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![]() | This article was nominated for merging with Banias on 8 Jauary 2022. The result of the discussion ( permanent link) was Merge. |
Caesarea Philippi only has one l.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 02:37, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
The current map depiction has strong POV overtones and is a digitally altered and skewed map that reflects partisan opinions. The Golan Heights have been under Israeli civilian control for 44.5 years. They have been under Syrian control for only 21. I have compiled a number of maps from reliable sources (including National Geographic and United Press International) showing the Golan as belonging to neither Israel nor Syria. Please note the UPI map. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] The Golan remains under defacto Israeli control and it’s disputed status should be reflected on corresponding maps. Moreover, Caesarea Philippi is a tourist attraction and as such it's status should at the very least be shown to be within the area of the controlling sovereign so that the reader who wishes to visit the subject area knows where he/she is going. Accordingly, I have replaced the existing non-neutral, digitally altered, partisan map with a more neutral depiction.-- Jiujitsuguy ( talk) 02:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
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@ Zero0000: Hi Zero. I don't know why this page exists. In my opinion, it should either be much clearer defined, or (far better) merged with Banias. I see no reason why it's been partially, if not very consistently detached from that topic/article. There is some focus by one of the editors on the Christian history of the site, but, as expected, it's been mixed by everyone else with everything else. It has no character of its own, or not sufficiently so as to justify having its own page. I could see why a page entitled "Christian Caesarea Philippi" could have enough readers and thus a justification (mainly the primacy of St Peter, the possibility of being the site of the Transfiguration, then the Church history throughout the ages). But this isn't that, and that fits quite nicely into the main Banias page, too. Good night, Arminden ( talk) 22:28, 1 February 2016 (UTC)Arminden Arminden ( talk) 22:28, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
I propose that Banias be merged into Caesarea Philippi, the name by which the site is better known in English (see, for example, page view statistics). Although the two articles ostensively cover different periods (an entirely unnecessary distinction), the Caesarea Philippi article claiming, "This article deals with the history of Banias between the Hellenistic and early Islamic periods," this is not true. Both articles cover the same periods, with slightly different focus. If merging these articles can be agreed upon, I volunteer to do it. — the Man in Question (in question) 19:04, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
"Having heard that at Caesarea Philippi, otherwise called Panease Paneades, a city of Phoenicia..."
Paneas yes, Paneades also, but Panease? Or even "Panease Paneades"?! Source is not online, Google finds no other independent source, so please check. Arminden ( talk) 16:52, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Ashley kennedy3 has ceased editing in 2014, so we're stuck with her 2008 edit. She wrote most of the article, thank you AK, now this is on others. Arminden ( talk) 17:02, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Arminden, as I am sure you are well aware, this is in Syrian territory. Whether or not one can reach the site from Syria is not relevant to that question, and we have standard pushpin maps on Wikipeida, and this one with "disputed area" added by some Wikipedia user is not that. Care to explain why we should be including non-neutral things like calling occupied territory "disputed territory" here? nableezy - 17:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Arminden, concerning your edit: [10], there is no info in the article that the occupation regime has proclaimed the site as a "national park". -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 17:27, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
If it is just within a national park it doesnt belong in that category and the template is out of place as well. nableezy - 22:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
@ Arminden:, fine, this covers a part of the history. Then compare History of the Yosemite area. This is a fairly clear either or for the category and template, either Caesarea Philippi or Banias is the national park. They arent both. The category and template says of Israel, this isnt even a in or out of Israel dispute. It's just a is this a national park, or is Banias the national park. And if they are both the same then they need to be in the same article. If this is a history of a portion of it, it should not be in the category. nableezy - 15:25, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
This site (!) IS on the list of Israel national parks. The site. Nowhere will you find PERIODS on that list. Apollonia = Arsuf = Arsur, Masada = Marda, Caco = Caqun, not to mention the walls of Jerusalem = Urusalem = Yerushalayim = Aelia Capitolina = Hagiopolis = Hierosolyma = 'Iliya = Beit el-Maqdis = el-Quds and so on. Sometimes a period gets an article of its own because this or that reason. The site, organised as a national park, naturally covers all periods. All else is bizarre. I really am out now, have a nice day. Arminden ( talk) 16:53, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, I do 't understand your last posting. Arminden ( talk) 21:31, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
There is very clearly no consensus for the addition of the category and template, and there have been policy based reasons offered that have not been refuted. Ive reverted the reinsertion. Either Banias or Caesarea Phillippi belong in the category, not both. nableezy - 21:36, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
It was you who brought up Yosemite National Park. Check it out:
