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Bourne Westfield Primary School was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 6 October 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Bourne, Lincolnshire. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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There is a link from the population reference in the infobox to a pdf file called 'Statistics about Bourne, South Kesteven' . The end of this document contains a blood-curdling copyright notice about 'The Click-Use Licence'. Does that mean it is OK to link to this document or not? (Note: the banner shown is not entirely apprpriate: it talks about there being no source - my query is about a source, but no more appropriate template appears to exist within wikipedia) Brunnian ( talk) 12:02, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
The above contentious nonsense has been inserted into the article.
The absence of any mention of Bourne castle in the Domesday Book is not at all surprising since it was not built until more than fifty years after the book was compiled. If it had been there in 1086, the castle would still not have been mentioned since the book was a database of sources of income so that the king would know where to go for money when he needed it. Castles were sinks of expenditure; the commissioners were not interested in them. The exception to this rule is in towns where there was a discrepancy between the numbers of town properties before and after the Conquest. In places like Lincoln and Stamford, the demolition required to make way for the castles is mentioned simply to explain the discrepancy.
The excavation made in 1860 of which the report was published in 1861 was done in the manner of such things at that time. The report includes what was for its time a good plan of what was found and of the castle site as it was at the time. The gate excavated was not demolished until about 1805 so there were a few people who could describe it. The site was described by Leland in the 1530s and by a man called Peek (Peak) in around 1500. The latter is quoted by Moore and by Marratt in their respective early nineteenth century books. It is all pretty well consistent with what is to be seen by way of earthworks today. The brass band had nothing to do with the excavation or report, merely to do with the visit of the Architectural Society to see the excavation while it was open.
The main archaeological information comes from a pipe trench which was observed by a professional archaeologist who drew a perfectly adequate section along it. That section gives a good deal of information such as the nature, thickness and position of the inner bailey curtain wall, clear indications of at least four phases and the width of the inner bailey moat. One somewhat surprising outcome of the excavation was a nearly complete absence of indication of pre-castle occupation of the site. However, another excavation did suggest some restricted occupation to one side of the central castle site before the time of the castle.
The castle has played a dominant part in determining the layout of the town. There is no room to doubt its presence in one form or another, from about 1140 to the nineteenth century. Even now, anyone who is not determined not to see them can hardly avoid seeing the signs in the form of parch marks, pools of water, ridges, hollows and the layout of open waterways: not least, in the way the town accommodates itself to the former castle.
I propose reversion. ( RJP 21:57, 19 September 2005 (UTC))
There being no response to the above, the offending section has been removed. ( RJP 23:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC))
Why has this section been added? The contributor is anonymous. The material is irrelevant and worthless, as it is no more than gossip, with no names, dates or references. It needs to be removed, and in no sooner than twenty-four hours I will do so. Sweetalkinguy 23:39, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
This section is now removed. Some pupils of Bourne Grammar School are so prolific at interfering with the "Bourne, Lincolnshire" entry that editing rights from the school computers are suspended by the Wikipedia powers that be. Sweetalkinguy 23:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
The notes section duplicated the references made to it. By taking out the reference which was in the info box, I have put it right but why, I don't know. I am storing the offending link here for any one who can, to put it right. [1] ( RJP 11:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)) It now seems to have put itself right. ( RJP 07:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC))
The article is getting much-needed expert input.
I have reverted the headings in the Local Government section, principally because it stands out better in the table of Contents at the top of the article. I have also massaged what I wrote earlier in with the later additions so that there is more explanation there, without the reader having to look up another article. I have put in the bit about Coats of Arms because I have pictures of the current and South Kesteven Arms for inclusion.
I will beef up the section about the railways, as I have some pictures to add. I have other pictures. The Wikipedia format allows for a subsidiary page of illustrations, there is sufficient material to make it worthwhile.
The Wikipedia guidelines are useful in general terms, but should not be seen as a rigid straightjacket. The article will need some re-arranging and editing out of duplicated information. The objective is to apply the guidelines to the article and end up with a top rating. Compared to articles about other local settlements, we are well on the way.
