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The information from Full moon#The Blue Moon should probably merged into this article. BlankVerse ∅ 16:26, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The term "Once in a Blue Moon" has nothing to do with the cyclical appearance of a celestial body that we call the moon. It is actually associated with an early Dutch trading ship known as the "Blue Moon." The Blue Moon was a world travelling trader and had a planned route to follow as it traversed the world's oceans. The Dutch captain at the helm had to make decisions as to where they went based on directions from home to sell or to buy certain items in specific ports. What made their appearance so rare in some ports was the captains discretion to buy more of some goods because it was a good price. His holds were full and he now had to interrupt his planned or promised route to resell his new found purchases. When he finally got back to the original schedule of his trade route --- IT WAS ONCE IN A BLUE MOON --- Hence that is where the term originated - not because of an imagined ethnic variety of our "man in the moon." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimcorbett ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I've removed this text from the article Esbat, as it strikes me as being very unlikely -- the full Venus doesn't give off much light -- certainly less than the Earth. Can anyone comment on this?
The Venus explanation is nonsense - Venus is simply not bright enough to illuminate the moon. However, the following explanation of a Blue Moon is one I've heard before; "Although a 'blue moon' doesn't really look blue, there have been times when the moon does seem to have a blue color. This can be caused by dust particles in the atmosphere, which scatter light. The effects of this dust on the light coming from the moon can cause it to appear bluish in color. Fine dust particles are ejected into the Earth's upper atmosphere after large volcanic eruptions, for example. The eruption of the Krakatoa volcano in 1883 gave us one such 'blue moon'. For about 24 months after this volcano exploded, the dust it spewed into the upper atmosphere caused the moon to appear green and blue when viewed from around the world. " ( Source) Denni ☯ 2005 July 7 19:35 (UTC)
I always thought the phrase "once in a blue moon" did actually refer to the coloration of the moon due to a rare size distribution or aerosols (or smoke). This seems to be the origin of this phrase in the common vernacular, at least originally. Perhaps more recently the astronomical definition came more into play. Should the "true" origin be featured more prominently in the article? I will put this into the article with supporting references that would help back this up. Here is one to consider: [3]— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 15:02, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
- See more at: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/once-in-a-blue-moon/#sthash.Ky92kCu0.dpuf"
the article states that the moon has appeared blue, but not that that is the origin (or has ever been the intended meaning) of the phrase "blue moon" compare it to when pigs fly, the fact that the moon can actually appear blue is coincidence. Deunanknute ( talk) 16:42, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
In fact, the very earliest uses of the term were remarkably like saying the Moon is made of green cheese. Both were obvious absurdities, about which there could be no doubt. "He would argue the Moon was blue" was taken by the average person of the 16th century as we take "He'd argue that black is white." second paragraph mentions usage of "blue moon" as an absurdity in the 16th century, it goes on to mention the moon appearing blue in 1883 200-300 years later Deunanknute ( talk) 16:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
which is already mentioned under Blue_moon#Visibly_blue_moon and under Blue_moon#Definition as "Owing to the rarity of a blue moon, the term "blue moon" is used colloquially to mean a rare event, as in the phrase "once in a blue moon"" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deunanknute ( talk • contribs) 17:10, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
The Definitions section mentions the term "once in a blue moon" as referring to it's rarity. The Visibility section talks about the fact that the moon can literally appear blue. The phrase "once in a blue moon" does not owe its origins to the fact that the moon can sometimes appear blue. These two facts are separate from each other. Deunanknute ( talk) 17:27, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Your proposed edit states that the term "blue moon" originated with the moon appearing blue. This is false. The first known use of "blue moon" was in 1528, referring to an impossibility. The first known use of "once in a blue moon"[sic] was in 1821, referring to a rare event. Deunanknute ( talk) 18:17, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
you have no evidence that the phrase "once in a blue moon" originally referred to a blue color moon
Deunanknute (
talk)
18:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
"once in a blue moon" originated from "blue moon" meaning never
I think the author you are linking merely assumed the connection
https://books.google.com/books?id=h_AIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA228&dq=%22blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3wC8VJLfOIShNoSwhNAD&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBDisAg#v=onepage&q=%22blue%20moon%22&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=u0EqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA78&dq=%22blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HgG8VOC2FcHvggSU04OAAw&ved=0CCUQ6AEwADiiAg#v=onepage&q=%22blue%20moon%22&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=GXxcAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA89&dq=%22once+in+a+blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cgK8VNqcEcOgNqyFg9gB&ved=0CBwQ6AEwADjmAQ#v=onepage&q=%22once%20in%20a%20blue%20moon%22&f=false
Deunanknute (
talk)
19:05, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Are both authors incorrect then? I think these are two authors who are looking at the overall historical evolution of the multiple definitions. It is hard for me to ignore the "literal" coloration as part of this history of the definition of the Blue Moon and of "Once in a Blue Moon". Sorry if this seems confusing, but I might ask if the purpose of this article is to talk about the "never" occurring Blue Moon, then why talk about the calendrical recurring one? At least one might find a way to discuss this more completely in the definition section? Maybe the definition should mention three main items in historic sequence: 1) The earliest "absurd" one. 2) The once in a blue moon atmospheric color. 3) The calendrical interpretation more recently emphasized.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 19:14, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
The article is about both - they are the same
"blue moon" originally meant "never", then it was later used as "very rarely" (much as we do with the word never today)
separately "belewe" (betrayer) moon was used to describe the 4th moon in a season, it betrays by making you think the season is over
"belewe" sounds like "blue" and the 4th moon started to be called "blue" (again, there are many examples today)
but, there is no evidence that the origin of the phrase "blue moon" has anything to do with actual color, except in assumed etymology
https://books.google.com/books?id=vPgIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA328&dq=%22once+in+a+blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uwW8VPGaB8OkNqHCgOgF&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAzi0AQ#v=onepage&q=%22once%20in%20a%20blue%20moon%22&f=false
Deunanknute (
talk)
19:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
On the other hand, here is another reference from a respected weather magazine that discusses the two main uses of the "blue moon" term, in the meteorological and astronomical communities. They both seem legitimate here with favor to the atmospheric one: http://www.weatherwise.org/Archives/Back%20Issues/2009/Sept-Oct%202009/full-Gedzelman.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 19:43, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
That article gives no evidence for "blue moon" originating with apparent color due to atmospheric effects. It does mention the first usage, which in context meant something impossible.
the article states “But the popular meaning of the expression refers both to color and to something unusual.”, but gives no further evidence.
