![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Possible violation of Wikipedia policy http://www.victorianweb.org/genre/hader1.html It seems to me that this article was lifted basically verbatim from the website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.159.133.191 ( talk) 21:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
While there are a great many examples on the English version of this page, perhaps someone could translate the German edition of this page (considering this is a German word) to provide more information about the topic?
Also-- I've never read this, but I believe it is a good example-- would Shakespeare's As You Like It be a good example?
Would The Bell Jar be considered a Bildungsroman?
I tried to remove it but could not. "Edit this page" does not reveal this text anywhere.
I have drastically altered the content of this article.
It consisted of one short paragraph defining bildungsroman, looking like a Wiktionary definition, followed by about two dozen examples and yet two dozen further "more contemporary" examples. I added a couple more myself, and then added the "Film" section.
Thinking about it, I soon realised that the article was getting overwhelmed by the examples. Instead of being illustrations of the genre, they were rapidly turning the page into listings of contributors' favorites. On reflection, it seemed best to reduce the number dramatically. Four per section appeared to be a reasonable number. However, I certainly did not wish to merely erase other people's work. So I created two subsidiary articles, moved the lists there, and added the links. I left the film list at six because it made no sense to create an extention list for just two items.
Considerations and recommendations:
B00P 02:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Firstly, Bildungsroman is specifically defined as a novel, stretched perhaps in the case of Kafka to a short story. Der Roman is German for novel after all. As such, I find it a bit of a misapplication of the term to add a film section. However, I'd definitely like to get more opinions on this. Or, if we do include a film section, why not a drama section?
Secondly, I think some effort should be made to distinguish in the article (and its appendices) whether a novel chronicling the simultaneous development of more than one person should be considered a bildungsroman. Technically, I would say no; a bildungsroman is traditionally limited to the development of one character who dominates the entire novel. As such, the Harry Potter series and War and Peace ought to be left off, as should The Seven Samurai and Star Wars, regardless of whether the film list stays or goes. Or else we should throw in just about anything that has a character or characters developing—Lord of the Rings, for instance.
I personally think we should make every effort to keep the definition of bildungsroman and its examples as narrow and specific as possible. This will insure clarity and prevent dilution of the term into some meaningless notion of some character learning something at some point in some story.
Andrewseal 04:36, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
B00P, I feel you didn't really understand my point about The Seven Samurai and Star Wars. It's not that they don't have a character developing in them, it's that this development is merely a facet of the work, not the whole thing as it is in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man or in The Magic Mountain. Saving the galaxy is a pretty big part of the Star Wars saga, and while it coincides with Luke's maturation, there is still an enormous amount of content aside from such "education." I feel that using this type of work, which has its focus scattered around many different characters and many different issues, dilutes the understanding of what a bildungsroman is. And I don't care if young readers are wholly unfamiliar with our examples; if they're bright enough to look up bildungsroman, they'll probably be inquisitive enough to look up our examples.
I think adding this movie is stretching things quite a bit. -- DanielCD 01:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
There are a great many poor examples, as well as non-examples, on these "Bildungsroman" pages and lists. This entire things needs an overhaul, as the entire point of it is being missed. -- DanielCD 14:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I just came to this page because I wanted to be certain I knew what a Bildungsroman was. I thought it was about the moral development of a character, regardless of their age. (Apparently not.) Back to the Future -- especially the second and third parts -- is definitely one. I seriously question Treasure Island, which is principally an adventure story. The 1951 Disney movie comes closer to being a Bildungsroman, as Jim has significant moral issues to work through. WilliamSommerwerck ( talk) 14:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
How about adding the novel Invisible Man to the list? I can argue that this is a fairly good example -- BorisFromStockdale 02:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone here support Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire as a Bildungsroman? The series thus far has both old/young protagonists, and contains little of maturing or growth for most of them, with about one exception. I don't feel it belongs in this category. Anyone agree?
Why is it that the book/novel examples were split out and then excised from this article, and the films (many of which are not good examples) are left in as the primary examples? If anything, this should be reversed, but I'm more inclined to re-include bildungsroman examples from books and films that can be cited as such in this article, and redirect the two book articles here. Please comment or note any objections to such a course of action. -- nae' blis 17:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I teach a class on the Bildungsroman; very few people agree on what exactly is one or isn't one--as this discussion indicates, you can really get bogged down arguing about whether something is or isn't. For example, the definition from Buckley on the page doesn't describe a ton of novels that are typically considered examples of the genre. I like the lists and discussions about particular items as a means to provoke thought, but maybe we should assume that it really is a loose and baggy genre and no definition is going to nail down all possible examples. Klbrewer 22:35, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
A Bildungsroman is not just a book with teenage characters. Therefore, I removed catcher in the rye, riddley walker and lord of the flies (as well as some random japanese TV show). All of which take place over a couple of days to a month or so.
