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To-do list for Byzantine–Seljuk wars:
|
Somebody please make a campaign box for this war with the following battles:
AND WITH ALL HASTE!
Tourskin 15:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for whoever added the picture. Tourskin 00:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I've added lots of references, lots of images and think this article deserves a little more than start class. Tourskin 18:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah so come on, don't be shy, please do tell! Tourskin 05:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The article is informative, with nice photos and maps, but it needs more work in prose, analysis, and comprehensiveness. I hope that these comments will help you?-- Yannismarou 22:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi and sorry I didn't reply to your first message. You're doing a great job the the Byzantine-Seljuk article. I'm sorry I didn't contribute to the Byzantine-Sassanid war as I had promised but I was never given the chance. We were driven away by Mardavich and Azerbaijani until a "consensus" between them was reached and of course the only result was to halt the constructive contributions. As for the Battle of Manzikert, the answer is "because people are POV-pushing". The 15,000 figure does not even appear on the linked source [1]. I'll get back to it once I resume my normal editing routine. Thanks for the notice. Miskin 23:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
This article shows great problem, but I think we need to source more of the comments in the analysis section, including by naming the historians who have reached these conclusions, to avoid violating WP:OR. I would help, but I know nothing about this period. Argos' Dad 00:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I can't see much more to improve to the analysis section at the moment, much of it is either obvious (i.e. the Byzantines lost lots of land) or sourced. Tourskin 14:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
1. Well written?: I think that the article is well written. I think that some extra paragraphs should have been made to split up the large amounts of writing further and I have done this. 2. Factually accurate?: It appears accurate. There are some uncited paragraphs and these should be fixed. 3. Broad in coverage?: I think that it is broad in coverage. 4. Neutral point of view?: Seems neutral. 5. Article stability? Yes, it seems stable. 6. Images?: Good maps.
So I am pleased to imform you that this article has met the GA criteria and has passed. Good luck and I hope you inprove the article fyrther. Kyriakos 14:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Conflicts, battles and military exercises" articles. I believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have made several minor corrections and fixes myself. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed.
If these are not addressed within seven days (the main requirements being 1 & 3), the article may be delisted. If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. I will leave notices on the talk pages of the main contributors to this article along with related WikiProjects to ensure that the above issues are addressed by the appropriate people. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page. Happy editing! -- Nehrams2020 07:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Good work on addressing the above issues, and at this time the article continues to meet the requirements of the GA criteria. I still think that an inline citation should be added for #3, as although it may be widely known, not everybody knows about it, and readers would appreciate a source to find information on it. I looked through Google and couldn't find anything myself, and without an inline citation, I can't verify if it's true or not. Since the editors here may have knowledge of it and know it to be true, a source should be added for the uneducated. Continue to improve the article, ensuring all new information is properly sourced. If you disagree with this review, you can seek an alternate opinion at Good article reassessment. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. -- Nehrams2020 22:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
What documentation do we have for the Seljuqs of Rum using such a flag? The image is labeled in Turkish "Great Seljuk State". Please provide a source at Image talk:Buyuk selcuklu devleti.gif. Aramgar 14:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The term "Great Seljuk" usually designates the Empire founded in Central Asia and Iran during the first half of the 11th century. The Seljuk Sultanate of Rûm is the realted state in Anatolia. Does the word devlet apply only to the Anatolian Seljuks?
About the flag: "some dude Ivan" probably does not count as reliable source (vide WP:RS). Is it possible to find this dude Ivan's source? Aramgar 20:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Please review WP:RS. Not just any website counts as a reliable source. Even the guy called Ivan says that it is an "alleged flag." To me this does not seem a strong enough reason to include it on this page or any other page mentioning the Seljuks of Rum. Aramgar 19:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
His name is Ivan Sauche and hes associated with an organization called "Flags of the World", here: http://fotw.net/flags/index.html
If you're not satisfied than remove the flag. Tourskin 18:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I've tagged a number of the cites appearing here as unreliable sources. Websites like allempires.com, about.com, answers.com, aboutgeorgia.net, and the couple of personal webpages, are not WP:RS. They might contain convenient tertiary information to link to, but by their nature none of 'em ought to be relied upon to back up any statement. Not to say that the statements themselves necessarily aren't correct, but if they are then it should be a simple enough matter to find a more worthy & reliable source for them. Until better qualified sources can be supplied, IMO the reliance on these websites is problematic for retaining GA rating. -- cjllw ʘ TALK 23:48, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