Deunanknute (
talk)
20:08, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
We do have something of an "authority", folklorist Philip Hiscock who is stating the connection from the color effect to the Blue Moon expression in the 19th century. "Even by the nineteenth century it was clear that although visually blue moons were rare, they did happen from time to time. So the phrase "once in a blue moon" came about. " This seems to me again important enough to recognize more in the definition. http://webs.wichita.edu/lapo/blumoon.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 20:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
that's just a copy of your other source
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/once-in-a-blue-moon/
Deunanknute (
talk)
20:37, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
maybe once in a blue moon someone will look at this talk page.
I have once read that a "blue moon" refer to a full moon that also occur when the moon is in apogee (the furthest away from earth) this is a combination that only occur about every 50 ? years. Could not find any refrence to it anywhere.
can anyone help ?
As far as I remember there was such a "blue moon" few years ago. The moon was 15% smaller (as seen from earth)
Does this ring a bell to anyone or "what was I smoking?" is the better question to ask ? Zeq 20:33, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
BTW the full moon apogee is at 2014 so may it is every 19-20 years Zeq 20:37, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
So..... No one care about this ? only middle east articles get frequest visits ? Zeq 17:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be Blue Moon ? -- 141.30.212.78 20:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I can not understand at all what the rationale is for the section "Calendar vs. Farmers' Almanac: 2004 – 2010". Could someone please explain this to me? Lunokhod 22:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
A number of Pagan beliefs rely heavily on specific interpretation of the lunar cycle. The difference is important, as it determines when the named moons occur and can be celebrated. Bards 20:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I see the section has been renamed, but it's still not the greatest. The difference is between being a strictly astronomical phenomenon (unfortunately referred to with the Farmer tag) that is the same everywhere on Earth, and being an artifact of calendars and timezones and therefore happening at different dates in different places.
It would be nice if this whole article were rewritten using the objective Astronomical definition as the standard, with only one specific section to describe the Sky&Telescope misinterpretation of the Farmer's Almanac that introduced the subjective Calendar definition.
Does anyone have a picture of a blue moon? Quietmartialartist 00:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I do. Reply on my talk page if you want me to give you the URL (seeing that I do not know how to put pictures on articles). Chimchar monferno ( talk) 04:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi 199.33,
This page defined seasons as 3 months, starting on March 22 etc (but I'm not sure where that came from) This is consistent with North American seasons (ie: Winter starts on Dec 22), and that's how I explained it in the text.
However, your definition has the first Winter moon starting anywhere from 7th Dec to 5 Jan (and I'm not sure where that came from) .... and we're now contradicting ourselves. Do you have a source for the info we can add so we know which is right? Greg ( talk) 19:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
The Winter solstice is 12/21. The new moon nearest that is the Early Winter moon. So it's right to say that the Early Winter moon can start almost 2 weeks before, or almost 2 weeks after, the solstice. (199.33) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.33.137.2 ( talk) 17:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh, it also contradicts the dates of blue moons - all those dates are on or around the 21st of the month... to do that the seasons must start on or around the 21st of the month (2 months prior). Greg ( talk) 19:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Sky and Telescope confirms the moon dates. [6] Greg ( talk) 19:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I see you're talking about "New Moon" which starts 14 days before the solstice, and which leaves "full moon" to occur on or after the solstice. Does this make it more complicated!?!? Greg ( talk) 20:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
The Farmer's Almanac was directed towards farmers. They were very interested in knowing which seasons happened on which dates. There are certain crops that need to be planted in the early spring, and other crops in either mid or late spring. The same thing applies to harvest times. Farmers need to plan ahead to get laborers, etc... Having an almanac that showed these seasons was great. For example, the early spring showed the 4 weeks on the calendar that was for planting early spring crops. The late summer moon shows the times to reserve the laborers for harvesting the particular crops that will be ripe in the late summer. So it wasn't just the full moon, but rather the entire 4 week period that was important.
Aside from farming (I'm not a farmer) I think it is romantic to be able to look at the moon on any day and know which moon it is. Today is 2/28. Looking at the moon today I know that it is the late winter moon. Soon it will turn into the early spring moon. Isn't the moon a great way to get excited about Spring? Doesn't this make the moon seasons, and the blue moons, more relevant to everyone, including those that are not farmers?
I'll add the dates of the seasons for 2008 to the article. Would it be too difficult for someone to set up the front page of Wikipeida to automatically display which season it is for each day? For example: Today is 2/28. It should display "Late Winter moon" somewhere on the front page. On 3/6 it would automatically switch to "Early Spring moon". I think a lot of people would like this convenient track of the seasons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.33.137.2 ( talk) 18:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Having the current cycle would be great. I don't think wikipedia can do it... I hae to run now, but may take a quick look at "phases of the moon" or similar here - because if it's possible, that page will have done that eh?? Greg ( talk) 22:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
There is a contradiction in the discussion of blue moons for 2012. There is a long quote stating that there is no blue moon in 2012, in spite of there being 13 moons in 2012, because the final moon is after the solstice. By this calculation the blue moon is August 21, 2013. This agrees with, for instance, [1] or even the Sky & Telescope article [2]. However, if you go to the Farmers Almanac ( [3]) it places the blue moon in 2012. Note that the astronomical articles all reference the 'old' or the 'Maine' Farmers Almanac, which leads us to believe that the 'new' Farmers Almanac is using some other system - actually probably using calendar years instead of the astronomical seasons. Dgsteig ( talk) 11:25, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
References
It appears that Belewe also means "Betrayer" in old english.
