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![]() | On 5/26/09, Benjamin N. Cardozo was linked from FARK, a high-traffic website. ( Traffic) All prior and subsequent edits to the article are noted in its revision history. |
Here's the link to an article discussing Cardozo's Portuguese heritage: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/05/12/has-the-supreme-court-already-had-a-hispanic-justice/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.203.107 ( talk) 15:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The article reads: «Cardozo's ancestors were Sephardic Jews who immigrated to the United States in the 1740s and 1750s from Portugal via the Netherlands and England.» Well, we're talking about ancestors 6 generations before Cardozo. That is, 64 people. Were they all Jews coming from Portugal via something?! «Cardoso» is a Portuguese name, but «Nathan» is not. And many names were forgotten behind. Don't women count?...
Velho
14:41, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
It's a bit awkward, but I added a few words about his prowress as a writer--I don't think Cardozo can be fairly characterized without mentioning his writing style. Saltyseaweed 03:12, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Should we fix the section on Palsgraff? I think Cardozo framed the issue in terms of duty, not proximate cause. That was Andrew's dissent. Anybody concur? Saltyseaweed 20:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Re: ancestors If I am not mistaken, his ancestors were all IBERIAN Jews at least, if not only Protugues. Women certainly counted back then, as you will notice by the fact that his mother's name (Nathan) was his middle name. In addition, the name Nathan may have been anglized in America. For example, the Henriques, a sephardic family from Spain, became the Hendricks family in America.
Cardozo was not Hispanic. He was of Portuguese descent, as is mentioned clearly in the article, and the Portuguese are a people distinct from the Spanish with their own language and ancestry. The page defining the term Hispanic explains this more fully. 67.180.111.129 ( talk) 14:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
You mean Cardozo was Hispanic —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jetinhouston ( talk • contribs) 19:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I removed "possibly the first Supreme Court Justice of Hispanic descent" from the header. This possible claim is not notable enough for the opening - it's a debatable post-script of his life that was never mentioned when he was alive and belongs elsewhere in the article. The big deal during his lifetime was that he was the second Jew on the Court, and was confirmed while another Jewish Justice was already on there - and even all that's not in the opening. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 01:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I removed the uncited sentence " " Cardoso", " Seixas" and " Mendes" are common Portuguese surnames. With all four of his grandparents being from the Iberian Peninsula, Cardozo is the only Supreme Court justice to be of Hispanic descent. " While the part about the surnames may be true, we need a source that links it directly to Benjamin Cardozo, otherwise it is Original research. The second part isn't true - all of his grandparents were born in the U.S., according to the book bio cited, and as the article makes clear in the first paragraph, his ancestry has not actually been traced back to Portugal. As for the sentence "Cardozo is the only Supreme Court justice to be of Hispanic descent" - this is debated and likely to always be debated. While a section mentioning this new conversation ought to be somewhere in the article, it shouldn't be stated as fact. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 18:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of confusion here. Hispanic has two prevalent meanings: an ancient one (meaning someone from
Hispania); a modern one, meaning someone hailing in same way from a Spanish speaking country. The article
Hispanic states "Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that historically denoted a relationship to the ancient Hispania (geographically coinciding with the Iberian Peninsula). During the modern era, it took on a more limited meaning, relating to the contemporary nation of Spain. Still more recently, the term is used to describe the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by Spain, usually with a majority of the population having Spanish ancestry and speaking the Spanish language. These include Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles. There are also Spanish influences in the African nation of Equatorial Guinea,[1] and the cultures of the Spanish East Indies' nations and territories, the Philippines, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands." So, Hispanic does not generally aplly to Portuguese, whatever some Portuguese-American senator do, or whatever the Federal Transportation Authority decides (unless you all want to say that Cardozo was the first Hispanic judge according to the Federal Transportation Authority...!). He was and American of Sephardi Jewish origin, not an Hispanic.
The Ogre (
talk)
19:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
"Early Years" says that his father, Albert, died in 1885, but the next section says that "From 1891 to 1914, Benjamin ... began under his father Albert.
