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Given the WP:ANI discussion. However, note that any future edit-warring on a BLP will undoubtedly mean the restoration of the full protection. Black Kite (t) (c) 00:40, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I moved the lengthy prior discussion to Archive-3 [1]. -- Kolokol1 ( talk) 16:47, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Edit made: Removed unsourced libel accusing Klebnikov of anti-semitism. If citable, please re-add with proper citations. Otherwise, libel against an american hero whom many regarded as one of Russia's leading free speech proponents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.165.169.43 ( talk) 03:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
I removed phrase "Legality of his capital has been disputed though, and first official criminal charges appeared in 1999 under Evgeny Primakov's government" from lead
I have restored a reference and a quote in another reference removed by user Off2riorob. I cannot see a point in removing references form existing text. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 19:08, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
This was removed from the article.
In 2000, the House of Lords gave Berezovsky and Nikolai Glushkov permission to sue for libel in the UK courts, raising legal questions relating to jurisdiction of the UK courts, and according to numerous scholars is the leading example of libel tourism, given that only 2,000 of the 785,000 copies sold worldwide were sold in the United Kingdom. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
Why? In 2000 the House of Lords did give him permission to sue in UK courts for libel. And it is the leading example of libel tourism/terrorism. It has even been tabled in the house of lords itself. refer to this. Numerous scholarly legal sources state that jurisdictional issues arose from this approval. And it is the leading case of libel tourism/terrorism. All sources have been provided, I can add another hundred if you all like, which states it is the leading case of libel tourism. I have sourced and verified the information. The onus is on editors to do this, otherwise it can be removed from the article. You don't remove sourced information from the article. Russavia Let's dialogue 19:11, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a slim chance that this belongs in an article on libel - but it is rather irrelevant to the BLP here. In point of fact, many places allow libel suits even for a single copy sold in the jurisdiction, and, in a few places, for dissemination on the Internet with zero copies sold in the jurisdiction. [3] inter alia. Interesting stuff perhaps - but of no actual direct connection here. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 19:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Russavia, i removed reference to terrorism from the section subtitle. This is an unsourced strong allegation with serious ramifications. WP:BLP advises that such material should be removed immediately without waiting for discussion-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 23:18, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Here's a bunch of sources which can give us information on Berezovsky and libel tourism
8 The piece, written by Russian-American journalist Paul Klebnikov, portrayed Berezovsky as a man who, as Forbes pointed out in a related editorial, was followed by “a trail of corpses, uncollectible debts and competitors terrified for their lives.”9 Forbes argued that it made no sense to litigate a case involving a Russian plaintiff and a New York magazine in England, where a tiny fraction of the publication’s readers were located and which was not a focal point of the reporting. But the English courts would not loosen their grips on the suit, and Forbes eventually retracted the claims and settled the case rather than face trial. 10 Klebnikov was murdered on a Moscow street in 2004.
Those were found on the first 4 pages of a Google web search [4]
Google Book searches [5] and Google Scholar searches [6] return even more results. And even moreso which back up what was written in the article, that Berezovsky v Michael is the leading example of libel tourism, so much so that Berezovsky has used it on several occasions.
What is the problem with having this in the article? Russavia Let's dialogue 23:16, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Should the UK House of Lords permitting Berezovsky to sue for libel in UK courts, and the wide subsequent scholarly legal opinion that it create jurisdictional issues and was a leading example of libel tourism be included in the article? Russavia Let's dialogue 20:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, it's a terrific case really, where two Russian businessmen again sued Dow Jones, the American publisher, in England, in relation to an article that had appeared in Forbes magazine, which is an American business magazine. In that case there were about 785,000 copies of the magazine in circulation, 13 of them had been sold in Russia and 1,915 of them had been sold in England. So they sued, they confined their claim, just as Mr Gutnik did, saying 'All we want is damages for the damage to our reputations which has occurred in England by reason of copies of the magazine being available in England.' And one of the judges in considering the matter, said 'Well it's a very strange circumstance. These Russian businessmen haven't sued in America, where most of the magazines were circulated, because they would probably lose there, and they would lose there because of the American guarantee of freedom of speech.' But then the judge said, 'They've chosen not to sue in Russia for an equally strange reason, because it might be thought that they would be too likely to win there, because of questions about the reliability and integrity of the Russian judicial system.' So in the end the English court said it was not inappropriate for them to be allowed to maintain their case in England. So it was a real case of libel tourism of the kind we've been discussing. But note they confined their case to the distribution of magazines occurring within England itself.
The legal and academic community calls it libel tourism, and Berezovsky's case is cited as THE case that opened the floodgates in the UK, for others to engage in libel tourism. The following is from a piece entitled Libel tourism or just redress? Reconciling the (English) right to reputation with the (American) right to free speech in cross-border libel cases and was published in the Journal of Private International Law:
Exercising jurisdiction is arguably less balanced and justified, however, where neither party has any significant link to the forum, publication is minimal there yet the tribunal has simply been chosen to provide relief which would otherwise be unavailable in the--more reasonably foreseeable--alternative forum. This situation arises in practice because in an increasingly globalised world there are politicians, sporting stars, business persons and other celebrities with truly multinational reputations. Such persons, particularly if they are US residents, may seek to avoid the strictures of the First Amendment by crossing the Atlantic to sue in a claimant-friendly jurisdiction such as England. Because such persons are "known" in England they have a reputation there to vindicate by litigation. It is this situation which is most commonly decried as "libel tourism" and appears to have received its strongest support from the 2000 House of Lords decision in Berezovsky v Michaels. (23)
In Berezovsky, a US publisher was sued in England in respect of an article allegedly defamatory of a Russian businessman, suggesting that he had been engaged in organised crime and corruption in that country. Two thousand copies of the article circulated in England as compared to almost 800,000 in the US and 13 in Russia. Despite the plaintiff having only limited connections with England--gained largely through business visits--a majority of the House of Lords allowed the matter to proceed on the basis that Berezovsky had acquired a reputation in the forum. Yet, as Lord Hoffmann noted in dissent, connections with a country and reputation therein are not at all the same thing. While Berezovsky had a "truly international reputation", his reputation in England "was merely an inseparable segment of his reputation worldwide". (24) The Berezovsky decision no doubt came as an even greater shock for writers and publishers in the US, operating under their liberal standards of free speech, since not only were there minimal publications in England but the claimant himself had such limited connections to the country. The impact of this case has been felt in number of subsequent libel cases in England, all involving US defendants and non-English claimants--some of whom were even US residents. Henceforth, such publishers must anticipate being sued in
England by anyone with an English reputation--an extraordinary burden and one which hardly balances the competing US and English interests referred to above. These cases, in which US claimants have sued US defendants in England, must particularly raise the ire of US media interests and free speech advocates. From their perspective, such actions likely, and in our view may justifiably, appear as a cynical attempt by US residents to forum shop internationally to evade their own freedom of expression laws--laws which, on other occasions, they themselves may choose to seek the protection of while at home.