P.S. Harry Potter is definetly a Bildungsroman as the character grow up quite a bit during the course of the novels —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maverick starstrider ( talk • contribs) 21:23, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I agree Harry Potter is a bildungsroman but why use the FILM as an example when when this is a concept for a novel? If one is looking for film examples to expand the genre would it not be better to find ones that were not extremely popular books first as examples? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
98.240.211.227 (
talk)
05:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Salman Rushdie's award winning novel pictures the birth life and growth of Saleem Sinai juxtaposed dexterously with that of his motherland India. Although the Buildungsroman streak in the novel hides under the obfuscating veneer of magical realism it definitely is something that can't be denied.The character from the beginning displays nonconformance with the social status quo. As he grows along with his motherland (both of them born at the same time) the novel portrays how the society and the world objurgate and chastise him and finallly defeat him.Definitely this novel can be added to the genre Buildungsroman. Olipou.kk ( talk) 06:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)Parvathi
List of examples within genres are very dangerous. The more I see them, the more I note this fact. None of the examples provide references to support their inclusion into this category, so I can only infer that all additions have taken place through the act of Synthesis, a specific type of Original Research. I propose blanking out the list and only allowing the addition of notable entries that are explicitly described by Reliable Sources as being representitive of the Bildungsroman or "coming of age story" genre.
Actually, I don't really wanna blank the list entirely. I'd like to find sources for one or two titles and properly reference them as examples of how to add entries, and then just monitor the list thereafter. Comments? - Verdatum ( talk) 19:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
That sounds like an excellent idea. The list as it stands is little short of monstrous and that's the best proposal I've heard to keep it reasonable. Hubacelgrand ( talk) 00:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I am going to put "citation needed" by most all of them, and if there is no source posted for calling the novel in question a Bildungsroman within a couple of months, I propose that the unsourced ones be deleted Softlavender ( talk) 04:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
This cannot be too strongly stated in my opinion. A Coming-of-age story details the singular event in puberty or adolescence which brings the protagonist into near-adulthood, or adult realization. (Example: To Kill a Mockingbird.) That's why the term "Coming of age" means to come into a position of post-childhood awareness or maturity. This can happen as early as, say, 11 or 12 or 13 (as in a Bar Mitzvah tradition), or as late as teenage years or later (as in the traditions of becoming of "legal age" or "age of consent" or "age of majority"). Bildungsromans, on the other hand, address the entire life cycle, from childhood to late adulthood, and show the gradual, massive changes which occur as the protagonist grows in strength and experience and fulfills his life destiny, reaching wisdom, maturity, insight, good judgment, strength, skill, and strength of position in society. (Examples: David Copperfield, Great Expectations, The Red and the Black, Wilhelm Meister.) Bildung means education, and a Bildungsroman is about a self-made person, one who is self-educated by his experiences, grows through them, and in later years becomes a mature beacon of wisdom and insight — a master.