Hey everybody. I don't feel like a criticism of a person is appropriate in their opening introduction. I would like to take that out and move it somewhere else on the page. Criticism of a person is not an introduction to who they are, but what others think of them. Opinions? -- DavidShankBone 00:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I added a photo. There are also a couple of other photos out there. Judge_cardozo.jpg and Cardozo2.jpg Master shepherd 06:19, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the U Street/Cardozo/African-American Civil War Memorial listing here. It is named for Francis Cardozo, a prominent 19th century African-American educator, not Benjamin Cardozo. Tracymmo 11:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)tracymmo
What rationale is there for including the assertion/suggestion that Cardozo was gay? There was never any evidence of this, and I think it is a bit unfair to start casting aspersions on the man simply because he never married. (And for those of you who are going to whine and call me "homophobic", I have nothing against gay people; I simply think it is unfair to make baseless innuendos about people who are long dead, and therefore cannot defend themselves.) -- Eastlaw ( talk) 10:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
The first thing it mentions is that he was a "Well-known lawyer". The fact that he was a Supreme Court justice is probably more important than that and merits earlier mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.202.69 ( talk) 02:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Cardoso was not Hispanic in any sense. This is streaching the definition in an enourmous number of ways! He was of Sephardi Jewish origin, from families that went to the US prior to independence, coming from the UK and the Nederlands. They probably had Jewish Portuguese origin, but that is not proven. Anyway, that would not make him Hispanic, since Portuguese are not Hispanic! In any of the modern senses of the word Hispanic refers to someone hailing from a Spanish speaking country which is not the case of Portugal. The Ogre ( talk) 19:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
If the term "hispanic" is used to designate an ethnic origin, then, regardless of the Portuguese issue, Cardozo cannot be considered hispanic. Sephardic Jews came to reside in the Iberian peninsula as a result of the diaspora, not as a result of conversion of the native Iberian people to Judaism. As a Sephardic Jew, then, Cardozo's ethnicity was Jewish. In light of this, I think the current last sentence of the introduction should be removed. It should not have been added in the first place. PrivacyMatters ( talk) 04:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
An interesting point with regards to McCain- I had never thought of that! Of course, that logic assumes that Cardozo's family never intermarried with the indigenous population. Anyway, it seems that this whole Cardozo-or-Sotomayor Hispanic affair is building up steam outside of Wikipedia, so I suggest a separate section within this article to place all of this information rather than to continue to clutter up the Supreme Court subsection. The Original Historygeek ( talk) 20:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't have a position on Cardozo's ethnicity or religion. Likewise, the political questions involved in the latest nomination of Judge Santomayor to the Supreme Court are best considered in the context of the Demographics of the Supreme Court of the United States. However, I would say that even Justice Cardozo's own lectures recognized that these questions matter: who a judge is, where he/she is rooted and came from, where he/she was raised, the culture and values to which he/she was exposed, are all inextricably intertwined into the way decisions are ultimately made. They help form 'the lens' through which a judge views the world. This is not a bad thing, but it is a fact of the decisional process. See Lecture IV, Cardozo, Benjamin N., (1921) Nature of the Judicial Process, The Storrs Lectures Delivered at Yale University -- On line hyper-linked version produced and proofed by Lee Fennell. 7&6=thirteen ( talk) 10:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Stan
I reverted the most recent edit (which changed "Spanish and Portuguese Jewish community" to "Sephardi community") since this particular section discusses this the point of Cardozo's ethnicity (specifically Hispanic vs non-Hispanic) and it makes more sense to use the longer phrase- just in this particular case. Otherwise, the use of Sephardi- throughout the rest of the article- makes sense. I'm also changing the sentence that begins "Among them..." because that opening no longer makes grammatical sense given that the sentence before was modified to drop the reference to "experts." The Original Historygeek ( talk) 06:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Cordozo biographer Andrew Kaufman states that Cordozo was Portuguese, coming from Portugal on the Iberian peninsula, which brings up the problem inherent in the term Hispanic. What sort of ancestry qualifies as Hispanic? According to the U.S. Census of the Office of Management and Budget, "The term 'Hispanic' refers to persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central and South America, and other Spanish cultures." But Associated Press defines Hispanic as coming from a Spanish-speaking country, and distinguishes Hispanic from those of Brazilian and Portuguese descent, and Webster's dictionary defines Hispanic "Of or relating to the language, people, or culture of Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America." Therefore, even though Cordoza does not necessarily fit the given definition of Hispanic, he can presumably be referred to as Latin, which has a broader definition despite it's different meanings in different parts of the country. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jamescooly (
