While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
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Can anyone explain why this bike club is headed with the "criminal organisation" info box? It also has the OutlawMotorcycleGroups template, but absolutely nothing in the article suggests they are illegal or criminal. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 19:11, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I haven't been around long enough to feel comfortable editing articles, but this one appears to be completely wrong under the "criminal activities" heading. The Wiki article says "a Brother Speed member was charged with concealing a dangerous weapon after his car was pulled over by police," but the newspaper article cited said the car was owned by a member of the Outsiders Motorcycle Club and it does not say that anyone in the car was arrested or charged with anything other than the ticket the Outsider got for driving with an expired license. Since the guns were found in the trunk, it doesn't appear that any crime was committed. It's legal to carry loaded firearms in the trunk of a vehicle in Oregon. ( http://www.usacarry.com/oregon_concealed_carry_permit_information.html) I don't see any evidence of any criminal activity by any Brother Speed member in the newspaper article cited. Jagcowan ( talk) 02:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
As it was originally written, the "criminal activities" section contained material misrepresentations of the source material. Prior to my edit, the Wiki article said: "On October 21, 2008, a Brother Speed member was charged with concealing a dangerous weapon after his car was pulled over by police in Eugene, Oregon. Police found a box of ammunition and two hand guns in the car. An Outsiders member and a Gypsy Joker were also riding in the vehicle at the time." However, the source cited for this information said that the car was driven my the Outsider, not the Brother Speed member. The source cited said that the Outsider was ticketed for driving with an expired license; it did not say anyone was arrested, much less charged with "concealing a dangerous weapon" or any other crime. Finally, the source cited said that the firearms were found in the trunk of the car, and carrying a firearm in the trunk of a car does not constitute "concealing a dangerous weapon" and is not illegal under Oregon law.
Since the "criminal activities" section as originally written was contradicted by the source cited in pretty much every material respect and the cited source did not describe any criminal activity by any Brother Speed member, I tried simply deleting the offending section, and provided the explanation that the source cited provided no evidence of criminal activities by any Brother Speed member. My edit was undone with the instructions: "Don't remove sourced data simply by saying 'it's wrong'. Discuss on talk page." (Never mind the fact I pointed out the specific problems with the article on the "talk" page days before I ventured in to correct the article myself.)
It seems quite silly to me that you can't delete "sourced data" when the the article totally misrepresents what the source says. It seems even sillier to include a "criminal activities" section where the activities described do not constitute a crime. However, rather than delete the mis-sourced information again and have the deletion undone again, I have gone through and rewritten the "criminal activities" section to bring it in line with the source cited. Of course, anyone reading the article will wonder why there is a "criminal activities" when the conduct described is not criminal, and perhaps someone with more editorial clout than I will either delete the "criminal activities" completely, as I tried to do the first time around, or find some actual verifiable source providing information regarding criminal activity by the Brother Speed club or its members. Jagcowan ( talk) 15:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
We have two law enforcemet sources saying Brother Speed is an "outlaw biker gang" or an "outlaw motorcycle club":
We do not have any sources saying Brother Speed engages in any criminal activity. At the moment, this is what the article says. Discuss, if desired. -- Dbratland ( talk) 23:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Law enforcement officials have labeled six motorcycle clubs in Oregon as 'outlaws.' The clubs frequently complain of police harassment and dispute the 'outlaw' label.Brother Speed: Colors: black and gold. Patch: winged skull with sunglasses. -- Dbratland ( talk) 00:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
This wiki refers to Brother Speed's origins in Boise, Idaho now having its mother chapter in Portland, Oregon. The mother chapter of Brother Speed was, is, and always be Boise, Idaho. 48hardtail —Preceding unsigned comment added by 48hardtail ( talk • contribs) 08:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
The External Link and Reference #5 links appear to be inactive. 67.161.220.240 ( talk) 01:57, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
all information that has been edited by shaolin punk is absolutely false but with several attempts by others to have it removed Wikipedia has not Ricotta219 ( talk) 04:42, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
It appears that the article subject has a disputed history with regard to its supposed criminal status, as well as editors associated with the subject removing sourced content to that effect. Is there a source reliability issue? and also are there any wp:reliable sources that dispute the group's criminal history that can be added? -- Lenny Marks ( talk) 21:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
In short: It is not enough for you to beleive or know that something is wrong, you have to have sources to back it up. I would recommend searching for wp:reliable sources about the history of this group that would refute its criminality. -- Lenny Marks ( talk) 23:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Is there a way to add a paragraph to this page for the charitable events the club has done in the communities it is active in? Here are a few examples: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2013/10/bikers_help_raise_money_for_po.html https://magicvalley.com/brother-speed-toy-run-best-charity-event/article_a0cb8e0a-d2fd-52ac-89ff-d2c9ab0d6749.html https://www.hillsboronewstimes.com/news/bikers-bring-toys-for-hillsboro-kids-families-in-need/article_b4c1b036-af83-58f4-aefc-7ba4480c514c.html https://www.kmvt.com/content/news/Brother-Speed-Motorcycle-Club-purchases-toys-for-the-Christmas-Council-565819971.html https://kobi5.com/news/local-motorcycle-club-buys-toys-for-children-117531/ https://www.nrtoday.com/news/motorcycle-club-to-hand-out-toys/article_dc2a46f2-765f-11ed-9f8a-a3e944840e2e.html In light of all the negative things that are listed on the page, there are many positives that the members of this club have done for their communities. Any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated. Brb232 ( talk) 14:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Can anyone explain why this bike club is headed with the "criminal organisation" info box? It also has the OutlawMotorcycleGroups template, but absolutely nothing in the article suggests they are illegal or criminal. -- Escape Orbit (Talk) 19:11, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I haven't been around long enough to feel comfortable editing articles, but this one appears to be completely wrong under the "criminal activities" heading. The Wiki article says "a Brother Speed member was charged with concealing a dangerous weapon after his car was pulled over by police," but the newspaper article cited said the car was owned by a member of the Outsiders Motorcycle Club and it does not say that anyone in the car was arrested or charged with anything other than the ticket the Outsider got for driving with an expired license. Since the guns were found in the trunk, it doesn't appear that any crime was committed. It's legal to carry loaded firearms in the trunk of a vehicle in Oregon. ( http://www.usacarry.com/oregon_concealed_carry_permit_information.html) I don't see any evidence of any criminal activity by any Brother Speed member in the newspaper article cited. Jagcowan ( talk) 02:44, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
As it was originally written, the "criminal activities" section contained material misrepresentations of the source material. Prior to my edit, the Wiki article said: "On October 21, 2008, a Brother Speed member was charged with concealing a dangerous weapon after his car was pulled over by police in Eugene, Oregon. Police found a box of ammunition and two hand guns in the car. An Outsiders member and a Gypsy Joker were also riding in the vehicle at the time." However, the source cited for this information said that the car was driven my the Outsider, not the Brother Speed member. The source cited said that the Outsider was ticketed for driving with an expired license; it did not say anyone was arrested, much less charged with "concealing a dangerous weapon" or any other crime. Finally, the source cited said that the firearms were found in the trunk of the car, and carrying a firearm in the trunk of a car does not constitute "concealing a dangerous weapon" and is not illegal under Oregon law.
Since the "criminal activities" section as originally written was contradicted by the source cited in pretty much every material respect and the cited source did not describe any criminal activity by any Brother Speed member, I tried simply deleting the offending section, and provided the explanation that the source cited provided no evidence of criminal activities by any Brother Speed member. My edit was undone with the instructions: "Don't remove sourced data simply by saying 'it's wrong'. Discuss on talk page." (Never mind the fact I pointed out the specific problems with the article on the "talk" page days before I ventured in to correct the article myself.)
It seems quite silly to me that you can't delete "sourced data" when the the article totally misrepresents what the source says. It seems even sillier to include a "criminal activities" section where the activities described do not constitute a crime. However, rather than delete the mis-sourced information again and have the deletion undone again, I have gone through and rewritten the "criminal activities" section to bring it in line with the source cited. Of course, anyone reading the article will wonder why there is a "criminal activities" when the conduct described is not criminal, and perhaps someone with more editorial clout than I will either delete the "criminal activities" completely, as I tried to do the first time around, or find some actual verifiable source providing information regarding criminal activity by the Brother Speed club or its members. Jagcowan ( talk) 15:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
We have two law enforcemet sources saying Brother Speed is an "outlaw biker gang" or an "outlaw motorcycle club":
We do not have any sources saying Brother Speed engages in any criminal activity. At the moment, this is what the article says. Discuss, if desired. -- Dbratland ( talk) 23:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Law enforcement officials have labeled six motorcycle clubs in Oregon as 'outlaws.' The clubs frequently complain of police harassment and dispute the 'outlaw' label.Brother Speed: Colors: black and gold. Patch: winged skull with sunglasses. -- Dbratland ( talk) 00:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
This wiki refers to Brother Speed's origins in Boise, Idaho now having its mother chapter in Portland, Oregon. The mother chapter of Brother Speed was, is, and always be Boise, Idaho. 48hardtail —Preceding unsigned comment added by 48hardtail ( talk • contribs) 08:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
The External Link and Reference #5 links appear to be inactive. 67.161.220.240 ( talk) 01:57, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
all information that has been edited by shaolin punk is absolutely false but with several attempts by others to have it removed Wikipedia has not Ricotta219 ( talk) 04:42, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
It appears that the article subject has a disputed history with regard to its supposed criminal status, as well as editors associated with the subject removing sourced content to that effect. Is there a source reliability issue? and also are there any wp:reliable sources that dispute the group's criminal history that can be added? -- Lenny Marks ( talk) 21:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
In short: It is not enough for you to beleive or know that something is wrong, you have to have sources to back it up. I would recommend searching for wp:reliable sources about the history of this group that would refute its criminality. -- Lenny Marks ( talk) 23:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
Is there a way to add a paragraph to this page for the charitable events the club has done in the communities it is active in? Here are a few examples: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2013/10/bikers_help_raise_money_for_po.html https://magicvalley.com/brother-speed-toy-run-best-charity-event/article_a0cb8e0a-d2fd-52ac-89ff-d2c9ab0d6749.html https://www.hillsboronewstimes.com/news/bikers-bring-toys-for-hillsboro-kids-families-in-need/article_b4c1b036-af83-58f4-aefc-7ba4480c514c.html https://www.kmvt.com/content/news/Brother-Speed-Motorcycle-Club-purchases-toys-for-the-Christmas-Council-565819971.html https://kobi5.com/news/local-motorcycle-club-buys-toys-for-children-117531/ https://www.nrtoday.com/news/motorcycle-club-to-hand-out-toys/article_dc2a46f2-765f-11ed-9f8a-a3e944840e2e.html In light of all the negative things that are listed on the page, there are many positives that the members of this club have done for their communities. Any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated. Brb232 ( talk) 14:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)