I removed the drbencarson.com link since it is no longer up Vickfan This link is now working (checked 7/17/2007) Teamember 02:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
While in principal I dig the idea, I have a really hard time buying it from a guy who is a Seventh Day Adventist. Such a belief system for a neurosurgeon is...illogical. Quigonpaj ( talk) 19:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed the quotes section of the article. None of the quotes seemed too terribly important to the article, and no citations were provided for any of them. — Mears man 00:50, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Ben Carson's mother (Sonya Carson) to be so successful —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.105.208.31 ( talk) 23:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I might point out that "pre-med" is not a major, just a series of undergraduate courses required of hopeful future doctors. So, what did Carson actually major in? Lolliapaulina51 ( talk) 17:39, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
is sourced from publications by the author. I intend to remove anything that cannot be sourced from third party sources. DGG ( talk) 05:45, 31 January 2008 (UTC) someone seems to have done it a little too enthusiastically. I have removed the most irrelevant part. I ask again for sources on the rest, reminding everyone of WP:BLP and WP:V. DGG ( talk) 07:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
President Obama and the First Lady heard Dr Benjamin Carson take exception to many current administration policies and positions. He delivered his thoughts on a wide range of issues in a light-hearted and positive manner at the annual National Prayer Breakfast. With his comments, he has entered the universe of 'politics' whether he wants to or not. Where it goes from here "will yet be seen" . . . [1]
Here are the comments from a leader in the Conservative Movement: (You can read the comments of Rush Limbaugh via his website, RushLimbaugh.com)
RUSH: Whoa! Right on. Did you hear that? This guy is talking to Obama. Obama's sitting there, and Dr. Carson is saying, "People say... 'Well, that's not fair because it doesn't hurt the guy who made $10 billion as much as the guy who made ten.' Where does it say you have to hurt the guy? He just put a billion dollars in the pot!" So this neurosurgeon is speaking out in favor of the 1%, the 5%, the 10% who are actually paying the freight in this country via income taxes. They're the ones actually paying the freight. What do we gotta hurt 'em for? I mean, they're already putting money in the pot. Why do we gotta hurt 'em?
He's exactly right. And then he says: You want to know why we got 602 banks in the Caymans with American money? Because they're running away. They don't want to be hurt.
I love this guy. He wasn't finished, either.
CARSON: Here's my solution: When a person is born, give him a birth certificate, an electronic medical record, and a health savings account to which money can be contributed -- pretax -- from the time you're born 'til the time you die. When you die, you can pass it on to your family members, so that when you're 85 years old and you got six diseases, you're not trying to spend up everything. You're happy to pass it on and there's nobody talking about death panels.
AUDIENCE: (laughter and applause) [2] — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 12:25, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Can we link to the transcript? Where can you find a transcript of his keynote? Very few places!
One place is freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2986815/posts . . . which is "black-listed" on Wikipedia. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 01:32, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
As I watched the Glenn Beck program today, I wrote what Dr Benjamin Carson said as he was interviewed:
Could someone please add some information about his public views prior to Obama's administration. Was he pro-Iraq war and pro-spending during the Bush administration? What has he expressed in the past publicly? He's been an adult for some time now yet very little is listed in this page. Thanks. 101.51.136.60 ( talk) 07:53, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Rand Paul won the straw poll for president; Ben Carson won their hearts! Conservatives are very excited about the wisdom and clarity that comes from Dr Carson. Here are four references: [3] "Ben Carson at CPAC"; [4] “Did Ben Carson Hint at a 2016 Run for President During CPAC Speech?”; [5] “DR. BEN CARSON RALLIES CONSERVATIVES AT CPAC, HINTS AT WHITE HOUSE RUN”; and, from the WSJ, [6] “Ben Carson for President — The Johns Hopkins neurosurgeon has two big ideas for America.” — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 10:14, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Ben Carson's article reads like a marketing plant. Who is his agent? Wikipietime ( talk) 03:20, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
The subject of this article has not yet retired, although it is announced. It is stated in reliable sources that he plan to retire, but doesn't give a specific date. Therefore, do not state that he has retired per WP:CRYSTALBALL, let us wait until a reliable source has verified that the retirement has occurred.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 00:35, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
BLPN discussion here. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 05:46, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Regarding gay marriage, this article contains negative material (e.g. "nasty, petty, and ill-informed"), which is fine. I'm not a censor trying to skew Wikipedia content, and therefore am not suggesting to remove any negative material. But this article gives no clue that Carson favors equal rights to a considerable degree, and no clue that his comments were compared to those of a famous Democratic judge. We could add:
Carson has clarified that outside of "marriage" he believes "gay people should have all the rights anyone else has". Meanwhile, Megyn Kelly of Fox News compared Carson's controversial remark to a recent concern expressed by Justice Sonya Sotomayor.