talk •
contribs)
18:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
In light of recent edits to this article, I'd like to point out that the question of Cardozo's ethnicity does not hinge solely on the question of whether Portuguese people are Hispanic. Several other issues cloud the question, particularly:
Cheers! bd2412 T 17:25, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Summation
The ignorance of the history of the Iberian Peninsula and of the history of the Sephardic Jews displayed on this page is astounding. Just for the record: There are about twelve Cardozos listed in the rolls of the Portuguese synagogue of Amsterdam c. 1715. But what many if not all of you have missed is that his other family names, including from his mother's side, are Portuguese. To detect this, one has to know a bit of historical phonology.-- Log37 ( talk) 23:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree. That`s sad and even racist to ignore the Sephardic identity of Cardozo and others S&P Sephardic personalities. The Spanish and Portuguese Jews are a unique ethnic subgroup by its own right within both the Jewish nação (and even withing the Sephardic jewry) and the Iberian people. One does not need to be born in or have a recent ancestry in Spain or Portugal to be a Spanish and Portuguese Jew, as matter of fact nearly all the S&P (the most accurate ethnonomy in English is the compound Spanish and Portuguese Jew) have recent roots in Neetherlands, Britain, France, and North America, and even some were of Askhenazi or Mizrahi Jews that adopted the S&P ethos and culture.-- Leonardo Alves ( talk) 15:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
To the anonymous editor who keeps changing the text- please furnish a source before making claims that are not supported by existing citations. None of the citations currently in the article have Kaufman explicitly stating that Cordozo was Portuguese- if I am wrong, please point out where and I will be happy to leave that be. If anything, he is taking a neutral stance since, as he points out, the term Hispanic was not really used at the time as an ethnic identifier. As for what makes a Hispanic take it to the appropriate article- it is irrelevant here since this is a biography. This article is about Cardozo, not the definition of Hispanic nor is it claiming that Cardozo is Hispanic. It is simply reporting something about his life brought to the surface due to Sotomayor's nomination/confirmation. The Original Historygeek ( talk) 04:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
The section about his ethnicity while providing a comical relief does not in any way support the statment
It has also been asserted that Cardozo himself "confessed in 1937 that his family preserved neither the Spanish language nor Iberian cultural traditions".[19] Both the National Association of Latino Elected Officials and the Hispanic National Bar Association consider Sonia Sotomayor to be the first unequivocally Hispanic justice.[15][18]
None of the refences state anything close to what the statment attributes them to as it being anywhere close to "the first unequivocally". None of the articles even state a position and neither of them even bring up the Association of Latino's or the Hispanic Bar Assoc. Due to this I have no choice but to reword and entirely remove this statment from the article as it is not supported by refrences or even stated anywhere else.-- Jab843 ( talk) 15:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Upon review of the data I have conslusivly determined what has occured. In actuality Cardozo's family are definenlty from Safardic origin. I had an elaborate discription and argument but you edited before i posted and atm I am too fustrated to reiterate it and will in the short future. However now i will state this, there is NOTHING showing that Sotomayor's family is hispanic further that Puerto Rico, upon looking at her lineage it is indeed more probable that her family is Pacific in origin, not from the Iberian Pensula. The person on the Assoc. of Latin's is confused in the article and even states that they don't necessarily consider someone hispanic even if they are from Spain. Which is a complete contridiction of the wikipedia stance on the issue thus we cannot use that as a reliable source. I am not stating at the moment that Cardozo is a hispanic, what I am stating is that the links providing Sotomayor's legitamacy are actually inaccurate and not conssistant and the sumarized version was not present in ANY article. The discussion of whether he is hispanic will take more time and research than I have at the moment. I request that we do not get in an editing and revision war and the current revision as of when i last edited it in regards to the ethnicity stands unless a stronger source can be verified. -- Jab843 ( talk) 16:14, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
