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I can't find any source for the alleged massacre. Lehi's site, the UN list and even anti Israeli/Jewish sites don't list this event. The only bombing listed is the first one on the 29th (wrongly written as on the 28th). I think Times was simply wrong, if this report existed (want to see it...) , it doesn't make sense that Lehi won't take credit for this operation if it was true. And nobody seems to know this incident. Sources needed here. Amoruso 01:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Sources that refute this alleged bombong :
from a UN committee 01 October 1948 - doesn't mention the incident.
Amoruso 01:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Your sources are not adequate. I added a second reference. The first paragraph of the Palestine Post report reads: "BINYAMINA, Wednesday--About 40 Arabs were killed and 60 were injured when a train was derailed by a mine between here and Zichron Yaacov at 1 o'clock this afternoon. The attack was carried out by the Stern group." The last sentence in the article says that none of the soldiers on the train were hurt. -- Zero talk 02:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The full text of the Palestine Post is available on the web. Now we have two sources that are "reliable" by Wikipedia rules and both tell the same story. Your personal doubts do not constitute a case for a tag. Actually this event is perfectly consistent with Lehi's behaviour. -- Zero talk 03:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
No good at Google? The link is in Palestine Post. -- Zero talk 13:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
First of all, have a look at this link referenced from the List of massacres committed during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war : [4] this list says that on the 31 March two bombings happened :
34 - "Haifa (Jaffa) Train" Massacre - 31 March 1948 The "Haganah" Zionist gang blew up the Jaffa-Haifa Train" while passing near "Nataniya", killing 40 people.(34)
35 - "Cairo-Haifa Train" Massacre - 31 March 1948 The "Stern" Zionist gang planted mines in the "Cairo�Haifa" express train, killing 40 persons and injuring
Strange no ? Two bomnbing on the same train with the same number of killed. Very accurate no doubt.
Now let's examine what soruces we have here. One is a Times report - does User:Zero0000:Zero0000 have a link for this ? The other is a Palstine Post link. Let's see what it actually says - it blames the "Stern Gang" for it, but why ? Is there any evidence linking the group ? None that we know. There are millions of articles in Israel linking attacks to certain organizations but until that organizaiton takes responsibility or admits it after being caught or Israel provides concrete proof of its involvement then one can't say that organization did it, simply a paper provides immediate-after-effect blame for that organization.
Furthermore, let's see what the paper said in the next day. Did it provide any statement from Lehi, some proof ? No, but it says on page 3 left column : "train service on the cairo hfaifa train has been resumed FOLLOWING THE WRECK near Binyamina on Wednesday" - since when is a terrorist bomb a wreck ? Usually an ACCIDENT is a wreck. Needless to say, it seems together with the other 2 sources already cited, that this is wrongfully linked to Lehi or possibly to any Jewish organization. Amoruso 15:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
This section does not comply with WP:V and has been removed: "However, Lehi, who is known for having a detailed account of all their operations, never took responsibility for this action. Furthermore, an alleged UN Report prepared in October 1 1948 for the New UN Commissioner to Palestine, allegdly compiled of all identified attacks on British, American and Arab individuals, using reports of the US Department of State, the British Foreign Office and various American and British press services, failed to mention this second bombing." -- Ian Pitchford 20:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The solution to this problem is to follow the rules of Wikipedia. We should state what the sources say and leave argument about it for a different forum. Arguing that it might not have happened because... is simply not allowed; we are only allowed to cite a reliable source (not ourselves) as making that argument, and we don't have one. We are also required to restrict ourselves to "reliable sources". The "UN Report" would quality as a reliable source except that we have no idea where it comes from and in particular we have no good reason to believe it is a UN report at all. There is no document of that name listed in the catalogue of the UN library. -- Zero talk 15:52, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Photographs would be nice and seem to exist.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124446949@N06/19779103409
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124446949@N06/19970655001
- IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 16:35, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the ArabâIsraeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I can't find any source for the alleged massacre. Lehi's site, the UN list and even anti Israeli/Jewish sites don't list this event. The only bombing listed is the first one on the 29th (wrongly written as on the 28th). I think Times was simply wrong, if this report existed (want to see it...) , it doesn't make sense that Lehi won't take credit for this operation if it was true. And nobody seems to know this incident. Sources needed here. Amoruso 01:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Sources that refute this alleged bombong :
from a UN committee 01 October 1948 - doesn't mention the incident.
