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Does Gundula Krause actually have a connection to Bluegrass music? And if so, is she well enough known to be mentioned? -- Jmabel | Talk 18:45, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
The claim that the popularity of Bluegrass is "limited to the Southeast United States and some college campuses" seems to me to be a gross exaggeration. Just by way of some examples to the contrary: the Idaho Bluegrass Association, and a bluegrass festival in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, and European World of Bluegrass. None of these are southeastern or collegiate. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:11, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
Someone continues to remove Jesse McReynolds from the "core" list. He has played music with his brother for over 50 years (his brother died in 2002), and has invented a new style of mandolin playing called crosspicking. This has become extremely popular with mandolin players around the country. He has been a member of the Grand Ole Opry for over 40 years. He not only had a TV show, "The Jim and Jesse Show" in the 1970s, but had recorded with Chuck Berry, the Doors, the Who, and John Prine. He is a legend of this music.
I moved Uncle Charlie Osborne to the "known for other stlyes" area, because, while his albums were bluegrass, he was known primarily as a mountain musician.
If someone wants to remove them again, I'd like to see a good reason first.
I agree with Jesse McReynolds merged with Jim and Jesse, but keep in mind they are major pioneers of this kind of music. As for Charlie Osborne, in his early days he was known as an excellent bluegras session fiddle player if you could convince him to do it. The Stanley Brothers had him on several live shows and uncredited on one or two records. (anon 15 July 2005)
I've missed Eric Weissberg and Steve Mandell on the list as "Duelling banjos" is one of the most famous Bluegrass tunes. Melly42 16:44, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
I just caught this: (removed The Earl Brothers, nonnotable, the line appears to have been added so they can list Wikipedia on their website)
I put them in to begin with, and I have nothing to do with the band. The Earl Brothers are a nationally touring act that has been featured at IBMA and write almost all of their own material. Their music is innovative while retaining a traditional feel, and many people in the bluegrass community consider them to be the most interesting original development within the genre in recent memory. On what basis are they "nonnotable"? I don't know how to sign this...C. Ruth
About a year ago I added names of three people who have contrubited to the music. these were Charlie Moore, Bill Napier and Curly Lambert-- all of whom have died. I am wondering if there is some kind of agenda here for they have been deleted!! Who ever did this it is shame on them. If some one is questioning my credentials here it is. I worked with and recorded with the above mentioned people back in the 1970's. You may check the OLD HOMESTEAD record lables for this info.Dan Proctor, bass player /tenor singer Charlie Moore and the Dixie Partners. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.77.2.92 ( talk • contribs) 29 August 2006.
I have to question whether some of the people removing things really know that much about the music. A few points: there is a "third generation" that is pretty distinct, one of the more popular bands is even called IIIrd Tyme Out in homage to this fact, as is mentioned in the entry. Also, for fans of traditional bluegrass, bands like the Earl Brothers and Open Road are rather important. Both are nationally touring acts who have multiple commercially available recordings and they have both been showcased at the IBMA. The point of talking about NEW bands is that some of the people around the periphery of the music probably will NOT have heard of them. That doesn't mean that they are irrelevant to an introduction, however, because a mention of new currents that those in the know are tuned in to is an appropriate part of such an article. Why are they being removed? I also have a hard time believing that anyone who knows about bluegrass would delete Charlie Moore. The entry is not supposed to be only about bands that only those with the most cursory knowledge of the music have heard of. Also, Chris Thile is more marginal than these names, despite his popularity, because he plays very little bluegrass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by C Ruth ( talk • contribs)
Choosing a name for the new band turned out to be one of the hardest parts.
"We really didn't want to put anybody's name out in front, because we all wanted to be equals in the partnership. We were looking at road signs, we were looking in dictionaries, we were doing anything we could to try and come up with a name for the band. I asked Ray, 'What do you think about the name 'Third Time Out'? He said, 'Where'd that come from?' I said, 'You know, this is your third professional bluegrass group to be associated with. It's my third professional bluegrass group, and it's also Mike Hartgrove's. So, this is kind of our third time to venture out in the bluegrass world, maybe the third time will be a charm. He said, 'Man, I like that,' so basically, that's where that came from."
The Roman numeral and substitution of 'y' for 'i' in 'Tyme' was, he admits, "just something to catch your eye, and make you look, and hopefully the name would stick in your mind." [1]
Thanks for your comments. I was probably wrong about the significance of "IIIrd Tyme Out." The second generation appellation covers a period of time beginning in around the late fifties. In other words, if we deny the existence of a third generation, the first generation is composed of bands that started in about a ten-year period, and the second generation is composed of bands that started in about a fifty-year period. This is unsatisfying, and furthermore the term "third generation" has general currency. However, I will search for documentation to clean up my act here and try to define a third generation. C Ruth 18:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, the IBMM has a "founders" category which lists bands that began up until 1954. That's the closest I could find to any sort of quasi-official categorization. At the very least, it seems clear to me that bands from the late '70s and '80s constitute a 3rd generation (such as the Johnson Mtn. Boys). I am mystified as to why the burden to provide evidence would be on someone claiming a 3rd generation, rather than someone claiming only two, since the taxonomy that includes a third is in common usage, and many claim a fourth is emerging. The defender of the two-generation taxonomy has to justify one generation lasting from 1945 to 1954, and another lasting from 1955 until 2006. This is extemely counter-intuitive, and therefore I submit that the evidential burden is on the people who say there are only two generations. C Ruth 01:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm saying that "third generation" is common parlance, not that it has a citable pedigree. Where is any source cited here for generations at all? Why are we even talking about a first generation, then? The fact is that these are loose terms in common usage, not a complete and unified taxonomy. Also, the "generation" label does NOT seem to be applied to when people are born, but when they began playing. The only official source I know of is the IBMM's list, which only deals with first generation. If you'd rather have "first generation," "second generation," and "more recent devlopments," go for it, I won't change it. But "more recent developments" would have to start some time around the late 70s. CRUTH (not logged in)