So when the people in the 1300s said "If they say the moon is Belewe, we must believe it's true" would have a double meaning of "if the church say it's a betrayer moon, rather than the real season, we have to take their word for it".
Combine that with the church's focus on the computus - where Easter MUST fall on the first sunday after the easter-based full moon.
So the late winter moon is the moon for Lent (Lenten Moon - lent begins on the first day of the new Lent moon), the early spring moon is the moon for Easter. Note that the Farmer's Almanac definition then fits this calculation - those moons always retain their names. And the moon before Lent MIGHT get confused as being the Lent moon, and it would be the clergy saying "that's not the lent moon, that's the betrayer moon".
Just thoughts... putting together lots of little facts :-) Greg ( talk) 20:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
This has info on blue moon dates, and that calculations of Farmer's Almanac are based on the nominal vernal equinox (21 March) (not the real vernal equinox, nor the december/winter solstice).
Farmers Almanac says that Belewe means "to betray" in Old English and supposes the concept is linked to an extra moon.
Greg ( talk) 21:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
This etymology of "belewe" comes from Old English 'be' (transitive prefix) + 'læwan' (to betray); however interesting, this is utterly pointless unless one can produce any credible evidence that "blue" (c.1300, bleu, blwe, etc., from O.Fr. blo, Frankish *blao, from P.Gmc. *blæwaz [cf. O.E. blaw, O.S., O.H.G. blao, Dan. blaa, Swed. blå, O.Fris. blau, M.Du. bla, Du. blauw, Ger. blau], from PIE *bhle-was) was ever acceptably spelled "belewe". See Etymology Online entry: 'blue' and Old English: be-, blǽ-hǽwen, be-lǽwan Garris0n ( talk) 04:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Last I checked the moon took about 28 days to make a full cycle. That would make 13 full moons per year. I have also heard the wide told tale that a blue moon was the second full moon of a Gregorian Calendar month, but it occurs 1-2 times per year, not once every couple of years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.3.58 ( talk) 20:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Just look at the list of blue moons in the 10 year period in this article. There are 4 (no matter which way it's counted). There are occassionally an extra 2 blue moons if the calendar definition is used, when no full moon falls in February at all (black moon). Greg ( talk) 22:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Would it be correct to place information regarding the use of blue moons in movies, books and television? For instance, I know that the show Charmed had an episode that revolved around the sisters turning into beasts due to the blue moon. 208.242.14.183 ( talk) 20:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I resolved some confusion that had accumulated in the introduction. Someone had apparently divided the average period between two blue moons by 365 days (instead of 365 + x) and anonymously added the resulting number of years with lots and lots of digits but no reference; then someone else had taken this value at face value and anonymously added the "fact" that if you use the frequency that Google returns if you search for "once in a blue moon" you get a different number of years (also specified with lots and lots of digits). I removed all this and simply stated that the blue moon occurs about once every 2.7154 years -- these are the digits up to which the frequency provided by Google (1.16699016 × Hz) and the result of the calculation synodic month / ( vernal equinox year - 12 * synodic month) match. (The synodic month is the period of the moon's phases, and the vernal equinox year is the year that the major calendars try to track.) If you add any digits beyond this, please provide a source. Joriki ( talk) 19:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This article is contradictory and incoherent. The most obvious contradiction is that the definition given in the intro is contradicted later in the article.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 00:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, at the very least, it's incoherent. The introduction should say there are a number of interpretations of the term "blue moon". These are:
These "definitions" are mutually contradictory, and to dump them in the introduction and the body of the article like this makes for a very incoherent and misleading article.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:23, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Just look at the discussion of the computus in Wikipedia. Does it mention the "betrayer moon" or anything like it? No, no, no. Other than that I would only say I stand my all my statements as they are factual and logical.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 01:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
For your information, my personal page was vandalised by other people and I haven't bothered to change it. You seem to have a dogmatic attachment to your own opinions. You don't seem to accept that other people can have legitimate disagreements and can legitimately demand evidence for the assertions in supposedly encyclopedic articles.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 22:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Jack Upland's objection seems sound to me. For instance, the article begins by giving the recent definition, said to be based on an error in Sky and Telescope a mere 40 or 60 years ago (it wasn't consistent), and buries what it seems to say is the original definition in the body of the article. I am tempted to simply move the "original" definition to the introduction with the "new" definition so at least anyone in a hurry won't get a wrong impression. Best would be if someone with scholarly knowledge helps out. Zaslav ( talk) 05:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
This article needs a photograph -- Melly42 ( talk) 23:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to see a reference for this if it to be included. If no reference is provided, I'd like to delete it. Gandydancer ( talk) 17:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Does the blue moon have anything to do with the expression out of the blue? Just wondering... :) – Alensha talk 20:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Blue Moon's are assaociated with bad luck also aren't they?
Like the phrase "Born under a Blue Moon", implying that the person/thing is cursed with Bad luck or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UFOash ( talk • contribs) 19:33, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody know when the last total eclipse of a blue moon was? I realize there was a partial just last year, on Dec 31 2009. If this information is available I think it would make an interesting addition to the article. Nibios ( talk) 18:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
I've always been taught that a blue moon is the second full moon in a single month. AmericanLeMans ( talk) 02:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Not that it should be added to the article, but this Wikipedia article (and a photo "blue moon.jpg") feature fairly prominently in the new The Smurfs movie. Bookcats ( talk) 01:45, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
It could also be that the notion of a blue moon is related to the Purkinje effect. The effect is described as:
"Peak luminance sensitivity of the human eye to shift toward the *blue* end of the color spectrum at low illumination levels." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purkinje_effect
Film production sometimes uses dark blue filters to simulate night filming. The result looks natural because of the Purkinje effect I guess.
