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I've removed the References needed tag from the article. Please put it back if you think there's not been enough improvement Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 11:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
It says that after his 1951 tour in Europe, Broonzy toured with famous people, including Lead Belly. I find this hard to believe, since Lead Belly died in 1949. What's the reference?
I've done a lot of work on the Life and career section. I've pretty much been leaving the bits I've not used kind of drifting to the bottom of the article. as a consequence it's starting to look a real mess. I did try to write a referenced intro to the section. I have memory of seeing Eric clapton on some TV program talking about Big bill broonzy. In the program he was noting that while he is associated with the songs of R. Johnson it was realy the playing of Broonzy and the impact of seeing him perform live when Eric was a young teenager that realy motivated him to want to learn the blues in the first place. Does anyone out there in wikiland recall such a thing? maybe have it on DVD? Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 11:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I replaced the link to Jimmie Rodgers (country musician) with one to Jimmy Rogers (blues musician). I thought it's more likely that it was Rogers who influenced Broonzy. Does anyone know which is correct? Zariane ( talk) 12:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm guessing it's Jimmie rodgers who was his influence Not Jimmy. Check Jimmy's birth date to see why. If you think that makes sense. I'ld revert the edit. Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 07:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
The "discography" is just a list of album reissues. Isn't there a proper discography that could be linked, showing actual release dates?
Look in Blues & gospel records, 1890-1943 Dixon, Robert M. W.. It's been years since I've seen a copy and it's pricy as hell but it is as complete as possible and would certainly have the information for a major artist like Broonzy. If it's not under copyright, would it be acceptable to copy the listing into this entry with accreditation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.72.244.157 ( talk) 16:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
I took out the specific reference to the film version of this, just to be on the safe side, as I can't find it in any film reference or book about Louis Armstrong. It is likely Broonzy had a small part in the musical of that year of that name (which had a huge cast). He is not listed as a cast member on IMD, however. If someone can find a reference to a film or fragment of a film of Seldes' Broadway musical, they can put the reference back. It would be fascinating to see this if a print still exists (or ever existed). Mballen ( talk) 06:16, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
The statement in the section Early Years that Broonzy was " working his own land as a sharecropper" is inconsistent. By definition a sharecropper is a type of tenant farmer - he doesn't own the land. The book The Country Blues by Samuel Charters mentions on p. 177 that Broonzy did sharecropping in 1916, so I will correct the statement. -- Blainster ( talk) 20:12, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
If 1903 is the commonly assumed birth date, he should have been about 12 years old in 1915. Is that plausible with "Broonzy was married and working as a sharecropper"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.82.85.39 ( talk) 22:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
If the 1903 birthdate is correct, some of the other information in the article must be incorrect - such as him marrying by 1915. Views, anyone? Ghmyrtle ( talk) 10:41, 18 October 2011 (UTC)Despite years of research, the details of William Lee Conley Broonzy's birth date remain problematic. He may have been born on 26 June 1893 - the date of birth he often gave - or according to Bill's twin sister Laney, it may have been in 1898. Laney claimed to have documents to prove that. However, definitive research undertaken by Bob Reisman has changed the picture. Bill often regaled audiences with tales of his birth on 26 June 1893 and that of his twin sister Laney and of his father's response to being told he had twins to care for. He claimed to have served in the US Army in France from 1918 - 1919 and to have been invited by a record company to travel to the Delta following a major flood in 1927: Turns out, that a good deal of this was fiction at worst and faction at best. Robert Reisman's impeccable research suggests a birth date for Bill of 26th June 1903 (and in Jefferson County, Arkansas, not Scott Mississippi as previously suggested). Laney was not a twin at all but four years older than Bill. (She was born in 1898). Bill spoke and sang about experiences in the US army and of his return from France to Arkansas/Mississippi. It turns out though, that the reported army experience was Bill's factional description of an amalgam of the stories told by black soldiers returning from overseas. A trip Bill claimed to have made to Mississippi in 1927 to the flooding was similarly untrue, but was a factional account into which Bill inserted himself...... Between 1912 and 1917, Bill (Lee) worked as an itinerant preacher in and around Pine Bluff. It is not known why he changed his name.