Go to those categories and you'll find lots more. If the National Parks categ. has subsets, you can of course use them; Banias is smaller that the main ticket booth of Yosemite National Park - but if you want, you can still create one-item categories galore for it too. It has at least 2 toilets, 2 ticket booths, 3 entrances, lots of hiking paths, etc. One categ. for each. Really, I've lost my temper completely. Block me from this nonsense fair called Wiki and you're doing me a favour, my doctor will thank you. I'd rather keep my sanity than talk to walls, and use my time in a more useful manner than fight over the obvious. So do whatever you please, revert, block, call up THE SUPREME JUDGES, no need to keep me posted. Enjoy & over. OVER. Arminden ( talk) 22:48, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
I can't see a good justification for how this article is defined. Why is "Caesarea Philippi" covering the Hellenistic to Byzantine periods, and stops at the arrival of the Muslims? This name was only in use during Philip the Tetrarch's rule, so I guess it's about a Christian focus (Gospels), see also use of BC/AD instead of BCE/CE. Not very good criterion for an article dealing with history, and can be easily faulted as such: there's no obvious connection between the centuries of pagan history and the short episode of Jesus & Peter visiting the AREA, never the city itself, once. Why is 635 the end, when Hygeburg sees there in 780 a church and a "great many Christians"? There was a sharp decline, but not a trace of occupation gap, and the Umayyad period is sometimes considered as part of "classical antiquity", so no formal hindrance either. The Crusaders, not surprisingly, call it Belinas (from Paneas/Banias) and... Caesarea Philippi. But they don't belong here, because... Because?
Somebody needs to make the case for this split.
The mess I found in the article reflects perfectly well the poorly thought-over split. If one wishes to write an article about Jesus in the region of Caesarea Philippi ( Confession of Peter etc.), that is a rich subject. But as it is now, that is hardly addressed, so it cannot be counted as the raison d'être for this weird cut. Arminden ( talk) 05:17, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
44 gold coins were found here. Ref: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63122180 Update to article needed? 82.21.55.166 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:56, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is the
talk page of a
redirect that has been
merged and now targets the page: • Banias Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Talk:Banias Merged page edit history is maintained in order to preserve attributions. |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
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![]() | This article was nominated for merging with Banias on 8 Jauary 2022. The result of the discussion ( permanent link) was Merge. |
Caesarea Philippi only has one l.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 02:37, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
The current map depiction has strong POV overtones and is a digitally altered and skewed map that reflects partisan opinions. The Golan Heights have been under Israeli civilian control for 44.5 years. They have been under Syrian control for only 21. I have compiled a number of maps from reliable sources (including National Geographic and United Press International) showing the Golan as belonging to neither Israel nor Syria. Please note the UPI map. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] The Golan remains under defacto Israeli control and it’s disputed status should be reflected on corresponding maps. Moreover, Caesarea Philippi is a tourist attraction and as such it's status should at the very least be shown to be within the area of the controlling sovereign so that the reader who wishes to visit the subject area knows where he/she is going. Accordingly, I have replaced the existing non-neutral, digitally altered, partisan map with a more neutral depiction.-- Jiujitsuguy ( talk) 02:52, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
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Cyberbot II has detected links on Caesarea Philippi which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
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Cyberbot II has detected links on Caesarea Philippi which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
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Cyberbot II has detected links on Caesarea Philippi which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
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@ Zero0000: Hi Zero. I don't know why this page exists. In my opinion, it should either be much clearer defined, or (far better) merged with Banias. I see no reason why it's been partially, if not very consistently detached from that topic/article. There is some focus by one of the editors on the Christian history of the site, but, as expected, it's been mixed by everyone else with everything else. It has no character of its own, or not sufficiently so as to justify having its own page. I could see why a page entitled "Christian Caesarea Philippi" could have enough readers and thus a justification (mainly the primacy of St Peter, the possibility of being the site of the Transfiguration, then the Church history throughout the ages). But this isn't that, and that fits quite nicely into the main Banias page, too. Good night, Arminden ( talk) 22:28, 1 February 2016 (UTC)Arminden Arminden ( talk) 22:28, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
I propose that Banias be merged into Caesarea Philippi, the name by which the site is better known in English (see, for example, page view statistics). Although the two articles ostensively cover different periods (an entirely unnecessary distinction), the Caesarea Philippi article claiming, "This article deals with the history of Banias between the Hellenistic and early Islamic periods," this is not true. Both articles cover the same periods, with slightly different focus. If merging these articles can be agreed upon, I volunteer to do it. — the Man in Question (in question) 19:04, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
"Having heard that at Caesarea Philippi, otherwise called Panease Paneades, a city of Phoenicia..."
