genève (Geneva)?
IMHO the cantons' names should either all be listed in English only or all in the language spoken in the canton with English in brackets but not sometimes the one and sometimes the other. -- Tonymec 11:21, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Most of the data in the table is 5 years old or more, and should probably be updated. For example, the number of municipalities in the canton of Fribourg is now 162, down from 242 ! However, this need to be a concerted work, but since we just started a new year, I would propose that we should try to update all the data as of 1 January 2006. I know 2000 was the year of the last census, but most of the information should be available for the end of 2005 too. Schutz 23:37, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
In the table listing all the cantons including their population, the population data for Basel-Stadt is incorrect. Currently it is showing "2,002,981" but should be "200,298". Looking at the source of the page, the population is retrieved using a template function. I do not know how to debug this, so I will leave it to a more expert user to figure out how to correct this. 188.155.19.226 ( talk) 22:55, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Although the list of cantons is in the order it is given in the constitution, it doesn't look like it's in any order at all. Is there any reason why the list can't be in, for example, alphabetical order, order of introduction to the Confederation, area or population? What relevance does the order in the constitution have to each individual canton, and why can't we explain it in a different part of the article to make the list easier to view? ZanderSchubert 00:26, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
While it's my understanding that Swiss cantons no longer have officially established churches, it's also my understanding that, before 1848, they did, and that the traditional religious identity of various cantons as either Protestant or Catholic is fairly significant, perhaps nearly as much as language. Would it be worthwhile to indicate whether a particular canton is traditionally protestant or Catholic, either in the table or somewhere else? john k 15:14, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Needless to say, it makes perfect sense having the names of all the cantons in the four languages of Switzerland and in English on the English Wikipedia. Having said that, I fail to see how the names of the Swiss cantons in Spanish and Esperanto are relevant. I suggest they be removed from the article. JdeJ 08:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
While the flags on this page are adequate, the ones featured on the french translation have a much grander appearance. I propose switching to those flags. I would do it, but I do not know how. Skunkboy72 21:37, 29 April 2009
Should this be included in the 'see also'? Yes, there are many noteworthy castles in Switzerland, but how does this specifically relate to Switzerland's cantons? To me it makes about as much sense as linking to Public holidays in Switzerland or Health care in Switzerland. The list of castles link is probably more suitable on History of Switzerland, or Outline of Switzerland, but I'm not so sure about this one. Hayden120 ( talk) 22:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
The lower map image should be changed, as both the key and description in the image are in German. This is an English page, so untranslated descriptions in German as part of the article are totally unnaceptable. 90.192.145.153 ( talk) 13:30, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
In December 2015, User:ZH8000 inserted "lieu" as an English alternative for "canton". [3] This was done without any explanatory edit summary, and without citing even an obscure reference that might have used this word. Why would you do something like this? It clearly deteriorates article quality if you leave the same footnotes in place but change the things the footnote is attached to, ending up with "references" that do no longer actually support the article content.
The fact of the matter is that the historical German term is Ort (early 15th century), joined by the more "political" Stand in the 16th. The French term was canton from about 1490, used in English from about 1610. Lieu seems to be an attempt at a French translation of Ort. Although, of course, canton is *already* the historical attempt to translate Ort, so lieu can only be seen as an attempt to explain the German word to contemporary French speakers. But, I have to add, translating "Ort" as "lieu" is based on a misunderstanding of the 15th-century German term informed by contemporary German; the "correct" translation of the historical term is "canton". Why would you conclude from this situation that "lieu" is a proper replacement for "canton" in English?? There is no good translation for "Ort" in English (except for the obscure equivalent ord). It means "location, place, spot, corner, point, gore". -- dab (𒁳) 09:11, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
The lead of this article states:
I'm not an expert on Swiss history, so I'm reluctant to contradict this, but what about the Helvetic Republic (1798–1803)?. -- chris_j_wood ( talk) 18:14, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
My German is very weak, but I'm confident in saying I don't see any word corresponding to 'confederation' in these phrases; they appear to mean 'Eight Old Districts' and 'Thirteen Old Districts'. Why not translate literally? — Tamfang ( talk) 21:06, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
It was an ad-hoc attempt to gloss the term on the part of whoever is in charge of maintaining English-language translations at eda.admin.ch [4] Neither a quotable source, nor was it intended as anything other than an explanatory gloss of the terms.