Scholarly opinion trumps any editorial POV on such issues, and there is nothing WP:BLP violating in anything that was written, or which will be written. A great multitude of reliable and academic sources call it libel tourism, so we are able to do so as well, because the sources are there. Russavia Let's dialogue 19:00, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Kommersant isn't loading up for me here for some reason, but I do recall it saying the other day that the suspect mentioned that it was a person who couldn't return to Russia...which in turn has led to everyone saying it is meaning Berezovsky? If that is the case, this distinction needs to be made in the article. Russavia Let's dialogue 22:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
По версии, которую Дмитрий Павлюченков сообщил следствию, переговоры о подготовке убийства Анны Политковской велись Лом-Али Гайтукаевым на Украине, поскольку предполагаемый заказчик преступления в то время был невъездным в Россию. От Лом-Али Гайтукаева Дмитрий Павлюченков узнал, что "работать предстоит по Политковской" и что за это будет хорошо заплачено. Причем вначале речь шла только о слежке, но потом от Лом-Али Гайтукаева якобы поступило указание — убийство должно быть совершено не позднее 7 октября (день рождения тогдашнего президента Владимира Путина), а еще лучше в этот день. На этом настаивал заказчик. До дня икс было еще несколько месяцев, поэтому, говорил Лом-Али Гайтукаев, спешить не надо, а лучше все хорошо подготовить. При этом Дмитрий Павлюченков не исключил, что заказ на журналистку мог поступить чеченскому "авторитету" от предпринимателя Бориса Березовского. Подтвердить эту версию защита экс-милиционера отказалась, а в следственном комитете ее оставили без комментариев.
In short, according to Pavlyuchenkov, and as reported by Kommersant [9], he was hired by a Chechen intermediary of "someone who couldn't enter Russia" to help order the assassination and that he said he was told he would be well paid. There were allegedly orders from the client that Anna was to be killed before 7 October, but yet preferably ON 7 October, because that day is Putin's birthday (queue Marilyn Monroe singing Happy Birthday Mr President). Pavlyuchenkov also said that he thought from the beginning the client could have been Berezovsky, but the investigating committee wouldn't confirm this upon being questioned by Kommersant. Then...
Шеф-редактор "Новой газеты" Сергей Соколов допустил, что "старые идеи могли получить новую кровь", но, как считает он, заказчик убийства обозревателя его газеты находится не за границей, а в России. А адвокат детей госпожи Политковской Анна Ставицкая заявила "Ъ", что в "старом" деле указаний о причастности Бориса Березовского к убийству не было. С новыми материалами защиту не знакомили. В любом случае, сказала она, важны доказательства, а "назначенный заказчик в этом деле потерпевшим не нужен".
It is basically Sokolov of NG and Stavitskaya (AP's lawyer) saying that there is no evidence of Berezovsky being involved, and that the killer is in Russia. As to Cherkasov's claims, this is not a reliable source. It is a blog, grani.ru or not grani.ru, it is a blog, and a better source than that would be needed, i.e. one with a history of fact-checking and an expectation of such.
The information clearly belongs in the article, HOWEVER, we can not say, nor will we say, that Berezovsky is responsible. But we can describe the allegations. Exactly the same as how Kommersant and other reputable media outlets have done. That is how WP:BLP works on Wikipedia. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 02:28, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
From the same libel section, we have:
Berezovsky's meteoric enrichment and involvement in power struggles have been accompanied by allegations of various crimes from his opponents. After his falling out with Putin and exile to London, these allegations became the recurrent theme of official state-controlled media, earning him comparisons with Leon Trotsky[100] and the Orwellian character Emmanuel Goldstein.[101] While he successfully defended himself in the West in four consecutive libel suites, his image in his homeland is that of an incarnation of evil, "the most hated man" in Russia.[102]
This is largely original research. Who has compared Berezovsky with Trotsky? It's not state-controlled media. It is Andrei Piontkovsky, another anti-Kremlin activist who has come up with that analogy on his own. And who has compared him with Goldstein? Again, it's not any so-called state controlled media, but again, Piontkovsky himself has invented that analogy. This sentence as it is written is entirely original research at most, and entirely misleading at least. Now to the second part, I must admit I almost pissed my pants laughing at it. "incarnation of evil"? I mean honestly, who's responsible for this? 30 Rock might be looking for some writers, whoever you are, get in touch with them. Where exactly in this article does such "incarnation of evil" occur? This POV-ridden paragraph needs to be removed from the article almost in its entirety. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 03:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
This
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In the section Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman)#Libel_suits_in_UK can an admin please remove:
While he successfully defended himself in the West in four consecutive libel suites, his image in his homeland is that of an incarnation of evil, "the most hated man" in Russia.
This is a violation of WP:BLP, in particular WP:BLPSTYLE, in that it is a complete overstatement and the source does not mention at all anything like "incarnation of evil"; it has been inserted into the article by User:Kolokol1 who has a conflict of interest in the article, in that he is admittedly connected with the subject. The assertion also that he is "the most hated man" in Russia, is somewhat relative in that it was a passing comment by Chubais. Whether the subject of the article agrees with the assertion or not, is irrelevant, it is puffery in the extreme. At the very least, the "that of an incarnation of evil" needs to be removed as a blatant BLP violation. It should not be in the article at all without a solid, reliable source. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 23:27, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
"While he successfully defended himself in the West in four consecutive libel suites, his image in his homeland is grossly negative, "the most hated man" in Russia.-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 00:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The article as it stands at the moment completely glosses over the embezzlement of millions of dollars from Aeroflot by Andava - a company of which Berezovsky and Glushkov were the major shareholders (around 35% each). It was the embezzlement of these funds by shady offshore entities that lead to charges being laid against the two. A lot of this information, as well as rulings in Switzerland against Berezovsky-related entities, has been removed from the article. [16] This is complete whitewashing of the article, given that it is the embezzlement by companies in which Berezovsky was a major shareholder that led to Berezovsky refusing to return to Russia. This is a great article which gives great insight into the embezzlement and how it all operated.
"Privatization in Russia goes through three stages, first, the privatization of profits; second, the privatization of property; third, the privatization of debts."
That quote gives great insight into how the oligarchs earned the "robber baron" monicker, and says much about how the embezzlement occurred.
The question is, why was this information removed from the article, given that the embezzlement of Aeroflot is core to Berezovsky's biography. This information will be added back into the article once unlocked.
And before anyone argues that it belongs in the Aeroflot article, as an "expert" in that area, Berezovsky/Andava/embezzlement is but a byline in the history of the company, yet it is core to Berezovsky's biography. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 02:08, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The passion and rhetoric are no substitute for fact. The Aeroflot case is a prominent part of the subject biography and is deservedly mentioned several times in the present protected narrative. The main milestones (quoted from the article) are as follows:
"In 1995 he played a key role in a management reshuffle at Aeroflot and participated in its corporatization [17] with his close associate Nikolai Glushkov becoming Aeroflot's CFO."