Janburse ( talk) 17:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
The French version of this article claims that there is another phenomenon called "Blue Moon" in which the moon actually becomes blue during an eclipse under extremely rare circumstances (the Earth being extremely cold would send back blue light to the moon instead of the more common infrared that turn the moon to red). It also claims that Confucius mentions one such moon as "icy looking". Does anyone know about this? I couldn't find any other information on the web about it, and it is also not mentioned in other languages on Wikipedia (at least not in the German, Spanish, Italian, Russian and Portugese ones). It would be interesting to get more information from a real historian/scientist on this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.9.13.133 ( talk) 13:12, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
It's important to note that there is more than one farmers almanac and we shouldn't confuse them. The one that started the confusion in the 40's with a Sky and Telescope writer is the "Maine Farmers Almanac". That should not be confused with either the "Farmers Almanac" or the "Old Farmers Almanac" which are different publications.-- RadioFan ( talk) 22:16, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I have done some searching (Middle English, Old English, Anglo-Saxon, Scots), and can't find a pre-20th century etymology that gives "belewe" as an origin for "blue". The closest is "blæwe". Nor can I find "belewe" as having the meaning "betrayer". The closest is "bewray". I can't find the quote "If they say the moon is belewe [blue] / We must believe that it is true." in a pre-twentieth century source. The reference [3] cites the first part of the quote "Rede me and be not wrothe", but I don't find the alleged second part "If they say the moon is belewe [blue] / We must believe that it is true." 96.54.42.226 ( talk) 03:50, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
The objection by 96.54.42.226 has not been answered. Does someone have enough knowledge to give an answer? Zaslav ( talk) 05:26, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Sorry re my recent knee jerk delete in the lead. So many times people have tried to edit the seasonal blue moon out that I have grown careless and just assume they are wrong. The edit was an improvement. Sorry... Gandydancer ( talk) 13:36, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
"According to Google Calculator, "once in a blue moon" is equal to 1.16699016 × 10-8 hertz."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.171.11.242 ( talk • contribs) 10:46, 8 February 2014 UTC
Can someone tell me why it called a blue moon? Liana05omg ( talk) 02:37, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
I find it interesting that the church calculates a rather complex array of months where they need to insert an extra month (moon month) to make everything else fit. I am deleting my earlier text asking where it all fit with blue moons.
"The extra months commenced on 3 December (year 2), 2 September (year 5), 6 March (year 8), 4 December (year 10), 2 November (year 13), 2 August (year 16), and 5 March (year 19)" (from the Computus entry).
All their observations which came to the 19 year formula and placing of moons had to originally come from observances of moon timings and winter/summer solstices, approximated into the computus.
Now to work out what the church called their extra moons Greg ( talk) 05:36, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
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How can a blue moon be on the first of the month ever?
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
157.248.100.53 (
talk) 22:35, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Surely these dates are incorrect?
2018: January 2 and 31, only in time zones west of UTC+11.
2018: March 2 and 31, only in time zones west of UTC+12. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
124.169.112.121 (
talk)
04:16, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
There have been at least two rather unsatisfactory discussions above on this topic (
here and
here), going back at least as far as 2008. Until I amended it just now, our article had a relatively lengthy but deeply misleading paragraph on the subject, seemingly backed by 3 reliable sources. In fact two of these sources (
here and
here) seemingly made no mention of Blue Moon, let alone Betrayer Moon, and the third (
here) simply repeated a speculation without mentioning that its originator had already admitted it was completely wrong. Our article then added much that was not in that source, as well as another related deeply implausible unsourced speculation later in the section (Old English disappeared in the 12th century, so there is no reason to think it likely that anti-clerical writers around 1528 knew anything about Old English words, still less that they would expect their readers to know such words). I have tried to fix all this as best I can, tho others may well do a better job than I have. I have also considered removing all mention of the speculation, but that would leave a fiction partly created by us circulating out there uncorrected, without any real attempt by us to undo the harm that we had done by presenting the correct facts to the readers whom we had previously helped to mislead. (Indeed a part of me would like to say in the article that Wikipedia had contributed to the problem, but in the past I've found that such admissions tend to get at least one such admission eventually got removed for various reasons, possibly rightly so).
Tlhslobus (
talk)
11:06, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
This article is very biased towards American usage. I expect my edits to be reverted by Americans, but the contents of the article constitute the third definition in the OED Third Edition updated March 2013. Can we not have a less biased article that gives equal weight to the OED's definition 1: "A moon (real, depicted, or imagined) that appears blue. On rare occasions the moon can appear distinctly blue owing to the presence of smoke or dust particles in the atmosphere"? Dbfirs 07:49, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Under books there is a citation required for the statement "Note that if two full moons fall within the same astrological sign they will fall in different calendar months, and vice versa." Is there a need to find a source that states the astrological signs change about the 21st of each month and the lunar cycle is ~28 days? The offset between the calendar month and the astrological cycle can never include 2 full moons. Brian (Shadowfoot) ( talk) 11:25, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Putting this link here for later. The article needs to have the uncited speculation stripped out and some actual references put in. It seems at the very least that evidence of the proverb usage predates the evidence of the calendar usage... So three sections: Proverb Astronomy Calendar
https://wordhistories.net/2017/06/21/once-in-a-blue-moon-origin/
Jmackaerospace ( talk) 02:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
I removed the Popular culture section because none of the topics mentioned had anything to do with the scientific term blue moon. I was reverted saying I needed to allow time for improvements. It was tagged over a year ago--that seems to be enough time for needed work to be done. For example in the song "Blue Moon of Kentucky" with Monroe singing, "Blue moon of Kentucky keep on shinning, shine on the one whose gone and left me blue"--what does that have to do with the scientific term? Sectionworker ( talk) 16:42, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
The English use of"in a Blue Moon", seems to date from no later than 1821, Real Life in London by Pierce Egan.
See https://www.theidioms.com/once-in-a-blue-moon/ cited in this article.