Cites: Kelly, Megyn, America Live with Megyn Kelly, Fox News (March 29, 2013), Fox News Video (accessed August 16, 2013).
"Group of Johns Hopkins Med School Students Want Dr. Ben Carson Replaced as Commencement Speaker After Gay Marriage Comments"", Fox News Insider (March 29, 2013).
These sources are reliable news stories. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:04, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm not seeing the need to artifically "balance" our coverage of this controversy by adding the opinion of a cable-news talking head. Carson's comments were widely remarked upon by cable-news talking heads of all partisan stripes. Why highlight only Megyn Kelly's take? If we choose to go down this road (which I think would be a mistake), then we're obligated to provide a more representative sampling of reactions, rather than just selecting an apologist viewpoint from FoxNews.
Finally, it seems you've already raised this proposal at WP:BLP/N, where outside editors thought it wasn't an improvement and in fact introduced significant BLP concerns ( [7]). MastCell Talk 04:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
I've put in a new top image, and moved the old one down. Also organized the political section chronologically. Replaced some redundant material in the gay marriage material (he loves everyone the same) with a quote where he clarifies that outside of "marriage" he believes "gay people should have all the rights anyone else has". Anythingyouwant ( talk) 07:07, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
This page is looking like Carson's personal website. I don't think his wikipage is supposed to include month-to-month status reports on Carson's latest speaking engagements. Thus, removing them. -- Petzl ( talk) 01:53, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
(Outdent)Well, I guess the best place for you to look would be WP:Preserve: "Instead of deleting text, consider:
I agree with Anythingyouwant. Most of the content that you removed is notable and supported by multiple reliable sources establishing that. The article doesn't appear to list every speech or event, but just the ones that have garnered attention due to some notoriety or criticism he's received from them. Unless there is clear violation of Wikipedia policy, there is no justification for a mass deletion. Rather, this appears to be a difference of opinion in which case you should establish the consensus of editors here before making large changes like that. - Maximusveritas ( talk) 20:02, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article says:
“ | Carson has written four bestselling books published by Zondervan, an international Christian media and publishing company: Gifted Hands, The Big Picture, Take the Risk, and Think Big. The first book is an autobiography and two are about his personal philosophies of success that incorporate hard work and a faith in God. | ” |
There is also a list of his publications at the bottom of the article. So, do people view the above paragraph as redundant? It seems to include some interesting stuff ("bestselling", "autobiography", etc). The reason I ask is because another editor has suggested deleting it. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
I have no objection to including third-party reaction to his gay marriage comments, including the quote from the Hopkins professor saying that what Carson said appeared to be "nasty, petty, and ill-informed". But, as I pointed out several months ago, it is lopsided to exclude all third-party reactions defending Carson. WP:NPOV requires some neutrality. So, I would suggest inserting this sentence:
“ | While his remarks were condemned as offensive at Johns Hopkins, Megyn Kelly of Fox News pointed out that U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sonya Sotomayor had recently asked whether gay marriage would lead to incest and polygamy being allowed.[1] | ” |
“ | [1] "Group of Johns Hopkins Med School Students Want Dr. Ben Carson Replaced as Commencement Speaker After Gay Marriage Comments"", Fox News Insider (March 29, 2013). | ” |
Even if the Hopkins quote were simply described instead of quoted (which I am not suggesting we should do), still I don't think quoting Carson himself in any way justifies excluding all third-party comments in his defense, given the inclusion of criticism by third parties. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 22:38, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
I read through the section being discussed here and it seem fine to me; however, why give twice as much coverage to this as to the section that follows that is twice as important? (Criticism of Affordable Care Act) The emphasis is backwards. His criticism of Obamacare is far more important. — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 05:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The first sentence in this section says, “ Memphis business Academy of Achievement, and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans.” Does it mean to say, “Carson received the Memphis business Academy of Achievement and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans” (omitted comma; words in bold are suggested to be added)? — The Sackinator ( talk) 17:32, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
[http://www.wnd.com/2014/02/ben-carson-obama-officials-acting-like-gestapo/ >> Ben Carson: Obama officials 'acting like Gestapo'] Lihaas ( talk) 20:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Whereabouts in "rural Georgia" was his family from? Zigzig20s ( talk) 01:53, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Some are criticizing Carson for using a Lenin quote that is in question: “Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.” ― Vladimir Lenin[ 1] 72.161.222.69 ( talk) 02:27, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