I removed Earl Brothers, Open Road, and Jumping Willies from "recent section". I'm sorry, but there's no reason to select these 3 groups as somehow more notable than a multitude of other great recent groups. Subjective content such as this is just begging for flame wars.-- Ninepoundjammer 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure where I've done any flaming. I gave an argument for the inclusion of those bands that you never responded to. Can you name any other notable new bluegrass bands that meet the criteria I presented--nationally touring, featured at IBMA, discussed by BG fans on a national level (see the Bgrass-l listserv for discussions of both bands)? Then list them, I have no idea why your doing so would be objectionable, since "recent developments" is always going to include bands that aren't famous outside of BG circles. Chris Thile, on the other hand, plays almost no bluegrass--I heard there were a couple of BG songs on his new album, but that's the exception, not the rule. Can someone explain to me why someone who is famous and peripheral to bluegrass is a more significant development in bluegrass than someone who is fairly well-known within bluegrass circles, according to verifiable criteria that I have proposed, and--most importantly--ACTUALLY PLAYS BLUEGRASS? Please, give me ONE ARGUMENT as to why my approach is wrong, and I'll stop adding the Earl Brothers and Open Road. Personally, I think if there were 7 or 8 more bands lited under "recent developments" it would be even better--but those are the only ones I can think of that are not basically local acts. C Ruth 21:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I did think of another band that meets those criteria, Cherryhomes. I'm not a huge fan, but they are actually way more popular than the two I originally added. I'm sure there's a few more that would be relevant, and I see no reason why they shouldn't be included. Currently the criterion seems to be mainstream fame, hence all the Alison Krauss/Thile stuff, but I think these bands are more relecant to bluegrass. C Ruth 21:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
"Bluegrass Now" can be found, logically enough, at www.bluegrassnow.com, as a google search would have revealed to the curious. Here's a reference to the "third generation" from the magazine of record (unfortunately, but that's another story) "Bluegrass Unlimited": "In the years since it briefly flourished, NGR has spawned and inspired not just one but two generations of young newgrass Turks (Nickel Creek being one of the most prominent of the third generation) who have continued to erase boundaries between bluegrass and other popular musical styles while sometimes giving hard-core bluegrassers a bad case of dyspepsia in the process!" ( http://www.bluegrassmusic.com/index.php?em192=88932_0__0_~0~443~751_-1_10_2006_0_0&issue=88796) References to the "first generation" are most common, indeed so common as to be not worth citing, if nobody insists. It stands to reason that if there is a "first generation," there has to be a second. It also stands to reason that if the first generation encompasses ten years, the second probably doesn't encompass 50 years, hence there is probably at least a third. "Third generation" is used in the bluegrass parlance and I have yet to hear a cogent argument against its employment. "Fourth generation " is certainly debatable. The point, however, is that these are terms of convenience--nobody is going to find platonic forms of the generations that end all debate forever. If the terms are somewhat fluid and arguable, it's still preferable to use "third generation" than to make the ridiculous claim that Red Allen and Chris Thile are of the same "generation" of bluegrass. C Ruth 17:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I DID find a scholarly taxonomy, although it seems a bit idiosyncratic. I'd still vote for decades, but check it out: http://www.fredbartenstein.com/bluegen.html C Ruth 14:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
As a point of reference, "The Shelby Disaster" remains at /info/en/?search=File:Dan_Hornsby_-_The_Shelby_Disaster.ogg , the link to it having now been removed from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.87.171 ( talk) 19:28, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't think the article's lead sufficiently summarizes what bluegrass music is. The second sentence touches on it, but the first sentence (50% of the lead) mostly relates bluegrass to other musics (English, Irish, Scottish, blues, jazz, etc.). Not sure yet how to fix it, as the question "What is bluegrass?" is a complex one to which the only answer I've found is the circular response "Bluegrass music is the stuff played by bluegrass bands." Cmadler 16:04, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
This instrumentation section was bothering me, and I wanted to document a few of the more significant actions I took. Mentioning Flatt and Scruggs seemed distracting and out of place, they get their due consideration elsewhere in the article. The "one suggested definition" seems pretty arbitrary and open to wide disagreement within the community -- again, more distracting than helpful and it seemed best just to eliminate that passage. Other than that, just some minor edits. Ninepoundjammer 10:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't know your format for editing, or suggestion for change.. but dern. This whole article needs re-authored by someone with more knowledge on the subject. You state bluegrass became popular after the 1940's.. Please tell me then what my ancestors were playing after dinner (from my family's oral history) 30 years prior to the civil war? When speaking on the historical side of a subject, it's not typical to date its origins to the era in which the subject's popularity rose. Don't take my statement the wrong way, I'm not saying the whole article is 100% incorrect.. I'm stating that Bluegrass music was around more than 100 years longer than you're giving it credit, and *yes* it was called Bluegrass back then, not "folk" music ,"old time" music, or "Appalachian Folk" music as your article would lead others to believe. I remember many times as a youngster hearing an ancient bluegrass tune about building the slave walls! I'm sorry, if I'm posting in the wrong format. Looking further down [now up] this "edit" page I have no idea what syntax you're using or I'd use it if I did. It's just.. somethings on here should really be tidy'd up a bit.
Thanks guys, this really is a good site with lots of good info. It's just in this case, it could be a lil better. (anon 23 Aug 2005)
I think I may have found my confusion. International Bluegrass music association mentions part of the origins being from Scotland in the 1600s. [4] However this kind of music was apparently called "mountain music" [5] or North Carolina Scots-Irish music. [6]. To be honest I think the North Carolina Scots-Irish traditional music and "mountain music" sound enough like bluegrass they're often now just called bluegrass. That's probably what I, and the complaining person, were thinking of. The article mentions many songs now counted as bluegrass are traditional Appalachian folk medlets. The main difference being bluegrass took these influences and added others to make it more populist.-- T. Anthony 03:33, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Having grown up in Central Virginia (b. 1957), and spent many idle childhood to teenage summers in the mountains of Southwest Virginia (which is the only creditation I have) I would say Bill Monroe:
1) Followed up in A.P. Carter's footsteps by bringing mountain music to the masses. Your own article on Mr. Carter talks about him recording staples like Keep on the Sunny Side before 1940, as well as Carter bringing a blues musician with him to help transcribe the music in the mid-30's. This sort of shows bluegrass' influence on Blues, IMHO.
2) Gave the music it's name.
3) Found Earl Scruggs. Again, an opinion, but I believe Scruggs had as much to do with Monroe's sucess as the other way around. The banjo was pretty much strummed (ala ragtime, also influenced by mountain music) before Scruggs. He brought it to the front, and gave the music another lead to alternate. This was always done with the mandolin and fiddle, until Scruggs.
Monroe was definitely important, and he may have formally named it, but he didn't invent it. And I think Bluegrass is the influential music on country, ragtime, and jazz, not the other way around. IF, the music was invented by Monroe in the 40's (66 years ago?) how does a guy 90 years old play it? And I saw guys in their late ages (60's 70's 80's...) playing at MANY, MANY "Fiddler's conventions", "Bluegrass festivals", whatever you want to call them, in the 70's.
How long have the Western North Carolinians been "clogging"? You need Bluegrass music to clog, or (as we called it) flatfoot to. These are the styles of dance. And, again, I've seen OLD guys flatfotting at Fiddlers conventions. What I mean is, a guy in 1975, a person that was, say 60 (being conservative), would have been 25, and just going to WW2 in 1940. Their music was Big Band. Now, he's flatfooting to bluegrass in the mid 70's. If the guy was 70, he was 35 when Monroe hit it. Will either of these guys ( at the ages of 25 and 35, in 1940) be learning new dances? Not likely. They learn to dance to it when they are 10. That means a guy 75 years old, flatfooting to bluegrass in 1975, learned how in 1910. And he learned it from his sister, or cousin, or maybe his mother and/or fatner to help socialize at gatherings. Which means it was taught by someone maybe 20, who learned it from... well you get the idea.