Guy 01:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
The in depth history of the teams and drivers belongs in the relevant articles, as this is about the town. And secondary items should be just covered im summary with a clear link to the main article. see WP:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements.
The section removed is here:
In 1962 Graham Hill won the world championship in a BRM, the first British driver to win in an all-British car. The BRM team won the Constructors' Championship, and also that year's team prize at the BBC Sports Personality of the Year awards. Motor racing fans believed this would be the start of a new era for the sport and by 1965, the company had 100 employees in Bourne. 1965 was another successful year when BRM cars gained either a first or second prize in eight of the ten Grand Prix races that were held. Graham Hill was second in the World Championship for the third successive time (1963/4/5)and Jackie Stewart finished third in his debut season. BRM were also runners-up in the Constructors' Championship for the third time in a row. Meanwhile BRM cars won four successive Monaco Grand Prix from 1963 to 1966 including 1st and 2nd finishes in 1963 and 1964 and 1st and 3rd finishes in 1965 and 1966.
However the change of engine capacity for the 1966 season from 1.5 litre to 3.0 litre spelt the beginning of a long decline. Graham Hill left at the end of the 1966 season to go to BRM's great rivals, Lotus, and Jackie Stewart left at the end of 1967 to go to Matra. After that, the cars had mixed fortunes until the Mexican driver Pedro Rodriguez scored a comeback victory in the 1970 Belgian Grand Prix at Spa. There were further successes in Austria and Italy in 1971 with a final victory at BRM's happy hunting ground of Monaco in 1972 but as the sport became the province of heavy commercial sponsorship, advancement was dogged by mechanical failures and lack of resources. The team ceased to compete after 1977.
In all, BRM won seventeen Grands Prix between 1959 and 1972, the successful drivers apart from Hill (10), Stewart (2) and Rodriguez were Jo Bonnier, the tragic Jo Siffert, Peter Gethin and finally, Jean-Pierre Beltoise.
Soon after Mays died in 1980, Rubery Owen decided to sell the BRM collection of racing cars. The sale created international interest when it took place during the Motor Show at Earl's Court, London, in October, 1981.
The section could do with being split into a brief bit about each team separately then use {{main|Link to team article}} to link clearly indicating an in depth article is available with more details.
This was decided by consensus on 6 October 2010: see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bourne Westfield Primary School. I have edited the article into a tidy package of a few paragraphs and added it under the Education subheading. If you must delete any of it, please aim to preserve the section about the archaeological site if possible, as this information is now mentioned nowhere else on Wikipedia, and is an important part of the local history and geography of the area. Thank you.
I had better add that in my opinion the decision to merge was unwise, as the Bourne Westfield Primary School article is a hefty piece of text with many references, and this Bourne article was already too full and already needed a split. My fear is now that the Bourne Westfield Primary School article content is now at risk of destruction; not because the content is faulty or un-encyclopaedic, but because there is no room for it in the Bourne article. I strongly suggest that the decision to merge be re-considered. -- Storye book ( talk) 08:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Talk page contents of merged page
|
---|
I am puzzled by the proposal for deletion. Why pick on this one and not, for example, Walton Girls High School or Bubwith Community Primary School or Woodside Primary School - or, for that matter, Lincoln Primary School or Fuhua Primary School. No such objection has been raised for the members of Category: Primary schools in London. There is a whole structure of school descriptions, because this is an encyclopaedia, and surely it is meant to be encyclopedic? An incomplete data struture is not as good as a complete one.-- Brunnian ( talk) 13:23, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I have begun to research and edit this article with a view to improvement, indicating notability and possibly saving the article from deletion. Work is currently ongoing to provide a suitable photograph, and to locate appropriate citations for the more recent awards, which are not yet mentioned on the school's website. The school itself approves of this move, and is cooperating as far as possible. Besides this, I am aware that the school is the successor to a previous (and probably historical) institution, that it is probably near or associated with the historical Car Dyke, and that there are other notable matters which - since I only started today - I haven't even begun to research. Therefore I shall try to find the work-in-progress banner template, and ask you to please bear with us and not delete the article while we work on this. Thank you.-- Storye book ( talk) 17:51, 22 September 2010 (UTC) This article was merged with Bourne, Lincolnshire on 7 October 2010To administrator: please check that the merge has not been deleted from the above destination article before you delete this source article. I am particularly concerned that the archaeological site information should be preserved on Wikipedia with full references. This merger was an irresponsible idea in my opinion, as the Bourne, Lincolnshire article is now 55 kilobytes long, and carries a notice in edit mode asking for a split! I think that the merge should be re-considered, otherwise the regular editors of the destination article will in due course be obliged either to delete the merged material, or to split it to create a separate article on Bourne Westfield Primary School - and we'll be back where we started. Thank you for your cooperation.-- Storye book ( talk) 09:04, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