"In April 1999 Russia's Prosecutor General opened an investigation into embezzlement at Aeroflot and issued an arrest warrant for Berezovsky, who called the investigation politically motivated and orchestrated by his foe, Prime-minister Yevgeny Primakov. [18] The warrant was dropped a week later, after Berezovsky submitted to questioning by the prosecutors. No charges were brought. [19]
"(In October 2000) Russian prosecutors revived the Aeroflot fraud investigation and Berezovsky was questioned as a witness.[72] On November 7, 2000 Berezovsky, who was travelling abroad, failed to appear for further questioning and announced that he would not return to Russia because of what he described as "constantly intensifying pressure on me by the authorities and President Putin personally. Essentially," he said, "I'm being forced to choose whether to become a political prisoner or a political emigrant." Berezovsky claimed that Putin had made him a suspect in the Aeroflot case simply because ORT had "spoken the truth" about the sinking of the submarine Kursk.[73] In early December his associate Nikolai Glushkov was arrested in Moscow ..."[74]
"A Moscow trial in November 2007 found him guilty of embezzling nearly 215m roubles (£4.3m) from Aeroflot.The court said that in the 1990s Berezovsky was a member of an "organised criminal group" that stole the airline's foreign currency earnings. From London, Berezovsky called the tial, which sentenced him to six years in prison, 'a farce'. [12]"
In addition, three more items should be added, which I intend to do with appropriate sourcing when the article is unprotected:
I do not know of any other sourced facts about Aeroflot relevant to this BLP. The embezzlement charge has been prominently noted and put into context. Russavia, you are threatening to revert a balanced NPOV narrative into an attack piece in violation of WP:BLP. The whitewashing charge has no grounds, it is inflammatory rhetoric aimed at provoking other editors who are trying to work with you in good faith.This is disruptive behavior, for which another user has been blocked. Please do not do this -- Kolokol1 ( talk) 16:30, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I think everyone agrees that Berezovsky is a controversial figure. There are many contradictory claims, counterclaims, etc. It is also undeniable that he became a target of a defamation campaign conducted by Russian state (publications in state-controlled or influenced media, and especially TV). How to deal with it? Let's use two standard suggestions per our policies.
Please comment/amend sourced facts for a new subsection of the article:
As it appears that none of the facts or sources above are contested, below is the new section re-written in the narrative style for inclusion into the article. Please comment. We will then request an admin to add it to the page-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 21:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
{{edit protected}} There are two endorsements of the material as RS and no objections (see above), which I take for consensus. Please insert the text below as a separate subsection, immediately after Subsection "2.5 The Kremlin Family" and before "2.6 Conflict with Putin and emigration". Thanks-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 00:25, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Role in Putin's Rise to Power
Putin's meteoric rise from relative obscurity to the Russian presidency in the course of a few short months of 1999 has been attributed to his intimacy with the "Kremlin Family" (see above) as a protege of Berezovsky and Yumashev. By the end of 1999 the Family had persuaded Yeltsin to name Putin his political successor and candidate for the presidency. [13] [14] [15]
Berezovsky's acquaintance with Putin dated back to the early 1990s, when the latter, as Deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg, helped Logovaz establish a car dealership. [16] They enjoyed friendly relations; on occasion, Berezovsky took Putin skiing with him in Switzerland. [15]
In February 1999, when Berezovsky's political standing looked uncertain because of his clash with prime minister Evgeny Primakov over Aeroflot, Putin, then Director of the FSB, made a bold gesture of friendship by showing up at a birthday party for Berezovsky's wife. "I absolutely do not care what Primakov thinks of me", Putin told Berezovsky on that night. That was the beginning of their political allianace. [16] According to the Times, Spanish police discovered that on up to five different occasions in 1999 Putin had secretly visited a villa in Spain belonging to Berezovsky . [17]
In mid-July 1999 the Family dispatched Berezovsky to Biarritz, where Putin was holidaying, to persuade him to accept the position of prime minister and the role of heir apparent. [18] [16] On August 9 Yeltsin sacked the government of Sergei Stepashin and appointed Putin prime minister, amid reports that Berezovsky had masterminded the reshuffle [19]
Putin's principal opponents were the former Prime Minister Evgeny Primakov and the Mayor of Moscow Yuri Luzhkov, backed by the alliance Fatherland-All Russia. To counter this group in the Duma elections of 1999, Berezovsky was instrumental in the creation, within the space of a few months, of the Unity party, with no ideology other than its support for Putin. [20] [21] Later he disclosed that the source of Unity's funding, with Putin's knowledge and consent, was Aeroflot. [22] In the 1999 election Berezovsky campaigned as a Putin loyalist and won a seat in the Duma, representing the North Caucasian republic of Karachaevo-Cherkessia. [21]
During the Duma election campaign Berezovsky's ORT TV served as an extremely effective propaganda machine for the Putin camp, using aggressive attack reporting and programming to denigrate and ridicule Putin's rivals, Primakov and Luzhkov, tactics strongly criticized as undue interference with the media. [23] But Unity got a surprisingly high score in the elections, paving the way for Putin's election victory in spring 2000. [24]-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 01:16, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
So, "in 1999 Putin had secretly visited a villa in Spain belonging to Berezovsky". Something is missing (let's add it?). Here is it: Biophys ( talk) 03:10, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Several press reports alleged that Boris Berezovsky, Alexander Voloshin and GRU general Anton Surikov met with Shamil Basayev in France in June or July 1999 to plan the Dagestan incursion [25] [26] [27] [28]. Allegedly, Udugov proposed to start the Dagestan war to provoke the Russian response, topple the Chechen president Maskhadov and establish new Islamic republic made of Chechnya and Ingushetia that would be friendly to Russia. A transcript of the conversation was published in Moskovsky Komsomolets in September, 1999. [29]. Surikov was allegedly a GRU curator of Basayev during the Georgian–Abkhazian conflict. [30] [31] [32].
Berezovsky is the leading case in what has come to be known as "libel tourism
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This is clearly a separate issue. So I put it into a new section. Please file it as a separate Editprotect request similar to the above.
Alex Bakharev (
talk) 05:56, 28 September 2011 (UTC). The article is only semiprotected now. Please go ahead
Alex Bakharev (
talk)
06:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps the most controversial and least understood episode in Berezovsky's activities in this period was his phone conversation with Movladi Udugov in the spring of 1999, six months before the beginning of fighting in Dagestan. A transcript of that conversation was leaked to a Moscow tabloid on September 10, 1999 and appeared to mention the would-be militants’ invasion. It has been subject of much speculation ever since. As Berezovsky explained later in interviews to de Waal[54] and Goldfarb,[25] Udugov proposed to coordinate the islamists' incursion into Dagestan with Russia, so that a limited Russian response would topple the Chechen president Aslan Maskhadov and establish a new Islamic republic, which would be anti-American but friendly to Russia. Berezovsky said that he disliked the idea but reported Udugov's ouverture to prime-minister Stepashin. "Udugov and Basayev," he asserted, "conspired with Stepashin and Putin to provoke a war to topple Maskhadov ... but the agreement was for the Russian army to stop at the Terek River. However, Putin double-crossed the Chechens and started an all-out war."[25]
I merged the subsections on the Family and Purin's rise into one, to make the narrative smoother and more logical-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 11:27, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a new court case in London this week.
