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Cadwaladr biography is on Wikipedia. i simply wanted to suggest that Cadwaladr is mentioned as an ancestor of Edmund Tudor, husband of Margaret Beaufort, Queen Mother of Henry V11. The book is THE RED QUEEN by Phillipa Gregory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.114.160.201 ( talk) 19:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
A claimed citation from a book dated 1869(!) is given to support the following contention: "Geoffrey's story of Cadwaladr's traveling to Rome may have originated from a version of the Brut y Tywysogion (English: Chronicle of the Princes), which contains the assertion." The Welsh Brut is, in fact, a Welsh translation of Geoffrey; and the citation provides no support whasoever for the contention. Both the claim and the citation have been justifiably deleted from the article text. It is absurd in any case that this kind of outdated scholarship would be cited in a 21st-century encylopedia. RandomCritic ( talk) 01:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm coming a bit late to this conversation, but I'd like to see if we can't sort this out. In my opinion, the line about the possibility of Geoffrey getting the Cadwaladr story from a version of the
Brut y Tywysogion (which is not simply a translation of Geoffrey, as it contains mostly material that does not appear in Geoffrey), may be appropriate. However, I can't find where in Haddan and Stubbs that claim appears. If we have a direct quote, I see absolutely no problem with a line saying something like, "According to Haddan and Stubbs, Geoffrey's story of Cadwaladr's traveling to
Rome may have originated from a version of the
Brut y Tywysogion, the extant versions of which contain such an assertion." I don't think the line saying "Aside from the questionable reliability of the source, it is virtually impossible that a Welsh king would have made a pilgrimage to Rome at the very height of the great schism between Rome and the
Celtic Church, though it became common for them to do so 200 years later" is necessary, however. Nothing against H&S, but the comment seems to be based 19th-century conceptions of the "Celtic Church" and its animosity with Rome, which don't match up with the modern consensus. There are plenty of other good reasons why it's dubious that Cadwaladr went to Rome.
Notuncurious, I think if we can get the page number for H&S and attribute the interpretation to their authority in the text, the material should be included.-- Cúchullain t/ c 19:30, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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This edit
[1] adds having first appeared in Alexander Nisbet’s 1718 work, An Essay on the Ancient and Modern Use of Armor
. This is unreferenced and also speculative. It seems this claim is made in a YouTube video, and the author of the video may be correct, but they themself only say this is the first usage they can find. If they publish their research, we would have a source we could quote for some appropriate wording, but as it stands, this claim cannot be in the article. I'll pre-emptively say, please don't quote the video as a source. It was quoting unsuitable sources that got the wrong information in the other articles in the first place.
Sirfurboy🏄 (
talk) 08:26, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Cadwaladr biography is on Wikipedia. i simply wanted to suggest that Cadwaladr is mentioned as an ancestor of Edmund Tudor, husband of Margaret Beaufort, Queen Mother of Henry V11. The book is THE RED QUEEN by Phillipa Gregory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.114.160.201 ( talk) 19:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
A claimed citation from a book dated 1869(!) is given to support the following contention: "Geoffrey's story of Cadwaladr's traveling to Rome may have originated from a version of the Brut y Tywysogion (English: Chronicle of the Princes), which contains the assertion." The Welsh Brut is, in fact, a Welsh translation of Geoffrey; and the citation provides no support whasoever for the contention. Both the claim and the citation have been justifiably deleted from the article text. It is absurd in any case that this kind of outdated scholarship would be cited in a 21st-century encylopedia. RandomCritic ( talk) 01:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm coming a bit late to this conversation, but I'd like to see if we can't sort this out. In my opinion, the line about the possibility of Geoffrey getting the Cadwaladr story from a version of the
Brut y Tywysogion (which is not simply a translation of Geoffrey, as it contains mostly material that does not appear in Geoffrey), may be appropriate. However, I can't find where in Haddan and Stubbs that claim appears. If we have a direct quote, I see absolutely no problem with a line saying something like, "According to Haddan and Stubbs, Geoffrey's story of Cadwaladr's traveling to
Rome may have originated from a version of the
Brut y Tywysogion, the extant versions of which contain such an assertion." I don't think the line saying "Aside from the questionable reliability of the source, it is virtually impossible that a Welsh king would have made a pilgrimage to Rome at the very height of the great schism between Rome and the
Celtic Church, though it became common for them to do so 200 years later" is necessary, however. Nothing against H&S, but the comment seems to be based 19th-century conceptions of the "Celtic Church" and its animosity with Rome, which don't match up with the modern consensus. There are plenty of other good reasons why it's dubious that Cadwaladr went to Rome.
Notuncurious, I think if we can get the page number for H&S and attribute the interpretation to their authority in the text, the material should be included.-- Cúchullain t/ c 19:30, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:32, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:22, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
This edit
[1] adds having first appeared in Alexander Nisbet’s 1718 work, An Essay on the Ancient and Modern Use of Armor
. This is unreferenced and also speculative. It seems this claim is made in a YouTube video, and the author of the video may be correct, but they themself only say this is the first usage they can find. If they publish their research, we would have a source we could quote for some appropriate wording, but as it stands, this claim cannot be in the article. I'll pre-emptively say, please don't quote the video as a source. It was quoting unsuitable sources that got the wrong information in the other articles in the first place.
Sirfurboy🏄 (
talk) 08:26, 27 November 2023 (UTC)