So is unlikely to have anything to do with a provincial journal, first published in 1819. 86.161.210.123 ( talk) 00:07, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
The OED has an extensive entry for "blue moon", and I've added this at the start of the article. A lot of what follows in the article is now repetitive and redundant, in some cases inaccurate, and needs to be shortened or removed. Cheeselymoon ( talk) 14:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
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The information from Full moon#The Blue Moon should probably merged into this article. BlankVerse ∅ 16:26, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The term "Once in a Blue Moon" has nothing to do with the cyclical appearance of a celestial body that we call the moon. It is actually associated with an early Dutch trading ship known as the "Blue Moon." The Blue Moon was a world travelling trader and had a planned route to follow as it traversed the world's oceans. The Dutch captain at the helm had to make decisions as to where they went based on directions from home to sell or to buy certain items in specific ports. What made their appearance so rare in some ports was the captains discretion to buy more of some goods because it was a good price. His holds were full and he now had to interrupt his planned or promised route to resell his new found purchases. When he finally got back to the original schedule of his trade route --- IT WAS ONCE IN A BLUE MOON --- Hence that is where the term originated - not because of an imagined ethnic variety of our "man in the moon." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimcorbett ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I've removed this text from the article Esbat, as it strikes me as being very unlikely -- the full Venus doesn't give off much light -- certainly less than the Earth. Can anyone comment on this?
The Venus explanation is nonsense - Venus is simply not bright enough to illuminate the moon. However, the following explanation of a Blue Moon is one I've heard before; "Although a 'blue moon' doesn't really look blue, there have been times when the moon does seem to have a blue color. This can be caused by dust particles in the atmosphere, which scatter light. The effects of this dust on the light coming from the moon can cause it to appear bluish in color. Fine dust particles are ejected into the Earth's upper atmosphere after large volcanic eruptions, for example. The eruption of the Krakatoa volcano in 1883 gave us one such 'blue moon'. For about 24 months after this volcano exploded, the dust it spewed into the upper atmosphere caused the moon to appear green and blue when viewed from around the world. " ( Source) Denni ☯ 2005 July 7 19:35 (UTC)
I always thought the phrase "once in a blue moon" did actually refer to the coloration of the moon due to a rare size distribution or aerosols (or smoke). This seems to be the origin of this phrase in the common vernacular, at least originally. Perhaps more recently the astronomical definition came more into play. Should the "true" origin be featured more prominently in the article? I will put this into the article with supporting references that would help back this up. Here is one to consider: [3]— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 15:02, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
- See more at: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/once-in-a-blue-moon/#sthash.Ky92kCu0.dpuf"
the article states that the moon has appeared blue, but not that that is the origin (or has ever been the intended meaning) of the phrase "blue moon" compare it to when pigs fly, the fact that the moon can actually appear blue is coincidence. Deunanknute ( talk) 16:42, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
In fact, the very earliest uses of the term were remarkably like saying the Moon is made of green cheese. Both were obvious absurdities, about which there could be no doubt. "He would argue the Moon was blue" was taken by the average person of the 16th century as we take "He'd argue that black is white." second paragraph mentions usage of "blue moon" as an absurdity in the 16th century, it goes on to mention the moon appearing blue in 1883 200-300 years later Deunanknute ( talk) 16:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
which is already mentioned under Blue_moon#Visibly_blue_moon and under Blue_moon#Definition as "Owing to the rarity of a blue moon, the term "blue moon" is used colloquially to mean a rare event, as in the phrase "once in a blue moon"" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deunanknute ( talk • contribs) 17:10, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
The Definitions section mentions the term "once in a blue moon" as referring to it's rarity. The Visibility section talks about the fact that the moon can literally appear blue. The phrase "once in a blue moon" does not owe its origins to the fact that the moon can sometimes appear blue. These two facts are separate from each other. Deunanknute ( talk) 17:27, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Your proposed edit states that the term "blue moon" originated with the moon appearing blue. This is false. The first known use of "blue moon" was in 1528, referring to an impossibility. The first known use of "once in a blue moon"[sic] was in 1821, referring to a rare event. Deunanknute ( talk) 18:17, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
you have no evidence that the phrase "once in a blue moon" originally referred to a blue color moon
Deunanknute (
talk)
18:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
"once in a blue moon" originated from "blue moon" meaning never
I think the author you are linking merely assumed the connection
https://books.google.com/books?id=h_AIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA228&dq=%22blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3wC8VJLfOIShNoSwhNAD&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBDisAg#v=onepage&q=%22blue%20moon%22&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=u0EqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA78&dq=%22blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HgG8VOC2FcHvggSU04OAAw&ved=0CCUQ6AEwADiiAg#v=onepage&q=%22blue%20moon%22&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=GXxcAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA89&dq=%22once+in+a+blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cgK8VNqcEcOgNqyFg9gB&ved=0CBwQ6AEwADjmAQ#v=onepage&q=%22once%20in%20a%20blue%20moon%22&f=false
Deunanknute (
talk)
19:05, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Are both authors incorrect then? I think these are two authors who are looking at the overall historical evolution of the multiple definitions. It is hard for me to ignore the "literal" coloration as part of this history of the definition of the Blue Moon and of "Once in a Blue Moon". Sorry if this seems confusing, but I might ask if the purpose of this article is to talk about the "never" occurring Blue Moon, then why talk about the calendrical recurring one? At least one might find a way to discuss this more completely in the definition section? Maybe the definition should mention three main items in historic sequence: 1) The earliest "absurd" one. 2) The once in a blue moon atmospheric color. 3) The calendrical interpretation more recently emphasized.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 19:14, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
The article is about both - they are the same
"blue moon" originally meant "never", then it was later used as "very rarely" (much as we do with the word never today)
separately "belewe" (betrayer) moon was used to describe the 4th moon in a season, it betrays by making you think the season is over
"belewe" sounds like "blue" and the 4th moon started to be called "blue" (again, there are many examples today)
but, there is no evidence that the origin of the phrase "blue moon" has anything to do with actual color, except in assumed etymology
https://books.google.com/books?id=vPgIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA328&dq=%22once+in+a+blue+moon%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uwW8VPGaB8OkNqHCgOgF&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAzi0AQ#v=onepage&q=%22once%20in%20a%20blue%20moon%22&f=false
Deunanknute (
talk)
19:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
On the other hand, here is another reference from a respected weather magazine that discusses the two main uses of the "blue moon" term, in the meteorological and astronomical communities. They both seem legitimate here with favor to the atmospheric one: http://www.weatherwise.org/Archives/Back%20Issues/2009/Sept-Oct%202009/full-Gedzelman.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 19:43, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
That article gives no evidence for "blue moon" originating with apparent color due to atmospheric effects. It does mention the first usage, which in context meant something impossible.
the article states “But the popular meaning of the expression refers both to color and to something unusual.”, but gives no further evidence.