Mountain music has been around(in some form) just about as long as English, Irish and Scots have been in the US. It evolved and changed, slowly, because the players were mountain folk. It wasn't played in town much, it was always Old Timey. But it changed and evolved. A. P. Carter took it one step, Bill Monroe another. But the people have played it and danced to it for a long time.
I would say that modern day blue grass is probably somewhat different in some aspects than that of the Civil War era, but some sort of blue grass most definitely existed back then. If you listen to songs like What Wondrous Love, Old Dan Tucker, etc, you find a very banjo oriented country beat —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
68.58.250.209 (
talk)
06:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect, I am pretty sure that the music you are talking about is old time, and not bluegrass. Bluegrass is a descendant of old time, and shares many of the same songs and even many of the same musicians. It's slightly reductive to say this, but you could argue that it's the same music played with a different mentality and attitude. Bluegrass tends to be more focused on virtuosity and lead breaks, and old time is more focused on the song or the tune. Bluegrass is almost defined by Scruggs style up picked banjo playing, where old time is strongly (but not exclusively) associated with down picked clawhammer banjo playing. Bluegrass also tends to be flashier and faster. I'd say they are two facets of the same thing, so you are partially right in saying that. If you go check out a self defined "old time" session and a self defined "bluegrass" session, you'll see what I mean. Also, having both the "Oh Brother" and "Cold Mountain" soundtracks, I don't hear any bluegrass on them, but I do hear old time. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
209.6.31.27 (
talk)
15:15, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
I suggest that the "Notable artists" section be removed, possible replaced with a link to the International Bluegrass Music Hall of Honor; inductees have been deemed notable by IBMA and the bluegrass community (as opposed to our current Wikipedian generated POV list). Also, as this page has become fairly complete and stable, perhaps we should request a peer review? Cmadler 19:23, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
"Bluegrass bands have included instruments as diverse as drums, electric guitar, accordion, harmonica, mouth harp, and piano, though these are not widely accepted within the bluegrass community."
Have electric versions of other string instruments also been used? Is there any information on Bluegrass rock? 203.214.75.127.
What are you shooting for with "Bluegrass in Movies"? Excepting "That High Lonesome Sound" and "King of Bluegrass: The Life and Times of Jimmy Martin", it seems to be a list of commercial movies with examples of a few pieces of bluegrass music in the soundtrack. I would suggest a more comprehensive listing or a correction in your heading. For instance, "The Ralph Stanley Story" directed by Herb E. Smith in 2001 and "Earl Scruggs: His Family and Friends" directed by David Hoffman in 1971 as well as many other films aren't mentioned. -AFinney 71.139.38.142 04:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the "Associations" section (below) because it is getting long and unwieldy, and many of the listed associations are geographically limited and so of small interest to most people. Cmadler 12:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the "Publications with bluegrass content" section for several reasons:
Cmadler 11:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 03:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know of a source that talks about possible links between bluegrass and reggae. I have noticed that fast bluegrass always has a strong offbeat emphasis from the rhythm instruments while the bass hits the downbeat. That is very similar to reggae and current popular music in Africa. A good history of Bluegrass seems like a good place to start looking. There isn't anything mentioned in the article about this offbeat in bluegrass. I have seen lots of people in webpages talk about that. Need sources. It would be nice to describe why bluegrass is different than country. I've talked to foreigners who can't tell the difference between pop and country and its getting hard these days. -Crunchy Numbers 23:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
This article's GA status has been revoked because it fails criterion 2. b. of ' What is a Good Article?', which states;
LuciferMorgan 18:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I generally find the definitions of musical genres to be tedious and needlessly obtuse - they have a tendency to be described in terms of differences and similarities with other genres, creating one gigantic circular definition - and while I thought this page might at least tell me what certain bluegrass fans defined it as, I was not expecting to go away much enlightened. I was very pleasantly surprised. The tone of the article, the NPOV, and above all the explanations are spot-on. Thank you 129.215.141.101 09:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
as we're listing a few notable movies with bluegrass music in 'em, might we not also mention a couple of other easily-recognizable media "sources" for bluegrass? to NPR-listenin' liberal elitists like myself, the Car Talk radio show theme music (by Grisman; cannot recall the title at the moment) is pretty well-known, and there are a number of fairly popular TV shows using bluegrass and bluegrass-influenced music: South Park and Dirty Jobs come to mind, and of course, the venerable Beverly Hillbillies :) Johndoh75 19:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I added The Country Gentlemen to the 1st generation list. If anyone has not heard these guys I highly recommend that you treat yourself. : Albion moonlight 09:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Maybe this is a dumb question, but is it possible to source the claim that bluegrass music is a sub-genre of country music? My impression is that while music-industry marketing tends to treat it as such (when they treat it at all), many people involved with each genre (and perhaps especially bluegrass purists) see them as distinct types of music -- albeit with overlapping listener bases and a history of bidirectional influence -- rather than as umbrella category and sub-genre. Obviously, it depends a lot on one's definitions; "country," especially, is a difficult term to pin down. Still, if the opinions I've encountered are at all mainstream (and they may not be), another phrasing might be less controversial. E.g., "Commercially, it is often promoted as a sub-genre within the 'country' marketing niche." Other impressions? 67.127.52.215 ( talk) 01:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
This article should be semi-protected because it is heavily vandalized by IPs. -- Metal of Head 22:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I did not find the post on Bluegrass music as a genera to be very accurate and like many Wikipedia posts simply nonfactual. One simple example would be the statement that the music did not exist prior to WWII. This assertion is simply made in ignorance of what the music is. Really the genesis of Bluegrass was the adoption of reels, jigs, and other music to fiddle, guitar and banjo in rural Appalachia as the region was settled by the English, Scottish, and other islanders. Bill Monroe later fit the mandolin into a Bluegrass style which he made famous starting in the 40's. This music has a rich heritage and is truly and American gem. One suggestion I have for Wikipedia is that they get their article material from credible sources such as IBMA http://www.ibma.org/about.bluegrass/history/index.asp or Pinecone found at http://www.pinecone.org/ They would be a good starting point for information. Scott Jackson, Ph.D. 1/10/09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacksosh ( talk • contribs) 20:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Are Sara and Maybelle(?) Carter considered to be Bluegrass? I listen to a bluegrass station and they are always referring to them. But they are not listed in the article as founders/forerunners of Bluegrass. Setwisohi ( talk) 22:31, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Not a diehard bluegrass fan, but I found it odd that AKUS is mentioned only once in this article. Doesn't AKUS have the most grammies for bluegrass? Perhaps the folks who have worked hard maintaining this page would give this a second look? Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.2.85.35 ( talk) 03:06, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Looked at IBMA and she won female vocalist 4 out of the first 6 years they had the award (as listed). (I need to check out Rhonda Vincent). And Dan Tyminski won male vocalist three years in a row. One less than Del McCoury and tied with Ronnie Bowman. While I did see some others you mentioned alot, if you are going by awards won, then AKUS would still get a mention ahead of some others in the article. Also, every video performance I have seen of them, they are using "traditional" bluegrass instruments, so they should rate a mention in that section of the article as well. I'm just passing through, but I stand by my view that AKUS is under-represented in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.2.85.35 ( talk) 03:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Would like to receive input concerning who, other than the performers, profit from the use of these marketed names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pointofgrille ( talk • contribs) 15:49, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Bluegrass almost certainly has many roots predating world war 2. By that time in the American South and the mountains, similar if not the same music would have been heard. Maybe it wasn't a record selling industry until the second world war —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.250.209 ( talk) 02:18, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
It sounds like Spanish folk music from La Mancha, and guitars are from Spain, so perhaps Spanish origins should be mentioned. The banjo replacing the bandurria. American folk music shows stronger Spanish origins than British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.149.6.38 ( talk) 15:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Rolling Stone article: BLUEGRASS MUSIC'S CIVIL WAR: WHY NEW AND HERITAGE ACTS DON'T SEE STRING TO STRING--Ricky Skaggs, Jerry Douglas and others weigh in on the never-ending musical argument in the bluegrass community by Deborah Evans Price; October 2, 2014.--Artaxerxes 18:08, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
There is a category on this article for Christian music genre. However, I can not find anything saying that Christianity is significant aspect to bluegrass. Is it actually appropriate to be in this category? Munci ( talk) 14:20, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
The quote in note (1), says: "Musicologist Cecil Sharp collected hundreds of folk songs in the Appalachian region, and observed that the musical tradition of the people "seems to point to the North of England, or to the Lowlands, rather than the Highlands, of Scotland, as the country from which they originally migrated. For the Appalachian tunes...have far more affinity with the normal English folk-tune than with that of the Gaelic-speaking Highlander."