Please don't confuse the two genres. That's why the two genres have two different names! Any book in which the protagonist is still 21 or younger at the end is NOT a Bildungsroman. Softlavender ( talk) 02:55, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I notice that this article's " Examples" section is arranged mostly (there are exceptions) in alphabetical order by title of work. That is one way of listing examples. Another is in alphabetical order by authors' last names, as in the " Bildungsroman examples (pre-1930)" article. The " Bildungsroman examples (post-1930)" article has ordered them in alphabetical order by authors' first names. Yet another way of ordering that comes to mind is in chronological order by date of publication. I personally would favor placing examples in chronological order. Does anyone else have thoughts about this? Nihil novi ( talk) 23:32, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I've rearranged the list of examples, into chronological order. Nihil novi ( talk) 07:42, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
An editor altered the originator of the term in this edit changing it from an entry that had an article to a redlink. The fact was properly referenced to a German article online. Is there any reason to believe that the later edit is any more likely to be accurate than mine? A quote from this second reference in question would help. I expect these people are one and the same. For the time being, I'm reverting. - Verdatum ( talk) 22:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
The novel sort of shows how children must grow up and ultimately face an enemy from their past, the whole growing up theme I believe should classify IT as a bildungsroman. or would that just be something similar, being such a violent book?-- 72.71.251.182 ( talk) 21:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
The intent of the "examples" section is to give strong, and well agreed upon instances of the genre. When I review updates to the list, I will generally Google the title, author, and "bildungsroman" and see what comes up. If things like enotes and sparknotes come up declaring it a bildungsroman, then I will generally add the reference and let it remain. If I find nothing reliable, or merely some blog posts declaring a work bildungsroman, I will delete it. If I find reviews that state it merely has "characteristics of a bildungsroman" I will delete it. If the work is about magical hero characters (e.g. Harry Potter), or "chosen ones", I will delete it. I don't care how many sources refer to it as a bildungsroman, because the article currently explicitly defines these as outside the genre. And, as a result of a previous discussion, if it is not an actual novel, I will delete it. If the novel doesn't currently have a Wikipedia article, I'll either create a stub article if I see evidence of notability, or I'll probably remove the entry, because it's likely a minor work that lacks the critical acclaim needed to consider it a select example of the genre. - Verdatum ( talk) 16:44, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't the poem There was a Child Went Forth by Walt Whitman be added?-- 96.8.131.136 ( talk) 01:20, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
Almost all novels by Chaim Potok could be considered bildungsromans, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceplm ( talk • contribs) 00:12, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
The Bildungsroman (German pronunciation: [ˈbɪldʊŋs.ʁoˌmaːn]; German: "education novel") is a term coined in literary criticism,[1] which purportedly defines a genre of the novel which focuses on the psychological and moral[citation needed] growth of the protagonist from youth to adulthood,[2] and in which character change is thus extremely important
Why is "purportedly" used in the above sentence? Abenr ( talk) 04:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
There is no better example in English of the Bildungsroman than Samuel Butler's 1903 novel,"The Way of All Flesh." It should be added to the list. Abenr ( talk) 04:55, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
The first Bildungsroman wasn't Goethe's 'Wilhelm Meister' but rather Wieland's 'Geschichte des Agathon' (History of Agathon), published in 1766/1767. 77.8.20.114 ( talk) 19:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I'm working with OCLC, and we are algorithmically generating data about different Genres, like notable Authors, Book, Movies, Subjects, Characters and Places. We have determined that this Wikipedia page has a close affintity to our detected Genere of bildungsromans. It might be useful to look at [1] for more information. Thanks. Maximilianklein ( talk) 23:00, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I've closed this: there is no consensus here on mergeing these articles. Swanny18 ( talk) 13:44, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
I suggest either that Bildungsroman and Coming-of-age film be merged into one article, Coming-of-age story, or that the topic of "coming-of-age story/novel" be extricated from the Bildungsroman article (the lede says "coming-of-age story" is a synonym for Bildungsroman, but then goes on to distinguish to two terms in the History section) and merged with Coming-of-age film to make an article, Coming-of-age story, that is separate from Bildungsroman. I prefer the first option, since they are all three related (Bildungsroman being a subgenre of coming-of-age novel) and together in one article would give a more comprehensive treatment to the subject, and so that what I've done with Coming-of-age story for now.
If this is accepted, then this talk page should be moved to Coming-of-age story. — the Man in Question (in question) 23:46, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
I like burritos. It is my story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.49.247.128 ( talk) 08:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
P.S. How about looking up and adding the ref Marianne Hirsch, "The Novel of Formation as Genre"? (Right now I've created a missing redirect, '
Novel of formation'.)
Staszek Lem (
talk)
17:50, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
P.P.S. Also, instead of focussing on merging, how about expanding them both? There are plenty of serious references, but our articles are rather simple. Staszek Lem ( talk) 17:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Seven of the first nine refs seem to link to the Bibliography list, but it does not work (clicking on the highlighted text does not bring one down to the author and text in the Bibliography list). I have seen this done effectively in other articles, where the Bibliography items are referenced often by page number, allowing the Reference in the list to be just an author and page number. However, I have not mastered that style of referencing in Wikipedia, doing the html, so I cannot see readily what is missing. Either that approach needs to be made to work, or the references can be done as cite book format, picking up the pertinent information from the Bibliography entry. Hoping someone knows how to do first method correctly. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 17:43, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Possible violation of Wikipedia policy http://www.victorianweb.org/genre/hader1.html It seems to me that this article was lifted basically verbatim from the website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.159.133.191 ( talk) 21:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
While there are a great many examples on the English version of this page, perhaps someone could translate the German edition of this page (considering this is a German word) to provide more information about the topic?