I believe the attribution under political affiliation that he supports "banning automatic weapons in large cities" is a mistake. The quotes I've found all refer to semiautomatic weapons. Automatic weapons are exceedingly rare and used in very few crimes. I don't have an original source so I won't change it myself. Here's one quote, though: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/03/04/dr_benjamin_carson_on_gun_control_it_depends_on_where_you_live.html 24.199.195.38 ( talk) 00:19, 17 June 2014 (UTC)del
I'm copying this here from my talk page:
I simply removed the word "evangelical" that said Ben Carson was an evangelical Christian. For years the evangelical movement labeled Seventh-day Adventists (SDA's) as a cult and wanted nothing to do with them. SDA's, although they believe in evangelism, they do not consider themselves evangelicals and neither does anyone else; Just like Baptist's don't consider themselves to be evangelicals. Ben Carson considers himself a devout Christian and an Adventist, but to throw the word evangelical really is an assumption and is POV. If you can show me otherwise, I truly stand and differenciate evangelicals and SDA's. -- Maniwar ( talk) 12:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually Baptists do consider themselves to be Evangelical. [1] Chryslerfan ( talk) 17:50, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
References
I think that Dr. Ben Carson is an Evangelical. I also think that many people 'out there' seem to have issues in sorting out the conceptual content of what that designation includes or might include or could include. The rise of vegetarian and vegan Presidential candidates in the USA is, IMO, a matter of note also! This one is conservative; others (like Cory Booker and Dennis Kucinich) are unabashed liberals. MaynardClark ( talk) 14:59, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
The article contains far too many quotes from Dr. Carson for an encyclopedia article, making this more of an autobiography than a biography. There is also too much reliance on certain sources like this American Thinker article. I would like to address these concerns by removing some of less notable quotes, and as appropriate, replacing some quotes with third party analysis. Are there any objections before I get started, or does anyone have any favorite quotes that they just can't live without?- Mr X 19:36, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
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Under Views on marriage and evolution the abbreviation used for Southern Poverty Law Center is SLPC. It should be SPLC.
Please change SLPC to SPLC
I'd correct the typo myself but the page is locked.
118.208.81.2 (
talk) 02:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Why is calling a governmental official a czar acceptable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.12.11.116 ( talk) 02:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I object to this edit by Nemd57. For one thing, it has a broken cite. It relies on a primary source which is not preferable, largely because of the potential for misuse. In this case, selected quotes were taken out of context, resulting in a non-neutral presentation. Also, the parenthetical "(according to the SPLC's page on him)" is not a good construct.
I'm open to finding a compromise wording for this paragraph, but I will be pretty insistent on using analysis in good secondary sources.- Mr X 01:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I'll agree to using the source you suggested, which pretty much says what my summary did (complete with the same quote from the SPLC's website that I used). I can draw up a draft unless you want to. Nemd57 ( talk) 22:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
He is popular at the Conservative Political Action Conference gleaming 4th place in the final straw poll. [10] -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 22:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Consideration for inclusion; Ben Carson: Prisons show homosexuality is a choice because inmates go in straight, leave gay. Tarc ( talk) 14:47, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
I sometimes get notifications when changes are made to this article, but for some reason, I'm not always notified when changes are made. Any suggestions as to why? Thanks! The Sackinator ( talk) 02:36, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Ben Carson almost killed his friend because they disagreed on a radio station. His friend was injured after that the blade that he had broke on the friend's belt buckle. After so he ran to his house locked the door and read his bible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.83.54.4 ( talk) 22:57, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Is this a reasonable source enough? http://www.biography.com/people/ben-carson-475422#anger-issues — Preceding unsigned comment added by Voss749 ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
What is a West Point scholarship? There is no tuition at West Point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.2.15.253 ( talk) 16:00, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
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I think a sentence or two about Ben Carson plagiarizing should in be this article.
It is well known that Ben Carson plagiarized parts of his 2012 book "America the Beautiful". He even publicly issued an apology for his plagiarism. You can look at this comparison for further proof.