He was really the first and so far only member of the U.S. Supreme Court to have been an agnostic ? Just curious to know. If so, this fact should be mencioned. 85.240.20.160 ( talk) 01:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
The article states : "As an adult, Cardozo no longer practiced his faith (he identified himself as an "agnostic"), but remained proud of his Jewish heritage.[12]" This is enough for him to be considered the first and so far only agnostic to be a member of the U.S. Supreme Court. 85.242.239.193 ( talk) 23:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
That´s a very good question. I´m not from the United States, but from all I´ve read I never seen any mention of any other agnostic member of the U. S. Supreme Court. That´s why I asked before that question. Of course, this needs an expert, even if I doubt we will find others agnostics ever nominated for the U.S. Supreme Court. If you or any other users have good sources about the question of he was the first or the only agnostic member, they are welcomed. 85.242.239.193 ( talk) 01:57, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Seems to be a contradiction of the term Hispanic. The Iberian Peninsula was referred to by the Romans as Hispania, then of course the Romans spoke Latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.210.63.182 ( talk) 08:22, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I think the article should state this instead of losing time with the useless question of him being hispanic or not. Clearly, hispanic only reffers to people from spanish speaking origin. 81.193.188.147 ( talk) 01:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Yes, that's right: The first US "Supreme" Jurist of Portugese nationality!!! -- 65.88.88.252 ( talk) 16:16, 3 May 2014 (UTC)Veryverser
I reverted two additions today, by new editor Relatador. Here they are: First addition (with the following edit summary: Describe the Sephardi origein of Cardozo as Hispanic, since Sephardi, came from the Hebrew word "S'farad" meaning Spain, therefore make him "Hispanic" ):
And edit two:
I left a note in the User's talk page after the second revert, pointing out to him that these are unsourced, and appear to be original research and his personal conclusions (the second one is particularly opinionated); I pointed him to the pages on the core policies for inclusion. I also invited him to use the Talk page to discuss additions if he is unsure if they meet the policies. I believe this was pretty clear-cut, but if somebody disagrees with the reverts, we can discuss them here. Magidin ( talk) 21:51, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
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I have removed the language that says, "When Cardozo entered Columbia Law School, the program was only two years long; in the midst of his studies, however, the faculty voted to extend the program to three years. Cardozo declined to stay for an extra year, and thus left law school without a law degree." This implies that Czrdozo left law school because the program was extended to three years. However, I have cited another source, which suggests that Cardozo's reason for leaving Columbia Law School was because he protested the schools decision to begin using the case method.
Because the supposed reasons for Cardozo leaving Columbia are nothing more than speculation, I thought that I'd remove all of this, because it is not in link with Wikipedia's policies. CVasil ( talk) 19:54, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
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Here's the link to an article discussing Cardozo's Portuguese heritage: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/05/12/has-the-supreme-court-already-had-a-hispanic-justice/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.203.107 ( talk) 15:22, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
The article reads: «Cardozo's ancestors were Sephardic Jews who immigrated to the United States in the 1740s and 1750s from Portugal via the Netherlands and England.» Well, we're talking about ancestors 6 generations before Cardozo. That is, 64 people. Were they all Jews coming from Portugal via something?! «Cardoso» is a Portuguese name, but «Nathan» is not. And many names were forgotten behind. Don't women count?...
Velho
14:41, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
It's a bit awkward, but I added a few words about his prowress as a writer--I don't think Cardozo can be fairly characterized without mentioning his writing style. Saltyseaweed 03:12, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Should we fix the section on Palsgraff? I think Cardozo framed the issue in terms of duty, not proximate cause. That was Andrew's dissent. Anybody concur? Saltyseaweed 20:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Re: ancestors If I am not mistaken, his ancestors were all IBERIAN Jews at least, if not only Protugues. Women certainly counted back then, as you will notice by the fact that his mother's name (Nathan) was his middle name. In addition, the name Nathan may have been anglized in America. For example, the Henriques, a sephardic family from Spain, became the Hendricks family in America.
