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This person is NOT notable and this is just an advertisement for his aggrandisement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.170.255.152 ( talk) 11:27, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Nowhere in this article does it even state what this person received a PHD from. Or when specifically they received it. There is no information at all on this person's education, not even on their on linkedin profile beyond saying they attended the University of Kentucky (no specific degree even mentioned). In this wiki page it says that he went to India, Rochester, then Ohio State to finish a PHD. That isn't how PHD programs work - you don't bounce around schools finishing it. I call absolute and complete bull$hit on this guy. And the WSJ article where he received the "Outstanding Finance Graduate Award" isn't even a fuking award. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.164.3 ( talk) 00:35, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
This article states, "He was the only African American in the world earn a PHD in Finance during the year 2002." This is highly misleading because African Americans are mostly only found in America. The vast majority of the world's black people are not American, and thus not African American. Saying that he was the only African American in "the world" to earn a PhD in Finance exaggerates the (unverified) accomplishment. The wording is also demeaning toward blacks who are not American. The wording should be changed to either "he was the only African American in the United States..." or "he was the only black person in the world...". -- JHP ( talk) 01:29, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
I completely agree, this is poor choice of wording. In regards to verification, the National Science Foundation releases an annual report on the results of a survey of earned doctorate degrees. They have the report posted from the 2002 survey (the year Watkins earned his PhD), including demographic breakdowns by subfield (
[1]), and it does say that only one PhD was awarded in "Business Management: Banking/Financial Support Services" (p. 87 of the report), however I still have several issues:
Even with the SED report providing some confirmation, I believe the wording of the statement still puts it at odds with both the verifiability and conflict of interest policies. Any discussion of the significance of Dr. Watkins' PhD should be brought up later in the article and include supporting information, along with a more neutral tone. Acedork87 ( talk) 03:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the prolific use of 'citation needed' tags on the article.
I've removed the (very) numerous 'citation needed' tags, since this type of tagging, after every sentence, is not encouraged in the manual of style. A better use of time would be to actually look for more sources. The tag at the top of the article remains and should be suitable in informing the reader than anything not referenced does not (yet) have a source. Numerous tagging looks very aggresive and is distracting. Nihola ( talk) 18:35, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
This article http://thyblackman.com/2011/05/06/dr-boyce-watkins-south-park-goes-after-tyler-perry/ sheds some light on what's the difference between a booger and original research by Dr. Watkins (hint: none). 213.39.136.33 ( talk) 03:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
In the Lil Wayne, Boyce Watkins controversy, Dr. Watkins accused Lil' Wayne of glorifying violence in return for payment from a "White and Jewish overseer". This edit has been placed multiple times, but the editor /info/en/?search=User:Stevietheman has removed it several times first claiming that it was not noteworthy and then that it violated /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons. All attempts have been made to resolve this dispute. Stevietheman has stated that primary quotes need to be noteworthy and that they require secondary sources. These are rules invented by Stevietheman. The direct quote by Dr. Watkins helps provide context as to the nature of the Wayne/Watkins controversy. Please suggest how to incorporate the quotation. Teh link to the video is White and Jewish overseerquotation comes from minute 8:50 - 9:30 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.226.181.194 ( talk) 18:26, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
It is not a pov that he spoke that statement. That is a citeable quote directly related to the theme of this section. Secondary sources are not needed for citing primary sources. The edits make no claims about the nature of that quotation. If quoting people is a violation of biographies of living people then all quotes should be removed. It appears that your personal bias is influencing what quotations should be allowed and that is unacceptable.
Therein lies the problem. You seem believe primary citations of living people require secondary source coverage to make them reliable. This is a rule of your own invention. I would suggest you brush up on the rules. This has been posted for dispute resolution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C753:B0D2:7156:7A8:3C0E:4A5F ( talk) 13:52, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
The context of the quotation is Dr Boyce Watkins addressing Lil Wayne. This is not a POV. Furhthermore no picture is being created and asserting that is merely asserting your POV. The context of the quote is self evident as Dr Boyce watkins can be seen speaking as he addresses Lil Wayne. Furthermore there is plenty of secondary coverage on the LiL Wayne Watkins controversy. That is precisely why the section exists. Other quotes appear in the section without citations and you have merely atempted to whitewash a documented observable fact because you feel that fact paints a picture. Furthermore you have invented rules to exert a form of dominance. Please cite the page and line where it says that primary quotations require secondary sources? Also no rule states that secondary sources are required for establishing context.if this is the case cite it. Furthermore asserting that any secondary source addresses a given context merely breaks your own rule as that itself would require tertiary sources to establish that context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C753:B0D2:7156:7A8:3C0E:4A5F ( talk) 17:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
I would hope you sense moving goal posts as you have been doing some heavy lifting. I have stood consistent in stating that primary sources do not require secondary source verification or notability. Notability is required for entire articles and sections of articles, not primary source quotations. You have stood by your statements but have yet to cite the source of those rules and only directed me to pages that confirm my claims. Additionally you have accused me of expressing my POV by directly citing Mr Watkins. But that said I am happy to move forward with an RFC. If indeed it is true that primary quotations require secondary sources for notability, we'll have a lot of editing to do not only on this page but on Wikipedia in general. We might as well move forward as quickly as possible.