Also-- I've never read this, but I believe it is a good example-- would Shakespeare's As You Like It be a good example?
Would The Bell Jar be considered a Bildungsroman?
I tried to remove it but could not. "Edit this page" does not reveal this text anywhere.
I have drastically altered the content of this article.
It consisted of one short paragraph defining bildungsroman, looking like a Wiktionary definition, followed by about two dozen examples and yet two dozen further "more contemporary" examples. I added a couple more myself, and then added the "Film" section.
Thinking about it, I soon realised that the article was getting overwhelmed by the examples. Instead of being illustrations of the genre, they were rapidly turning the page into listings of contributors' favorites. On reflection, it seemed best to reduce the number dramatically. Four per section appeared to be a reasonable number. However, I certainly did not wish to merely erase other people's work. So I created two subsidiary articles, moved the lists there, and added the links. I left the film list at six because it made no sense to create an extention list for just two items.
Considerations and recommendations:
B00P 02:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Firstly, Bildungsroman is specifically defined as a novel, stretched perhaps in the case of Kafka to a short story. Der Roman is German for novel after all. As such, I find it a bit of a misapplication of the term to add a film section. However, I'd definitely like to get more opinions on this. Or, if we do include a film section, why not a drama section?
Secondly, I think some effort should be made to distinguish in the article (and its appendices) whether a novel chronicling the simultaneous development of more than one person should be considered a bildungsroman. Technically, I would say no; a bildungsroman is traditionally limited to the development of one character who dominates the entire novel. As such, the Harry Potter series and War and Peace ought to be left off, as should The Seven Samurai and Star Wars, regardless of whether the film list stays or goes. Or else we should throw in just about anything that has a character or characters developing—Lord of the Rings, for instance.
I personally think we should make every effort to keep the definition of bildungsroman and its examples as narrow and specific as possible. This will insure clarity and prevent dilution of the term into some meaningless notion of some character learning something at some point in some story.
Andrewseal 04:36, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
B00P, I feel you didn't really understand my point about The Seven Samurai and Star Wars. It's not that they don't have a character developing in them, it's that this development is merely a facet of the work, not the whole thing as it is in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man or in The Magic Mountain. Saving the galaxy is a pretty big part of the Star Wars saga, and while it coincides with Luke's maturation, there is still an enormous amount of content aside from such "education." I feel that using this type of work, which has its focus scattered around many different characters and many different issues, dilutes the understanding of what a bildungsroman is. And I don't care if young readers are wholly unfamiliar with our examples; if they're bright enough to look up bildungsroman, they'll probably be inquisitive enough to look up our examples.
I think adding this movie is stretching things quite a bit. -- DanielCD 01:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
There are a great many poor examples, as well as non-examples, on these "Bildungsroman" pages and lists. This entire things needs an overhaul, as the entire point of it is being missed. -- DanielCD 14:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I just came to this page because I wanted to be certain I knew what a Bildungsroman was. I thought it was about the moral development of a character, regardless of their age. (Apparently not.) Back to the Future -- especially the second and third parts -- is definitely one. I seriously question Treasure Island, which is principally an adventure story. The 1951 Disney movie comes closer to being a Bildungsroman, as Jim has significant moral issues to work through. WilliamSommerwerck ( talk) 14:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
How about adding the novel Invisible Man to the list? I can argue that this is a fairly good example -- BorisFromStockdale 02:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone here support Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire as a Bildungsroman? The series thus far has both old/young protagonists, and contains little of maturing or growth for most of them, with about one exception. I don't feel it belongs in this category. Anyone agree?
Why is it that the book/novel examples were split out and then excised from this article, and the films (many of which are not good examples) are left in as the primary examples? If anything, this should be reversed, but I'm more inclined to re-include bildungsroman examples from books and films that can be cited as such in this article, and redirect the two book articles here. Please comment or note any objections to such a course of action. -- nae' blis 17:42, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I teach a class on the Bildungsroman; very few people agree on what exactly is one or isn't one--as this discussion indicates, you can really get bogged down arguing about whether something is or isn't. For example, the definition from Buckley on the page doesn't describe a ton of novels that are typically considered examples of the genre. I like the lists and discussions about particular items as a means to provoke thought, but maybe we should assume that it really is a loose and baggy genre and no definition is going to nail down all possible examples. Klbrewer 22:35, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
A Bildungsroman is not just a book with teenage characters. Therefore, I removed catcher in the rye, riddley walker and lord of the flies (as well as some random japanese TV show). All of which take place over a couple of days to a month or so.