Please note the following:
84.23.155.84 (
talk)
19:01, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Bluegrass music is a form of American roots music, and is a sub-genre of country music.
I believe this is backward. From what I've read, what we refer to as "country music" did not originate from Appalachia, which is where bluegrass' immediate antecedents originate. Country music is a commercial sound that drew from elements of bluegrass, as well as old-time southern gospels. Bluegrass has distinct elements of British, Irish and Scottish jigs and reels, as well as some aspects of the blues. In the USA, jigs and reels as a basis for rural music forms are relatively unique to Appalachia, which means mainstream country is/was not the antecedent of bluegrass.
Unless someone strenuously objects, I am removing the sub-genre reference.
Bigdumbdinosaur ( talk) 18:48, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Bluegrass IS a sub-genre of country music.
Except that there really is nothing to support that statement. What we call bluegrass was evolving well before the so-called country and western music industry even began (that is to say, prior to the development of the phonograph, which was late in the 19th century). The mountain folks back then who performed what we call bluegrass were relatively isolated from the more urbanized C&W scene (e.g., the Grand Old Opry milieu) and had developed a musical style that embodies features not found in other forms. All of the elements that gelled into bluegrass were already being performed by the time Bill Monroe was born.
...there were a lot of "sounds" out there that by the 1950s/60s were recognized as "country and western".
Just because someone thinks ("recognizes") a particular form of music is XYZ doesn't make it so. I believe the reason bluegrass tends to get the "country sub-genre" label is because those who don't really know the music and its history assume that all musicians with "southern sounding" voices that play fiddles and guitars are all the same. While so-called progressive bluegrass does have a C&W feel to it, that's only because commercial interests made it that way. Real bluegrassers perform for the art, not the big recording contract.
As a bassist who has played bluegrass for quite some time (and without benefit of a southern accent or even a Stetson), I can assure you that traditional bluegrass (the only real bluegrass—all else is a corruption of the original form) has a much different sound, style and feel than a typical commercial country ditty. Someone like Taylor Swift would be perilously close to being booed off the stage at some bluegrass events I've attended.
Bigdumbdinosaur ( talk) 04:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
BDD recently added a cited statement that " The Oxford Companion to Music suggests an etymology related to the " Blue Mountains [ sic] of Virginia."" I don't doubt that the OCM may suggest this, but I also don't doubt that they are wrong to do so. Rosenberg is the authority on bluegrass, particularly the early years, and his account -- reinforced by the Ralph Stanley interview -- is far more reliable than an entry in a broad-based music encyclopedia. I'm not even sure the OCM assertion merits mention in this article; it's a tertiary source that's directly contradicted by highly reliable primary (Stanley interview) and secondary (Rosenberg) sources. cmadler ( talk) 14:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I capitalized most instances of "Bluegrass". If this is wrong, please correct me Lady Mondegreen ( talk) 03:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
If there is anyone who is interested in being involved in a Wikiproject about bluegrass music, please leave me a message at this page: User talk:Anne Delong/Bluegrass Topics, or check out what I've done so far at: User:Anne Delong/Bluegrass Topics. There are about 500 pages linked to the article " Bluegrass music" and many could use a little sprucing up. — Anne Delong ( talk) 01:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
This proposed sub-genre is confusingly named given the existence of Newgrass Revival and of newgrass generally referring to the progressive bluegrass sub-genre. Perhaps creating a section that discusses the influence of bluegrass on other genres or incorporation of aspects of bluegrass in other genres would be appropriate? Uncas80 ( talk) 22:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Maybe someone with more knowledge of the genre could add some details here. Currently the section seems to only list musicians that would fit in these categories rather than explain what is the difference between the generations. - Xcuref1endx ( talk) 18:29, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Bluegrass music/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
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==Initial rating==
As Bluegrass music is named for the Bluegrass state, it merits the Top importance designation. The article was a good article until recently, when it was delisted for not using inline citations. As such, I have rated it A-class, and hope someone will clean up the references soon so it can be renominated. Acdixon 16:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
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Last edited at 22:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 09:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Today, February 11, 2017, I added my first addition to Wikipedia. I added two sources to this page to cite a few un-cited sentences on the page. I hope my contributed was helpful.
Chandlerlemoine ( talk) 15:30, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
The opening paragraph needs some major work. Some things seem to be unnecessarily restated, and parts of sentences seem to be missing altogether. The more I looked at it I realized that I didn't understand the original intention and therefore didn't think I was the one to fix it. PurpleChez ( talk) 21:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Should there be a section on bluegrass music outside the US? Bluegrass: A History by Neil Rosenberg mentions bands exist in Japan, New Zealand, Australia, and Europe. Bluegrass 45 for example is a Japanese bluegrass band. Mckliz ( talk) 02:51, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
I am doing this for a class assignment. In general, I think this article gets a lot of good information laid out, and that it could be updated and improved in terms of organization, discussion of history, and current events and trends. (See User:151.141.131.51/Evaluate an Article.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bidgoodl ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
A lot of info was deleted here because it was unsourced, but both Newgrass and Progressive bluegrass redirect to these sections. If anyone has sources on these subgenres it would be good to add a section on them, I was redirected here from Newgrass but this article doesn't contain info on it. -- 130.208.182.75 ( talk) 14:17, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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Does Gundula Krause actually have a connection to Bluegrass music? And if so, is she well enough known to be mentioned? -- Jmabel | Talk 18:45, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
The claim that the popularity of Bluegrass is "limited to the Southeast United States and some college campuses" seems to me to be a gross exaggeration. Just by way of some examples to the contrary: the Idaho Bluegrass Association, and a bluegrass festival in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, and European World of Bluegrass. None of these are southeastern or collegiate. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:11, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
Someone continues to remove Jesse McReynolds from the "core" list. He has played music with his brother for over 50 years (his brother died in 2002), and has invented a new style of mandolin playing called crosspicking. This has become extremely popular with mandolin players around the country. He has been a member of the Grand Ole Opry for over 40 years. He not only had a TV show, "The Jim and Jesse Show" in the 1970s, but had recorded with Chuck Berry, the Doors, the Who, and John Prine. He is a legend of this music.