I wonder why this case is litigated in England. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 00:18, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
talk:Hodja Nasreddin|talk]]) 01:19, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Given that Kolokol1 has a major conflict of interest, and since it is clearly obvious that their interest in the article was a whitewashing PR effort in the lead up to the trial, I have made it very clear that there is a COI on the article, by placing the tag on the article. This is in no small part due to the fact that Kolokol1 stated on numerous occasions that they would be removing negative (yet reliably sourced) information from the article. The hatchet job even more evident due to the fact that Kolokol hasn't edited in any major fashion since the trial began. Any edits by Kolokol1 to the article should be discussed on the talk page before being enacted, and should only be acted upon by editors who do not have a connection, in one way or the other, to the subject in question. I would also suggest that editors go thru Kolokol's edits with fine-toothed comb and check for overt PR POV pushing. I had to have some BLP-violating information removed, and the rest of the article is obviously prone to Kolokol1's advocacy efforts. Russavia Let's dialogue 16:25, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
This one is essential reading before we all start arguing: http://rbth.ru/politics/2013/04/12/boris_berezovsky_back_to_black_24971.html 144.136.192.55 ( talk) 03:01, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Russavia, you are just as guilty of POV pushing by your removal of the collections of other points of view from External links. Everyone appears to have their own axe to grind here, and that includes you. That's not how Wikipedia works. We include various points of view in the body of an article, and various points of view in the External links/Further reading sections. 75.59.206.69 ( talk) 16:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, let's see. His official site. Yeah, I can see why THAT would be irrelevant. Encyclopaedia Britannica? Most people consider that the "gold standard" of non-crowd-sourced encyclopedias, well worth reading. C-SPAN, Charlie Rose, and IMDb? Oh right - let's NOT, by ANY means, encourage our readers to watch the man himself talking. And WorldCat? Books by the man himself, as well as books about him? Heavens! Readers might make up their own minds, as opposed to believing whatever this little "consensus" of "Wikipedians" (aka Russavia, who brags about to remove every single External link which presents anypresenting the "correct POV") believes. Can't have that! The sheep must be TOLD what to believe! No further reading allowed! They must be firmly instructed (Russavia again) to wade through all the tabloid junk in Google News - knowing full well they DON'T want to do that, which is why they came to Wikipedia in the first place. But you just keep on being snarky about our users, Russavia, and show as much contempt for them as you feel. Look guys, you're on your own. You clearly have Jimmy Wales's full support to excise Every Single Viewpoint other than your own from this article, and every other article, spinning them to your heart's content. Go for it. Destroy Wikipedia's reputation. Drive off more editors. And I hope you get EXACTLY what you have coming. Unfortunately, so will everyone else. 75.59.206.69 ( talk) 18:11, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
This means all contentious claims must be specifically sourced per WP:RS and also no "original research" (such as "he has not contested the book") are permitted per Wikipedia policies. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 02:13, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
(OD) OMG - I canna believe this claim. Collect ( talk) 00:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I do not think any policy were violated with the deletion or restoring this is just style and deciding that is notable and that is not. I think after a long paragraph about Forbes litigation it is fair to add information that Klebnikov repeated and elaborated his allegations in the books. The info about the books been not contested but I reformulated it in a way to not make an appearance that it is equal to Berezovsky admission they are true Alex Bakharev ( talk) 01:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Someone
User:Helios256 has added a claim, that Berezovsky has died today. I just heard the same rumor, but have not yet looked for reliable sources. --
Petri Krohn (
talk)
16:55, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)The institution where Berezovsky was employed before the 1990s, Russian: Институт проблем управления, is best translated as the Institute of Control Sciences, see the official website.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 23:32, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Would anyone mind if I replace the various instances of the non-English "ouster" with "ejection"? Back-forming a noun out of the verb "to oust" is doubtless very clever but it's vile and cacophonous. JohnHarris ( talk) 16:38, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Go ahead, don't mind me! :) You could also try "ousting". Harfarhs ( talk) 22:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
144.136.192.55 ( talk) 23:03, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
In the box we habe Yelena Gorbunova (1996–2012; separated), but http://rt.com/news/berezovsky-lawsuit-lover-641/ say Gorbunova live for 2o years with Berezovsky (1992-2012). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Falkmart ( talk • contribs) 11:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I have two observations/tentative requests regarding this.
I ran across an opinion piece at Bloomberg that may be helpful here. To quote from it:
Berezovsky's claims were actually pretty incredible, and the article should make this more clear. The court's Executive Summary is sufficient for this purpose.) Berezovsky claimed that he and Abramovich had an oral agreement that he owned part of Sibneft and RusAl, which was made 16 years prior. Who makes oral agreements about ownership of billions of dollars of property? As the Bloomberg piece notes, Abramovich actually owned the shares. Thus, Berezovsky had to prove, by his court testimony alone (and that of some witnesses who stood to gain financially if Berezovsky won, something that Berezovsky attempted to conceal from the court) something that was inherently highly implausible. Thus, we are back to the issue of overconfidence. To quote from the Bloomberg piece again:
The link in the quote above is illuminating as well, for those who read Russian. – Herzen ( talk) 19:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I understand that the cause of Mr. Berezovsky's death being suicide is now under investigation by the British authorities. I also heard that a wire was discovered wrapped around his throat, but my source on the latter is second-hand. Dick Kimball ( talk) 11:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
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Not really sure what this edit was about.
Berezovsky has apparently attempted to organize assassinations, but he has failed those attempts. It's evident from the following exchange between Petr Aven ("А") and Stanislav Belkovskiy ("Б") in Petr Aven's book "Время Березовского":
Б: Понимаете, я исхожу из того, что граница между добром и злом проходит не между разными людьми – она проходит внутри одного человека. И внутри меня она тоже проходит, и внутри Березовского она проходила. Ведь не случайно убийства ему практически не удавались.
А: Он просто ничего организовать не умел, поэтому и не удавались.
Б: Ну, с одной стороны так, а если сказать по-другому, то Господь Бог не давал ему совершить этого страшного греха. Господь уберег его. Это значит, Господь Бог его пожалел и оценил некие плюсы, которые в нем были. Я не Господь Бог, конечно, но я могу эту логику транслировать и на себя. Я оценил его плюсы настолько высоко, что позволял себе закрыть глаза на его минусы, тем более что ни в каких авантюрных проектах я не участвовал.
It was 1990s Russia. If you disagree with that information, you are rewriting history.