Amoruso 01:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Your sources are not adequate. I added a second reference. The first paragraph of the Palestine Post report reads: "BINYAMINA, Wednesday--About 40 Arabs were killed and 60 were injured when a train was derailed by a mine between here and Zichron Yaacov at 1 o'clock this afternoon. The attack was carried out by the Stern group." The last sentence in the article says that none of the soldiers on the train were hurt. -- Zero talk 02:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
The full text of the Palestine Post is available on the web. Now we have two sources that are "reliable" by Wikipedia rules and both tell the same story. Your personal doubts do not constitute a case for a tag. Actually this event is perfectly consistent with Lehi's behaviour. -- Zero talk 03:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
No good at Google? The link is in Palestine Post. -- Zero talk 13:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
First of all, have a look at this link referenced from the List of massacres committed during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war : [4] this list says that on the 31 March two bombings happened :
34 - "Haifa (Jaffa) Train" Massacre - 31 March 1948 The "Haganah" Zionist gang blew up the Jaffa-Haifa Train" while passing near "Nataniya", killing 40 people.(34)
35 - "Cairo-Haifa Train" Massacre - 31 March 1948 The "Stern" Zionist gang planted mines in the "Cairo�Haifa" express train, killing 40 persons and injuring
Strange no ? Two bomnbing on the same train with the same number of killed. Very accurate no doubt.
Now let's examine what soruces we have here. One is a Times report - does User:Zero0000:Zero0000 have a link for this ? The other is a Palstine Post link. Let's see what it actually says - it blames the "Stern Gang" for it, but why ? Is there any evidence linking the group ? None that we know. There are millions of articles in Israel linking attacks to certain organizations but until that organizaiton takes responsibility or admits it after being caught or Israel provides concrete proof of its involvement then one can't say that organization did it, simply a paper provides immediate-after-effect blame for that organization.
Furthermore, let's see what the paper said in the next day. Did it provide any statement from Lehi, some proof ? No, but it says on page 3 left column : "train service on the cairo hfaifa train has been resumed FOLLOWING THE WRECK near Binyamina on Wednesday" - since when is a terrorist bomb a wreck ? Usually an ACCIDENT is a wreck. Needless to say, it seems together with the other 2 sources already cited, that this is wrongfully linked to Lehi or possibly to any Jewish organization. Amoruso 15:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
This section does not comply with WP:V and has been removed: "However, Lehi, who is known for having a detailed account of all their operations, never took responsibility for this action. Furthermore, an alleged UN Report prepared in October 1 1948 for the New UN Commissioner to Palestine, allegdly compiled of all identified attacks on British, American and Arab individuals, using reports of the US Department of State, the British Foreign Office and various American and British press services, failed to mention this second bombing." -- Ian Pitchford 20:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The solution to this problem is to follow the rules of Wikipedia. We should state what the sources say and leave argument about it for a different forum. Arguing that it might not have happened because... is simply not allowed; we are only allowed to cite a reliable source (not ourselves) as making that argument, and we don't have one. We are also required to restrict ourselves to "reliable sources". The "UN Report" would quality as a reliable source except that we have no idea where it comes from and in particular we have no good reason to believe it is a UN report at all. There is no document of that name listed in the catalogue of the UN library. -- Zero talk 15:52, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Photographs would be nice and seem to exist.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124446949@N06/19779103409
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124446949@N06/19970655001
- IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 16:35, 11 April 2024 (UTC)