I moved Uncle Charlie Osborne to the "known for other stlyes" area, because, while his albums were bluegrass, he was known primarily as a mountain musician.
If someone wants to remove them again, I'd like to see a good reason first.
I agree with Jesse McReynolds merged with Jim and Jesse, but keep in mind they are major pioneers of this kind of music. As for Charlie Osborne, in his early days he was known as an excellent bluegras session fiddle player if you could convince him to do it. The Stanley Brothers had him on several live shows and uncredited on one or two records. (anon 15 July 2005)
I've missed Eric Weissberg and Steve Mandell on the list as "Duelling banjos" is one of the most famous Bluegrass tunes. Melly42 16:44, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
I just caught this: (removed The Earl Brothers, nonnotable, the line appears to have been added so they can list Wikipedia on their website)
I put them in to begin with, and I have nothing to do with the band. The Earl Brothers are a nationally touring act that has been featured at IBMA and write almost all of their own material. Their music is innovative while retaining a traditional feel, and many people in the bluegrass community consider them to be the most interesting original development within the genre in recent memory. On what basis are they "nonnotable"? I don't know how to sign this...C. Ruth
About a year ago I added names of three people who have contrubited to the music. these were Charlie Moore, Bill Napier and Curly Lambert-- all of whom have died. I am wondering if there is some kind of agenda here for they have been deleted!! Who ever did this it is shame on them. If some one is questioning my credentials here it is. I worked with and recorded with the above mentioned people back in the 1970's. You may check the OLD HOMESTEAD record lables for this info.Dan Proctor, bass player /tenor singer Charlie Moore and the Dixie Partners. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.77.2.92 ( talk • contribs) 29 August 2006.
I have to question whether some of the people removing things really know that much about the music. A few points: there is a "third generation" that is pretty distinct, one of the more popular bands is even called IIIrd Tyme Out in homage to this fact, as is mentioned in the entry. Also, for fans of traditional bluegrass, bands like the Earl Brothers and Open Road are rather important. Both are nationally touring acts who have multiple commercially available recordings and they have both been showcased at the IBMA. The point of talking about NEW bands is that some of the people around the periphery of the music probably will NOT have heard of them. That doesn't mean that they are irrelevant to an introduction, however, because a mention of new currents that those in the know are tuned in to is an appropriate part of such an article. Why are they being removed? I also have a hard time believing that anyone who knows about bluegrass would delete Charlie Moore. The entry is not supposed to be only about bands that only those with the most cursory knowledge of the music have heard of. Also, Chris Thile is more marginal than these names, despite his popularity, because he plays very little bluegrass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by C Ruth ( talk • contribs)
Choosing a name for the new band turned out to be one of the hardest parts.
"We really didn't want to put anybody's name out in front, because we all wanted to be equals in the partnership. We were looking at road signs, we were looking in dictionaries, we were doing anything we could to try and come up with a name for the band. I asked Ray, 'What do you think about the name 'Third Time Out'? He said, 'Where'd that come from?' I said, 'You know, this is your third professional bluegrass group to be associated with. It's my third professional bluegrass group, and it's also Mike Hartgrove's. So, this is kind of our third time to venture out in the bluegrass world, maybe the third time will be a charm. He said, 'Man, I like that,' so basically, that's where that came from."
The Roman numeral and substitution of 'y' for 'i' in 'Tyme' was, he admits, "just something to catch your eye, and make you look, and hopefully the name would stick in your mind." [1]
Thanks for your comments. I was probably wrong about the significance of "IIIrd Tyme Out." The second generation appellation covers a period of time beginning in around the late fifties. In other words, if we deny the existence of a third generation, the first generation is composed of bands that started in about a ten-year period, and the second generation is composed of bands that started in about a fifty-year period. This is unsatisfying, and furthermore the term "third generation" has general currency. However, I will search for documentation to clean up my act here and try to define a third generation. C Ruth 18:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, the IBMM has a "founders" category which lists bands that began up until 1954. That's the closest I could find to any sort of quasi-official categorization. At the very least, it seems clear to me that bands from the late '70s and '80s constitute a 3rd generation (such as the Johnson Mtn. Boys). I am mystified as to why the burden to provide evidence would be on someone claiming a 3rd generation, rather than someone claiming only two, since the taxonomy that includes a third is in common usage, and many claim a fourth is emerging. The defender of the two-generation taxonomy has to justify one generation lasting from 1945 to 1954, and another lasting from 1955 until 2006. This is extemely counter-intuitive, and therefore I submit that the evidential burden is on the people who say there are only two generations. C Ruth 01:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm saying that "third generation" is common parlance, not that it has a citable pedigree. Where is any source cited here for generations at all? Why are we even talking about a first generation, then? The fact is that these are loose terms in common usage, not a complete and unified taxonomy. Also, the "generation" label does NOT seem to be applied to when people are born, but when they began playing. The only official source I know of is the IBMM's list, which only deals with first generation. If you'd rather have "first generation," "second generation," and "more recent devlopments," go for it, I won't change it. But "more recent developments" would have to start some time around the late 70s. CRUTH (not logged in)
I removed Earl Brothers, Open Road, and Jumping Willies from "recent section". I'm sorry, but there's no reason to select these 3 groups as somehow more notable than a multitude of other great recent groups. Subjective content such as this is just begging for flame wars.-- Ninepoundjammer 04:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure where I've done any flaming. I gave an argument for the inclusion of those bands that you never responded to. Can you name any other notable new bluegrass bands that meet the criteria I presented--nationally touring, featured at IBMA, discussed by BG fans on a national level (see the Bgrass-l listserv for discussions of both bands)? Then list them, I have no idea why your doing so would be objectionable, since "recent developments" is always going to include bands that aren't famous outside of BG circles. Chris Thile, on the other hand, plays almost no bluegrass--I heard there were a couple of BG songs on his new album, but that's the exception, not the rule. Can someone explain to me why someone who is famous and peripheral to bluegrass is a more significant development in bluegrass than someone who is fairly well-known within bluegrass circles, according to verifiable criteria that I have proposed, and--most importantly--ACTUALLY PLAYS BLUEGRASS? Please, give me ONE ARGUMENT as to why my approach is wrong, and I'll stop adding the Earl Brothers and Open Road. Personally, I think if there were 7 or 8 more bands lited under "recent developments" it would be even better--but those are the only ones I can think of that are not basically local acts. C Ruth 21:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I did think of another band that meets those criteria, Cherryhomes. I'm not a huge fan, but they are actually way more popular than the two I originally added. I'm sure there's a few more that would be relevant, and I see no reason why they shouldn't be included. Currently the criterion seems to be mainstream fame, hence all the Alison Krauss/Thile stuff, but I think these bands are more relecant to bluegrass. C Ruth 21:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