Cpaloia ( talk) 16:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
{{U|
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21:32, 4 May 2015 (UTC)This article is not NPOV, and missing significant criticism of Carson. Here are some sources that could be used in this regard.
- Cwobeel (talk) 00:56, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
The political views section is very poor. It engages in gotcha quotes, without providing any indication of attempts to represent that actual nature of Dr. Carson's views on the various issues mentioned. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:42, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello. Before, I added information on Ben Carson's views regarding czars; it was removed because I only referenced one third party source. However, wouldn't that mean that his views on gun control also should be removed? There is only one source given for his views on gun control, and other than it, it doesn't seem that there is much in the media on his opposition to conservatives' views on gun control. Do the two issues stand and fall together? If so, should we have his views on both czars and gun control in the article, or should we do away with them altogether? — The Sackinator ( talk) 22:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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I would like to add that Dr. Ben Carson announced that we will run for President on Monday, May 4th officially and made a speech at the Detroit's Music Hall Center for the Performing Arts. IllegalTrash ( talk) 12:20, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello. I found the citation to verify this statement. However, it's already used in this article (it's the 110th citation/note, specifically the first sentence of its third paragraph), and I don't know how to cite a single reference multiple times in an article. Help would be greatly appreciated! — The Sackinator ( talk) 19:15, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Do you think this article could have a chance as a featured article? If so, what needs to be done? A response will be appreciated! — The Sackinator ( talk) 23:16, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
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Awards and honors
Carson is a member of the American Academy of Achievement, and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans. Carson has been awarded 38 honorary doctorate degrees and dozens of national merit citations.[31]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 01:59, 6 June 2015 (UTC) Specific description for this edit request: 1) to re-organize this sub-section using the more traditional bullet point display and 2) include the highest honor given by the NAACP in this list of Awards and honors. Also, to include the earlier approved Lincoln Medal from Ford's Theatre. Ljhammond14 ( talk) 14:39, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
References
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{{Infobox scientist |birth_name = Benjamin Solomon Carson |image = Ben Carson by Gage Skidmore 3.jpg |image_size = 220 |caption = Carson speaking in 2015 |birth_date = Detroit, Michigan, United States |party = Republican |spouse =
September 18, 1951 |birth_place =|children = 3 sons:
Murray
Benjamin, Jr. "B.J."
Rhoeyce
[1]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 02:43, 6 June 2015 (UTC) The specific description of the edit request: To correct the birth order of his children from oldest to youngest. Citation is Carson introducing his children and identifying their birth order at his campaign announcement, May 4, 2015, in Detroit, MI.
References
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Personal life
Carson and his wife, Lacena "Candy" Rustin, met in 1971 as students at Yale University. They married in 1975 and have three sons: Murray, Benjamin Jr. "B.J.", and Rhoeyce.[84] They live in West Friendship, Maryland, and are members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.[98][99]
Carson was baptized at Burns Seventh-day Adventist Church on Detroit's eastside. A few years later he told the pastor at a church in Inkster, Michigan where he was attending that he had not fully understood his first baptism and wanted to be baptized again, so he was. He has served as a local elder and Sabbath school teacher in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.[100] His mother was a devout Seventh-day Adventist.[101] [1]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 14:26, 6 June 2015 (UTC) a specific description of the edit request: 1) I corrected the birth order here as above, of his sons. He introduced them in this video, including their birth order. 2) I changed Inkster, Michigan that to Inkster, Michigan where. 3. Last, I corrected the spelling of his church from Seventh-Day Adventist to Seventh-day Adventist. This is all I know to correct now. No new information included; only corrections. Thanks for your help, editors. :-) Lois Ljhammond14 ( talk) 14:26, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
References
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Awards and honors
Carson is a member of the American Academy of Achievement, and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans. Carson has been awarded 38 honorary doctorate degrees and dozens of national merit citations.[31]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 06:27, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
It would seem fair to me to include Dr. Carson's receipt of the Lincoln Medal because of the precedent set by Zoe Dell Nutter, Board of Trustees, Ford's Theatre Society in 2005; Dr. Maya Angelou, Civil Rights Activist in 2008, the same year Dr. Carson received it too, and Lee Kuan Yew, Minister Mentor of Singapore in 2011. Nutter, Angelou and Yew all appear in Wikipedia and their Medals are mentioned. With your approval, I would like to re-submit a Request to Edit and include this Medal on his page. Also, since you mentioned that this important Medal does not have its own wiki page, I am happy to volunteer to create this new page. I'm please that Wikipedia deemed this a notable honor before, exactly on his year and after. Please, let's correct this omission now and let me know if you would like for me to build the new article. Here's a description of the honor:
The Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medal is an annual award given to individuals who, through their body of work, accomplishments or personal attributes, exemplify the lasting legacy, and mettle of character embodied by the most beloved President in our Nation’s history, President Abraham Lincoln.
