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It seems excessive to have half the definition about the modern adoption of the term in San Francisco. I agree it is worth a mention somewhere in the article, but as this is primarily and originally a NY term, I think we should reduce and/or move this portion of the definition. - Lciaccio ( talk) 17:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
My personal experience clashes with the inclusion of some other New York City boroughs (particularly Brooklyn) being included as B&T. Although it certainly is true that one must use a bridge or tunnel to enter Manhattan from Brooklyn or Queens, I've found that the term was more often used to describe people coming from New Jersey, Connecticut and (often especially) Long Island. I know, of course that Brooklyn and Queens are geographically located on Long Island, but they are also contained within the city limits and connected via the subway system. That said, I don't have any evidence to back up any of this, just thought I'd weigh in. Cuffeparade 14:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Vancouver Canada's west end also uses the term Bridge and Tunneler. However, In Toronto, Canada, we use the term "905 crowd" which is the Toronto equivalent of Bridge and tunnel crowd. The term originated for the fact that downtown Toronto uses the 416 area code while the suburbs use 905. Also I am sure this phenomenon exists in major cities around the world. If anyone in other cities knows of similar sociological phenomena please add it here
Here are some quotes I have gathered on the web associated with Bridge and Tunnel:
"Bridge and tunnelers dressed in their flannel Friday best bobbed their heads; their girlfriends swayed to bassist Geoff Stansfield's throbbing groove. " http://www.blacklabworld.com/blw/pages/08_history.html
"Hipsters and fashionista's versus the masses of over scrubbed bridge and tunnelers who have made the meat packing district a hell away from home."
http://abstractdynamics.org/2004/09/index.html
"“Among Manhattan's tastemakers, there is no greater insult than saying a place is "bridge and tunnel" - invaded by the stereotypically big-haired, short-skirted, wifebeater-wearing crowd from points Jersey and Long Island. " http://www.clubplanet.com/news/archive/belittled_bt_loved_by_nightlife.asp -- Heckubiss 16:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed a parenthetical statement from Connecticut in the list of surrounding areas that qualify as B&T. It said that the connotation of B&T could not refer to the affluent residents of Connecticut. I'm not sure what was meant by this, and there might as well be similar lines for the affluent residents of New Jersey and Long Island. The point of B&T is that they are people from outside of the city who travel into the city, regardless of their socioeconomic status. Cuffeparade 06:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I've just done a minor clean-up that I hope pleases most. I did it in pieces, so if anyone has reversion-fever they can hopefully just work on the part they don't like and revert the whole thing. I've tried to get rid of POV-pushing language on both sides and just state the facts. Alas, "outer borough" is a real term and "other burrough" is not, as far as I can tell. So that's the term to use. But in several places I edited the sentence to avoid that all together and just say people from outside Manhattan, etc.
The term "guido" has always bothered me here because it sounds racist against Italians. For the article to say that the term B&T is sometimes applied to guidos is to ratify the legitimacy of guido as a term, and I don't think we should. So I spelled it out, that b&t is used to apply to ethnic whites perceived as uncultured, macho, etc. That's probably more like it because B&T is also applied to greeks, persians, etc., anyone perceived by the people using the word as being less cultured because of their ethnic background. Wikidemo 20:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The article does a good job of explaining that B&T people are literally people who live in the Outer Boroughs and drive into Manhattan. But none of the disparaging references I find on the internet seem to reference the commuting habits of B&T people. I think you're entirely missing out on the most important part of the definition.
What does it mean to be a B&T person? Does it mean you are socioeconomically lower-class? A suburbanite? That you prefer 1980's era fashion trends? That you have an overinflated sense of self-importance? That you are loud, boorish, and obnoxious? What? Bjartmarr ( talk) 20:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
i trimmed out nonnotable trivia, and some "see also" links. as something like this was done 2 years ago, seems this article attracts nonnotable material. Before adding to article, try to ask: is this information that has a referenced, established source, or is it just something you heard? as a phrase in common use in some areas, it will have lots of appearances, with lots of subtle variants in meaning, which simply cannot all be documented. if we referenced every use of a phrase in movies, tv, books, think of the number of trivia entries for "flash in the pan", "old fogey", or "drunk(ard)". all we need is 2 or 3 examples to show notability in culture, like the oxford english dictionary provides. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 16:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm removing the completely untrue bit about the term not being applied if you live in Jersey. If you can find some reference to back this up, feel free. Jds2001 ( talk) 02:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
I hate to be the one who does this, but I'd like to request some citation or removal for application of the term to Boston. For no other reason than I've lived in Boston for most of the last six years and have never heard anyone use it. Especially given that unless you live in an incredibly un-hip on campus dorm, you almost certainly don't live in any of the city's "core neighborhoods" described herein if you're under thirty five. 174.62.208.249 ( talk) 04:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
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i don't like that the disambiguation hatnote says This article is about the descriptive geographic term when the article is about people, not geography. However, the people in question are largely defined by their commute and where they live--in other words, geography. Nevertheless, i'm going to be bold and change the hatnote. (This seemed a bit wordy to put in an edit summary.)