Much worse, the reference to "the Acht Alten Orte" in English is a misleading and incompetent handling of German adjective inflection. It uses the definite adjective inflection with the English definite article, this is just awkward. It should be either Die Acht Alten Orte or "the Acht Alte Orte". However, the term is a fixed expression, and it is never used without the definite article in German.
It is inept to try to provide "literal" translation of set historiographical terminology armed with a simple German-English dictionary. A translation which has actually been used in English historiographic literature is "the eight old cantons", but it is rather more common to just see "the eight cantons", with omission of translation of Alte.
-- dab (𒁳) 10:57, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
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As far as I know we always say "Swiss Confederation" in English - "Confederacy" is only used for the southern states of the USA that tried to secede. "Confederacy" is used no fewer than 11 times in this text. 46.183.103.8 ( talk) 17:52, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
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The map in the infobox is next to useless, since the cantons are not named on it. Is it too much to hope for a map of the cantons that actually shows their names? -- Viennese Waltz 12:37, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
Totally agree with you. It seems someone edited {{ Switzerland Cantons Labelled Map}}, making it unlabelled. I'm changing it back with labels, using a better, colored map version. -- Tomchen1989 ( talk) 18:18, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
For future concerns the designated editor is referred to the official English style guide by the Swiss Federal Administration.
It says on page 17:
I think this is a reasonable and usable distinction. -- ZH8000 ( talk) 12:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
It should be calculated automatically from the other columns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abacus1997 ( talk • contribs) 18:18, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
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![]() | Text and/or other creative content from Half canton was copied or moved into Cantons of Switzerland with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
I see you've been adding the Swiss cantons to Cantons of Switzerland (nice work BTW) and List of capitals of subnational entities, as well as changing Basle back to Basel. The issue is that we have decided to use English terms for places where available. In adapting the template to Switzerland I have followed the English placenames used by the Swiss federal government, see here. I know, "Basel" is often used in English, partly because native German speakers would use it when writing English (the city website does so as well), partly because the difference is minimal, but the fact remains there is a separate English name for the city. Likewise for Argovia, Thurgovia, Saint Gall, Grisons, etc. Is there any reason we should not follow the names given by the federal government? Danke/Merci/Grazie/...I don't speak Romansh ;) -Scipius 19:22 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)
I was the one who changed that as I was following the federal cantons page. As said, Basel is not that much of an issue, since the difference is minimal, even if "Basle" can still be used. As for others where the difference is larger (Grisons/Graubünden), it's best to be consistent is naming the canton and if there is a different English form, then why not use it? Redirects take care of the rest. It's certainly the case that there is a tendency to use local names, but it can easily become a slippery slope (which do we anglicise and which not?), so my opinion would be to be a bit conservative. As for "Argovia" and "Thurgovia" seeming Latin, that is entirely logical. English often uses either Latin names or French names (see Grisons), especially in areas close to where French is spoken. This is the case in Belgium, but also for cities like Cologne. -Scipius 21:27 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)
(Moved here from User talk:Docu):
Is it really necessary to create xxxx(canton) and redirect them to Canton of xxxx? -- wshun 23:04, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I don't think that is so much differences. Anyway, do you start to rewrite all articles Canton of xxxx. Now many xxxx(canton) are just doubly redirect to xxxx, which do not work well in Wikipedia. wshun 01:29, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Shouldn't we remove Spanish and Esperanto from the Names in other languages section? I mean this table is potentially very large because there are many more languages that have designated names/spellings for Swiss cities (at least some of them). Having the four "official" languages and English (the language of the encyclopedia) seems reasonable to me. To me having the Spanish/Esperanto names belongs to the Spanish and Esperanto version of Wikipedia respectively. Any views? diwiki 13:54, 9 Sep 2003 (EDT)
Feel free to translate this article into spanish or esperanto if these are your favorite languages. However, they are not swiss languages and have nothing to do on this page. No more than chinese, swaheli or bulgarian anyway. -- 212.254.96.12 11:45, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
What's left of "Swiss Radio International", namely: www.swissinfo.org uses english, deutsch, français, italiano, español, portugês, japanese, arabic and chinese on their homepage, FYI. So don't try to advocate esperanto by using false information. And a consensus for such questions has been found a long time ago: it's called wikipedia guidelines. It has never been wikipedia policy to add information to the english wikipedia in another language just because "it's one of most important international languages". Spanish has its own wikipedia because "it's one of most important international languages"! As I said: They are not swiss languages, so feel free to translate this article into spanish or esperanto like it's done everywhere else in the wikipedia.