1903 just seems completely unrealistic and I've never had the impression that it was the "Commonly assumed" date, there is to much to contradict it. When I originally did a a big reworking of this article I went with 1898 citing Stambler et al. If you follow the refrences now it looks like Stambler claims 1903 when in fact it does not. I don't know about Reisman's work and would be interested to see if any other researches back it up. Meanwhile I would stick with the way I originally set out the article, noting the disputed birth date and going with his sisters account. They were twins and so presumably had the same birth date ;-). (granted maybe his sister preferred to disguise her own true age and adopted the later date ;-) ) Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 06:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
This debate has emerged again. The fact is that both the sources cited in the opening sentence - Eagle & LeBlanc, and Reisman - give his likely birth year as 1903. If we want to change the date, we need to use different sources. But, generally, I'm confident that Eagle & LeBlanc is the most reliable source on these matters, irrespective of what a gravestone might say. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 20:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Source: An American Prayer: Big Bill Broonzy - All The Classic Sides 1928-1937. See also Allmusic "I Can't Be Satisfied" Big Bill Broonzy with music sample. I'm not very knowledgeable about blues and don't know whether he recorded additional versions.
I do know a thing or two about old country, and this song was covered by "King of Western Swing" Bob Wills as the B-side of "Wang Wang Blues" (Vocalion 03173, released 3/1936) with songwriter credit "Willie Broonzy". I probably don't know enough about blues to say, but it seems to me that Hank Williams may have borrowed this tune for his songs "Move It On Over" and "Mind Your Own Business." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Preservationist957 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
I forgot something (besides signing): Did any artist record an instrumental version of "I Can't Be Satisfied"? I think I've heard one before. ("I Can't Be Satisfied" by Muddy Waters is an altogether different song.) Preservationist957 ( talk) 04:41, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I've had some edits reverted by an editor who objected to me changing the terms "Black" to "African-American". I evidently have to leave a note on the Talk Page before I make a RFC. So I dispute his "good faith" reverts and will seek advice from senior editors about this issue. Until then I'm going to revert his edits and remove the anachronism of a terminology that has no place in a 21st century encyclopedia. Please note that the terms I've changed are not direct quotes and are part of the general information given in this article.
Should be interesting to see what other Wikipedia editors think. Sluffs ( talk) 23:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Excuse me but I am a so-called "coloured" person. So unless you are yourself don't presume to tell me what I and my "black" or "mixed-race" friends find offensive or impolite. I don't like the use of that adjective to describe people. The fact that some African-Americans choose to describe themselves in those terms is not my concern. If Public Enemy want to release an album called "Fear Of A Black Planet" that's up to them and to me they are just as much to blame for racism as the Klan. If you use unclear differentiating terminology (and lets face it "black" and "white" are hardly precise terms to describe origin) regardless of the reasons then you've only yourself to blame when your children suffer racism. The so-called "Black Nationalism" of Malcolm X (though he late professed that he may himself have been wrong in thinking in such terms) is as disgusting to me as the Aryan views of the Nazis. Personally and especially in regards to the legacy of American slavery the terms need to be discarded and the correct technical terms need to be used. This may be simply a cultural disagreement with American editors as well as Caucasian European editors saying that the term is used freely in America (by both African-Americans and Caucasian-Americans) and elsewhere and I as a UK editor saying that we (as in non-Caucasian UK citizens) are doing are best on this fair isle to use a more concise and technical description of origin. This is not the 1940s; it is the year 2013. This in not the 1960s civil rights movement of a segregated American society; it is a 21st century encyclopedia with editors from all over the world. I have used the term "black" myself which I put down to the "self-fulfilling prophecy" theory of "if you hear something enough times then it will become a truism". I now make every effort to avoid such "wide and inaccurate" descriptions. The future is ours to shape - let that future not be dictated to us by the voices of the past. Sluffs ( talk) 16:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Please note that you were quite right to restore "he was told by a white man" because my edit had disrupted the context. Though I've changed it to "he was told by a Caucasian man". Sluffs ( talk) 16:31, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Just to leave you with one more example. Here's the second sentence I changed in the Broonzy article transposed to a fictional Ravi Shankar article:
"Through the ‘60s and ‘70s he successfully navigated a transition in style to a sound popular with working class brown audiences"
At least the term African-American tells the reader that the person is an American with African heritage though may not specify the actual shade of pigmentation. Not all things to do with language are "black and white".
