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Yes, I am the fellow whom this article is about. I welcome objective clean-up, but have lately been having to clean-up "adjustments" to the article by partisan operatives who are far too clever to be obvious about their conflicts. Let me be very obvious about mine. Life would be easier if I didn't have a Wikipedia article about me which my partisan opponents can freely manipulate, and I am attempting to petition the admins to protect the article to prevent this. In the meantime, it is not my style to disguise my identity, or hire others to do it under a cloak.Bob Beers 00:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
I had moved this page to Robert T. Beers back in December to create a disambiguation page for Bob Beers. I was recently contacted by the subject of the article with a request to move it back to Bob Beers since he has never answered to the name Robert.. Since we need the DAB page, I can't move it to Bob Beers, and since there are two Bob Beers who are Nevada politicians, Bob Beers (politician) is out.. One suggestion was Bob Beers (CPA) since that was his career before politics and he is still a CPA in addition to being a politician. Others include Bob T. Beers, Bob Beers (Nevada Senator), although the latter could eventually require disambiguation.. are there any other suggestions/preferences? -- Versa geek 14:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Is this person really that notable to have an article? 71.108.130.79 ( talk) 09:00, 27 May 2013 (UTC) No. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs) 05:43, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
The reader may wish to jump to the next topic on this talk page, which summarizes this topic in 4,000 fewer words.
15 Aug 2014 - A minor "editing war" has arisen with a partisan editor creating increased ambiguity on this page. An entry has been created on the Biographies of Living Persons noticeboard [1] to petition administrators to either lock or remove altogether this Wikipedia entry about me. 21:11, 15 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
I can scan and post my high school and college diplomas, and my 1982 AP award, and will do so, but I think they all fail the exacting standards of Wikipedia. If the admins insist on having a page for a minor fellow like me, but refuse to recognize original source documents as "proof" of past accomplishments, where do we go from here?Bob Beers 04:54, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
16 Aug 2014 - To summarize:16 Aug 2014 - To summarize:
An entry has been created on the Biographies of Living Persons noticeboard [2] to petition administrators to either lock or remove altogether this Wikipedia entry about me. This occurred after user Tiller54 performed a series of edits on the article about me that I believed increased ambiguity and/or reduced objectivity of the article.
A few commenters expressed mild fright at the concept of a subject of an article participating so directly in Wikipedia, citing editing with a conflict of interest. I noted that I am transparent about it, and that most people who make non-technical changes to Wikipedia articles about living persons are those who support or oppose them, especially in politics. The problem is endemic in all political discussion, including encyclopedia entries.
The heart of the debate was expressed by Tiller54 here:
I corrected Tiller54's factual error, noting that the "other" Bob Beers is described in another Wikipedia article, thus the ambiguity does in fact exist.
I voiced my opinion that Tiller54's second paragraph seems to support a diversity of treatment of this matter, and certainly lacks consistency. Not all elected officials are tagged with "Politician" in addtion to their name as the title of their article, and requested of Tiller54 the Wikipedia article describing a preferred style for this disambiguity problem. It would seem particularly significant in my case, as my opponent (Harry Reid) does not carry any label on his Wikipedia article.
In the absense, I would contend that using a politician's current office is more specific than a generic label.
Tiller54 also asserted "Articles aren't moved around based on the person's job" so I requested the policy authority for his statement, suggesting it was merely his personal opinion.
Tiller54 responded:
User Cullen dropped by with some cleanup edits and agreed with Tiller54 that Wikipedia's policy requires an article about me, even if I find monitoring it for changes by opposing campaigns bothersome:
and
The Article Titles guidance that "Article titles should be recognizable, concise, natural, precise, and consistent."
I think Tiller54 and Cullen are suggesting that by "consistent" the policy demands that article titles never change. I disagree with this interpretation. That would be better described by selecting the word "constant" for the policy. I believe "consistent" means that it is the same style choices for every article, a measure by which Wikipedia is currently inconsistent.
The Article Title guidance above does not address the problem here, which involves sacrificing conciseness and precision (the default article title would be the person's name with no embellishment) on the altar of ambiguity (you have multiple people with the same name).
The most recent addition was from Tiller54 suggesting titling the article with "the date of birth, as is done when several people have the same name? We could move Bob L. Beers to "Bob Beers (Nevada politician, born 1951)" and this article to "Bob Beers (Nevada politician, born 1959)"?.
I would propose the Wikipedia community promulgate a new standard for titling articles about multiple people with the same name, whereby no job titles are included in article titles but middle initials (or names, if they are used) are used to delineate.
Under that standard, the article about me would be moved to "Bob T. Beers".
Actually, the policy you have sited includes as an example (way down, in the section on disambiguation) "William Henry (congressman)" as the preferred approach. Under that standard, the article is already correctly titled.Bob Beers 17:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
Agreed, Tiller54.Bob Beers 15:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
I looked at Harry Reid's article. In that case, his article is titled "Harry Reid" and the disambiguation page is titled "Harry Reid (Disambiguation)".
And this is cut and paste from Bob Beers (ice hockey)'s talk page...