Document hippo ( talk) 01:13, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
My edition was reverted for apparently not being constructive but I tried to make it consistent with other articles. JohnLogan1600 ( talk) 17:53, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
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Given the WP:ANI discussion. However, note that any future edit-warring on a BLP will undoubtedly mean the restoration of the full protection. Black Kite (t) (c) 00:40, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
I moved the lengthy prior discussion to Archive-3 [1]. -- Kolokol1 ( talk) 16:47, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Edit made: Removed unsourced libel accusing Klebnikov of anti-semitism. If citable, please re-add with proper citations. Otherwise, libel against an american hero whom many regarded as one of Russia's leading free speech proponents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.165.169.43 ( talk) 03:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
I removed phrase "Legality of his capital has been disputed though, and first official criminal charges appeared in 1999 under Evgeny Primakov's government" from lead
I have restored a reference and a quote in another reference removed by user Off2riorob. I cannot see a point in removing references form existing text. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 19:08, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
This was removed from the article.
In 2000, the House of Lords gave Berezovsky and Nikolai Glushkov permission to sue for libel in the UK courts, raising legal questions relating to jurisdiction of the UK courts, and according to numerous scholars is the leading example of libel tourism, given that only 2,000 of the 785,000 copies sold worldwide were sold in the United Kingdom. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
Why? In 2000 the House of Lords did give him permission to sue in UK courts for libel. And it is the leading example of libel tourism/terrorism. It has even been tabled in the house of lords itself. refer to this. Numerous scholarly legal sources state that jurisdictional issues arose from this approval. And it is the leading case of libel tourism/terrorism. All sources have been provided, I can add another hundred if you all like, which states it is the leading case of libel tourism. I have sourced and verified the information. The onus is on editors to do this, otherwise it can be removed from the article. You don't remove sourced information from the article. Russavia Let's dialogue 19:11, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a slim chance that this belongs in an article on libel - but it is rather irrelevant to the BLP here. In point of fact, many places allow libel suits even for a single copy sold in the jurisdiction, and, in a few places, for dissemination on the Internet with zero copies sold in the jurisdiction. [3] inter alia. Interesting stuff perhaps - but of no actual direct connection here. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 19:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Russavia, i removed reference to terrorism from the section subtitle. This is an unsourced strong allegation with serious ramifications. WP:BLP advises that such material should be removed immediately without waiting for discussion-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 23:18, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Here's a bunch of sources which can give us information on Berezovsky and libel tourism
8 The piece, written by Russian-American journalist Paul Klebnikov, portrayed Berezovsky as a man who, as Forbes pointed out in a related editorial, was followed by “a trail of corpses, uncollectible debts and competitors terrified for their lives.”9 Forbes argued that it made no sense to litigate a case involving a Russian plaintiff and a New York magazine in England, where a tiny fraction of the publication’s readers were located and which was not a focal point of the reporting. But the English courts would not loosen their grips on the suit, and Forbes eventually retracted the claims and settled the case rather than face trial. 10 Klebnikov was murdered on a Moscow street in 2004.
Those were found on the first 4 pages of a Google web search [4]
Google Book searches [5] and Google Scholar searches [6] return even more results. And even moreso which back up what was written in the article, that Berezovsky v Michael is the leading example of libel tourism, so much so that Berezovsky has used it on several occasions.
What is the problem with having this in the article? Russavia Let's dialogue 23:16, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Should the UK House of Lords permitting Berezovsky to sue for libel in UK courts, and the wide subsequent scholarly legal opinion that it create jurisdictional issues and was a leading example of libel tourism be included in the article? Russavia Let's dialogue 20:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, it's a terrific case really, where two Russian businessmen again sued Dow Jones, the American publisher, in England, in relation to an article that had appeared in Forbes magazine, which is an American business magazine. In that case there were about 785,000 copies of the magazine in circulation, 13 of them had been sold in Russia and 1,915 of them had been sold in England. So they sued, they confined their claim, just as Mr Gutnik did, saying 'All we want is damages for the damage to our reputations which has occurred in England by reason of copies of the magazine being available in England.' And one of the judges in considering the matter, said 'Well it's a very strange circumstance. These Russian businessmen haven't sued in America, where most of the magazines were circulated, because they would probably lose there, and they would lose there because of the American guarantee of freedom of speech.' But then the judge said, 'They've chosen not to sue in Russia for an equally strange reason, because it might be thought that they would be too likely to win there, because of questions about the reliability and integrity of the Russian judicial system.' So in the end the English court said it was not inappropriate for them to be allowed to maintain their case in England. So it was a real case of libel tourism of the kind we've been discussing. But note they confined their case to the distribution of magazines occurring within England itself.
The legal and academic community calls it libel tourism, and Berezovsky's case is cited as THE case that opened the floodgates in the UK, for others to engage in libel tourism. The following is from a piece entitled Libel tourism or just redress? Reconciling the (English) right to reputation with the (American) right to free speech in cross-border libel cases and was published in the Journal of Private International Law:
Exercising jurisdiction is arguably less balanced and justified, however, where neither party has any significant link to the forum, publication is minimal there yet the tribunal has simply been chosen to provide relief which would otherwise be unavailable in the--more reasonably foreseeable--alternative forum. This situation arises in practice because in an increasingly globalised world there are politicians, sporting stars, business persons and other celebrities with truly multinational reputations. Such persons, particularly if they are US residents, may seek to avoid the strictures of the First Amendment by crossing the Atlantic to sue in a claimant-friendly jurisdiction such as England. Because such persons are "known" in England they have a reputation there to vindicate by litigation. It is this situation which is most commonly decried as "libel tourism" and appears to have received its strongest support from the 2000 House of Lords decision in Berezovsky v Michaels. (23)
In Berezovsky, a US publisher was sued in England in respect of an article allegedly defamatory of a Russian businessman, suggesting that he had been engaged in organised crime and corruption in that country. Two thousand copies of the article circulated in England as compared to almost 800,000 in the US and 13 in Russia. Despite the plaintiff having only limited connections with England--gained largely through business visits--a majority of the House of Lords allowed the matter to proceed on the basis that Berezovsky had acquired a reputation in the forum. Yet, as Lord Hoffmann noted in dissent, connections with a country and reputation therein are not at all the same thing. While Berezovsky had a "truly international reputation", his reputation in England "was merely an inseparable segment of his reputation worldwide". (24) The Berezovsky decision no doubt came as an even greater shock for writers and publishers in the US, operating under their liberal standards of free speech, since not only were there minimal publications in England but the claimant himself had such limited connections to the country. The impact of this case has been felt in number of subsequent libel cases in England, all involving US defendants and non-English claimants--some of whom were even US residents. Henceforth, such publishers must anticipate being sued in
England by anyone with an English reputation--an extraordinary burden and one which hardly balances the competing US and English interests referred to above. These cases, in which US claimants have sued US defendants in England, must particularly raise the ire of US media interests and free speech advocates. From their perspective, such actions likely, and in our view may justifiably, appear as a cynical attempt by US residents to forum shop internationally to evade their own freedom of expression laws--laws which, on other occasions, they themselves may choose to seek the protection of while at home.