For the time being, since you'd rather waste our time and a that of a third party, I'll provide some basic instruction.
1) Notability is a requirement of articles, not the content within articles. 2) Content within an article must be verifiable. "Information on Wikipedia must be verifiable; if no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, then it should not have a separate article." [3] Note that articles must be notable and content must be verifiable. 3) "The criteria applied to article creation/retention are not the same as those applied to article content. The notability guidelines do not apply to article or list content (with the exception that some lists restrict inclusion to notable items or people). Content coverage within a given article or list (i.e. whether something is noteworthy enough to be mentioned in the article or list) is governed by the principle of due weight and other content policies. For additional information about list articles, see Notability and lists and Lead and selection criteria." [4] 4) Article content must be verifiable. Meaning "that anyone using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source". [5] 5) Article content must also provide a neutral POV and show no Original research. Direct quotes fulfill those requirements.
I hope in the future that you can take the time to read the above "stuff" rather than waste other people's time.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.221.177 ( talk) 19:40, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Reflecting on our discussion and in all seriousness, I would like to extend my apologies. I am guilty of having a negative attitude when approaching this discussion. I do disagree with your editorial correction, but cannot honestly say that I have handled this in a respectful and appropriate manner. I believe that the quote should remain as a primary source but want to change the tone of this discussion and I believe I can spend my time more productively.
There are more important battles in life. Thanks and good luck
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Boyce Watkins. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
This person is NOT notable and this is just an advertisement for his aggrandisement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.170.255.152 ( talk) 11:27, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Nowhere in this article does it even state what this person received a PHD from. Or when specifically they received it. There is no information at all on this person's education, not even on their on linkedin profile beyond saying they attended the University of Kentucky (no specific degree even mentioned). In this wiki page it says that he went to India, Rochester, then Ohio State to finish a PHD. That isn't how PHD programs work - you don't bounce around schools finishing it. I call absolute and complete bull$hit on this guy. And the WSJ article where he received the "Outstanding Finance Graduate Award" isn't even a fuking award. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.164.3 ( talk) 00:35, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
This article states, "He was the only African American in the world earn a PHD in Finance during the year 2002." This is highly misleading because African Americans are mostly only found in America. The vast majority of the world's black people are not American, and thus not African American. Saying that he was the only African American in "the world" to earn a PhD in Finance exaggerates the (unverified) accomplishment. The wording is also demeaning toward blacks who are not American. The wording should be changed to either "he was the only African American in the United States..." or "he was the only black person in the world...". -- JHP ( talk) 01:29, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
I completely agree, this is poor choice of wording. In regards to verification, the National Science Foundation releases an annual report on the results of a survey of earned doctorate degrees. They have the report posted from the 2002 survey (the year Watkins earned his PhD), including demographic breakdowns by subfield (
[1]), and it does say that only one PhD was awarded in "Business Management: Banking/Financial Support Services" (p. 87 of the report), however I still have several issues:
Even with the SED report providing some confirmation, I believe the wording of the statement still puts it at odds with both the verifiability and conflict of interest policies. Any discussion of the significance of Dr. Watkins' PhD should be brought up later in the article and include supporting information, along with a more neutral tone. Acedork87 ( talk) 03:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the prolific use of 'citation needed' tags on the article.
