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Oppose. Not under Brix. Could see merging all into Wine and brewing hydrometry. No. That doesn't work. How about Wine and beer hydrometry? No. Wine making and brewing hydrometry? No. Oppose awaiting better title. -- Saintrain 11:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose, also. Although they're all technically measuring the same thing, they have different histories and and are slightly different in their connotations. I can see merging the three in to a single article, just Brix isn't the right choice of title for it. Although, I'm kind of at a loss as to what would be the right name. --- The Bethling (Talk) 06:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Strongly oppose. The Baume measures of density are totally unrelated to the Brix measures of sugar concentration. Gene Nygaard 14:57, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
How about Hydrometry? Agne Cheese/ Wine 06:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
There's an existing article called must weight - my preference would be to expand that with a series of sections on the systems for measuring must weight in Germany, Austria etc, redirect Oeschle scale etc into must weight, and then if need be have a {{main|Brix}} etc heading for the more general measurement systems. FlagSteward 00:14, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
A quick google around seems to indicate that "Antoine Brix" actually was Adolph Brix; Antoine Baumé was the developer of the Baumé scale. However, there is now a growing perception that Brix was called Antoine (partially due to this page perpetuating this version of events). Could someone establish the correct version? -- Ott2 14:55, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
but brix in food is usually the pulp in the can and the number would man concentration.
The scientific usage section is very poor and just wrong. °Brix, measured by refractometer or by specific gravity (density) only ever gives the correct percentage by weight of sucrose for aqueous solutions of sucrose. For any other solution, the value may or may not bear a relation to sucrose content, depending obviously on whether the solution contains any sucrose and if so how much in relation to other soluble components. In addition, the refractive indices of the other components will also be important (if measuring with a refractometer). Measurements by refractive index and by specific gravity will only ever coincide (other than by luck) for pure sucrose solutions. It is not correct to say therefore that a solution (of any kind, e.g. fruit juice) of 20 °Brix contains 20% by weight of soluble solids. This is such a basic mistake and one that is made over and over (even by researchers who should know better) and thus perpetuated. I would therefore ask the author(s) to revise this section. In addition what is meant by an infrared brix meter is unclear. Are you talking about a digital refractometer?
Guy Self ( talk) 14:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC)Guy Self
The discussion result was no consensus |
I'd like to rename this Brix scale to match Baumé scale and Plato scale. Are there any objections? Biscuittin ( talk) 20:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
This formula appears to have a mistake, as it doesn't generate the correct answer
I would have thought a lot of people would come here trying to figure out what the brix value on a bottle of wine meant. It strikes me that it might be useful to report a table showing typical brix, both at harvest and in the bottle, for classical styles of wines. Anyone think this is a good or bad idea (or do you think it is more common to report residual sugar when it comes to the wine in the glass?) Bilz0r ( talk) 00:43, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brix#Brix_and_Actual_Dissolved_Solids_Content "...using a hand held instrument similar to the one in the photograph" - There's no photograph anywhere in this article. Was there one and it was removed? Was one intended to be added later? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.183.189.148 ( talk) 06:16, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Brix/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The scientific usage section is very poor and erroneous. °Brix, measured by refractometer or by specific gravity (density) only ever gives the correct percentage by weight of sucrose for aqueous solutions of sucrose. For any other solution, the value may or may not bear a relation to sucrose content, depending obviously on whether the solution contains any sucrose and if so how much in relation to other soluble components. In addition, the refractive indices of the other components will also be important (if measuring with a refractometer). Measurements by refractive index and by specific gravity will only ever coincide (other than by luck) for pure sucrose solutions. It is not correct to say therefore that a solution (of any kind, e.g. fruit juice) of 20 °Brix contains 20% by weight of soluble solids. This is such a basic mistake and one that is made over and over (even by researchers who should know better) and thus perpetuated. |
Last edited at 13:57, 17 February 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 10:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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Wiki states that BRIX is a measure of the sucrose density of produce and beverages (an old paradigm). There are 2 counterarguments to this: 1. Modern science indicates that BRIX is measure of the density of all nutrients in F&B, not just sucrose - see [1]. I am sire there are a number of other scientific bodies who can confirm this, but I have not searched further as this has always been my understanding of BRIX until people started saying BRIX was a measure of sugar content only. And when I tried to find out why they were saying that, and found the answer in Wiki. 2. If BIIX was a measure of sugar content only, then that implies that the produce or beverage consists only of sucrose, does it not? Yet, we know they consist of up to 50 nutrients, vitamins and minerals, according to Dr Patrick Holford in "The Optimum Nutrition Bible", and 37 according to ANZ Foods Standards and other Government Health Organizations around the world .