Traditionally, the Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medal is given to recipients at the Ford’s Theatre benefit, which is held annually in the theatre where President Abraham Lincoln was shot on April 14, 1865.
Recipients Recipients of Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medals should illuminate or reflect Lincoln’s legacy of leadership, service, humanity, wisdom, eloquence and vision in their body of work, accomplishments or personal attributes. As Ford’s Theatre serves as a connection point and reminder of Lincoln’s legacy, so must the recipients of Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medals, helping us understand the beloved 16th President’s lasting impact in a contemporary light, and how it continues to inspire generations of Americans.
The Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees of Ford’s Theatre Society evaluates and determines who will receive Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medals. [3]
Thank you for your consideration. Ljhammond14 ( talk) 03:09, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Done Of course the list of awards will not be exhaustive (if we have a lot of awards), but it only includes 1 other, so I don't think it's a major problem to include just 2. While Lincoln Medal is a redlink now, it might not be forever, and being recognized by the president and several large medical bodies seems significant enough to deserve a brief mention to me. If anyone disagrees, please feel free to revert me and discuss it further. Thanks. — Jess· Δ ♥ 04:44, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
References
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Please add: The National Draft Ben Carson for President Committee helped successfully make the retired neurosurgeon the first candidate successfully drafted for president since 1964, when Republican Barry Goldwater, an early leader of the modern American conservative movement, won the GOP nomination.
Source: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/inside-the-super-pacs-putting-ben-carson-on-top/article/2566819 Bpw6 ( talk) 17:21, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Talk:Rick_Perry#RFC_about_whether_his_presidential_candidacy_should_be_mentioned_in_the_lead_paragraph Anythingyouwant ( talk) 15:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
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The Southern Poverty Law Center libeled Dr. Ben Carson, and when they got called on it, they removed his name from their hit list, and gave a public apology. Those are the facts. Any more than that is merely the SPLC trying to justify its libel, and claim that its position is supported by their nebulous reference to "most people." So as not to make Wikipedia appear to be a party to such speculative and biased opinion, the last part of the quote from the SPLC should be deleted, namely: "We've also come to the conclusion that the question of whether a better-researched profile of Dr. Carson should or should not be included in our 'Extremist Files' is taking attention from the fact that Dr. Carson has, in fact, made a number of statements that express views that we believe most people would conclude are extreme." RHVF ( talk) 16:36, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
I have added a short section on Dr. Carson's position on abortion and use of fetal tissue harvested from abortions in medical research. HandsomeMrToad ( talk) 22:24, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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In External links, below his campaign website link, please add this template:
71.23.178.214 ( talk) 15:16, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
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"The speech was garnered Carson considerable attention" should be changed to "The speech garnered Carson considerable attention" 86.138.44.143 ( talk) 23:51, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Greetings. I would like to suggest that Dr. Carson's writing be all in one place at the end of the article, as it is in every other Wikipedia article. A list of journals and a list of articles does not belong under "Medical career". Also, why do you list every book he wrote twice? Once in the prose and once in the bibliography. Thank you. - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:19, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Done. Sorry to anybody who dislikes templates. - SusanLesch ( talk) 00:32, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
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Under the Abortion heading, there is misleading information about the subject's views. The source cited itself proves that the statement in the article, "advocates tissue harvested from abortions for medical research" is inaccurate, as the source [59] states that he advocates using tissue from already dead tissue rather than aborted tissue, implying that miscarried fetal tissue or other deceased tissue not from abortions. Please fix this misinformation. Myson1202 ( talk) 02:34, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Done Thank you for identifying this issue. I have edited the page to match recent statements and to clarify with neutral material. If you have any further recommendations please open a new request and be specific on what to place on the page with good references. This will help other editors make the changes more quickly. Inomyabcs ( talk) 15:40, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