Scholarly opinion trumps any editorial POV on such issues, and there is nothing WP:BLP violating in anything that was written, or which will be written. A great multitude of reliable and academic sources call it libel tourism, so we are able to do so as well, because the sources are there. Russavia Let's dialogue 19:00, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Kommersant isn't loading up for me here for some reason, but I do recall it saying the other day that the suspect mentioned that it was a person who couldn't return to Russia...which in turn has led to everyone saying it is meaning Berezovsky? If that is the case, this distinction needs to be made in the article. Russavia Let's dialogue 22:25, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
По версии, которую Дмитрий Павлюченков сообщил следствию, переговоры о подготовке убийства Анны Политковской велись Лом-Али Гайтукаевым на Украине, поскольку предполагаемый заказчик преступления в то время был невъездным в Россию. От Лом-Али Гайтукаева Дмитрий Павлюченков узнал, что "работать предстоит по Политковской" и что за это будет хорошо заплачено. Причем вначале речь шла только о слежке, но потом от Лом-Али Гайтукаева якобы поступило указание — убийство должно быть совершено не позднее 7 октября (день рождения тогдашнего президента Владимира Путина), а еще лучше в этот день. На этом настаивал заказчик. До дня икс было еще несколько месяцев, поэтому, говорил Лом-Али Гайтукаев, спешить не надо, а лучше все хорошо подготовить. При этом Дмитрий Павлюченков не исключил, что заказ на журналистку мог поступить чеченскому "авторитету" от предпринимателя Бориса Березовского. Подтвердить эту версию защита экс-милиционера отказалась, а в следственном комитете ее оставили без комментариев.
In short, according to Pavlyuchenkov, and as reported by Kommersant [9], he was hired by a Chechen intermediary of "someone who couldn't enter Russia" to help order the assassination and that he said he was told he would be well paid. There were allegedly orders from the client that Anna was to be killed before 7 October, but yet preferably ON 7 October, because that day is Putin's birthday (queue Marilyn Monroe singing Happy Birthday Mr President). Pavlyuchenkov also said that he thought from the beginning the client could have been Berezovsky, but the investigating committee wouldn't confirm this upon being questioned by Kommersant. Then...
Шеф-редактор "Новой газеты" Сергей Соколов допустил, что "старые идеи могли получить новую кровь", но, как считает он, заказчик убийства обозревателя его газеты находится не за границей, а в России. А адвокат детей госпожи Политковской Анна Ставицкая заявила "Ъ", что в "старом" деле указаний о причастности Бориса Березовского к убийству не было. С новыми материалами защиту не знакомили. В любом случае, сказала она, важны доказательства, а "назначенный заказчик в этом деле потерпевшим не нужен".
It is basically Sokolov of NG and Stavitskaya (AP's lawyer) saying that there is no evidence of Berezovsky being involved, and that the killer is in Russia. As to Cherkasov's claims, this is not a reliable source. It is a blog, grani.ru or not grani.ru, it is a blog, and a better source than that would be needed, i.e. one with a history of fact-checking and an expectation of such.
The information clearly belongs in the article, HOWEVER, we can not say, nor will we say, that Berezovsky is responsible. But we can describe the allegations. Exactly the same as how Kommersant and other reputable media outlets have done. That is how WP:BLP works on Wikipedia. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 02:28, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
From the same libel section, we have:
Berezovsky's meteoric enrichment and involvement in power struggles have been accompanied by allegations of various crimes from his opponents. After his falling out with Putin and exile to London, these allegations became the recurrent theme of official state-controlled media, earning him comparisons with Leon Trotsky[100] and the Orwellian character Emmanuel Goldstein.[101] While he successfully defended himself in the West in four consecutive libel suites, his image in his homeland is that of an incarnation of evil, "the most hated man" in Russia.[102]
This is largely original research. Who has compared Berezovsky with Trotsky? It's not state-controlled media. It is Andrei Piontkovsky, another anti-Kremlin activist who has come up with that analogy on his own. And who has compared him with Goldstein? Again, it's not any so-called state controlled media, but again, Piontkovsky himself has invented that analogy. This sentence as it is written is entirely original research at most, and entirely misleading at least. Now to the second part, I must admit I almost pissed my pants laughing at it. "incarnation of evil"? I mean honestly, who's responsible for this? 30 Rock might be looking for some writers, whoever you are, get in touch with them. Where exactly in this article does such "incarnation of evil" occur? This POV-ridden paragraph needs to be removed from the article almost in its entirety. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 03:47, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
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In the section Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman)#Libel_suits_in_UK can an admin please remove:
While he successfully defended himself in the West in four consecutive libel suites, his image in his homeland is that of an incarnation of evil, "the most hated man" in Russia.
This is a violation of WP:BLP, in particular WP:BLPSTYLE, in that it is a complete overstatement and the source does not mention at all anything like "incarnation of evil"; it has been inserted into the article by User:Kolokol1 who has a conflict of interest in the article, in that he is admittedly connected with the subject. The assertion also that he is "the most hated man" in Russia, is somewhat relative in that it was a passing comment by Chubais. Whether the subject of the article agrees with the assertion or not, is irrelevant, it is puffery in the extreme. At the very least, the "that of an incarnation of evil" needs to be removed as a blatant BLP violation. It should not be in the article at all without a solid, reliable source. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 23:27, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
"While he successfully defended himself in the West in four consecutive libel suites, his image in his homeland is grossly negative, "the most hated man" in Russia.-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 00:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The article as it stands at the moment completely glosses over the embezzlement of millions of dollars from Aeroflot by Andava - a company of which Berezovsky and Glushkov were the major shareholders (around 35% each). It was the embezzlement of these funds by shady offshore entities that lead to charges being laid against the two. A lot of this information, as well as rulings in Switzerland against Berezovsky-related entities, has been removed from the article. [16] This is complete whitewashing of the article, given that it is the embezzlement by companies in which Berezovsky was a major shareholder that led to Berezovsky refusing to return to Russia. This is a great article which gives great insight into the embezzlement and how it all operated.
"Privatization in Russia goes through three stages, first, the privatization of profits; second, the privatization of property; third, the privatization of debts."
That quote gives great insight into how the oligarchs earned the "robber baron" monicker, and says much about how the embezzlement occurred.
The question is, why was this information removed from the article, given that the embezzlement of Aeroflot is core to Berezovsky's biography. This information will be added back into the article once unlocked.
And before anyone argues that it belongs in the Aeroflot article, as an "expert" in that area, Berezovsky/Andava/embezzlement is but a byline in the history of the company, yet it is core to Berezovsky's biography. -- Russavia Let's dialogue 02:08, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The passion and rhetoric are no substitute for fact. The Aeroflot case is a prominent part of the subject biography and is deservedly mentioned several times in the present protected narrative. The main milestones (quoted from the article) are as follows:
"In 1995 he played a key role in a management reshuffle at Aeroflot and participated in its corporatization [17] with his close associate Nikolai Glushkov becoming Aeroflot's CFO."