-- 71.121.143.224 ( talk) 10:31, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
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It seems excessive to have half the definition about the modern adoption of the term in San Francisco. I agree it is worth a mention somewhere in the article, but as this is primarily and originally a NY term, I think we should reduce and/or move this portion of the definition. - Lciaccio ( talk) 17:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
My personal experience clashes with the inclusion of some other New York City boroughs (particularly Brooklyn) being included as B&T. Although it certainly is true that one must use a bridge or tunnel to enter Manhattan from Brooklyn or Queens, I've found that the term was more often used to describe people coming from New Jersey, Connecticut and (often especially) Long Island. I know, of course that Brooklyn and Queens are geographically located on Long Island, but they are also contained within the city limits and connected via the subway system. That said, I don't have any evidence to back up any of this, just thought I'd weigh in. Cuffeparade 14:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Vancouver Canada's west end also uses the term Bridge and Tunneler. However, In Toronto, Canada, we use the term "905 crowd" which is the Toronto equivalent of Bridge and tunnel crowd. The term originated for the fact that downtown Toronto uses the 416 area code while the suburbs use 905. Also I am sure this phenomenon exists in major cities around the world. If anyone in other cities knows of similar sociological phenomena please add it here
Here are some quotes I have gathered on the web associated with Bridge and Tunnel:
"Bridge and tunnelers dressed in their flannel Friday best bobbed their heads; their girlfriends swayed to bassist Geoff Stansfield's throbbing groove. " http://www.blacklabworld.com/blw/pages/08_history.html
"Hipsters and fashionista's versus the masses of over scrubbed bridge and tunnelers who have made the meat packing district a hell away from home."
http://abstractdynamics.org/2004/09/index.html
"“Among Manhattan's tastemakers, there is no greater insult than saying a place is "bridge and tunnel" - invaded by the stereotypically big-haired, short-skirted, wifebeater-wearing crowd from points Jersey and Long Island. " http://www.clubplanet.com/news/archive/belittled_bt_loved_by_nightlife.asp -- Heckubiss 16:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed a parenthetical statement from Connecticut in the list of surrounding areas that qualify as B&T. It said that the connotation of B&T could not refer to the affluent residents of Connecticut. I'm not sure what was meant by this, and there might as well be similar lines for the affluent residents of New Jersey and Long Island. The point of B&T is that they are people from outside of the city who travel into the city, regardless of their socioeconomic status. Cuffeparade 06:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I've just done a minor clean-up that I hope pleases most. I did it in pieces, so if anyone has reversion-fever they can hopefully just work on the part they don't like and revert the whole thing. I've tried to get rid of POV-pushing language on both sides and just state the facts. Alas, "outer borough" is a real term and "other burrough" is not, as far as I can tell. So that's the term to use. But in several places I edited the sentence to avoid that all together and just say people from outside Manhattan, etc.
The term "guido" has always bothered me here because it sounds racist against Italians. For the article to say that the term B&T is sometimes applied to guidos is to ratify the legitimacy of guido as a term, and I don't think we should. So I spelled it out, that b&t is used to apply to ethnic whites perceived as uncultured, macho, etc. That's probably more like it because B&T is also applied to greeks, persians, etc., anyone perceived by the people using the word as being less cultured because of their ethnic background. Wikidemo 20:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
The article does a good job of explaining that B&T people are literally people who live in the Outer Boroughs and drive into Manhattan. But none of the disparaging references I find on the internet seem to reference the commuting habits of B&T people. I think you're entirely missing out on the most important part of the definition.
What does it mean to be a B&T person? Does it mean you are socioeconomically lower-class? A suburbanite? That you prefer 1980's era fashion trends? That you have an overinflated sense of self-importance? That you are loud, boorish, and obnoxious? What? Bjartmarr ( talk) 20:54, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
i trimmed out nonnotable trivia, and some "see also" links. as something like this was done 2 years ago, seems this article attracts nonnotable material. Before adding to article, try to ask: is this information that has a referenced, established source, or is it just something you heard? as a phrase in common use in some areas, it will have lots of appearances, with lots of subtle variants in meaning, which simply cannot all be documented. if we referenced every use of a phrase in movies, tv, books, think of the number of trivia entries for "flash in the pan", "old fogey", or "drunk(ard)". all we need is 2 or 3 examples to show notability in culture, like the oxford english dictionary provides. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 16:16, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm removing the completely untrue bit about the term not being applied if you live in Jersey. If you can find some reference to back this up, feel free. Jds2001 ( talk) 02:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
I hate to be the one who does this, but I'd like to request some citation or removal for application of the term to Boston. For no other reason than I've lived in Boston for most of the last six years and have never heard anyone use it. Especially given that unless you live in an incredibly un-hip on campus dorm, you almost certainly don't live in any of the city's "core neighborhoods" described herein if you're under thirty five. 174.62.208.249 ( talk) 04:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Bridge and tunnel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:11, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
i don't like that the disambiguation hatnote says This article is about the descriptive geographic term when the article is about people, not geography. However, the people in question are largely defined by their commute and where they live--in other words, geography. Nevertheless, i'm going to be bold and change the hatnote. (This seemed a bit wordy to put in an edit summary.)
-- 71.121.143.224 ( talk) 10:31, 14 July 2018 (UTC)