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The problem with "arrogant and pompous" is that firstly, while probably true, IMO it's not a widely and generally-held view on Nelson (thus requiring it to be attributed), and secondly, the article implies that this perception is what is or what would be preventing him acceding to the Liberal leadership, and I don't think there's any evidence of that. There's any number of reasons why Nelson is not leader.
I don't see why we need to attribute his failure to attain the leadership position to anything in particular. Perhaps the criticism could be placed somewhere else in the article, or in reference to some specific event.
In any case, I didn't appreciate the no-summary revert. Surely, the text isn't inviolable? Lacrimosus 04:28, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I removed "arrogant and pompous" because the statement had no source. If someone can find a political observer saying on the record, "Nelson is too arrogant and pompous to become the Prime Minister", then by all means, add it to the article. Otherwise, it's just weasel words.
Also, being pompous and arrogant has never stopped anyone from becoming an Australian Prime Minister. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 09:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
What a slur on poor Joe Lyons, the least arrogant and least pompous man ever to hold public office in Australia. Adam 02:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
This sentence is unsourced and absurd, and should be deleted:
He is a licensed medical practitioner and perfectly entitled to be styled "Dr," regardless of whether he is currently practising. The analogy with PhDs is false (and in any case in Australia PhDs are always styled "Dr"). I have never seen this criticism made by anyone. Adam 02:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
1. Sorry, but this is incorrect. Where is the evidence that GPs keep the title "Dr"? I understand that they would if they had a doctorate, such as an MD, but Nelson does not. 2. Where is the evidence that he is a currently licensed medical practitioner? My understanding is that doctors have to be maintaining a certain number of hours per year which Nelson is not. 3. If the above two don't float your boat, then consider this. Exactly how many of the following profiles refer to their subject as "Mister" or "Mr"? John Howard, Kevin Rudd, Alexander Downer, Malcolm Turnbull, Wayne Swan, Peter Costello. What does Wikipedia say about consistency? My suggestion, given that the first two points are contentious and that the third is a lay down misere is to remove all reference to "Dr" unless and until it becomes de rigeur to refer to Howard, Turnbull, Rudd et al as "mr". 203.217.82.96 ( talk) 07:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Would the article benefit from a sentence about his support for Intelligent Design? PiCo 02:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
After Nelson was elected leader of the Liberal Party, a "Current Event" tag was placed at the top of the page. Is this really necessary? It's sort of a one-fact event, that he was elected leader. I don't think there will be more detail to emerge that's notable for the article. A tag that indicates that things may change rapidly is a bit unnecessary, unless someone thinks the Liberal party will rapidly change its leader again very soon :) -- Lester 02:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
The SMH article says Philip Nelson died in 1995, but this news.com article says 1990. Anybody have a more-reliable source to confirm which one is correct? -- 210.10.130.117 09:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there any reason why people are against its inclusion? -- 58.172.249.40 14:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
He once said that he had "never voted liberal in (his) life" when he was clearly no spring chicken [1].
There is an article about the incident here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22890189-2,00.html
I think that is an adequate reference.