Cardozo was not Hispanic. He was of Portuguese descent, as is mentioned clearly in the article, and the Portuguese are a people distinct from the Spanish with their own language and ancestry. The page defining the term Hispanic explains this more fully. 67.180.111.129 ( talk) 14:38, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
You mean Cardozo was Hispanic —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jetinhouston ( talk • contribs) 19:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I removed "possibly the first Supreme Court Justice of Hispanic descent" from the header. This possible claim is not notable enough for the opening - it's a debatable post-script of his life that was never mentioned when he was alive and belongs elsewhere in the article. The big deal during his lifetime was that he was the second Jew on the Court, and was confirmed while another Jewish Justice was already on there - and even all that's not in the opening. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 01:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I removed the uncited sentence " " Cardoso", " Seixas" and " Mendes" are common Portuguese surnames. With all four of his grandparents being from the Iberian Peninsula, Cardozo is the only Supreme Court justice to be of Hispanic descent. " While the part about the surnames may be true, we need a source that links it directly to Benjamin Cardozo, otherwise it is Original research. The second part isn't true - all of his grandparents were born in the U.S., according to the book bio cited, and as the article makes clear in the first paragraph, his ancestry has not actually been traced back to Portugal. As for the sentence "Cardozo is the only Supreme Court justice to be of Hispanic descent" - this is debated and likely to always be debated. While a section mentioning this new conversation ought to be somewhere in the article, it shouldn't be stated as fact. All Hallow's Wraith ( talk) 18:40, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of confusion here. Hispanic has two prevalent meanings: an ancient one (meaning someone from
Hispania); a modern one, meaning someone hailing in same way from a Spanish speaking country. The article
Hispanic states "Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that historically denoted a relationship to the ancient Hispania (geographically coinciding with the Iberian Peninsula). During the modern era, it took on a more limited meaning, relating to the contemporary nation of Spain. Still more recently, the term is used to describe the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by Spain, usually with a majority of the population having Spanish ancestry and speaking the Spanish language. These include Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles. There are also Spanish influences in the African nation of Equatorial Guinea,[1] and the cultures of the Spanish East Indies' nations and territories, the Philippines, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands." So, Hispanic does not generally aplly to Portuguese, whatever some Portuguese-American senator do, or whatever the Federal Transportation Authority decides (unless you all want to say that Cardozo was the first Hispanic judge according to the Federal Transportation Authority...!). He was and American of Sephardi Jewish origin, not an Hispanic.
The Ogre (
talk)
19:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
"Early Years" says that his father, Albert, died in 1885, but the next section says that "From 1891 to 1914, Benjamin ... began under his father Albert.
Hey everybody. I don't feel like a criticism of a person is appropriate in their opening introduction. I would like to take that out and move it somewhere else on the page. Criticism of a person is not an introduction to who they are, but what others think of them. Opinions? -- DavidShankBone 00:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I added a photo. There are also a couple of other photos out there. Judge_cardozo.jpg and Cardozo2.jpg Master shepherd 06:19, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the U Street/Cardozo/African-American Civil War Memorial listing here. It is named for Francis Cardozo, a prominent 19th century African-American educator, not Benjamin Cardozo. Tracymmo 11:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)tracymmo
What rationale is there for including the assertion/suggestion that Cardozo was gay? There was never any evidence of this, and I think it is a bit unfair to start casting aspersions on the man simply because he never married. (And for those of you who are going to whine and call me "homophobic", I have nothing against gay people; I simply think it is unfair to make baseless innuendos about people who are long dead, and therefore cannot defend themselves.) -- Eastlaw ( talk) 10:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
The first thing it mentions is that he was a "Well-known lawyer". The fact that he was a Supreme Court justice is probably more important than that and merits earlier mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.202.69 ( talk) 02:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Cardoso was not Hispanic in any sense. This is streaching the definition in an enourmous number of ways! He was of Sephardi Jewish origin, from families that went to the US prior to independence, coming from the UK and the Nederlands. They probably had Jewish Portuguese origin, but that is not proven. Anyway, that would not make him Hispanic, since Portuguese are not Hispanic! In any of the modern senses of the word Hispanic refers to someone hailing from a Spanish speaking country which is not the case of Portugal. The Ogre ( talk) 19:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