Sluffs ( talk) 21:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
BTW America has its first mixed-race President. Sluffs ( talk) 22:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I found this discussion to be very interesting. I found it quite surprising that the user wanted to correct what he perceived was racist language ("black") only to inadvertently use so much more uncontroversially racist language ("Caucasian") himself. C.harrison1988 ( talk) 14:04, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I direct your attention to Big Bill Broonzy's date of death. Sequestered on the right side, in a box, the day he died is listed as August 14, 1958 but the article itself states Big Bill Broonzy died on August 15, 1958. Don't feel bad; if you go to the article for Alan Moulder you will see the same stupid mistake. If an article doesn't even agree with itself then why should the reader believe anything which is written in the article; it all becomes suspect. These kind of mistakes are the reasons why people criticize Wikipedia as worthless; DUMB mistakes which should be easily recognizable. The gatekeeper of this Wiki article has the ultimate responsibility for making sure that the information is correct and accurate, there should not be any contradictions and the information flows along chronologically. 184.76.56.97 ( talk)JSJR 01272014 —Preceding undated comment added 04:26, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
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In the third paragraph of "Style and Influence", I deleted the following sentence:
"the boy had even tried to scrub the black off his skin and made threats to kill himself"
as irrelevant and unnecessarily revealing of the misery of a nine-year-old child. Jwicklatz ( talk) 20:19, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2023 and 3 May 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Barnemj0 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Wilsole0 ( talk) 17:33, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Big Bill Broonzy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Revisions succeeding
this version of this article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:
|
I've removed the References needed tag from the article. Please put it back if you think there's not been enough improvement Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 11:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
It says that after his 1951 tour in Europe, Broonzy toured with famous people, including Lead Belly. I find this hard to believe, since Lead Belly died in 1949. What's the reference?
I've done a lot of work on the Life and career section. I've pretty much been leaving the bits I've not used kind of drifting to the bottom of the article. as a consequence it's starting to look a real mess. I did try to write a referenced intro to the section. I have memory of seeing Eric clapton on some TV program talking about Big bill broonzy. In the program he was noting that while he is associated with the songs of R. Johnson it was realy the playing of Broonzy and the impact of seeing him perform live when Eric was a young teenager that realy motivated him to want to learn the blues in the first place. Does anyone out there in wikiland recall such a thing? maybe have it on DVD? Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 11:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I replaced the link to Jimmie Rodgers (country musician) with one to Jimmy Rogers (blues musician). I thought it's more likely that it was Rogers who influenced Broonzy. Does anyone know which is correct? Zariane ( talk) 12:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm guessing it's Jimmie rodgers who was his influence Not Jimmy. Check Jimmy's birth date to see why. If you think that makes sense. I'ld revert the edit. Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 07:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
The "discography" is just a list of album reissues. Isn't there a proper discography that could be linked, showing actual release dates?