Sonnybillyboys ( talk) 13:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I think a little more could be made of Nelson's political opportunism p- the switch from Labor to Liberal motivated by nothing b=deeper than the desire to further his political career, the support of Intelligent design reversed when it became clear that it was a vote-loser... I wonder if the man has ever had a motive in his life other than the promotion of his personal ambitions? 203.189.134.3 ( talk) 17:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Is is worthwhile adding a sentence or two based on this report of the doubbts surrounding Nelson's election as Lib leader? PiCo ( talk) 17:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I think there needs to be more information added to his personal life. One particular area of interest may be his religion, I'm guessing he is a Christian but I dont have detailed knowledge. Kevin Rudd, his opponent, has an entire section titled "Religious Views" in his article- surely this deserves inclusion. Niveam ( talk) 11:43, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to news.google search the article I was reading but can't find it, does anyone have the article(s) indicating Nelson is more anti-apology than he previously was due to pressure from the conservatives in the party room who backed him for the leadership over Turnbull? Timeshift ( talk) 00:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I see the following elements regarding Nelson and "Sorry":
So, the "sorry" issue has been the biggest issue of Nelson's leadership so far. Lester 04:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Reverted positions to best placement, there is nothing at WP:MOS indicating the other layout is better. It looks worse. Also 'controversial' is not commentary. Timeshift ( talk) 01:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
There is no difference between these pics and any other pic at Wikipedia. I'm not sure why these need to be the sole exception to the rule. See John McCain for example. -- Merbabu ( talk) 21:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Moved to gallery format. Timeshift ( talk) 12:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone name the woman on the right here? Timeshift ( talk) 14:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
The new wording is still somewhat odd. It states he is attempting to distance himself from the previous Howard govt policies, and says he doesn't support gay marriage, adoption or IVF, but "believes in addressing the social and economic injustices affecting homosexuals". Didn't John Howard take more or less the same stance, ie: superannuation? Timeshift ( talk) 06:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I would personally question the legitimacy of Dave Tollner's vote not because he had lost his seat but because he is from the CLP, the NT non-Labor Party. The CLP is technically a different party from the Liberals and the arrangement of the CLP sitting with the Liberals in the House of Representatives and the Nationals in the Senate is just plain ridiculous. -- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 03:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
The point I was making is not that on who Tollner had voted for but that he shouldn't not have been allowed to vote in the first place because technically he is not a member of the Liberal Party. -- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 04:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Added reference. It is significant for the leader of the party, on the lowest polling in polling history, to assure us that he is "going nowhere". Not a good choice of words. Timeshift ( talk) 15:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I find the article has been sterilized to remove any conflicting views from the official party line. Removed was:
It seems many have made fun of those ill-chosen words, "i'm going nowhere". Not to mention the removal of his flawed budget. Why remove the damaging economic credentials line? Here's another quote:
So why remove cited contents to sterilise the article? Timeshift ( talk) 12:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
References
"Nelson's leadership came under increased pressure in January 2008, after an MP shifted loyalties to Turnbull, and taking into consideration that former MP Dave Tollner was still allowed to vote, the leadership vote would now be deadlocked at 43-43." This part of the article would need to be modified given Alexander Downer's retirement. Downer had voted for Turnbull and there is no way to know at this stage on whom Downer's replacement would vote for in a Nelson-Turnbull rematch.-- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 04:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Should he be listed at List of Stratocaster players? Timeshift ( talk) 03:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Peter's made his decision that he did not seek the leadership of the party. And as I've said before I'd be very happy if he changes his mind - Brendan Nelson, 29/8/2008.
A spokesman later clarified that Dr Nelson meant he would be happy for Mr Costello to change his mind about quitting politics. [3]
Noteworthy? Timeshift ( talk) 09:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Given the number of hits it's likely to attract, I decided to murder my student access to various databases and try and make a decent article of it. Haven't yet got to his ministerial roles (I'm up to 1997) but I think insufficient attention had been given to his AMA career given its prominence at the time (even I remember it and I was a teenager in high school at the time). If anyone has any suggestions for improvement to the sections I've reworked this morning, feel free to suggest them - I had to rely heavily on SMH and The Age and they might have missed some key bits. I'll look into 1997-2001 shortly, but have some errands to run today. Orderinchaos 22:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Was Chris Uhlmann simply wrong when he wrote here today: "And it might surprise some to learn that former Liberal leader Brendan Nelson has yet to resign from Parliament, but he will before it resumes on Monday week."? -- JackofOz ( talk) 07:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
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Although Nelson was never Health Minister, Nelson's medical expertise did come in useful during his time in cabinet when the government was considering whether to approve a drug.