Remove Stick to wikipedia guidelines. Stay on topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ? ( talk • contribs)
Agree Remove Spanish and Esperanto. At least put them on a seperate page "List of swiss canton names in all languages" or so. There you could include even latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ? ( talk • contribs)
There's a link to canton at the top of the article, but neither here nor there a proper definition of a canton is given. I think we should remove the link to canton and provide a proper defintion in the Swiss context at the top of this article. Any thoughts anyone? diwiki 21:55, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I suggest we use the following spellings:
See Talk:Switzerland for more. Kokiri 18:38, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The number of municipalities for Geneva is shown as being 44; what is the source for this number ? I'm 99% confident (diplomatic way to say 100% ;-) that the correct number is 45. Canton of Geneva lists 45 names. I was going to make a change but was wondering where the total comes from: should I add 1 to it as well, or does it come from another source ? Schutz 00:09, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
More generally, should we try to update this table ? Some numbers are very outdated: in Fribourg, many municipalities have merged in the meantime: according to [2], the number was indeed 242 in 2000, but only 202 in early 2003, and still going down... Schutz 10:38, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There is a mild error in the number of Swiss cantons. There are 23 of them, not 26. The error is due to the half cantons which were counted as full ones.
Basel-Stadt and Basel-Land are two half cantons forming the canton of Basel. Appenzell Innerrhoden and Ausserrhoden are two half cantons building the Appenzell. Nidwalden and Obwalden are two half cantons forming Unterwald.
This has a political signification, since each canton sends two deputies to the States' Council. While each half canton has the right to send one deputy, not two. -- 83.228.183.253
Sorry, whatever way you want to count and explain: Basel is a global denomination without political meaning, just as Appenzel and Unterwald. In fact, Switzerland has effectively 26 full fledged cantons. The notion of half canton reflects only in the deputation to the Swiss "Senate", the "Ständerat*, where the so called "half cantons" have only one deputy. Otherwise politically and officially, there are no half cantons. Half cantons count as a full canton, as each one has their own government, organisation and legal power. Each one elects and sends profortionally their own representatives in our Congress (Nationalrat). Please review your knowledge of Switzerland political organislation.. Beware of that, e.g. AI is basically catholic, AR, basically protestant. Don't revise the results of the Swiss civil war! For the others, there are also historic reasons for their split. Best regards. I do not mind merging both articles into one, as long as the facts and reasons explained in the "half canton" article remain. In conclusion, Switzerland has effectively 26 cantons and not 23!
claude ( talk) 23:22, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Docu, I don't understand your reversal of my latest edit.
Why do you insist on having e.g. Zürich (Zurich) and Basel-Stadt (Basle-City) but Lucerne and not Luzern (Lucerne), Geneva and not Genève (Geneva)?
IMHO the cantons' names should either all be listed in English only or all in the language spoken in the canton with English in brackets but not sometimes the one and sometimes the other. -- Tonymec 11:21, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Most of the data in the table is 5 years old or more, and should probably be updated. For example, the number of municipalities in the canton of Fribourg is now 162, down from 242 ! However, this need to be a concerted work, but since we just started a new year, I would propose that we should try to update all the data as of 1 January 2006. I know 2000 was the year of the last census, but most of the information should be available for the end of 2005 too. Schutz 23:37, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
In the table listing all the cantons including their population, the population data for Basel-Stadt is incorrect. Currently it is showing "2,002,981" but should be "200,298". Looking at the source of the page, the population is retrieved using a template function. I do not know how to debug this, so I will leave it to a more expert user to figure out how to correct this. 188.155.19.226 ( talk) 22:55, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Although the list of cantons is in the order it is given in the constitution, it doesn't look like it's in any order at all. Is there any reason why the list can't be in, for example, alphabetical order, order of introduction to the Confederation, area or population? What relevance does the order in the constitution have to each individual canton, and why can't we explain it in a different part of the article to make the list easier to view? ZanderSchubert 00:26, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
While it's my understanding that Swiss cantons no longer have officially established churches, it's also my understanding that, before 1848, they did, and that the traditional religious identity of various cantons as either Protestant or Catholic is fairly significant, perhaps nearly as much as language. Would it be worthwhile to indicate whether a particular canton is traditionally protestant or Catholic, either in the table or somewhere else? john k 15:14, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Needless to say, it makes perfect sense having the names of all the cantons in the four languages of Switzerland and in English on the English Wikipedia. Having said that, I fail to see how the names of the Swiss cantons in Spanish and Esperanto are relevant. I suggest they be removed from the article. JdeJ 08:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