Deunanknute (
talk)
20:08, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
We do have something of an "authority", folklorist Philip Hiscock who is stating the connection from the color effect to the Blue Moon expression in the 19th century. "Even by the nineteenth century it was clear that although visually blue moons were rare, they did happen from time to time. So the phrase "once in a blue moon" came about. " This seems to me again important enough to recognize more in the definition. http://webs.wichita.edu/lapo/blumoon.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.130.136 ( talk) 20:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
that's just a copy of your other source
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/once-in-a-blue-moon/
Deunanknute (
talk)
20:37, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
maybe once in a blue moon someone will look at this talk page.
I have once read that a "blue moon" refer to a full moon that also occur when the moon is in apogee (the furthest away from earth) this is a combination that only occur about every 50 ? years. Could not find any refrence to it anywhere.
can anyone help ?
As far as I remember there was such a "blue moon" few years ago. The moon was 15% smaller (as seen from earth)
Does this ring a bell to anyone or "what was I smoking?" is the better question to ask ? Zeq 20:33, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
BTW the full moon apogee is at 2014 so may it is every 19-20 years Zeq 20:37, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
So..... No one care about this ? only middle east articles get frequest visits ? Zeq 17:28, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be Blue Moon ? -- 141.30.212.78 20:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I can not understand at all what the rationale is for the section "Calendar vs. Farmers' Almanac: 2004 – 2010". Could someone please explain this to me? Lunokhod 22:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
A number of Pagan beliefs rely heavily on specific interpretation of the lunar cycle. The difference is important, as it determines when the named moons occur and can be celebrated. Bards 20:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I see the section has been renamed, but it's still not the greatest. The difference is between being a strictly astronomical phenomenon (unfortunately referred to with the Farmer tag) that is the same everywhere on Earth, and being an artifact of calendars and timezones and therefore happening at different dates in different places.
It would be nice if this whole article were rewritten using the objective Astronomical definition as the standard, with only one specific section to describe the Sky&Telescope misinterpretation of the Farmer's Almanac that introduced the subjective Calendar definition.
Does anyone have a picture of a blue moon? Quietmartialartist 00:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I do. Reply on my talk page if you want me to give you the URL (seeing that I do not know how to put pictures on articles). Chimchar monferno ( talk) 04:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi 199.33,
This page defined seasons as 3 months, starting on March 22 etc (but I'm not sure where that came from) This is consistent with North American seasons (ie: Winter starts on Dec 22), and that's how I explained it in the text.
However, your definition has the first Winter moon starting anywhere from 7th Dec to 5 Jan (and I'm not sure where that came from) .... and we're now contradicting ourselves. Do you have a source for the info we can add so we know which is right? Greg ( talk) 19:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
The Winter solstice is 12/21. The new moon nearest that is the Early Winter moon. So it's right to say that the Early Winter moon can start almost 2 weeks before, or almost 2 weeks after, the solstice. (199.33) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.33.137.2 ( talk) 17:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh, it also contradicts the dates of blue moons - all those dates are on or around the 21st of the month... to do that the seasons must start on or around the 21st of the month (2 months prior). Greg ( talk) 19:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Sky and Telescope confirms the moon dates. [6] Greg ( talk) 19:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I see you're talking about "New Moon" which starts 14 days before the solstice, and which leaves "full moon" to occur on or after the solstice. Does this make it more complicated!?!? Greg ( talk) 20:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
The Farmer's Almanac was directed towards farmers. They were very interested in knowing which seasons happened on which dates. There are certain crops that need to be planted in the early spring, and other crops in either mid or late spring. The same thing applies to harvest times. Farmers need to plan ahead to get laborers, etc... Having an almanac that showed these seasons was great. For example, the early spring showed the 4 weeks on the calendar that was for planting early spring crops. The late summer moon shows the times to reserve the laborers for harvesting the particular crops that will be ripe in the late summer. So it wasn't just the full moon, but rather the entire 4 week period that was important.
Aside from farming (I'm not a farmer) I think it is romantic to be able to look at the moon on any day and know which moon it is. Today is 2/28. Looking at the moon today I know that it is the late winter moon. Soon it will turn into the early spring moon. Isn't the moon a great way to get excited about Spring? Doesn't this make the moon seasons, and the blue moons, more relevant to everyone, including those that are not farmers?
I'll add the dates of the seasons for 2008 to the article. Would it be too difficult for someone to set up the front page of Wikipeida to automatically display which season it is for each day? For example: Today is 2/28. It should display "Late Winter moon" somewhere on the front page. On 3/6 it would automatically switch to "Early Spring moon". I think a lot of people would like this convenient track of the seasons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.33.137.2 ( talk) 18:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Having the current cycle would be great. I don't think wikipedia can do it... I hae to run now, but may take a quick look at "phases of the moon" or similar here - because if it's possible, that page will have done that eh?? Greg ( talk) 22:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
There is a contradiction in the discussion of blue moons for 2012. There is a long quote stating that there is no blue moon in 2012, in spite of there being 13 moons in 2012, because the final moon is after the solstice. By this calculation the blue moon is August 21, 2013. This agrees with, for instance, [1] or even the Sky & Telescope article [2]. However, if you go to the Farmers Almanac ( [3]) it places the blue moon in 2012. Note that the astronomical articles all reference the 'old' or the 'Maine' Farmers Almanac, which leads us to believe that the 'new' Farmers Almanac is using some other system - actually probably using calendar years instead of the astronomical seasons. Dgsteig ( talk) 11:25, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
References
It appears that Belewe also means "Betrayer" in old english.