In the introduction it is claimed that even after Manzikert, Byzantine rule over Asia Minor did not end immediately for 20 years. This asserion is questionable. Nicea the second most important city of Byzantine Empire was captured in 1077 just 6 years after the battle of Manzikert and İzmir, the western most point of Anatolia fell to Çaka Bey in 1081. It was only after the first crusade, Byzantine Empire could gain some of its former territory. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 13:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
There are a lot of references to about.com and answers.com, which have been marked as unreliable. I am pretty sure most editors would agree that these are not good enough. Would someone who watches this article be able to replace them (the have been here for a while). Otherwise this will probably need to be delisted as a Good article. AIRcorn (talk) 08:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
In section Origins it is claimed that Turks converted to Islam in the 7th and 8th centuries. I didn’t check the source Tiscali encyclopaedia . But this claim is not correct. In fact, mass conversion to Islam was much later, i.e., in mid 10th century. (see Kara-Khanid Khanate) Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 18:28, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
In this article two events are missing: The Second Crusade and the invasion of Mongols (i.e. battle of Kösedağ and consequently the decline of Seljuk power in Anatolia). Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 21:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
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Hello @ H20346
The issue with your edits is that you're pushing a one sided POV showing a long quotes list of Atrocities against the other faction, the issue is that these quotes are rhetorical and would use such inflammatory phases so it seemed like a very one-sided view, and an extensive use of Quotations which is unnecessary Please note that Wikipedia has a policy of maintaining a neutral point of view in its articles; see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view also with the page Byzantine–Ottoman wars, half of the article are just a long quotes having emotional wordings which is generally not suited to encyclopedic writing and really unnecessary, and if I attempt to correct this you would tell me I'm pushing a POV about Turks spreading hugs and kisses but that's absurd, no one is attempting to push any one sided point of view except you as you have attempted to do with Muslim conquest of Spain but was reverted by @ Iskandar323 and @ P Aculeius, due to copyright issues and a POV pushing.
while it's true this is a war and bloodshed happens, to an extent that it's necessary to dive into it, then there's no need for it, if your additions to the article mostly repeat things that are already mentioned, or overemphasize them in an unbalanced way or non-constructive detail when it doesn't have to, then I will probably delete it.
you should be aware that even other editors are pointing out your mistakes (refer to talk page) which could result in banning from editing privilege, regards.
عبدالرØمن4132 (
talk) 11:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
I've effectively wound the article back a little further to a previous status quo by removing the section first inserted - so far as I can see - by now-blocked Wojak6, removed and subsequently reinserted by unregistered editors (IPs). This way we leave intact the work done by other editors elsewhere on the article. NebY ( talk) 16:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Byzantine–Seljuk wars article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Byzantine–Seljuk wars was one of the Warfare good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
This Â
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To-do list for Byzantine–Seljuk wars:
|
Somebody please make a campaign box for this war with the following battles:
AND WITH ALL HASTE!
Tourskin 15:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for whoever added the picture. Tourskin 00:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I've added lots of references, lots of images and think this article deserves a little more than start class. Tourskin 18:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah so come on, don't be shy, please do tell! Tourskin 05:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The article is informative, with nice photos and maps, but it needs more work in prose, analysis, and comprehensiveness. I hope that these comments will help you?-- Yannismarou 22:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi and sorry I didn't reply to your first message. You're doing a great job the the Byzantine-Seljuk article. I'm sorry I didn't contribute to the Byzantine-Sassanid war as I had promised but I was never given the chance. We were driven away by Mardavich and Azerbaijani until a "consensus" between them was reached and of course the only result was to halt the constructive contributions. As for the Battle of Manzikert, the answer is "because people are POV-pushing". The 15,000 figure does not even appear on the linked source [1]. I'll get back to it once I resume my normal editing routine. Thanks for the notice. Miskin 23:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
This article shows great problem, but I think we need to source more of the comments in the analysis section, including by naming the historians who have reached these conclusions, to avoid violating WP:OR. I would help, but I know nothing about this period. Argos' Dad 00:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I can't see much more to improve to the analysis section at the moment, much of it is either obvious (i.e. the Byzantines lost lots of land) or sourced. Tourskin 14:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
1. Well written?: I think that the article is well written. I think that some extra paragraphs should have been made to split up the large amounts of writing further and I have done this. 2. Factually accurate?: It appears accurate. There are some uncited paragraphs and these should be fixed. 3. Broad in coverage?: I think that it is broad in coverage. 4. Neutral point of view?: Seems neutral. 5. Article stability? Yes, it seems stable. 6. Images?: Good maps.
So I am pleased to imform you that this article has met the GA criteria and has passed. Good luck and I hope you inprove the article fyrther. Kyriakos 14:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Conflicts, battles and military exercises" articles. I believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have made several minor corrections and fixes myself. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed.