.Was he really known by 'Bob Charles Beers', or is this just a way of disambiguating him from other Bob Beers's? LarRan (talk) 14:16, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
..This is just how we disambiguated him from other Bob Beers. In cases where we know for sure what their middle name is we tend to use their middle name instead of (ice hockey) but that is usually only done when there are two ice hockey people with the same name, for that reason I have moved it back. -Djsasso (talk) 03:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC) Under this standard, my page should be titled "Bob T. Beers" if it must be changed. There is only one Las Vegas City Councilman with my name.Bob Beers 17:05, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
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Yes, I am the fellow whom this article is about. I welcome objective clean-up, but have lately been having to clean-up "adjustments" to the article by partisan operatives who are far too clever to be obvious about their conflicts. Let me be very obvious about mine. Life would be easier if I didn't have a Wikipedia article about me which my partisan opponents can freely manipulate, and I am attempting to petition the admins to protect the article to prevent this. In the meantime, it is not my style to disguise my identity, or hire others to do it under a cloak.Bob Beers 00:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
I had moved this page to Robert T. Beers back in December to create a disambiguation page for Bob Beers. I was recently contacted by the subject of the article with a request to move it back to Bob Beers since he has never answered to the name Robert.. Since we need the DAB page, I can't move it to Bob Beers, and since there are two Bob Beers who are Nevada politicians, Bob Beers (politician) is out.. One suggestion was Bob Beers (CPA) since that was his career before politics and he is still a CPA in addition to being a politician. Others include Bob T. Beers, Bob Beers (Nevada Senator), although the latter could eventually require disambiguation.. are there any other suggestions/preferences? -- Versa geek 14:31, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Is this person really that notable to have an article? 71.108.130.79 ( talk) 09:00, 27 May 2013 (UTC) No. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs) 05:43, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
The reader may wish to jump to the next topic on this talk page, which summarizes this topic in 4,000 fewer words.
15 Aug 2014 - A minor "editing war" has arisen with a partisan editor creating increased ambiguity on this page. An entry has been created on the Biographies of Living Persons noticeboard [1] to petition administrators to either lock or remove altogether this Wikipedia entry about me. 21:11, 15 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
I can scan and post my high school and college diplomas, and my 1982 AP award, and will do so, but I think they all fail the exacting standards of Wikipedia. If the admins insist on having a page for a minor fellow like me, but refuse to recognize original source documents as "proof" of past accomplishments, where do we go from here?Bob Beers 04:54, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
16 Aug 2014 - To summarize:16 Aug 2014 - To summarize:
An entry has been created on the Biographies of Living Persons noticeboard [2] to petition administrators to either lock or remove altogether this Wikipedia entry about me. This occurred after user Tiller54 performed a series of edits on the article about me that I believed increased ambiguity and/or reduced objectivity of the article.
A few commenters expressed mild fright at the concept of a subject of an article participating so directly in Wikipedia, citing editing with a conflict of interest. I noted that I am transparent about it, and that most people who make non-technical changes to Wikipedia articles about living persons are those who support or oppose them, especially in politics. The problem is endemic in all political discussion, including encyclopedia entries.
The heart of the debate was expressed by Tiller54 here:
I corrected Tiller54's factual error, noting that the "other" Bob Beers is described in another Wikipedia article, thus the ambiguity does in fact exist.
I voiced my opinion that Tiller54's second paragraph seems to support a diversity of treatment of this matter, and certainly lacks consistency. Not all elected officials are tagged with "Politician" in addtion to their name as the title of their article, and requested of Tiller54 the Wikipedia article describing a preferred style for this disambiguity problem. It would seem particularly significant in my case, as my opponent (Harry Reid) does not carry any label on his Wikipedia article.
In the absense, I would contend that using a politician's current office is more specific than a generic label.
Tiller54 also asserted "Articles aren't moved around based on the person's job" so I requested the policy authority for his statement, suggesting it was merely his personal opinion.
Tiller54 responded:
User Cullen dropped by with some cleanup edits and agreed with Tiller54 that Wikipedia's policy requires an article about me, even if I find monitoring it for changes by opposing campaigns bothersome:
and
The Article Titles guidance that "Article titles should be recognizable, concise, natural, precise, and consistent."
I think Tiller54 and Cullen are suggesting that by "consistent" the policy demands that article titles never change. I disagree with this interpretation. That would be better described by selecting the word "constant" for the policy. I believe "consistent" means that it is the same style choices for every article, a measure by which Wikipedia is currently inconsistent.
The Article Title guidance above does not address the problem here, which involves sacrificing conciseness and precision (the default article title would be the person's name with no embellishment) on the altar of ambiguity (you have multiple people with the same name).
The most recent addition was from Tiller54 suggesting titling the article with "the date of birth, as is done when several people have the same name? We could move Bob L. Beers to "Bob Beers (Nevada politician, born 1951)" and this article to "Bob Beers (Nevada politician, born 1959)"?.
I would propose the Wikipedia community promulgate a new standard for titling articles about multiple people with the same name, whereby no job titles are included in article titles but middle initials (or names, if they are used) are used to delineate.
Under that standard, the article about me would be moved to "Bob T. Beers".
Actually, the policy you have sited includes as an example (way down, in the section on disambiguation) "William Henry (congressman)" as the preferred approach. Under that standard, the article is already correctly titled.Bob Beers 17:37, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
Agreed, Tiller54.Bob Beers 15:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
I looked at Harry Reid's article. In that case, his article is titled "Harry Reid" and the disambiguation page is titled "Harry Reid (Disambiguation)".
And this is cut and paste from Bob Beers (ice hockey)'s talk page...
.Was he really known by 'Bob Charles Beers', or is this just a way of disambiguating him from other Bob Beers's? LarRan (talk) 14:16, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
..This is just how we disambiguated him from other Bob Beers. In cases where we know for sure what their middle name is we tend to use their middle name instead of (ice hockey) but that is usually only done when there are two ice hockey people with the same name, for that reason I have moved it back. -Djsasso (talk) 03:23, 9 June 2009 (UTC) Under this standard, my page should be titled "Bob T. Beers" if it must be changed. There is only one Las Vegas City Councilman with my name.Bob Beers 17:05, 16 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbeers ( talk • contribs)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Bob Beers (politician, born 1959). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=22794When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:23, 4 November 2016 (UTC)