So when the people in the 1300s said "If they say the moon is Belewe, we must believe it's true" would have a double meaning of "if the church say it's a betrayer moon, rather than the real season, we have to take their word for it".
Combine that with the church's focus on the computus - where Easter MUST fall on the first sunday after the easter-based full moon.
So the late winter moon is the moon for Lent (Lenten Moon - lent begins on the first day of the new Lent moon), the early spring moon is the moon for Easter. Note that the Farmer's Almanac definition then fits this calculation - those moons always retain their names. And the moon before Lent MIGHT get confused as being the Lent moon, and it would be the clergy saying "that's not the lent moon, that's the betrayer moon".
Just thoughts... putting together lots of little facts :-) Greg ( talk) 20:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
This has info on blue moon dates, and that calculations of Farmer's Almanac are based on the nominal vernal equinox (21 March) (not the real vernal equinox, nor the december/winter solstice).
Farmers Almanac says that Belewe means "to betray" in Old English and supposes the concept is linked to an extra moon.
Greg ( talk) 21:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
This etymology of "belewe" comes from Old English 'be' (transitive prefix) + 'læwan' (to betray); however interesting, this is utterly pointless unless one can produce any credible evidence that "blue" (c.1300, bleu, blwe, etc., from O.Fr. blo, Frankish *blao, from P.Gmc. *blæwaz [cf. O.E. blaw, O.S., O.H.G. blao, Dan. blaa, Swed. blå, O.Fris. blau, M.Du. bla, Du. blauw, Ger. blau], from PIE *bhle-was) was ever acceptably spelled "belewe". See Etymology Online entry: 'blue' and Old English: be-, blǽ-hǽwen, be-lǽwan Garris0n ( talk) 04:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Last I checked the moon took about 28 days to make a full cycle. That would make 13 full moons per year. I have also heard the wide told tale that a blue moon was the second full moon of a Gregorian Calendar month, but it occurs 1-2 times per year, not once every couple of years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.3.58 ( talk) 20:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Just look at the list of blue moons in the 10 year period in this article. There are 4 (no matter which way it's counted). There are occassionally an extra 2 blue moons if the calendar definition is used, when no full moon falls in February at all (black moon). Greg ( talk) 22:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Would it be correct to place information regarding the use of blue moons in movies, books and television? For instance, I know that the show Charmed had an episode that revolved around the sisters turning into beasts due to the blue moon. 208.242.14.183 ( talk) 20:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I resolved some confusion that had accumulated in the introduction. Someone had apparently divided the average period between two blue moons by 365 days (instead of 365 + x) and anonymously added the resulting number of years with lots and lots of digits but no reference; then someone else had taken this value at face value and anonymously added the "fact" that if you use the frequency that Google returns if you search for "once in a blue moon" you get a different number of years (also specified with lots and lots of digits). I removed all this and simply stated that the blue moon occurs about once every 2.7154 years -- these are the digits up to which the frequency provided by Google (1.16699016 × Hz) and the result of the calculation synodic month / ( vernal equinox year - 12 * synodic month) match. (The synodic month is the period of the moon's phases, and the vernal equinox year is the year that the major calendars try to track.) If you add any digits beyond this, please provide a source. Joriki ( talk) 19:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
This article is contradictory and incoherent. The most obvious contradiction is that the definition given in the intro is contradicted later in the article.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 00:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, at the very least, it's incoherent. The introduction should say there are a number of interpretations of the term "blue moon". These are:
These "definitions" are mutually contradictory, and to dump them in the introduction and the body of the article like this makes for a very incoherent and misleading article.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:23, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Just look at the discussion of the computus in Wikipedia. Does it mention the "betrayer moon" or anything like it? No, no, no. Other than that I would only say I stand my all my statements as they are factual and logical.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 01:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
For your information, my personal page was vandalised by other people and I haven't bothered to change it. You seem to have a dogmatic attachment to your own opinions. You don't seem to accept that other people can have legitimate disagreements and can legitimately demand evidence for the assertions in supposedly encyclopedic articles.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 22:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Jack Upland's objection seems sound to me. For instance, the article begins by giving the recent definition, said to be based on an error in Sky and Telescope a mere 40 or 60 years ago (it wasn't consistent), and buries what it seems to say is the original definition in the body of the article. I am tempted to simply move the "original" definition to the introduction with the "new" definition so at least anyone in a hurry won't get a wrong impression. Best would be if someone with scholarly knowledge helps out. Zaslav ( talk) 05:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
This article needs a photograph -- Melly42 ( talk) 23:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to see a reference for this if it to be included. If no reference is provided, I'd like to delete it. Gandydancer ( talk) 17:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Does the blue moon have anything to do with the expression out of the blue? Just wondering... :) – Alensha talk 20:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Blue Moon's are assaociated with bad luck also aren't they?
Like the phrase "Born under a Blue Moon", implying that the person/thing is cursed with Bad luck or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UFOash ( talk • contribs) 19:33, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody know when the last total eclipse of a blue moon was? I realize there was a partial just last year, on Dec 31 2009. If this information is available I think it would make an interesting addition to the article. Nibios ( talk) 18:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
I've always been taught that a blue moon is the second full moon in a single month. AmericanLeMans ( talk) 02:22, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Not that it should be added to the article, but this Wikipedia article (and a photo "blue moon.jpg") feature fairly prominently in the new The Smurfs movie. Bookcats ( talk) 01:45, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
It could also be that the notion of a blue moon is related to the Purkinje effect. The effect is described as:
"Peak luminance sensitivity of the human eye to shift toward the *blue* end of the color spectrum at low illumination levels." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purkinje_effect
Film production sometimes uses dark blue filters to simulate night filming. The result looks natural because of the Purkinje effect I guess.