P.S. Harry Potter is definetly a Bildungsroman as the character grow up quite a bit during the course of the novels —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maverick starstrider ( talk • contribs) 21:23, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I agree Harry Potter is a bildungsroman but why use the FILM as an example when when this is a concept for a novel? If one is looking for film examples to expand the genre would it not be better to find ones that were not extremely popular books first as examples? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
98.240.211.227 (
talk)
05:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Salman Rushdie's award winning novel pictures the birth life and growth of Saleem Sinai juxtaposed dexterously with that of his motherland India. Although the Buildungsroman streak in the novel hides under the obfuscating veneer of magical realism it definitely is something that can't be denied.The character from the beginning displays nonconformance with the social status quo. As he grows along with his motherland (both of them born at the same time) the novel portrays how the society and the world objurgate and chastise him and finallly defeat him.Definitely this novel can be added to the genre Buildungsroman. Olipou.kk ( talk) 06:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)Parvathi
List of examples within genres are very dangerous. The more I see them, the more I note this fact. None of the examples provide references to support their inclusion into this category, so I can only infer that all additions have taken place through the act of Synthesis, a specific type of Original Research. I propose blanking out the list and only allowing the addition of notable entries that are explicitly described by Reliable Sources as being representitive of the Bildungsroman or "coming of age story" genre.
Actually, I don't really wanna blank the list entirely. I'd like to find sources for one or two titles and properly reference them as examples of how to add entries, and then just monitor the list thereafter. Comments? - Verdatum ( talk) 19:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
That sounds like an excellent idea. The list as it stands is little short of monstrous and that's the best proposal I've heard to keep it reasonable. Hubacelgrand ( talk) 00:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I am going to put "citation needed" by most all of them, and if there is no source posted for calling the novel in question a Bildungsroman within a couple of months, I propose that the unsourced ones be deleted Softlavender ( talk) 04:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
This cannot be too strongly stated in my opinion. A Coming-of-age story details the singular event in puberty or adolescence which brings the protagonist into near-adulthood, or adult realization. (Example: To Kill a Mockingbird.) That's why the term "Coming of age" means to come into a position of post-childhood awareness or maturity. This can happen as early as, say, 11 or 12 or 13 (as in a Bar Mitzvah tradition), or as late as teenage years or later (as in the traditions of becoming of "legal age" or "age of consent" or "age of majority"). Bildungsromans, on the other hand, address the entire life cycle, from childhood to late adulthood, and show the gradual, massive changes which occur as the protagonist grows in strength and experience and fulfills his life destiny, reaching wisdom, maturity, insight, good judgment, strength, skill, and strength of position in society. (Examples: David Copperfield, Great Expectations, The Red and the Black, Wilhelm Meister.) Bildung means education, and a Bildungsroman is about a self-made person, one who is self-educated by his experiences, grows through them, and in later years becomes a mature beacon of wisdom and insight — a master.