|
I have reduced the gallery and two of the other images to thumbnails, and distributed most of the gallery into the text as per WP, also to reduce the filesize of the page by 2KB. I removed three of the gallery images, but they are still accessible via the media link box at bottom right of the page. I checked every image, including the removed ones, to make sure that they were correctly categorised on Commons - so as to link them with the aforesaid media box. There is one image remaining - File:BourneRedHall.jpg - which needs to be transferred to Commons and properly categorised there. I am hoping that someone else can do this task, as I find the process difficult.-- Storye book ( talk) 17:24, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion the AfD outcome was perfectly well evaluated, an excellent compromise, and there are no reasons to doubt or criticise the closing admin's good faith - that's what we have admins for, though not all of them might share the same thresholds of inclusionism/deletionism. JonRidinger has left almost exactly the same comments as I was about to make about how the the target page can now be improved, and possibly even pushed to GA.-- Kudpung ( talk) 07:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
There never was a GN line from Essendine to Sleaford. The Essendine-Bourne and Bourne-Sleaford routes were built separately, and timetabled separately until the end of passenger services on widely different dates.-- Robert EA Harvey ( talk) 08:42, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I have suggested that Bourne Abbey Church of England Academy be merged to this article as the I don't believe the school meets the notability thresholds for schools. Atlas-maker ( talk) 19:10, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Bourne, Lincolnshire article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Bourne Westfield Primary School was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 6 October 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Bourne, Lincolnshire. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
There is a link from the population reference in the infobox to a pdf file called 'Statistics about Bourne, South Kesteven' . The end of this document contains a blood-curdling copyright notice about 'The Click-Use Licence'. Does that mean it is OK to link to this document or not? (Note: the banner shown is not entirely apprpriate: it talks about there being no source - my query is about a source, but no more appropriate template appears to exist within wikipedia) Brunnian ( talk) 12:02, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
The above contentious nonsense has been inserted into the article.
The absence of any mention of Bourne castle in the Domesday Book is not at all surprising since it was not built until more than fifty years after the book was compiled. If it had been there in 1086, the castle would still not have been mentioned since the book was a database of sources of income so that the king would know where to go for money when he needed it. Castles were sinks of expenditure; the commissioners were not interested in them. The exception to this rule is in towns where there was a discrepancy between the numbers of town properties before and after the Conquest. In places like Lincoln and Stamford, the demolition required to make way for the castles is mentioned simply to explain the discrepancy.
The excavation made in 1860 of which the report was published in 1861 was done in the manner of such things at that time. The report includes what was for its time a good plan of what was found and of the castle site as it was at the time. The gate excavated was not demolished until about 1805 so there were a few people who could describe it. The site was described by Leland in the 1530s and by a man called Peek (Peak) in around 1500. The latter is quoted by Moore and by Marratt in their respective early nineteenth century books. It is all pretty well consistent with what is to be seen by way of earthworks today. The brass band had nothing to do with the excavation or report, merely to do with the visit of the Architectural Society to see the excavation while it was open.
The main archaeological information comes from a pipe trench which was observed by a professional archaeologist who drew a perfectly adequate section along it. That section gives a good deal of information such as the nature, thickness and position of the inner bailey curtain wall, clear indications of at least four phases and the width of the inner bailey moat. One somewhat surprising outcome of the excavation was a nearly complete absence of indication of pre-castle occupation of the site. However, another excavation did suggest some restricted occupation to one side of the central castle site before the time of the castle.