"Bluegrass Now" can be found, logically enough, at www.bluegrassnow.com, as a google search would have revealed to the curious. Here's a reference to the "third generation" from the magazine of record (unfortunately, but that's another story) "Bluegrass Unlimited": "In the years since it briefly flourished, NGR has spawned and inspired not just one but two generations of young newgrass Turks (Nickel Creek being one of the most prominent of the third generation) who have continued to erase boundaries between bluegrass and other popular musical styles while sometimes giving hard-core bluegrassers a bad case of dyspepsia in the process!" ( http://www.bluegrassmusic.com/index.php?em192=88932_0__0_~0~443~751_-1_10_2006_0_0&issue=88796) References to the "first generation" are most common, indeed so common as to be not worth citing, if nobody insists. It stands to reason that if there is a "first generation," there has to be a second. It also stands to reason that if the first generation encompasses ten years, the second probably doesn't encompass 50 years, hence there is probably at least a third. "Third generation" is used in the bluegrass parlance and I have yet to hear a cogent argument against its employment. "Fourth generation " is certainly debatable. The point, however, is that these are terms of convenience--nobody is going to find platonic forms of the generations that end all debate forever. If the terms are somewhat fluid and arguable, it's still preferable to use "third generation" than to make the ridiculous claim that Red Allen and Chris Thile are of the same "generation" of bluegrass. C Ruth 17:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I DID find a scholarly taxonomy, although it seems a bit idiosyncratic. I'd still vote for decades, but check it out: http://www.fredbartenstein.com/bluegen.html C Ruth 14:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
As a point of reference, "The Shelby Disaster" remains at /info/en/?search=File:Dan_Hornsby_-_The_Shelby_Disaster.ogg , the link to it having now been removed from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.87.171 ( talk) 19:28, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I don't think the article's lead sufficiently summarizes what bluegrass music is. The second sentence touches on it, but the first sentence (50% of the lead) mostly relates bluegrass to other musics (English, Irish, Scottish, blues, jazz, etc.). Not sure yet how to fix it, as the question "What is bluegrass?" is a complex one to which the only answer I've found is the circular response "Bluegrass music is the stuff played by bluegrass bands." Cmadler 16:04, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
This instrumentation section was bothering me, and I wanted to document a few of the more significant actions I took. Mentioning Flatt and Scruggs seemed distracting and out of place, they get their due consideration elsewhere in the article. The "one suggested definition" seems pretty arbitrary and open to wide disagreement within the community -- again, more distracting than helpful and it seemed best just to eliminate that passage. Other than that, just some minor edits. Ninepoundjammer 10:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't know your format for editing, or suggestion for change.. but dern. This whole article needs re-authored by someone with more knowledge on the subject. You state bluegrass became popular after the 1940's.. Please tell me then what my ancestors were playing after dinner (from my family's oral history) 30 years prior to the civil war? When speaking on the historical side of a subject, it's not typical to date its origins to the era in which the subject's popularity rose. Don't take my statement the wrong way, I'm not saying the whole article is 100% incorrect.. I'm stating that Bluegrass music was around more than 100 years longer than you're giving it credit, and *yes* it was called Bluegrass back then, not "folk" music ,"old time" music, or "Appalachian Folk" music as your article would lead others to believe. I remember many times as a youngster hearing an ancient bluegrass tune about building the slave walls! I'm sorry, if I'm posting in the wrong format. Looking further down [now up] this "edit" page I have no idea what syntax you're using or I'd use it if I did. It's just.. somethings on here should really be tidy'd up a bit.
Thanks guys, this really is a good site with lots of good info. It's just in this case, it could be a lil better. (anon 23 Aug 2005)
I think I may have found my confusion. International Bluegrass music association mentions part of the origins being from Scotland in the 1600s. [4] However this kind of music was apparently called "mountain music" [5] or North Carolina Scots-Irish music. [6]. To be honest I think the North Carolina Scots-Irish traditional music and "mountain music" sound enough like bluegrass they're often now just called bluegrass. That's probably what I, and the complaining person, were thinking of. The article mentions many songs now counted as bluegrass are traditional Appalachian folk medlets. The main difference being bluegrass took these influences and added others to make it more populist.-- T. Anthony 03:33, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Having grown up in Central Virginia (b. 1957), and spent many idle childhood to teenage summers in the mountains of Southwest Virginia (which is the only creditation I have) I would say Bill Monroe:
1) Followed up in A.P. Carter's footsteps by bringing mountain music to the masses. Your own article on Mr. Carter talks about him recording staples like Keep on the Sunny Side before 1940, as well as Carter bringing a blues musician with him to help transcribe the music in the mid-30's. This sort of shows bluegrass' influence on Blues, IMHO.
2) Gave the music it's name.
3) Found Earl Scruggs. Again, an opinion, but I believe Scruggs had as much to do with Monroe's sucess as the other way around. The banjo was pretty much strummed (ala ragtime, also influenced by mountain music) before Scruggs. He brought it to the front, and gave the music another lead to alternate. This was always done with the mandolin and fiddle, until Scruggs.
Monroe was definitely important, and he may have formally named it, but he didn't invent it. And I think Bluegrass is the influential music on country, ragtime, and jazz, not the other way around. IF, the music was invented by Monroe in the 40's (66 years ago?) how does a guy 90 years old play it? And I saw guys in their late ages (60's 70's 80's...) playing at MANY, MANY "Fiddler's conventions", "Bluegrass festivals", whatever you want to call them, in the 70's.
How long have the Western North Carolinians been "clogging"? You need Bluegrass music to clog, or (as we called it) flatfoot to. These are the styles of dance. And, again, I've seen OLD guys flatfotting at Fiddlers conventions. What I mean is, a guy in 1975, a person that was, say 60 (being conservative), would have been 25, and just going to WW2 in 1940. Their music was Big Band. Now, he's flatfooting to bluegrass in the mid 70's. If the guy was 70, he was 35 when Monroe hit it. Will either of these guys ( at the ages of 25 and 35, in 1940) be learning new dances? Not likely. They learn to dance to it when they are 10. That means a guy 75 years old, flatfooting to bluegrass in 1975, learned how in 1910. And he learned it from his sister, or cousin, or maybe his mother and/or fatner to help socialize at gatherings. Which means it was taught by someone maybe 20, who learned it from... well you get the idea.