While the flags on this page are adequate, the ones featured on the french translation have a much grander appearance. I propose switching to those flags. I would do it, but I do not know how. Skunkboy72 21:37, 29 April 2009
Should this be included in the 'see also'? Yes, there are many noteworthy castles in Switzerland, but how does this specifically relate to Switzerland's cantons? To me it makes about as much sense as linking to Public holidays in Switzerland or Health care in Switzerland. The list of castles link is probably more suitable on History of Switzerland, or Outline of Switzerland, but I'm not so sure about this one. Hayden120 ( talk) 22:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
The lower map image should be changed, as both the key and description in the image are in German. This is an English page, so untranslated descriptions in German as part of the article are totally unnaceptable. 90.192.145.153 ( talk) 13:30, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
In December 2015, User:ZH8000 inserted "lieu" as an English alternative for "canton". [3] This was done without any explanatory edit summary, and without citing even an obscure reference that might have used this word. Why would you do something like this? It clearly deteriorates article quality if you leave the same footnotes in place but change the things the footnote is attached to, ending up with "references" that do no longer actually support the article content.
The fact of the matter is that the historical German term is Ort (early 15th century), joined by the more "political" Stand in the 16th. The French term was canton from about 1490, used in English from about 1610. Lieu seems to be an attempt at a French translation of Ort. Although, of course, canton is *already* the historical attempt to translate Ort, so lieu can only be seen as an attempt to explain the German word to contemporary French speakers. But, I have to add, translating "Ort" as "lieu" is based on a misunderstanding of the 15th-century German term informed by contemporary German; the "correct" translation of the historical term is "canton". Why would you conclude from this situation that "lieu" is a proper replacement for "canton" in English?? There is no good translation for "Ort" in English (except for the obscure equivalent ord). It means "location, place, spot, corner, point, gore". -- dab (𒁳) 09:11, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
The lead of this article states:
I'm not an expert on Swiss history, so I'm reluctant to contradict this, but what about the Helvetic Republic (1798–1803)?. -- chris_j_wood ( talk) 18:14, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
My German is very weak, but I'm confident in saying I don't see any word corresponding to 'confederation' in these phrases; they appear to mean 'Eight Old Districts' and 'Thirteen Old Districts'. Why not translate literally? — Tamfang ( talk) 21:06, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
It was an ad-hoc attempt to gloss the term on the part of whoever is in charge of maintaining English-language translations at eda.admin.ch [4] Neither a quotable source, nor was it intended as anything other than an explanatory gloss of the terms.
Much worse, the reference to "the Acht Alten Orte" in English is a misleading and incompetent handling of German adjective inflection. It uses the definite adjective inflection with the English definite article, this is just awkward. It should be either Die Acht Alten Orte or "the Acht Alte Orte". However, the term is a fixed expression, and it is never used without the definite article in German.
It is inept to try to provide "literal" translation of set historiographical terminology armed with a simple German-English dictionary. A translation which has actually been used in English historiographic literature is "the eight old cantons", but it is rather more common to just see "the eight cantons", with omission of translation of Alte.
-- dab (𒁳) 10:57, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
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As far as I know we always say "Swiss Confederation" in English - "Confederacy" is only used for the southern states of the USA that tried to secede. "Confederacy" is used no fewer than 11 times in this text. 46.183.103.8 ( talk) 17:52, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:56, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
The map in the infobox is next to useless, since the cantons are not named on it. Is it too much to hope for a map of the cantons that actually shows their names? -- Viennese Waltz 12:37, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
Totally agree with you. It seems someone edited {{ Switzerland Cantons Labelled Map}}, making it unlabelled. I'm changing it back with labels, using a better, colored map version. -- Tomchen1989 ( talk) 18:18, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
For future concerns the designated editor is referred to the official English style guide by the Swiss Federal Administration.
It says on page 17:
I think this is a reasonable and usable distinction. -- ZH8000 ( talk) 12:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
It should be calculated automatically from the other columns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abacus1997 ( talk • contribs) 18:18, 13 June 2021 (UTC)