Any comments?
Cmacquet ( talk) 18:48, 30 September 2017 (UTC) Chris Macquet MyHealthOptimizer
"Note: all polynomials in this article are in a format that can be pasted directly into a spreadsheet"
Except no, they can't. The formulas are displayed as images which can neither be copied nor pasted. And even if they could be, they're not in spreadsheet-compatible format?
Arguably, the formulas in the page source could be copy-pasted, but I doubt we want to expand the note to include details to that effect. Ojh2 ( talk) 04:39, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
The NBS polynomial is... let's say suspect with regard to its limited domain and eyebrow-raising amount of difference of its coeffecients compared to the ASBC one. Googling "182.4601 775.6821 775.6821 669.5622" seems to indicate that this stuff originated in Wikipedia. I guess that means we can swap it out all we want?
For what a less suspect equation may look like, I took an extremely abbreviated (5 °Bx interval) table from
FisherSci (they also mention a different Brix Emmerich table!) and threw libreoffice calc at it. It vomited out something along the lines of f(x) = 119.1661 x³ − 551.1697 x² + 995.4664 x − 562.5375
, which is... quite a bit less of a difference. (Another benefit is that it works for the entire range from 0 to 85. Still, if I am to write one down, I will fit the whole table just to be sure.)
Artoria
2e5
🌉
13:03, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Brix article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The discussion result was no consensus |
Oppose. Not under Brix. Could see merging all into Wine and brewing hydrometry. No. That doesn't work. How about Wine and beer hydrometry? No. Wine making and brewing hydrometry? No. Oppose awaiting better title. -- Saintrain 11:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose, also. Although they're all technically measuring the same thing, they have different histories and and are slightly different in their connotations. I can see merging the three in to a single article, just Brix isn't the right choice of title for it. Although, I'm kind of at a loss as to what would be the right name. --- The Bethling (Talk) 06:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Strongly oppose. The Baume measures of density are totally unrelated to the Brix measures of sugar concentration. Gene Nygaard 14:57, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
How about Hydrometry? Agne Cheese/ Wine 06:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
There's an existing article called must weight - my preference would be to expand that with a series of sections on the systems for measuring must weight in Germany, Austria etc, redirect Oeschle scale etc into must weight, and then if need be have a {{main|Brix}} etc heading for the more general measurement systems. FlagSteward 00:14, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
A quick google around seems to indicate that "Antoine Brix" actually was Adolph Brix; Antoine Baumé was the developer of the Baumé scale. However, there is now a growing perception that Brix was called Antoine (partially due to this page perpetuating this version of events). Could someone establish the correct version? -- Ott2 14:55, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
but brix in food is usually the pulp in the can and the number would man concentration.
The scientific usage section is very poor and just wrong. °Brix, measured by refractometer or by specific gravity (density) only ever gives the correct percentage by weight of sucrose for aqueous solutions of sucrose. For any other solution, the value may or may not bear a relation to sucrose content, depending obviously on whether the solution contains any sucrose and if so how much in relation to other soluble components. In addition, the refractive indices of the other components will also be important (if measuring with a refractometer). Measurements by refractive index and by specific gravity will only ever coincide (other than by luck) for pure sucrose solutions. It is not correct to say therefore that a solution (of any kind, e.g. fruit juice) of 20 °Brix contains 20% by weight of soluble solids. This is such a basic mistake and one that is made over and over (even by researchers who should know better) and thus perpetuated. I would therefore ask the author(s) to revise this section. In addition what is meant by an infrared brix meter is unclear. Are you talking about a digital refractometer?