If these are not addressed within seven days (the main requirements being 1 & 3), the article may be delisted. If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. I will leave notices on the talk pages of the main contributors to this article along with related WikiProjects to ensure that the above issues are addressed by the appropriate people. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page. Happy editing! -- Nehrams2020 07:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Good work on addressing the above issues, and at this time the article continues to meet the requirements of the GA criteria. I still think that an inline citation should be added for #3, as although it may be widely known, not everybody knows about it, and readers would appreciate a source to find information on it. I looked through Google and couldn't find anything myself, and without an inline citation, I can't verify if it's true or not. Since the editors here may have knowledge of it and know it to be true, a source should be added for the uneducated. Continue to improve the article, ensuring all new information is properly sourced. If you disagree with this review, you can seek an alternate opinion at Good article reassessment. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. -- Nehrams2020 22:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
What documentation do we have for the Seljuqs of Rum using such a flag? The image is labeled in Turkish "Great Seljuk State". Please provide a source at Image talk:Buyuk selcuklu devleti.gif. Aramgar 14:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The term "Great Seljuk" usually designates the Empire founded in Central Asia and Iran during the first half of the 11th century. The Seljuk Sultanate of Rûm is the realted state in Anatolia. Does the word devlet apply only to the Anatolian Seljuks?
About the flag: "some dude Ivan" probably does not count as reliable source (vide WP:RS). Is it possible to find this dude Ivan's source? Aramgar 20:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Please review WP:RS. Not just any website counts as a reliable source. Even the guy called Ivan says that it is an "alleged flag." To me this does not seem a strong enough reason to include it on this page or any other page mentioning the Seljuks of Rum. Aramgar 19:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
His name is Ivan Sauche and hes associated with an organization called "Flags of the World", here: http://fotw.net/flags/index.html
If you're not satisfied than remove the flag. Tourskin 18:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I've tagged a number of the cites appearing here as unreliable sources. Websites like allempires.com, about.com, answers.com, aboutgeorgia.net, and the couple of personal webpages, are not WP:RS. They might contain convenient tertiary information to link to, but by their nature none of 'em ought to be relied upon to back up any statement. Not to say that the statements themselves necessarily aren't correct, but if they are then it should be a simple enough matter to find a more worthy & reliable source for them. Until better qualified sources can be supplied, IMO the reliance on these websites is problematic for retaining GA rating. -- cjllw ʘ TALK 23:48, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
In the introduction it is claimed that even after Manzikert, Byzantine rule over Asia Minor did not end immediately for 20 years. This asserion is questionable. Nicea the second most important city of Byzantine Empire was captured in 1077 just 6 years after the battle of Manzikert and İzmir, the western most point of Anatolia fell to Çaka Bey in 1081. It was only after the first crusade, Byzantine Empire could gain some of its former territory. Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 13:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
There are a lot of references to about.com and answers.com, which have been marked as unreliable. I am pretty sure most editors would agree that these are not good enough. Would someone who watches this article be able to replace them (the have been here for a while). Otherwise this will probably need to be delisted as a Good article. AIRcorn (talk) 08:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
In section Origins it is claimed that Turks converted to Islam in the 7th and 8th centuries. I didn’t check the source Tiscali encyclopaedia . But this claim is not correct. In fact, mass conversion to Islam was much later, i.e., in mid 10th century. (see Kara-Khanid Khanate) Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 18:28, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
In this article two events are missing: The Second Crusade and the invasion of Mongols (i.e. battle of Kösedağ and consequently the decline of Seljuk power in Anatolia). Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 21:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Byzantine–Seljuq wars. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:30, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello @ H20346
The issue with your edits is that you're pushing a one sided POV showing a long quotes list of Atrocities against the other faction, the issue is that these quotes are rhetorical and would use such inflammatory phases so it seemed like a very one-sided view, and an extensive use of Quotations which is unnecessary Please note that Wikipedia has a policy of maintaining a neutral point of view in its articles; see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view also with the page Byzantine–Ottoman wars, half of the article are just a long quotes having emotional wordings which is generally not suited to encyclopedic writing and really unnecessary, and if I attempt to correct this you would tell me I'm pushing a POV about Turks spreading hugs and kisses but that's absurd, no one is attempting to push any one sided point of view except you as you have attempted to do with Muslim conquest of Spain but was reverted by @ Iskandar323 and @ P Aculeius, due to copyright issues and a POV pushing.
while it's true this is a war and bloodshed happens, to an extent that it's necessary to dive into it, then there's no need for it, if your additions to the article mostly repeat things that are already mentioned, or overemphasize them in an unbalanced way or non-constructive detail when it doesn't have to, then I will probably delete it.
you should be aware that even other editors are pointing out your mistakes (refer to talk page) which could result in banning from editing privilege, regards.
عبدالرØمن4132 (
talk) 11:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
I've effectively wound the article back a little further to a previous status quo by removing the section first inserted - so far as I can see - by now-blocked Wojak6, removed and subsequently reinserted by unregistered editors (IPs). This way we leave intact the work done by other editors elsewhere on the article. NebY ( talk) 16:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)