Please don't confuse the two genres. That's why the two genres have two different names! Any book in which the protagonist is still 21 or younger at the end is NOT a Bildungsroman. Softlavender ( talk) 02:55, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I notice that this article's " Examples" section is arranged mostly (there are exceptions) in alphabetical order by title of work. That is one way of listing examples. Another is in alphabetical order by authors' last names, as in the " Bildungsroman examples (pre-1930)" article. The " Bildungsroman examples (post-1930)" article has ordered them in alphabetical order by authors' first names. Yet another way of ordering that comes to mind is in chronological order by date of publication. I personally would favor placing examples in chronological order. Does anyone else have thoughts about this? Nihil novi ( talk) 23:32, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I've rearranged the list of examples, into chronological order. Nihil novi ( talk) 07:42, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
An editor altered the originator of the term in this edit changing it from an entry that had an article to a redlink. The fact was properly referenced to a German article online. Is there any reason to believe that the later edit is any more likely to be accurate than mine? A quote from this second reference in question would help. I expect these people are one and the same. For the time being, I'm reverting. - Verdatum ( talk) 22:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
The novel sort of shows how children must grow up and ultimately face an enemy from their past, the whole growing up theme I believe should classify IT as a bildungsroman. or would that just be something similar, being such a violent book?-- 72.71.251.182 ( talk) 21:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
The intent of the "examples" section is to give strong, and well agreed upon instances of the genre. When I review updates to the list, I will generally Google the title, author, and "bildungsroman" and see what comes up. If things like enotes and sparknotes come up declaring it a bildungsroman, then I will generally add the reference and let it remain. If I find nothing reliable, or merely some blog posts declaring a work bildungsroman, I will delete it. If I find reviews that state it merely has "characteristics of a bildungsroman" I will delete it. If the work is about magical hero characters (e.g. Harry Potter), or "chosen ones", I will delete it. I don't care how many sources refer to it as a bildungsroman, because the article currently explicitly defines these as outside the genre. And, as a result of a previous discussion, if it is not an actual novel, I will delete it. If the novel doesn't currently have a Wikipedia article, I'll either create a stub article if I see evidence of notability, or I'll probably remove the entry, because it's likely a minor work that lacks the critical acclaim needed to consider it a select example of the genre. - Verdatum ( talk) 16:44, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't the poem There was a Child Went Forth by Walt Whitman be added?-- 96.8.131.136 ( talk) 01:20, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
Almost all novels by Chaim Potok could be considered bildungsromans, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceplm ( talk • contribs) 00:12, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
The Bildungsroman (German pronunciation: [ˈbɪldʊŋs.ʁoˌmaːn]; German: "education novel") is a term coined in literary criticism,[1] which purportedly defines a genre of the novel which focuses on the psychological and moral[citation needed] growth of the protagonist from youth to adulthood,[2] and in which character change is thus extremely important
Why is "purportedly" used in the above sentence? Abenr ( talk) 04:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
There is no better example in English of the Bildungsroman than Samuel Butler's 1903 novel,"The Way of All Flesh." It should be added to the list. Abenr ( talk) 04:55, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
The first Bildungsroman wasn't Goethe's 'Wilhelm Meister' but rather Wieland's 'Geschichte des Agathon' (History of Agathon), published in 1766/1767. 77.8.20.114 ( talk) 19:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I'm working with OCLC, and we are algorithmically generating data about different Genres, like notable Authors, Book, Movies, Subjects, Characters and Places. We have determined that this Wikipedia page has a close affintity to our detected Genere of bildungsromans. It might be useful to look at [1] for more information. Thanks. Maximilianklein ( talk) 23:00, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I've closed this: there is no consensus here on mergeing these articles. Swanny18 ( talk) 13:44, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
I suggest either that Bildungsroman and Coming-of-age film be merged into one article, Coming-of-age story, or that the topic of "coming-of-age story/novel" be extricated from the Bildungsroman article (the lede says "coming-of-age story" is a synonym for Bildungsroman, but then goes on to distinguish to two terms in the History section) and merged with Coming-of-age film to make an article, Coming-of-age story, that is separate from Bildungsroman. I prefer the first option, since they are all three related (Bildungsroman being a subgenre of coming-of-age novel) and together in one article would give a more comprehensive treatment to the subject, and so that what I've done with Coming-of-age story for now.
If this is accepted, then this talk page should be moved to Coming-of-age story. — the Man in Question (in question) 23:46, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
I like burritos. It is my story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.49.247.128 ( talk) 08:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
P.S. How about looking up and adding the ref Marianne Hirsch, "The Novel of Formation as Genre"? (Right now I've created a missing redirect, '
Novel of formation'.)
Staszek Lem (
talk)
17:50, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
P.P.S. Also, instead of focussing on merging, how about expanding them both? There are plenty of serious references, but our articles are rather simple. Staszek Lem ( talk) 17:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Seven of the first nine refs seem to link to the Bibliography list, but it does not work (clicking on the highlighted text does not bring one down to the author and text in the Bibliography list). I have seen this done effectively in other articles, where the Bibliography items are referenced often by page number, allowing the Reference in the list to be just an author and page number. However, I have not mastered that style of referencing in Wikipedia, doing the html, so I cannot see readily what is missing. Either that approach needs to be made to work, or the references can be done as cite book format, picking up the pertinent information from the Bibliography entry. Hoping someone knows how to do first method correctly. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 17:43, 27 March 2015 (UTC)