Guy Self ( talk) 14:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC)Guy Self
The discussion result was no consensus |
I'd like to rename this Brix scale to match Baumé scale and Plato scale. Are there any objections? Biscuittin ( talk) 20:42, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
This formula appears to have a mistake, as it doesn't generate the correct answer
I would have thought a lot of people would come here trying to figure out what the brix value on a bottle of wine meant. It strikes me that it might be useful to report a table showing typical brix, both at harvest and in the bottle, for classical styles of wines. Anyone think this is a good or bad idea (or do you think it is more common to report residual sugar when it comes to the wine in the glass?) Bilz0r ( talk) 00:43, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brix#Brix_and_Actual_Dissolved_Solids_Content "...using a hand held instrument similar to the one in the photograph" - There's no photograph anywhere in this article. Was there one and it was removed? Was one intended to be added later? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.183.189.148 ( talk) 06:16, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Brix/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The scientific usage section is very poor and erroneous. °Brix, measured by refractometer or by specific gravity (density) only ever gives the correct percentage by weight of sucrose for aqueous solutions of sucrose. For any other solution, the value may or may not bear a relation to sucrose content, depending obviously on whether the solution contains any sucrose and if so how much in relation to other soluble components. In addition, the refractive indices of the other components will also be important (if measuring with a refractometer). Measurements by refractive index and by specific gravity will only ever coincide (other than by luck) for pure sucrose solutions. It is not correct to say therefore that a solution (of any kind, e.g. fruit juice) of 20 °Brix contains 20% by weight of soluble solids. This is such a basic mistake and one that is made over and over (even by researchers who should know better) and thus perpetuated. |
Last edited at 13:57, 17 February 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 10:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Brix. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Wiki states that BRIX is a measure of the sucrose density of produce and beverages (an old paradigm). There are 2 counterarguments to this: 1. Modern science indicates that BRIX is measure of the density of all nutrients in F&B, not just sucrose - see [1]. I am sire there are a number of other scientific bodies who can confirm this, but I have not searched further as this has always been my understanding of BRIX until people started saying BRIX was a measure of sugar content only. And when I tried to find out why they were saying that, and found the answer in Wiki. 2. If BIIX was a measure of sugar content only, then that implies that the produce or beverage consists only of sucrose, does it not? Yet, we know they consist of up to 50 nutrients, vitamins and minerals, according to Dr Patrick Holford in "The Optimum Nutrition Bible", and 37 according to ANZ Foods Standards and other Government Health Organizations around the world .
Any comments?
Cmacquet ( talk) 18:48, 30 September 2017 (UTC) Chris Macquet MyHealthOptimizer
"Note: all polynomials in this article are in a format that can be pasted directly into a spreadsheet"
Except no, they can't. The formulas are displayed as images which can neither be copied nor pasted. And even if they could be, they're not in spreadsheet-compatible format?
Arguably, the formulas in the page source could be copy-pasted, but I doubt we want to expand the note to include details to that effect. Ojh2 ( talk) 04:39, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
The NBS polynomial is... let's say suspect with regard to its limited domain and eyebrow-raising amount of difference of its coeffecients compared to the ASBC one. Googling "182.4601 775.6821 775.6821 669.5622" seems to indicate that this stuff originated in Wikipedia. I guess that means we can swap it out all we want?
For what a less suspect equation may look like, I took an extremely abbreviated (5 °Bx interval) table from
FisherSci (they also mention a different Brix Emmerich table!) and threw libreoffice calc at it. It vomited out something along the lines of f(x) = 119.1661 x³ − 551.1697 x² + 995.4664 x − 562.5375
, which is... quite a bit less of a difference. (Another benefit is that it works for the entire range from 0 to 85. Still, if I am to write one down, I will fit the whole table just to be sure.)
Artoria
2e5
🌉
13:03, 26 September 2021 (UTC)