I've removed the (very) numerous 'citation needed' tags, since this type of tagging, after every sentence, is not encouraged in the manual of style. A better use of time would be to actually look for more sources. The tag at the top of the article remains and should be suitable in informing the reader than anything not referenced does not (yet) have a source. Numerous tagging looks very aggresive and is distracting. Nihola ( talk) 18:35, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
This article http://thyblackman.com/2011/05/06/dr-boyce-watkins-south-park-goes-after-tyler-perry/ sheds some light on what's the difference between a booger and original research by Dr. Watkins (hint: none). 213.39.136.33 ( talk) 03:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Boyce Watkins. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
In the Lil Wayne, Boyce Watkins controversy, Dr. Watkins accused Lil' Wayne of glorifying violence in return for payment from a "White and Jewish overseer". This edit has been placed multiple times, but the editor /info/en/?search=User:Stevietheman has removed it several times first claiming that it was not noteworthy and then that it violated /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons. All attempts have been made to resolve this dispute. Stevietheman has stated that primary quotes need to be noteworthy and that they require secondary sources. These are rules invented by Stevietheman. The direct quote by Dr. Watkins helps provide context as to the nature of the Wayne/Watkins controversy. Please suggest how to incorporate the quotation. Teh link to the video is White and Jewish overseerquotation comes from minute 8:50 - 9:30 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.226.181.194 ( talk) 18:26, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
It is not a pov that he spoke that statement. That is a citeable quote directly related to the theme of this section. Secondary sources are not needed for citing primary sources. The edits make no claims about the nature of that quotation. If quoting people is a violation of biographies of living people then all quotes should be removed. It appears that your personal bias is influencing what quotations should be allowed and that is unacceptable.
Therein lies the problem. You seem believe primary citations of living people require secondary source coverage to make them reliable. This is a rule of your own invention. I would suggest you brush up on the rules. This has been posted for dispute resolution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C753:B0D2:7156:7A8:3C0E:4A5F ( talk) 13:52, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
The context of the quotation is Dr Boyce Watkins addressing Lil Wayne. This is not a POV. Furhthermore no picture is being created and asserting that is merely asserting your POV. The context of the quote is self evident as Dr Boyce watkins can be seen speaking as he addresses Lil Wayne. Furthermore there is plenty of secondary coverage on the LiL Wayne Watkins controversy. That is precisely why the section exists. Other quotes appear in the section without citations and you have merely atempted to whitewash a documented observable fact because you feel that fact paints a picture. Furthermore you have invented rules to exert a form of dominance. Please cite the page and line where it says that primary quotations require secondary sources? Also no rule states that secondary sources are required for establishing context.if this is the case cite it. Furthermore asserting that any secondary source addresses a given context merely breaks your own rule as that itself would require tertiary sources to establish that context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1:C753:B0D2:7156:7A8:3C0E:4A5F ( talk) 17:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
I would hope you sense moving goal posts as you have been doing some heavy lifting. I have stood consistent in stating that primary sources do not require secondary source verification or notability. Notability is required for entire articles and sections of articles, not primary source quotations. You have stood by your statements but have yet to cite the source of those rules and only directed me to pages that confirm my claims. Additionally you have accused me of expressing my POV by directly citing Mr Watkins. But that said I am happy to move forward with an RFC. If indeed it is true that primary quotations require secondary sources for notability, we'll have a lot of editing to do not only on this page but on Wikipedia in general. We might as well move forward as quickly as possible.
For the time being, since you'd rather waste our time and a that of a third party, I'll provide some basic instruction.
1) Notability is a requirement of articles, not the content within articles. 2) Content within an article must be verifiable. "Information on Wikipedia must be verifiable; if no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, then it should not have a separate article." [3] Note that articles must be notable and content must be verifiable. 3) "The criteria applied to article creation/retention are not the same as those applied to article content. The notability guidelines do not apply to article or list content (with the exception that some lists restrict inclusion to notable items or people). Content coverage within a given article or list (i.e. whether something is noteworthy enough to be mentioned in the article or list) is governed by the principle of due weight and other content policies. For additional information about list articles, see Notability and lists and Lead and selection criteria." [4] 4) Article content must be verifiable. Meaning "that anyone using the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source". [5] 5) Article content must also provide a neutral POV and show no Original research. Direct quotes fulfill those requirements.
I hope in the future that you can take the time to read the above "stuff" rather than waste other people's time.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.221.177 ( talk) 19:40, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Reflecting on our discussion and in all seriousness, I would like to extend my apologies. I am guilty of having a negative attitude when approaching this discussion. I do disagree with your editorial correction, but cannot honestly say that I have handled this in a respectful and appropriate manner. I believe that the quote should remain as a primary source but want to change the tone of this discussion and I believe I can spend my time more productively.
There are more important battles in life. Thanks and good luck
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Boyce Watkins. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Sourcecheck}}
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:17, 6 November 2016 (UTC)