"In April 1999 Russia's Prosecutor General opened an investigation into embezzlement at Aeroflot and issued an arrest warrant for Berezovsky, who called the investigation politically motivated and orchestrated by his foe, Prime-minister Yevgeny Primakov. [18] The warrant was dropped a week later, after Berezovsky submitted to questioning by the prosecutors. No charges were brought. [19]
"(In October 2000) Russian prosecutors revived the Aeroflot fraud investigation and Berezovsky was questioned as a witness.[72] On November 7, 2000 Berezovsky, who was travelling abroad, failed to appear for further questioning and announced that he would not return to Russia because of what he described as "constantly intensifying pressure on me by the authorities and President Putin personally. Essentially," he said, "I'm being forced to choose whether to become a political prisoner or a political emigrant." Berezovsky claimed that Putin had made him a suspect in the Aeroflot case simply because ORT had "spoken the truth" about the sinking of the submarine Kursk.[73] In early December his associate Nikolai Glushkov was arrested in Moscow ..."[74]
"A Moscow trial in November 2007 found him guilty of embezzling nearly 215m roubles (£4.3m) from Aeroflot.The court said that in the 1990s Berezovsky was a member of an "organised criminal group" that stole the airline's foreign currency earnings. From London, Berezovsky called the tial, which sentenced him to six years in prison, 'a farce'. [12]"
In addition, three more items should be added, which I intend to do with appropriate sourcing when the article is unprotected:
I do not know of any other sourced facts about Aeroflot relevant to this BLP. The embezzlement charge has been prominently noted and put into context. Russavia, you are threatening to revert a balanced NPOV narrative into an attack piece in violation of WP:BLP. The whitewashing charge has no grounds, it is inflammatory rhetoric aimed at provoking other editors who are trying to work with you in good faith.This is disruptive behavior, for which another user has been blocked. Please do not do this -- Kolokol1 ( talk) 16:30, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I think everyone agrees that Berezovsky is a controversial figure. There are many contradictory claims, counterclaims, etc. It is also undeniable that he became a target of a defamation campaign conducted by Russian state (publications in state-controlled or influenced media, and especially TV). How to deal with it? Let's use two standard suggestions per our policies.
Please comment/amend sourced facts for a new subsection of the article:
As it appears that none of the facts or sources above are contested, below is the new section re-written in the narrative style for inclusion into the article. Please comment. We will then request an admin to add it to the page-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 21:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
{{edit protected}} There are two endorsements of the material as RS and no objections (see above), which I take for consensus. Please insert the text below as a separate subsection, immediately after Subsection "2.5 The Kremlin Family" and before "2.6 Conflict with Putin and emigration". Thanks-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 00:25, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Role in Putin's Rise to Power
Putin's meteoric rise from relative obscurity to the Russian presidency in the course of a few short months of 1999 has been attributed to his intimacy with the "Kremlin Family" (see above) as a protege of Berezovsky and Yumashev. By the end of 1999 the Family had persuaded Yeltsin to name Putin his political successor and candidate for the presidency. [13] [14] [15]
Berezovsky's acquaintance with Putin dated back to the early 1990s, when the latter, as Deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg, helped Logovaz establish a car dealership. [16] They enjoyed friendly relations; on occasion, Berezovsky took Putin skiing with him in Switzerland. [15]
In February 1999, when Berezovsky's political standing looked uncertain because of his clash with prime minister Evgeny Primakov over Aeroflot, Putin, then Director of the FSB, made a bold gesture of friendship by showing up at a birthday party for Berezovsky's wife. "I absolutely do not care what Primakov thinks of me", Putin told Berezovsky on that night. That was the beginning of their political allianace. [16] According to the Times, Spanish police discovered that on up to five different occasions in 1999 Putin had secretly visited a villa in Spain belonging to Berezovsky . [17]
In mid-July 1999 the Family dispatched Berezovsky to Biarritz, where Putin was holidaying, to persuade him to accept the position of prime minister and the role of heir apparent. [18] [16] On August 9 Yeltsin sacked the government of Sergei Stepashin and appointed Putin prime minister, amid reports that Berezovsky had masterminded the reshuffle [19]
Putin's principal opponents were the former Prime Minister Evgeny Primakov and the Mayor of Moscow Yuri Luzhkov, backed by the alliance Fatherland-All Russia. To counter this group in the Duma elections of 1999, Berezovsky was instrumental in the creation, within the space of a few months, of the Unity party, with no ideology other than its support for Putin. [20] [21] Later he disclosed that the source of Unity's funding, with Putin's knowledge and consent, was Aeroflot. [22] In the 1999 election Berezovsky campaigned as a Putin loyalist and won a seat in the Duma, representing the North Caucasian republic of Karachaevo-Cherkessia. [21]
During the Duma election campaign Berezovsky's ORT TV served as an extremely effective propaganda machine for the Putin camp, using aggressive attack reporting and programming to denigrate and ridicule Putin's rivals, Primakov and Luzhkov, tactics strongly criticized as undue interference with the media. [23] But Unity got a surprisingly high score in the elections, paving the way for Putin's election victory in spring 2000. [24]-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 01:16, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
So, "in 1999 Putin had secretly visited a villa in Spain belonging to Berezovsky". Something is missing (let's add it?). Here is it: Biophys ( talk) 03:10, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Several press reports alleged that Boris Berezovsky, Alexander Voloshin and GRU general Anton Surikov met with Shamil Basayev in France in June or July 1999 to plan the Dagestan incursion [25] [26] [27] [28]. Allegedly, Udugov proposed to start the Dagestan war to provoke the Russian response, topple the Chechen president Maskhadov and establish new Islamic republic made of Chechnya and Ingushetia that would be friendly to Russia. A transcript of the conversation was published in Moskovsky Komsomolets in September, 1999. [29]. Surikov was allegedly a GRU curator of Basayev during the Georgian–Abkhazian conflict. [30] [31] [32].
Berezovsky is the leading case in what has come to be known as "libel tourism
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This is clearly a separate issue. So I put it into a new section. Please file it as a separate Editprotect request similar to the above.
Alex Bakharev (
talk) 05:56, 28 September 2011 (UTC). The article is only semiprotected now. Please go ahead
Alex Bakharev (
talk)
06:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps the most controversial and least understood episode in Berezovsky's activities in this period was his phone conversation with Movladi Udugov in the spring of 1999, six months before the beginning of fighting in Dagestan. A transcript of that conversation was leaked to a Moscow tabloid on September 10, 1999 and appeared to mention the would-be militants’ invasion. It has been subject of much speculation ever since. As Berezovsky explained later in interviews to de Waal[54] and Goldfarb,[25] Udugov proposed to coordinate the islamists' incursion into Dagestan with Russia, so that a limited Russian response would topple the Chechen president Aslan Maskhadov and establish a new Islamic republic, which would be anti-American but friendly to Russia. Berezovsky said that he disliked the idea but reported Udugov's ouverture to prime-minister Stepashin. "Udugov and Basayev," he asserted, "conspired with Stepashin and Putin to provoke a war to topple Maskhadov ... but the agreement was for the Russian army to stop at the Terek River. However, Putin double-crossed the Chechens and started an all-out war."[25]
I merged the subsections on the Family and Purin's rise into one, to make the narrative smoother and more logical-- Kolokol1 ( talk) 11:27, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a new court case in London this week.