Look in Blues & gospel records, 1890-1943 Dixon, Robert M. W.. It's been years since I've seen a copy and it's pricy as hell but it is as complete as possible and would certainly have the information for a major artist like Broonzy. If it's not under copyright, would it be acceptable to copy the listing into this entry with accreditation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.72.244.157 ( talk) 16:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
I took out the specific reference to the film version of this, just to be on the safe side, as I can't find it in any film reference or book about Louis Armstrong. It is likely Broonzy had a small part in the musical of that year of that name (which had a huge cast). He is not listed as a cast member on IMD, however. If someone can find a reference to a film or fragment of a film of Seldes' Broadway musical, they can put the reference back. It would be fascinating to see this if a print still exists (or ever existed). Mballen ( talk) 06:16, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
The statement in the section Early Years that Broonzy was " working his own land as a sharecropper" is inconsistent. By definition a sharecropper is a type of tenant farmer - he doesn't own the land. The book The Country Blues by Samuel Charters mentions on p. 177 that Broonzy did sharecropping in 1916, so I will correct the statement. -- Blainster ( talk) 20:12, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
If 1903 is the commonly assumed birth date, he should have been about 12 years old in 1915. Is that plausible with "Broonzy was married and working as a sharecropper"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.82.85.39 ( talk) 22:09, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
If the 1903 birthdate is correct, some of the other information in the article must be incorrect - such as him marrying by 1915. Views, anyone? Ghmyrtle ( talk) 10:41, 18 October 2011 (UTC)Despite years of research, the details of William Lee Conley Broonzy's birth date remain problematic. He may have been born on 26 June 1893 - the date of birth he often gave - or according to Bill's twin sister Laney, it may have been in 1898. Laney claimed to have documents to prove that. However, definitive research undertaken by Bob Reisman has changed the picture. Bill often regaled audiences with tales of his birth on 26 June 1893 and that of his twin sister Laney and of his father's response to being told he had twins to care for. He claimed to have served in the US Army in France from 1918 - 1919 and to have been invited by a record company to travel to the Delta following a major flood in 1927: Turns out, that a good deal of this was fiction at worst and faction at best. Robert Reisman's impeccable research suggests a birth date for Bill of 26th June 1903 (and in Jefferson County, Arkansas, not Scott Mississippi as previously suggested). Laney was not a twin at all but four years older than Bill. (She was born in 1898). Bill spoke and sang about experiences in the US army and of his return from France to Arkansas/Mississippi. It turns out though, that the reported army experience was Bill's factional description of an amalgam of the stories told by black soldiers returning from overseas. A trip Bill claimed to have made to Mississippi in 1927 to the flooding was similarly untrue, but was a factional account into which Bill inserted himself...... Between 1912 and 1917, Bill (Lee) worked as an itinerant preacher in and around Pine Bluff. It is not known why he changed his name.
1903 just seems completely unrealistic and I've never had the impression that it was the "Commonly assumed" date, there is to much to contradict it. When I originally did a a big reworking of this article I went with 1898 citing Stambler et al. If you follow the refrences now it looks like Stambler claims 1903 when in fact it does not. I don't know about Reisman's work and would be interested to see if any other researches back it up. Meanwhile I would stick with the way I originally set out the article, noting the disputed birth date and going with his sisters account. They were twins and so presumably had the same birth date ;-). (granted maybe his sister preferred to disguise her own true age and adopted the later date ;-) ) Darrell Wheeler ( talk) 06:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
This debate has emerged again. The fact is that both the sources cited in the opening sentence - Eagle & LeBlanc, and Reisman - give his likely birth year as 1903. If we want to change the date, we need to use different sources. But, generally, I'm confident that Eagle & LeBlanc is the most reliable source on these matters, irrespective of what a gravestone might say. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 20:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Source: An American Prayer: Big Bill Broonzy - All The Classic Sides 1928-1937. See also Allmusic "I Can't Be Satisfied" Big Bill Broonzy with music sample. I'm not very knowledgeable about blues and don't know whether he recorded additional versions.
I do know a thing or two about old country, and this song was covered by "King of Western Swing" Bob Wills as the B-side of "Wang Wang Blues" (Vocalion 03173, released 3/1936) with songwriter credit "Willie Broonzy". I probably don't know enough about blues to say, but it seems to me that Hank Williams may have borrowed this tune for his songs "Move It On Over" and "Mind Your Own Business." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Preservationist957 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
I forgot something (besides signing): Did any artist record an instrumental version of "I Can't Be Satisfied"? I think I've heard one before. ("I Can't Be Satisfied" by Muddy Waters is an altogether different song.) Preservationist957 ( talk) 04:41, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
I've had some edits reverted by an editor who objected to me changing the terms "Black" to "African-American". I evidently have to leave a note on the Talk Page before I make a RFC. So I dispute his "good faith" reverts and will seek advice from senior editors about this issue. Until then I'm going to revert his edits and remove the anachronism of a terminology that has no place in a 21st century encyclopedia. Please note that the terms I've changed are not direct quotes and are part of the general information given in this article.