Mountain music has been around(in some form) just about as long as English, Irish and Scots have been in the US. It evolved and changed, slowly, because the players were mountain folk. It wasn't played in town much, it was always Old Timey. But it changed and evolved. A. P. Carter took it one step, Bill Monroe another. But the people have played it and danced to it for a long time.
I would say that modern day blue grass is probably somewhat different in some aspects than that of the Civil War era, but some sort of blue grass most definitely existed back then. If you listen to songs like What Wondrous Love, Old Dan Tucker, etc, you find a very banjo oriented country beat —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
68.58.250.209 (
talk)
06:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect, I am pretty sure that the music you are talking about is old time, and not bluegrass. Bluegrass is a descendant of old time, and shares many of the same songs and even many of the same musicians. It's slightly reductive to say this, but you could argue that it's the same music played with a different mentality and attitude. Bluegrass tends to be more focused on virtuosity and lead breaks, and old time is more focused on the song or the tune. Bluegrass is almost defined by Scruggs style up picked banjo playing, where old time is strongly (but not exclusively) associated with down picked clawhammer banjo playing. Bluegrass also tends to be flashier and faster. I'd say they are two facets of the same thing, so you are partially right in saying that. If you go check out a self defined "old time" session and a self defined "bluegrass" session, you'll see what I mean. Also, having both the "Oh Brother" and "Cold Mountain" soundtracks, I don't hear any bluegrass on them, but I do hear old time. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
209.6.31.27 (
talk)
15:15, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
I suggest that the "Notable artists" section be removed, possible replaced with a link to the International Bluegrass Music Hall of Honor; inductees have been deemed notable by IBMA and the bluegrass community (as opposed to our current Wikipedian generated POV list). Also, as this page has become fairly complete and stable, perhaps we should request a peer review? Cmadler 19:23, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
"Bluegrass bands have included instruments as diverse as drums, electric guitar, accordion, harmonica, mouth harp, and piano, though these are not widely accepted within the bluegrass community."
Have electric versions of other string instruments also been used? Is there any information on Bluegrass rock? 203.214.75.127.
What are you shooting for with "Bluegrass in Movies"? Excepting "That High Lonesome Sound" and "King of Bluegrass: The Life and Times of Jimmy Martin", it seems to be a list of commercial movies with examples of a few pieces of bluegrass music in the soundtrack. I would suggest a more comprehensive listing or a correction in your heading. For instance, "The Ralph Stanley Story" directed by Herb E. Smith in 2001 and "Earl Scruggs: His Family and Friends" directed by David Hoffman in 1971 as well as many other films aren't mentioned. -AFinney 71.139.38.142 04:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the "Associations" section (below) because it is getting long and unwieldy, and many of the listed associations are geographically limited and so of small interest to most people. Cmadler 12:18, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the "Publications with bluegrass content" section for several reasons:
Cmadler 11:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 03:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know of a source that talks about possible links between bluegrass and reggae. I have noticed that fast bluegrass always has a strong offbeat emphasis from the rhythm instruments while the bass hits the downbeat. That is very similar to reggae and current popular music in Africa. A good history of Bluegrass seems like a good place to start looking. There isn't anything mentioned in the article about this offbeat in bluegrass. I have seen lots of people in webpages talk about that. Need sources. It would be nice to describe why bluegrass is different than country. I've talked to foreigners who can't tell the difference between pop and country and its getting hard these days. -Crunchy Numbers 23:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
This article's GA status has been revoked because it fails criterion 2. b. of ' What is a Good Article?', which states;
LuciferMorgan 18:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I generally find the definitions of musical genres to be tedious and needlessly obtuse - they have a tendency to be described in terms of differences and similarities with other genres, creating one gigantic circular definition - and while I thought this page might at least tell me what certain bluegrass fans defined it as, I was not expecting to go away much enlightened. I was very pleasantly surprised. The tone of the article, the NPOV, and above all the explanations are spot-on. Thank you 129.215.141.101 09:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
as we're listing a few notable movies with bluegrass music in 'em, might we not also mention a couple of other easily-recognizable media "sources" for bluegrass? to NPR-listenin' liberal elitists like myself, the Car Talk radio show theme music (by Grisman; cannot recall the title at the moment) is pretty well-known, and there are a number of fairly popular TV shows using bluegrass and bluegrass-influenced music: South Park and Dirty Jobs come to mind, and of course, the venerable Beverly Hillbillies :) Johndoh75 19:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I added The Country Gentlemen to the 1st generation list. If anyone has not heard these guys I highly recommend that you treat yourself. : Albion moonlight 09:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Maybe this is a dumb question, but is it possible to source the claim that bluegrass music is a sub-genre of country music? My impression is that while music-industry marketing tends to treat it as such (when they treat it at all), many people involved with each genre (and perhaps especially bluegrass purists) see them as distinct types of music -- albeit with overlapping listener bases and a history of bidirectional influence -- rather than as umbrella category and sub-genre. Obviously, it depends a lot on one's definitions; "country," especially, is a difficult term to pin down. Still, if the opinions I've encountered are at all mainstream (and they may not be), another phrasing might be less controversial. E.g., "Commercially, it is often promoted as a sub-genre within the 'country' marketing niche." Other impressions? 67.127.52.215 ( talk) 01:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
This article should be semi-protected because it is heavily vandalized by IPs. -- Metal of Head 22:20, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I did not find the post on Bluegrass music as a genera to be very accurate and like many Wikipedia posts simply nonfactual. One simple example would be the statement that the music did not exist prior to WWII. This assertion is simply made in ignorance of what the music is. Really the genesis of Bluegrass was the adoption of reels, jigs, and other music to fiddle, guitar and banjo in rural Appalachia as the region was settled by the English, Scottish, and other islanders. Bill Monroe later fit the mandolin into a Bluegrass style which he made famous starting in the 40's. This music has a rich heritage and is truly and American gem. One suggestion I have for Wikipedia is that they get their article material from credible sources such as IBMA http://www.ibma.org/about.bluegrass/history/index.asp or Pinecone found at http://www.pinecone.org/ They would be a good starting point for information. Scott Jackson, Ph.D. 1/10/09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacksosh ( talk • contribs) 20:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Are Sara and Maybelle(?) Carter considered to be Bluegrass? I listen to a bluegrass station and they are always referring to them. But they are not listed in the article as founders/forerunners of Bluegrass. Setwisohi ( talk) 22:31, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Not a diehard bluegrass fan, but I found it odd that AKUS is mentioned only once in this article. Doesn't AKUS have the most grammies for bluegrass? Perhaps the folks who have worked hard maintaining this page would give this a second look? Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.2.85.35 ( talk) 03:06, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Looked at IBMA and she won female vocalist 4 out of the first 6 years they had the award (as listed). (I need to check out Rhonda Vincent). And Dan Tyminski won male vocalist three years in a row. One less than Del McCoury and tied with Ronnie Bowman. While I did see some others you mentioned alot, if you are going by awards won, then AKUS would still get a mention ahead of some others in the article. Also, every video performance I have seen of them, they are using "traditional" bluegrass instruments, so they should rate a mention in that section of the article as well. I'm just passing through, but I stand by my view that AKUS is under-represented in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.2.85.35 ( talk) 03:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Would like to receive input concerning who, other than the performers, profit from the use of these marketed names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pointofgrille ( talk • contribs) 15:49, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Bluegrass almost certainly has many roots predating world war 2. By that time in the American South and the mountains, similar if not the same music would have been heard. Maybe it wasn't a record selling industry until the second world war —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.250.209 ( talk) 02:18, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
It sounds like Spanish folk music from La Mancha, and guitars are from Spain, so perhaps Spanish origins should be mentioned. The banjo replacing the bandurria. American folk music shows stronger Spanish origins than British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.149.6.38 ( talk) 15:46, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Rolling Stone article: BLUEGRASS MUSIC'S CIVIL WAR: WHY NEW AND HERITAGE ACTS DON'T SEE STRING TO STRING--Ricky Skaggs, Jerry Douglas and others weigh in on the never-ending musical argument in the bluegrass community by Deborah Evans Price; October 2, 2014.--Artaxerxes 18:08, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
There is a category on this article for Christian music genre. However, I can not find anything saying that Christianity is significant aspect to bluegrass. Is it actually appropriate to be in this category? Munci ( talk) 14:20, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
The quote in note (1), says: "Musicologist Cecil Sharp collected hundreds of folk songs in the Appalachian region, and observed that the musical tradition of the people "seems to point to the North of England, or to the Lowlands, rather than the Highlands, of Scotland, as the country from which they originally migrated. For the Appalachian tunes...have far more affinity with the normal English folk-tune than with that of the Gaelic-speaking Highlander."