If the term "hispanic" is used to designate an ethnic origin, then, regardless of the Portuguese issue, Cardozo cannot be considered hispanic. Sephardic Jews came to reside in the Iberian peninsula as a result of the diaspora, not as a result of conversion of the native Iberian people to Judaism. As a Sephardic Jew, then, Cardozo's ethnicity was Jewish. In light of this, I think the current last sentence of the introduction should be removed. It should not have been added in the first place. PrivacyMatters ( talk) 04:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
An interesting point with regards to McCain- I had never thought of that! Of course, that logic assumes that Cardozo's family never intermarried with the indigenous population. Anyway, it seems that this whole Cardozo-or-Sotomayor Hispanic affair is building up steam outside of Wikipedia, so I suggest a separate section within this article to place all of this information rather than to continue to clutter up the Supreme Court subsection. The Original Historygeek ( talk) 20:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't have a position on Cardozo's ethnicity or religion. Likewise, the political questions involved in the latest nomination of Judge Santomayor to the Supreme Court are best considered in the context of the Demographics of the Supreme Court of the United States. However, I would say that even Justice Cardozo's own lectures recognized that these questions matter: who a judge is, where he/she is rooted and came from, where he/she was raised, the culture and values to which he/she was exposed, are all inextricably intertwined into the way decisions are ultimately made. They help form 'the lens' through which a judge views the world. This is not a bad thing, but it is a fact of the decisional process. See Lecture IV, Cardozo, Benjamin N., (1921) Nature of the Judicial Process, The Storrs Lectures Delivered at Yale University -- On line hyper-linked version produced and proofed by Lee Fennell. 7&6=thirteen ( talk) 10:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Stan
I reverted the most recent edit (which changed "Spanish and Portuguese Jewish community" to "Sephardi community") since this particular section discusses this the point of Cardozo's ethnicity (specifically Hispanic vs non-Hispanic) and it makes more sense to use the longer phrase- just in this particular case. Otherwise, the use of Sephardi- throughout the rest of the article- makes sense. I'm also changing the sentence that begins "Among them..." because that opening no longer makes grammatical sense given that the sentence before was modified to drop the reference to "experts." The Original Historygeek ( talk) 06:46, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Cordozo biographer Andrew Kaufman states that Cordozo was Portuguese, coming from Portugal on the Iberian peninsula, which brings up the problem inherent in the term Hispanic. What sort of ancestry qualifies as Hispanic? According to the U.S. Census of the Office of Management and Budget, "The term 'Hispanic' refers to persons who trace their origin or descent to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central and South America, and other Spanish cultures." But Associated Press defines Hispanic as coming from a Spanish-speaking country, and distinguishes Hispanic from those of Brazilian and Portuguese descent, and Webster's dictionary defines Hispanic "Of or relating to the language, people, or culture of Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America." Therefore, even though Cordoza does not necessarily fit the given definition of Hispanic, he can presumably be referred to as Latin, which has a broader definition despite it's different meanings in different parts of the country. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jamescooly (
talk •
contribs)
18:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
In light of recent edits to this article, I'd like to point out that the question of Cardozo's ethnicity does not hinge solely on the question of whether Portuguese people are Hispanic. Several other issues cloud the question, particularly:
Cheers! bd2412 T 17:25, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Summation
The ignorance of the history of the Iberian Peninsula and of the history of the Sephardic Jews displayed on this page is astounding. Just for the record: There are about twelve Cardozos listed in the rolls of the Portuguese synagogue of Amsterdam c. 1715. But what many if not all of you have missed is that his other family names, including from his mother's side, are Portuguese. To detect this, one has to know a bit of historical phonology.-- Log37 ( talk) 23:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree. That`s sad and even racist to ignore the Sephardic identity of Cardozo and others S&P Sephardic personalities. The Spanish and Portuguese Jews are a unique ethnic subgroup by its own right within both the Jewish nação (and even withing the Sephardic jewry) and the Iberian people. One does not need to be born in or have a recent ancestry in Spain or Portugal to be a Spanish and Portuguese Jew, as matter of fact nearly all the S&P (the most accurate ethnonomy in English is the compound Spanish and Portuguese Jew) have recent roots in Neetherlands, Britain, France, and North America, and even some were of Askhenazi or Mizrahi Jews that adopted the S&P ethos and culture.-- Leonardo Alves ( talk) 15:40, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
To the anonymous editor who keeps changing the text- please furnish a source before making claims that are not supported by existing citations. None of the citations currently in the article have Kaufman explicitly stating that Cordozo was Portuguese- if I am wrong, please point out where and I will be happy to leave that be. If anything, he is taking a neutral stance since, as he points out, the term Hispanic was not really used at the time as an ethnic identifier. As for what makes a Hispanic take it to the appropriate article- it is irrelevant here since this is a biography. This article is about Cardozo, not the definition of Hispanic nor is it claiming that Cardozo is Hispanic. It is simply reporting something about his life brought to the surface due to Sotomayor's nomination/confirmation. The Original Historygeek ( talk) 04:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