The castle has played a dominant part in determining the layout of the town. There is no room to doubt its presence in one form or another, from about 1140 to the nineteenth century. Even now, anyone who is not determined not to see them can hardly avoid seeing the signs in the form of parch marks, pools of water, ridges, hollows and the layout of open waterways: not least, in the way the town accommodates itself to the former castle.
I propose reversion. ( RJP 21:57, 19 September 2005 (UTC))
There being no response to the above, the offending section has been removed. ( RJP 23:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC))
Why has this section been added? The contributor is anonymous. The material is irrelevant and worthless, as it is no more than gossip, with no names, dates or references. It needs to be removed, and in no sooner than twenty-four hours I will do so. Sweetalkinguy 23:39, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
This section is now removed. Some pupils of Bourne Grammar School are so prolific at interfering with the "Bourne, Lincolnshire" entry that editing rights from the school computers are suspended by the Wikipedia powers that be. Sweetalkinguy 23:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
The notes section duplicated the references made to it. By taking out the reference which was in the info box, I have put it right but why, I don't know. I am storing the offending link here for any one who can, to put it right. [1] ( RJP 11:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)) It now seems to have put itself right. ( RJP 07:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC))
The article is getting much-needed expert input.
I have reverted the headings in the Local Government section, principally because it stands out better in the table of Contents at the top of the article. I have also massaged what I wrote earlier in with the later additions so that there is more explanation there, without the reader having to look up another article. I have put in the bit about Coats of Arms because I have pictures of the current and South Kesteven Arms for inclusion.
I will beef up the section about the railways, as I have some pictures to add. I have other pictures. The Wikipedia format allows for a subsidiary page of illustrations, there is sufficient material to make it worthwhile.
The Wikipedia guidelines are useful in general terms, but should not be seen as a rigid straightjacket. The article will need some re-arranging and editing out of duplicated information. The objective is to apply the guidelines to the article and end up with a top rating. Compared to articles about other local settlements, we are well on the way.
Guy 01:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
The in depth history of the teams and drivers belongs in the relevant articles, as this is about the town. And secondary items should be just covered im summary with a clear link to the main article. see WP:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements.
The section removed is here:
In 1962 Graham Hill won the world championship in a BRM, the first British driver to win in an all-British car. The BRM team won the Constructors' Championship, and also that year's team prize at the BBC Sports Personality of the Year awards. Motor racing fans believed this would be the start of a new era for the sport and by 1965, the company had 100 employees in Bourne. 1965 was another successful year when BRM cars gained either a first or second prize in eight of the ten Grand Prix races that were held. Graham Hill was second in the World Championship for the third successive time (1963/4/5)and Jackie Stewart finished third in his debut season. BRM were also runners-up in the Constructors' Championship for the third time in a row. Meanwhile BRM cars won four successive Monaco Grand Prix from 1963 to 1966 including 1st and 2nd finishes in 1963 and 1964 and 1st and 3rd finishes in 1965 and 1966.
However the change of engine capacity for the 1966 season from 1.5 litre to 3.0 litre spelt the beginning of a long decline. Graham Hill left at the end of the 1966 season to go to BRM's great rivals, Lotus, and Jackie Stewart left at the end of 1967 to go to Matra. After that, the cars had mixed fortunes until the Mexican driver Pedro Rodriguez scored a comeback victory in the 1970 Belgian Grand Prix at Spa. There were further successes in Austria and Italy in 1971 with a final victory at BRM's happy hunting ground of Monaco in 1972 but as the sport became the province of heavy commercial sponsorship, advancement was dogged by mechanical failures and lack of resources. The team ceased to compete after 1977.
In all, BRM won seventeen Grands Prix between 1959 and 1972, the successful drivers apart from Hill (10), Stewart (2) and Rodriguez were Jo Bonnier, the tragic Jo Siffert, Peter Gethin and finally, Jean-Pierre Beltoise.
Soon after Mays died in 1980, Rubery Owen decided to sell the BRM collection of racing cars. The sale created international interest when it took place during the Motor Show at Earl's Court, London, in October, 1981.