Please note the following:
84.23.155.84 (
talk)
19:01, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Bluegrass music is a form of American roots music, and is a sub-genre of country music.
I believe this is backward. From what I've read, what we refer to as "country music" did not originate from Appalachia, which is where bluegrass' immediate antecedents originate. Country music is a commercial sound that drew from elements of bluegrass, as well as old-time southern gospels. Bluegrass has distinct elements of British, Irish and Scottish jigs and reels, as well as some aspects of the blues. In the USA, jigs and reels as a basis for rural music forms are relatively unique to Appalachia, which means mainstream country is/was not the antecedent of bluegrass.
Unless someone strenuously objects, I am removing the sub-genre reference.
Bigdumbdinosaur ( talk) 18:48, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Bluegrass IS a sub-genre of country music.
Except that there really is nothing to support that statement. What we call bluegrass was evolving well before the so-called country and western music industry even began (that is to say, prior to the development of the phonograph, which was late in the 19th century). The mountain folks back then who performed what we call bluegrass were relatively isolated from the more urbanized C&W scene (e.g., the Grand Old Opry milieu) and had developed a musical style that embodies features not found in other forms. All of the elements that gelled into bluegrass were already being performed by the time Bill Monroe was born.
...there were a lot of "sounds" out there that by the 1950s/60s were recognized as "country and western".
Just because someone thinks ("recognizes") a particular form of music is XYZ doesn't make it so. I believe the reason bluegrass tends to get the "country sub-genre" label is because those who don't really know the music and its history assume that all musicians with "southern sounding" voices that play fiddles and guitars are all the same. While so-called progressive bluegrass does have a C&W feel to it, that's only because commercial interests made it that way. Real bluegrassers perform for the art, not the big recording contract.
As a bassist who has played bluegrass for quite some time (and without benefit of a southern accent or even a Stetson), I can assure you that traditional bluegrass (the only real bluegrass—all else is a corruption of the original form) has a much different sound, style and feel than a typical commercial country ditty. Someone like Taylor Swift would be perilously close to being booed off the stage at some bluegrass events I've attended.
Bigdumbdinosaur ( talk) 04:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
BDD recently added a cited statement that " The Oxford Companion to Music suggests an etymology related to the " Blue Mountains [ sic] of Virginia."" I don't doubt that the OCM may suggest this, but I also don't doubt that they are wrong to do so. Rosenberg is the authority on bluegrass, particularly the early years, and his account -- reinforced by the Ralph Stanley interview -- is far more reliable than an entry in a broad-based music encyclopedia. I'm not even sure the OCM assertion merits mention in this article; it's a tertiary source that's directly contradicted by highly reliable primary (Stanley interview) and secondary (Rosenberg) sources. cmadler ( talk) 14:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I capitalized most instances of "Bluegrass". If this is wrong, please correct me Lady Mondegreen ( talk) 03:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
If there is anyone who is interested in being involved in a Wikiproject about bluegrass music, please leave me a message at this page: User talk:Anne Delong/Bluegrass Topics, or check out what I've done so far at: User:Anne Delong/Bluegrass Topics. There are about 500 pages linked to the article " Bluegrass music" and many could use a little sprucing up. — Anne Delong ( talk) 01:54, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
This proposed sub-genre is confusingly named given the existence of Newgrass Revival and of newgrass generally referring to the progressive bluegrass sub-genre. Perhaps creating a section that discusses the influence of bluegrass on other genres or incorporation of aspects of bluegrass in other genres would be appropriate? Uncas80 ( talk) 22:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Maybe someone with more knowledge of the genre could add some details here. Currently the section seems to only list musicians that would fit in these categories rather than explain what is the difference between the generations. - Xcuref1endx ( talk) 18:29, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Bluegrass music/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
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==Initial rating==
As Bluegrass music is named for the Bluegrass state, it merits the Top importance designation. The article was a good article until recently, when it was delisted for not using inline citations. As such, I have rated it A-class, and hope someone will clean up the references soon so it can be renominated. Acdixon 16:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
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Last edited at 22:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 09:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Today, February 11, 2017, I added my first addition to Wikipedia. I added two sources to this page to cite a few un-cited sentences on the page. I hope my contributed was helpful.
Chandlerlemoine ( talk) 15:30, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
The opening paragraph needs some major work. Some things seem to be unnecessarily restated, and parts of sentences seem to be missing altogether. The more I looked at it I realized that I didn't understand the original intention and therefore didn't think I was the one to fix it. PurpleChez ( talk) 21:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Should there be a section on bluegrass music outside the US? Bluegrass: A History by Neil Rosenberg mentions bands exist in Japan, New Zealand, Australia, and Europe. Bluegrass 45 for example is a Japanese bluegrass band. Mckliz ( talk) 02:51, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
I am doing this for a class assignment. In general, I think this article gets a lot of good information laid out, and that it could be updated and improved in terms of organization, discussion of history, and current events and trends. (See User:151.141.131.51/Evaluate an Article.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bidgoodl ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
A lot of info was deleted here because it was unsourced, but both Newgrass and Progressive bluegrass redirect to these sections. If anyone has sources on these subgenres it would be good to add a section on them, I was redirected here from Newgrass but this article doesn't contain info on it. -- 130.208.182.75 ( talk) 14:17, 21 September 2019 (UTC)