The section about his ethnicity while providing a comical relief does not in any way support the statment
It has also been asserted that Cardozo himself "confessed in 1937 that his family preserved neither the Spanish language nor Iberian cultural traditions".[19] Both the National Association of Latino Elected Officials and the Hispanic National Bar Association consider Sonia Sotomayor to be the first unequivocally Hispanic justice.[15][18]
None of the refences state anything close to what the statment attributes them to as it being anywhere close to "the first unequivocally". None of the articles even state a position and neither of them even bring up the Association of Latino's or the Hispanic Bar Assoc. Due to this I have no choice but to reword and entirely remove this statment from the article as it is not supported by refrences or even stated anywhere else.-- Jab843 ( talk) 15:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Upon review of the data I have conslusivly determined what has occured. In actuality Cardozo's family are definenlty from Safardic origin. I had an elaborate discription and argument but you edited before i posted and atm I am too fustrated to reiterate it and will in the short future. However now i will state this, there is NOTHING showing that Sotomayor's family is hispanic further that Puerto Rico, upon looking at her lineage it is indeed more probable that her family is Pacific in origin, not from the Iberian Pensula. The person on the Assoc. of Latin's is confused in the article and even states that they don't necessarily consider someone hispanic even if they are from Spain. Which is a complete contridiction of the wikipedia stance on the issue thus we cannot use that as a reliable source. I am not stating at the moment that Cardozo is a hispanic, what I am stating is that the links providing Sotomayor's legitamacy are actually inaccurate and not conssistant and the sumarized version was not present in ANY article. The discussion of whether he is hispanic will take more time and research than I have at the moment. I request that we do not get in an editing and revision war and the current revision as of when i last edited it in regards to the ethnicity stands unless a stronger source can be verified. -- Jab843 ( talk) 16:14, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
He was really the first and so far only member of the U.S. Supreme Court to have been an agnostic ? Just curious to know. If so, this fact should be mencioned. 85.240.20.160 ( talk) 01:28, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
The article states : "As an adult, Cardozo no longer practiced his faith (he identified himself as an "agnostic"), but remained proud of his Jewish heritage.[12]" This is enough for him to be considered the first and so far only agnostic to be a member of the U.S. Supreme Court. 85.242.239.193 ( talk) 23:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
That´s a very good question. I´m not from the United States, but from all I´ve read I never seen any mention of any other agnostic member of the U. S. Supreme Court. That´s why I asked before that question. Of course, this needs an expert, even if I doubt we will find others agnostics ever nominated for the U.S. Supreme Court. If you or any other users have good sources about the question of he was the first or the only agnostic member, they are welcomed. 85.242.239.193 ( talk) 01:57, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
Seems to be a contradiction of the term Hispanic. The Iberian Peninsula was referred to by the Romans as Hispania, then of course the Romans spoke Latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.210.63.182 ( talk) 08:22, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I think the article should state this instead of losing time with the useless question of him being hispanic or not. Clearly, hispanic only reffers to people from spanish speaking origin. 81.193.188.147 ( talk) 01:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
Yes, that's right: The first US "Supreme" Jurist of Portugese nationality!!! -- 65.88.88.252 ( talk) 16:16, 3 May 2014 (UTC)Veryverser
I reverted two additions today, by new editor Relatador. Here they are: First addition (with the following edit summary: Describe the Sephardi origein of Cardozo as Hispanic, since Sephardi, came from the Hebrew word "S'farad" meaning Spain, therefore make him "Hispanic" ):
And edit two:
I left a note in the User's talk page after the second revert, pointing out to him that these are unsourced, and appear to be original research and his personal conclusions (the second one is particularly opinionated); I pointed him to the pages on the core policies for inclusion. I also invited him to use the Talk page to discuss additions if he is unsure if they meet the policies. I believe this was pretty clear-cut, but if somebody disagrees with the reverts, we can discuss them here. Magidin ( talk) 21:51, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:39, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:55, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I have removed the language that says, "When Cardozo entered Columbia Law School, the program was only two years long; in the midst of his studies, however, the faculty voted to extend the program to three years. Cardozo declined to stay for an extra year, and thus left law school without a law degree." This implies that Czrdozo left law school because the program was extended to three years. However, I have cited another source, which suggests that Cardozo's reason for leaving Columbia Law School was because he protested the schools decision to begin using the case method.
Because the supposed reasons for Cardozo leaving Columbia are nothing more than speculation, I thought that I'd remove all of this, because it is not in link with Wikipedia's policies. CVasil ( talk) 19:54, 22 June 2019 (UTC)