The section could do with being split into a brief bit about each team separately then use {{main|Link to team article}} to link clearly indicating an in depth article is available with more details.
This was decided by consensus on 6 October 2010: see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bourne Westfield Primary School. I have edited the article into a tidy package of a few paragraphs and added it under the Education subheading. If you must delete any of it, please aim to preserve the section about the archaeological site if possible, as this information is now mentioned nowhere else on Wikipedia, and is an important part of the local history and geography of the area. Thank you.
I had better add that in my opinion the decision to merge was unwise, as the Bourne Westfield Primary School article is a hefty piece of text with many references, and this Bourne article was already too full and already needed a split. My fear is now that the Bourne Westfield Primary School article content is now at risk of destruction; not because the content is faulty or un-encyclopaedic, but because there is no room for it in the Bourne article. I strongly suggest that the decision to merge be re-considered. -- Storye book ( talk) 08:59, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Talk page contents of merged page
|
---|
I am puzzled by the proposal for deletion. Why pick on this one and not, for example, Walton Girls High School or Bubwith Community Primary School or Woodside Primary School - or, for that matter, Lincoln Primary School or Fuhua Primary School. No such objection has been raised for the members of Category: Primary schools in London. There is a whole structure of school descriptions, because this is an encyclopaedia, and surely it is meant to be encyclopedic? An incomplete data struture is not as good as a complete one.-- Brunnian ( talk) 13:23, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
I have begun to research and edit this article with a view to improvement, indicating notability and possibly saving the article from deletion. Work is currently ongoing to provide a suitable photograph, and to locate appropriate citations for the more recent awards, which are not yet mentioned on the school's website. The school itself approves of this move, and is cooperating as far as possible. Besides this, I am aware that the school is the successor to a previous (and probably historical) institution, that it is probably near or associated with the historical Car Dyke, and that there are other notable matters which - since I only started today - I haven't even begun to research. Therefore I shall try to find the work-in-progress banner template, and ask you to please bear with us and not delete the article while we work on this. Thank you.-- Storye book ( talk) 17:51, 22 September 2010 (UTC) This article was merged with Bourne, Lincolnshire on 7 October 2010To administrator: please check that the merge has not been deleted from the above destination article before you delete this source article. I am particularly concerned that the archaeological site information should be preserved on Wikipedia with full references. This merger was an irresponsible idea in my opinion, as the Bourne, Lincolnshire article is now 55 kilobytes long, and carries a notice in edit mode asking for a split! I think that the merge should be re-considered, otherwise the regular editors of the destination article will in due course be obliged either to delete the merged material, or to split it to create a separate article on Bourne Westfield Primary School - and we'll be back where we started. Thank you for your cooperation.-- Storye book ( talk) 09:04, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
|
I have reduced the gallery and two of the other images to thumbnails, and distributed most of the gallery into the text as per WP, also to reduce the filesize of the page by 2KB. I removed three of the gallery images, but they are still accessible via the media link box at bottom right of the page. I checked every image, including the removed ones, to make sure that they were correctly categorised on Commons - so as to link them with the aforesaid media box. There is one image remaining - File:BourneRedHall.jpg - which needs to be transferred to Commons and properly categorised there. I am hoping that someone else can do this task, as I find the process difficult.-- Storye book ( talk) 17:24, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion the AfD outcome was perfectly well evaluated, an excellent compromise, and there are no reasons to doubt or criticise the closing admin's good faith - that's what we have admins for, though not all of them might share the same thresholds of inclusionism/deletionism. JonRidinger has left almost exactly the same comments as I was about to make about how the the target page can now be improved, and possibly even pushed to GA.-- Kudpung ( talk) 07:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
There never was a GN line from Essendine to Sleaford. The Essendine-Bourne and Bourne-Sleaford routes were built separately, and timetabled separately until the end of passenger services on widely different dates.-- Robert EA Harvey ( talk) 08:42, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I have suggested that Bourne Abbey Church of England Academy be merged to this article as the I don't believe the school meets the notability thresholds for schools. Atlas-maker ( talk) 19:10, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
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