I think this should be included in the article but I don't remember what the drug was about and the details of it but Nelson as a doctor expressed his medical opinion that the drug was not safe to use. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 05:27, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
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The problem with "arrogant and pompous" is that firstly, while probably true, IMO it's not a widely and generally-held view on Nelson (thus requiring it to be attributed), and secondly, the article implies that this perception is what is or what would be preventing him acceding to the Liberal leadership, and I don't think there's any evidence of that. There's any number of reasons why Nelson is not leader.
I don't see why we need to attribute his failure to attain the leadership position to anything in particular. Perhaps the criticism could be placed somewhere else in the article, or in reference to some specific event.
In any case, I didn't appreciate the no-summary revert. Surely, the text isn't inviolable? Lacrimosus 04:28, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I removed "arrogant and pompous" because the statement had no source. If someone can find a political observer saying on the record, "Nelson is too arrogant and pompous to become the Prime Minister", then by all means, add it to the article. Otherwise, it's just weasel words.
Also, being pompous and arrogant has never stopped anyone from becoming an Australian Prime Minister. (talk to) Caroline Sanford 09:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
What a slur on poor Joe Lyons, the least arrogant and least pompous man ever to hold public office in Australia. Adam 02:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
This sentence is unsourced and absurd, and should be deleted:
He is a licensed medical practitioner and perfectly entitled to be styled "Dr," regardless of whether he is currently practising. The analogy with PhDs is false (and in any case in Australia PhDs are always styled "Dr"). I have never seen this criticism made by anyone. Adam 02:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
1. Sorry, but this is incorrect. Where is the evidence that GPs keep the title "Dr"? I understand that they would if they had a doctorate, such as an MD, but Nelson does not. 2. Where is the evidence that he is a currently licensed medical practitioner? My understanding is that doctors have to be maintaining a certain number of hours per year which Nelson is not. 3. If the above two don't float your boat, then consider this. Exactly how many of the following profiles refer to their subject as "Mister" or "Mr"? John Howard, Kevin Rudd, Alexander Downer, Malcolm Turnbull, Wayne Swan, Peter Costello. What does Wikipedia say about consistency? My suggestion, given that the first two points are contentious and that the third is a lay down misere is to remove all reference to "Dr" unless and until it becomes de rigeur to refer to Howard, Turnbull, Rudd et al as "mr". 203.217.82.96 ( talk) 07:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Would the article benefit from a sentence about his support for Intelligent Design? PiCo 02:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
After Nelson was elected leader of the Liberal Party, a "Current Event" tag was placed at the top of the page. Is this really necessary? It's sort of a one-fact event, that he was elected leader. I don't think there will be more detail to emerge that's notable for the article. A tag that indicates that things may change rapidly is a bit unnecessary, unless someone thinks the Liberal party will rapidly change its leader again very soon :) -- Lester 02:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
The SMH article says Philip Nelson died in 1995, but this news.com article says 1990. Anybody have a more-reliable source to confirm which one is correct? -- 210.10.130.117 09:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there any reason why people are against its inclusion? -- 58.172.249.40 14:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
He once said that he had "never voted liberal in (his) life" when he was clearly no spring chicken [1].
There is an article about the incident here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22890189-2,00.html
I think that is an adequate reference.