Paneas yes, Paneades also, but Panease? Or even "Panease Paneades"?! Source is not online, Google finds no other independent source, so please check. Arminden ( talk) 16:52, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Ashley kennedy3 has ceased editing in 2014, so we're stuck with her 2008 edit. She wrote most of the article, thank you AK, now this is on others. Arminden ( talk) 17:02, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Arminden, as I am sure you are well aware, this is in Syrian territory. Whether or not one can reach the site from Syria is not relevant to that question, and we have standard pushpin maps on Wikipeida, and this one with "disputed area" added by some Wikipedia user is not that. Care to explain why we should be including non-neutral things like calling occupied territory "disputed territory" here? nableezy - 17:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Arminden, concerning your edit: [10], there is no info in the article that the occupation regime has proclaimed the site as a "national park". -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 17:27, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
If it is just within a national park it doesnt belong in that category and the template is out of place as well. nableezy - 22:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
@ Arminden:, fine, this covers a part of the history. Then compare History of the Yosemite area. This is a fairly clear either or for the category and template, either Caesarea Philippi or Banias is the national park. They arent both. The category and template says of Israel, this isnt even a in or out of Israel dispute. It's just a is this a national park, or is Banias the national park. And if they are both the same then they need to be in the same article. If this is a history of a portion of it, it should not be in the category. nableezy - 15:25, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
This site (!) IS on the list of Israel national parks. The site. Nowhere will you find PERIODS on that list. Apollonia = Arsuf = Arsur, Masada = Marda, Caco = Caqun, not to mention the walls of Jerusalem = Urusalem = Yerushalayim = Aelia Capitolina = Hagiopolis = Hierosolyma = 'Iliya = Beit el-Maqdis = el-Quds and so on. Sometimes a period gets an article of its own because this or that reason. The site, organised as a national park, naturally covers all periods. All else is bizarre. I really am out now, have a nice day. Arminden ( talk) 16:53, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, I do 't understand your last posting. Arminden ( talk) 21:31, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
There is very clearly no consensus for the addition of the category and template, and there have been policy based reasons offered that have not been refuted. Ive reverted the reinsertion. Either Banias or Caesarea Phillippi belong in the category, not both. nableezy - 21:36, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
It was you who brought up Yosemite National Park. Check it out:
Go to those categories and you'll find lots more. If the National Parks categ. has subsets, you can of course use them; Banias is smaller that the main ticket booth of Yosemite National Park - but if you want, you can still create one-item categories galore for it too. It has at least 2 toilets, 2 ticket booths, 3 entrances, lots of hiking paths, etc. One categ. for each. Really, I've lost my temper completely. Block me from this nonsense fair called Wiki and you're doing me a favour, my doctor will thank you. I'd rather keep my sanity than talk to walls, and use my time in a more useful manner than fight over the obvious. So do whatever you please, revert, block, call up THE SUPREME JUDGES, no need to keep me posted. Enjoy & over. OVER. Arminden ( talk) 22:48, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
I can't see a good justification for how this article is defined. Why is "Caesarea Philippi" covering the Hellenistic to Byzantine periods, and stops at the arrival of the Muslims? This name was only in use during Philip the Tetrarch's rule, so I guess it's about a Christian focus (Gospels), see also use of BC/AD instead of BCE/CE. Not very good criterion for an article dealing with history, and can be easily faulted as such: there's no obvious connection between the centuries of pagan history and the short episode of Jesus & Peter visiting the AREA, never the city itself, once. Why is 635 the end, when Hygeburg sees there in 780 a church and a "great many Christians"? There was a sharp decline, but not a trace of occupation gap, and the Umayyad period is sometimes considered as part of "classical antiquity", so no formal hindrance either. The Crusaders, not surprisingly, call it Belinas (from Paneas/Banias) and... Caesarea Philippi. But they don't belong here, because... Because?
Somebody needs to make the case for this split.
The mess I found in the article reflects perfectly well the poorly thought-over split. If one wishes to write an article about Jesus in the region of Caesarea Philippi ( Confession of Peter etc.), that is a rich subject. But as it is now, that is hardly addressed, so it cannot be counted as the raison d'être for this weird cut. Arminden ( talk) 05:17, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
44 gold coins were found here. Ref: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63122180 Update to article needed? 82.21.55.166 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:56, 3 October 2022 (UTC)