Should be interesting to see what other Wikipedia editors think. Sluffs ( talk) 23:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Excuse me but I am a so-called "coloured" person. So unless you are yourself don't presume to tell me what I and my "black" or "mixed-race" friends find offensive or impolite. I don't like the use of that adjective to describe people. The fact that some African-Americans choose to describe themselves in those terms is not my concern. If Public Enemy want to release an album called "Fear Of A Black Planet" that's up to them and to me they are just as much to blame for racism as the Klan. If you use unclear differentiating terminology (and lets face it "black" and "white" are hardly precise terms to describe origin) regardless of the reasons then you've only yourself to blame when your children suffer racism. The so-called "Black Nationalism" of Malcolm X (though he late professed that he may himself have been wrong in thinking in such terms) is as disgusting to me as the Aryan views of the Nazis. Personally and especially in regards to the legacy of American slavery the terms need to be discarded and the correct technical terms need to be used. This may be simply a cultural disagreement with American editors as well as Caucasian European editors saying that the term is used freely in America (by both African-Americans and Caucasian-Americans) and elsewhere and I as a UK editor saying that we (as in non-Caucasian UK citizens) are doing are best on this fair isle to use a more concise and technical description of origin. This is not the 1940s; it is the year 2013. This in not the 1960s civil rights movement of a segregated American society; it is a 21st century encyclopedia with editors from all over the world. I have used the term "black" myself which I put down to the "self-fulfilling prophecy" theory of "if you hear something enough times then it will become a truism". I now make every effort to avoid such "wide and inaccurate" descriptions. The future is ours to shape - let that future not be dictated to us by the voices of the past. Sluffs ( talk) 16:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Please note that you were quite right to restore "he was told by a white man" because my edit had disrupted the context. Though I've changed it to "he was told by a Caucasian man". Sluffs ( talk) 16:31, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Just to leave you with one more example. Here's the second sentence I changed in the Broonzy article transposed to a fictional Ravi Shankar article:
"Through the ‘60s and ‘70s he successfully navigated a transition in style to a sound popular with working class brown audiences"
At least the term African-American tells the reader that the person is an American with African heritage though may not specify the actual shade of pigmentation. Not all things to do with language are "black and white".
Sluffs ( talk) 21:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
BTW America has its first mixed-race President. Sluffs ( talk) 22:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I found this discussion to be very interesting. I found it quite surprising that the user wanted to correct what he perceived was racist language ("black") only to inadvertently use so much more uncontroversially racist language ("Caucasian") himself. C.harrison1988 ( talk) 14:04, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I direct your attention to Big Bill Broonzy's date of death. Sequestered on the right side, in a box, the day he died is listed as August 14, 1958 but the article itself states Big Bill Broonzy died on August 15, 1958. Don't feel bad; if you go to the article for Alan Moulder you will see the same stupid mistake. If an article doesn't even agree with itself then why should the reader believe anything which is written in the article; it all becomes suspect. These kind of mistakes are the reasons why people criticize Wikipedia as worthless; DUMB mistakes which should be easily recognizable. The gatekeeper of this Wiki article has the ultimate responsibility for making sure that the information is correct and accurate, there should not be any contradictions and the information flows along chronologically. 184.76.56.97 ( talk)JSJR 01272014 —Preceding undated comment added 04:26, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
Big Bill Broonzy. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:53, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Big Bill Broonzy. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:42, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
In the third paragraph of "Style and Influence", I deleted the following sentence:
"the boy had even tried to scrub the black off his skin and made threats to kill himself"
as irrelevant and unnecessarily revealing of the misery of a nine-year-old child. Jwicklatz ( talk) 20:19, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2023 and 3 May 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Barnemj0 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Wilsole0 ( talk) 17:33, 10 April 2023 (UTC)