Sonnybillyboys ( talk) 13:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I think a little more could be made of Nelson's political opportunism p- the switch from Labor to Liberal motivated by nothing b=deeper than the desire to further his political career, the support of Intelligent design reversed when it became clear that it was a vote-loser... I wonder if the man has ever had a motive in his life other than the promotion of his personal ambitions? 203.189.134.3 ( talk) 17:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Is is worthwhile adding a sentence or two based on this report of the doubbts surrounding Nelson's election as Lib leader? PiCo ( talk) 17:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I think there needs to be more information added to his personal life. One particular area of interest may be his religion, I'm guessing he is a Christian but I dont have detailed knowledge. Kevin Rudd, his opponent, has an entire section titled "Religious Views" in his article- surely this deserves inclusion. Niveam ( talk) 11:43, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to news.google search the article I was reading but can't find it, does anyone have the article(s) indicating Nelson is more anti-apology than he previously was due to pressure from the conservatives in the party room who backed him for the leadership over Turnbull? Timeshift ( talk) 00:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I see the following elements regarding Nelson and "Sorry":
So, the "sorry" issue has been the biggest issue of Nelson's leadership so far. Lester 04:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Reverted positions to best placement, there is nothing at WP:MOS indicating the other layout is better. It looks worse. Also 'controversial' is not commentary. Timeshift ( talk) 01:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
There is no difference between these pics and any other pic at Wikipedia. I'm not sure why these need to be the sole exception to the rule. See John McCain for example. -- Merbabu ( talk) 21:33, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Moved to gallery format. Timeshift ( talk) 12:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone name the woman on the right here? Timeshift ( talk) 14:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
The new wording is still somewhat odd. It states he is attempting to distance himself from the previous Howard govt policies, and says he doesn't support gay marriage, adoption or IVF, but "believes in addressing the social and economic injustices affecting homosexuals". Didn't John Howard take more or less the same stance, ie: superannuation? Timeshift ( talk) 06:07, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I would personally question the legitimacy of Dave Tollner's vote not because he had lost his seat but because he is from the CLP, the NT non-Labor Party. The CLP is technically a different party from the Liberals and the arrangement of the CLP sitting with the Liberals in the House of Representatives and the Nationals in the Senate is just plain ridiculous. -- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 03:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
The point I was making is not that on who Tollner had voted for but that he shouldn't not have been allowed to vote in the first place because technically he is not a member of the Liberal Party. -- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 04:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Added reference. It is significant for the leader of the party, on the lowest polling in polling history, to assure us that he is "going nowhere". Not a good choice of words. Timeshift ( talk) 15:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I find the article has been sterilized to remove any conflicting views from the official party line. Removed was:
It seems many have made fun of those ill-chosen words, "i'm going nowhere". Not to mention the removal of his flawed budget. Why remove the damaging economic credentials line? Here's another quote:
So why remove cited contents to sterilise the article? Timeshift ( talk) 12:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
References
"Nelson's leadership came under increased pressure in January 2008, after an MP shifted loyalties to Turnbull, and taking into consideration that former MP Dave Tollner was still allowed to vote, the leadership vote would now be deadlocked at 43-43." This part of the article would need to be modified given Alexander Downer's retirement. Downer had voted for Turnbull and there is no way to know at this stage on whom Downer's replacement would vote for in a Nelson-Turnbull rematch.-- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 04:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Should he be listed at List of Stratocaster players? Timeshift ( talk) 03:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Peter's made his decision that he did not seek the leadership of the party. And as I've said before I'd be very happy if he changes his mind - Brendan Nelson, 29/8/2008.
A spokesman later clarified that Dr Nelson meant he would be happy for Mr Costello to change his mind about quitting politics. [3]
Noteworthy? Timeshift ( talk) 09:46, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Given the number of hits it's likely to attract, I decided to murder my student access to various databases and try and make a decent article of it. Haven't yet got to his ministerial roles (I'm up to 1997) but I think insufficient attention had been given to his AMA career given its prominence at the time (even I remember it and I was a teenager in high school at the time). If anyone has any suggestions for improvement to the sections I've reworked this morning, feel free to suggest them - I had to rely heavily on SMH and The Age and they might have missed some key bits. I'll look into 1997-2001 shortly, but have some errands to run today. Orderinchaos 22:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Was Chris Uhlmann simply wrong when he wrote here today: "And it might surprise some to learn that former Liberal leader Brendan Nelson has yet to resign from Parliament, but he will before it resumes on Monday week."? -- JackofOz ( talk) 07:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
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Although Nelson was never Health Minister, Nelson's medical expertise did come in useful during his time in cabinet when the government was considering whether to approve a drug.
I think this should be included in the article but I don't remember what the drug was about and the details of it but Nelson as a doctor expressed his medical opinion that the drug was not safe to use. 49.3.72.79 ( talk) 05:27, 16 December 2023 (UTC)