I wonder why this case is litigated in England. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 00:18, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
talk:Hodja Nasreddin|talk]]) 01:19, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Given that Kolokol1 has a major conflict of interest, and since it is clearly obvious that their interest in the article was a whitewashing PR effort in the lead up to the trial, I have made it very clear that there is a COI on the article, by placing the tag on the article. This is in no small part due to the fact that Kolokol1 stated on numerous occasions that they would be removing negative (yet reliably sourced) information from the article. The hatchet job even more evident due to the fact that Kolokol hasn't edited in any major fashion since the trial began. Any edits by Kolokol1 to the article should be discussed on the talk page before being enacted, and should only be acted upon by editors who do not have a connection, in one way or the other, to the subject in question. I would also suggest that editors go thru Kolokol's edits with fine-toothed comb and check for overt PR POV pushing. I had to have some BLP-violating information removed, and the rest of the article is obviously prone to Kolokol1's advocacy efforts. Russavia Let's dialogue 16:25, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
This one is essential reading before we all start arguing: http://rbth.ru/politics/2013/04/12/boris_berezovsky_back_to_black_24971.html 144.136.192.55 ( talk) 03:01, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Russavia, you are just as guilty of POV pushing by your removal of the collections of other points of view from External links. Everyone appears to have their own axe to grind here, and that includes you. That's not how Wikipedia works. We include various points of view in the body of an article, and various points of view in the External links/Further reading sections. 75.59.206.69 ( talk) 16:02, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, let's see. His official site. Yeah, I can see why THAT would be irrelevant. Encyclopaedia Britannica? Most people consider that the "gold standard" of non-crowd-sourced encyclopedias, well worth reading. C-SPAN, Charlie Rose, and IMDb? Oh right - let's NOT, by ANY means, encourage our readers to watch the man himself talking. And WorldCat? Books by the man himself, as well as books about him? Heavens! Readers might make up their own minds, as opposed to believing whatever this little "consensus" of "Wikipedians" (aka Russavia, who brags about to remove every single External link which presents anypresenting the "correct POV") believes. Can't have that! The sheep must be TOLD what to believe! No further reading allowed! They must be firmly instructed (Russavia again) to wade through all the tabloid junk in Google News - knowing full well they DON'T want to do that, which is why they came to Wikipedia in the first place. But you just keep on being snarky about our users, Russavia, and show as much contempt for them as you feel. Look guys, you're on your own. You clearly have Jimmy Wales's full support to excise Every Single Viewpoint other than your own from this article, and every other article, spinning them to your heart's content. Go for it. Destroy Wikipedia's reputation. Drive off more editors. And I hope you get EXACTLY what you have coming. Unfortunately, so will everyone else. 75.59.206.69 ( talk) 18:11, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
This means all contentious claims must be specifically sourced per WP:RS and also no "original research" (such as "he has not contested the book") are permitted per Wikipedia policies. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 02:13, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
(OD) OMG - I canna believe this claim. Collect ( talk) 00:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I do not think any policy were violated with the deletion or restoring this is just style and deciding that is notable and that is not. I think after a long paragraph about Forbes litigation it is fair to add information that Klebnikov repeated and elaborated his allegations in the books. The info about the books been not contested but I reformulated it in a way to not make an appearance that it is equal to Berezovsky admission they are true Alex Bakharev ( talk) 01:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
Someone
User:Helios256 has added a claim, that Berezovsky has died today. I just heard the same rumor, but have not yet looked for reliable sources. --
Petri Krohn (
talk)
16:55, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)The institution where Berezovsky was employed before the 1990s, Russian: Институт проблем управления, is best translated as the Institute of Control Sciences, see the official website.-- Ymblanter ( talk) 23:32, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Would anyone mind if I replace the various instances of the non-English "ouster" with "ejection"? Back-forming a noun out of the verb "to oust" is doubtless very clever but it's vile and cacophonous. JohnHarris ( talk) 16:38, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Go ahead, don't mind me! :) You could also try "ousting". Harfarhs ( talk) 22:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
144.136.192.55 ( talk) 23:03, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
In the box we habe Yelena Gorbunova (1996–2012; separated), but http://rt.com/news/berezovsky-lawsuit-lover-641/ say Gorbunova live for 2o years with Berezovsky (1992-2012). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Falkmart ( talk • contribs) 11:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
I have two observations/tentative requests regarding this.
I ran across an opinion piece at Bloomberg that may be helpful here. To quote from it:
Berezovsky's claims were actually pretty incredible, and the article should make this more clear. The court's Executive Summary is sufficient for this purpose.) Berezovsky claimed that he and Abramovich had an oral agreement that he owned part of Sibneft and RusAl, which was made 16 years prior. Who makes oral agreements about ownership of billions of dollars of property? As the Bloomberg piece notes, Abramovich actually owned the shares. Thus, Berezovsky had to prove, by his court testimony alone (and that of some witnesses who stood to gain financially if Berezovsky won, something that Berezovsky attempted to conceal from the court) something that was inherently highly implausible. Thus, we are back to the issue of overconfidence. To quote from the Bloomberg piece again:
The link in the quote above is illuminating as well, for those who read Russian. – Herzen ( talk) 19:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I understand that the cause of Mr. Berezovsky's death being suicide is now under investigation by the British authorities. I also heard that a wire was discovered wrapped around his throat, but my source on the latter is second-hand. Dick Kimball ( talk) 11:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
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Not really sure what this edit was about.
Berezovsky has apparently attempted to organize assassinations, but he has failed those attempts. It's evident from the following exchange between Petr Aven ("А") and Stanislav Belkovskiy ("Б") in Petr Aven's book "Время Березовского":
Б: Понимаете, я исхожу из того, что граница между добром и злом проходит не между разными людьми – она проходит внутри одного человека. И внутри меня она тоже проходит, и внутри Березовского она проходила. Ведь не случайно убийства ему практически не удавались.
А: Он просто ничего организовать не умел, поэтому и не удавались.
Б: Ну, с одной стороны так, а если сказать по-другому, то Господь Бог не давал ему совершить этого страшного греха. Господь уберег его. Это значит, Господь Бог его пожалел и оценил некие плюсы, которые в нем были. Я не Господь Бог, конечно, но я могу эту логику транслировать и на себя. Я оценил его плюсы настолько высоко, что позволял себе закрыть глаза на его минусы, тем более что ни в каких авантюрных проектах я не участвовал.
It was 1990s Russia. If you disagree with that information, you are rewriting history.
Document hippo ( talk) 01:13, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
My edition was reverted for apparently not being constructive but I tried to make it consistent with other articles. JohnLogan1600 ( talk) 17:53, 13 October 2019 (UTC)