Janburse ( talk) 17:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
The French version of this article claims that there is another phenomenon called "Blue Moon" in which the moon actually becomes blue during an eclipse under extremely rare circumstances (the Earth being extremely cold would send back blue light to the moon instead of the more common infrared that turn the moon to red). It also claims that Confucius mentions one such moon as "icy looking". Does anyone know about this? I couldn't find any other information on the web about it, and it is also not mentioned in other languages on Wikipedia (at least not in the German, Spanish, Italian, Russian and Portugese ones). It would be interesting to get more information from a real historian/scientist on this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.9.13.133 ( talk) 13:12, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
It's important to note that there is more than one farmers almanac and we shouldn't confuse them. The one that started the confusion in the 40's with a Sky and Telescope writer is the "Maine Farmers Almanac". That should not be confused with either the "Farmers Almanac" or the "Old Farmers Almanac" which are different publications.-- RadioFan ( talk) 22:16, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I have done some searching (Middle English, Old English, Anglo-Saxon, Scots), and can't find a pre-20th century etymology that gives "belewe" as an origin for "blue". The closest is "blæwe". Nor can I find "belewe" as having the meaning "betrayer". The closest is "bewray". I can't find the quote "If they say the moon is belewe [blue] / We must believe that it is true." in a pre-twentieth century source. The reference [3] cites the first part of the quote "Rede me and be not wrothe", but I don't find the alleged second part "If they say the moon is belewe [blue] / We must believe that it is true." 96.54.42.226 ( talk) 03:50, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
The objection by 96.54.42.226 has not been answered. Does someone have enough knowledge to give an answer? Zaslav ( talk) 05:26, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Sorry re my recent knee jerk delete in the lead. So many times people have tried to edit the seasonal blue moon out that I have grown careless and just assume they are wrong. The edit was an improvement. Sorry... Gandydancer ( talk) 13:36, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
"According to Google Calculator, "once in a blue moon" is equal to 1.16699016 × 10-8 hertz."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.171.11.242 ( talk • contribs) 10:46, 8 February 2014 UTC
Can someone tell me why it called a blue moon? Liana05omg ( talk) 02:37, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
I find it interesting that the church calculates a rather complex array of months where they need to insert an extra month (moon month) to make everything else fit. I am deleting my earlier text asking where it all fit with blue moons.
"The extra months commenced on 3 December (year 2), 2 September (year 5), 6 March (year 8), 4 December (year 10), 2 November (year 13), 2 August (year 16), and 5 March (year 19)" (from the Computus entry).
All their observations which came to the 19 year formula and placing of moons had to originally come from observances of moon timings and winter/summer solstices, approximated into the computus.
Now to work out what the church called their extra moons Greg ( talk) 05:36, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
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How can a blue moon be on the first of the month ever?
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
157.248.100.53 (
talk) 22:35, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Surely these dates are incorrect?
2018: January 2 and 31, only in time zones west of UTC+11.
2018: March 2 and 31, only in time zones west of UTC+12. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
124.169.112.121 (
talk)
04:16, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
There have been at least two rather unsatisfactory discussions above on this topic (
here and
here), going back at least as far as 2008. Until I amended it just now, our article had a relatively lengthy but deeply misleading paragraph on the subject, seemingly backed by 3 reliable sources. In fact two of these sources (
here and
here) seemingly made no mention of Blue Moon, let alone Betrayer Moon, and the third (
here) simply repeated a speculation without mentioning that its originator had already admitted it was completely wrong. Our article then added much that was not in that source, as well as another related deeply implausible unsourced speculation later in the section (Old English disappeared in the 12th century, so there is no reason to think it likely that anti-clerical writers around 1528 knew anything about Old English words, still less that they would expect their readers to know such words). I have tried to fix all this as best I can, tho others may well do a better job than I have. I have also considered removing all mention of the speculation, but that would leave a fiction partly created by us circulating out there uncorrected, without any real attempt by us to undo the harm that we had done by presenting the correct facts to the readers whom we had previously helped to mislead. (Indeed a part of me would like to say in the article that Wikipedia had contributed to the problem, but in the past I've found that such admissions tend to get at least one such admission eventually got removed for various reasons, possibly rightly so).
Tlhslobus (
talk)
11:06, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
This article is very biased towards American usage. I expect my edits to be reverted by Americans, but the contents of the article constitute the third definition in the OED Third Edition updated March 2013. Can we not have a less biased article that gives equal weight to the OED's definition 1: "A moon (real, depicted, or imagined) that appears blue. On rare occasions the moon can appear distinctly blue owing to the presence of smoke or dust particles in the atmosphere"? Dbfirs 07:49, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Under books there is a citation required for the statement "Note that if two full moons fall within the same astrological sign they will fall in different calendar months, and vice versa." Is there a need to find a source that states the astrological signs change about the 21st of each month and the lunar cycle is ~28 days? The offset between the calendar month and the astrological cycle can never include 2 full moons. Brian (Shadowfoot) ( talk) 11:25, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Putting this link here for later. The article needs to have the uncited speculation stripped out and some actual references put in. It seems at the very least that evidence of the proverb usage predates the evidence of the calendar usage... So three sections: Proverb Astronomy Calendar
https://wordhistories.net/2017/06/21/once-in-a-blue-moon-origin/
Jmackaerospace ( talk) 02:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
I removed the Popular culture section because none of the topics mentioned had anything to do with the scientific term blue moon. I was reverted saying I needed to allow time for improvements. It was tagged over a year ago--that seems to be enough time for needed work to be done. For example in the song "Blue Moon of Kentucky" with Monroe singing, "Blue moon of Kentucky keep on shinning, shine on the one whose gone and left me blue"--what does that have to do with the scientific term? Sectionworker ( talk) 16:42, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
The English use of"in a Blue Moon", seems to date from no later than 1821, Real Life in London by Pierce Egan.
See https://www.theidioms.com/once-in-a-blue-moon/ cited in this article.
So is unlikely to have anything to do with a provincial journal, first published in 1819. 86.161.210.123 ( talk) 00:07, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
The OED has an extensive entry for "blue moon", and I've added this at the start of the article. A lot of what follows in the article is now repetitive and redundant, in some cases inaccurate, and needs to be shortened or removed. Cheeselymoon ( talk) 14:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)