The photo of Carson in scrubs in the "Medical career" section is dated 2013. While the NIST website says the file was created in 2013 by V. Aceveda of the U.S. Air Force, [14] that doesn't appear to be when the photo was taken. A June 2009 article by Veronica Aceveda on the Air Force website includes it as the second photo in a clickable gallery, [15] but the article doesn't indicate Aceveda ever met with or spoke to Carson, as the article is about a son of a military member who was given an award at an event where Carson was in the audience. It's not clear if Aceveda was the actual photographer or if there was a mixup with the photo credit, because a CNN article from February 2009 credits Johns Hopkins University for what appears to be another photo in the same series, with the same backdrop, outfit, facial hair style and length and minimal gray hair pattern and hair length. [16] Indeed, that Johns Hopkins-credited photo appears on a page on the Johns Hopkins website that is copyrighted 2004. [17] The version of the photo used on Wikipedia even appears to have been included in a 2003 article in Philanthropy magazine, [18] though perhaps the photo was added afterward. The "Sears portrait studio"-style background seems a lot more likely to have been for a staff photo (like from Johns Hopkins) than for a photo taken by a reporter. If this is not actually a photo taken by a government employee for a U.S. government publication, it may not comply with Wikipedia's image use policy. Pdxuser ( talk) 17:25, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
I have added a very short section on Dr. Carson's view of the Big Bang theory. HandsomeMrToad ( talk) 09:34, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
The sentence indicating that Carson believes that retrograde orbits are a violation of conservation of momentum is accurate, but doesn't take it far enough. He believes (same reference) that such orbits are proof of the invalidity of the Big Bang theory. Jestertrek ( talk) 14:09, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
“I’m not gonna denigrate you because of your faith and you shouldn’t denigrate me for mine. And that’s the kind of attitude, you know – that’s the kind of attitude that I think is very important in the society in which we live today.”
You know, and if you go back and you look at -- what I would like for somebody to show me is an improved Islamic text that opposes sharia. Let me see -- if you can show me that, I will begin to alter my thinking on this. But right now, when you have something that is against the rights of women, against the rights of gays, subjugates other religions, and a host of things that are not compatible with our Constitution, why in fact would you take that chance?
This article on Ben Carson perpetuates an oft-repeated error when it says: "He is known for being the first surgeon to separate conjoined twins. . . "
Dr. Carson is definitely not the first surgeon to separate conjoined twins. The earliest successful separation of male conjoined twins occurred in 1952. The earliest successful separation of female conjoined twins was in 1961. See web page Conjoined Twins Info, as of August 2007 ( [1])
Oldest Conjoined Male Twins (Living) - 1952 – Ronnie & Donnie Galyon (USA, October 28 1952). They are omphalopagus. Oldest Conjoined Female Twins (Living) - 1961 – Lori and Reba Schappell (USA, September 18 1961). They are craniopagus.
The twins in the Carson surgery were conjoined at the head but Carson is not the first surgeon to separate twins joined at the head. The first successful separation of twins conjoined at the head occurred in 1955 at Mercy Hospital in Chicago. The Chicago Daily Tribune reported the surgery on April 22, 1955. The web page, Conjoined Twins in the World, As Of August 2007 ( [2]),includes this event in its list: "Andrews (Illinois, October 1 1954) girls, Deborah, Christine (craniopagus, separated April 21 1955)."
Carson's noteworthy accomplishment was the separation of twins joined at the back of the head. But it wasn't just his accomplishment as the surgical team included 70 people.
2601:441:C100:5AE1:D127:3E00:2417:C7AC ( talk) 19:57, 13 October 2015 (UTC) Rosemary Schwedes
References
For context, the content removed is this, dealing with the separation of church and state: "A conflict between the views of Carson and the GOP base has been noted: "... Dr. Carson's primary challenge is going to be his struggle to marry the Adventist view of separation of church and state with the counter view of much of the Republican base, which calls for tearing at the wall between church and state." [1]
Bullrangifer there's some crufty material in the religion section - Carson stated in the 2013 interview that his "debates" with Dawkins and Dennett in 2006 netted him negative attention - it violates WP:RECENTISM to push opinion pieces from the last month only.
Per WP:ONUS the onus is on people proposing the addition of material to justify it's importance and relevance in ten years time. Weasel phrases like "it has been noted" are a common way to couch bullshit.
SDA theology has a lot of unscientific beliefs, there needs to be primary sources on what Carson has said and reactions should be kept to a minimum - and ones that should be included need a clear standard as to why it matters and others don't.-- Callinus ( talk) 06:06, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
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Why in the hell aint there a section on this guys views about Education? He plans on having the US Department of Education monitor political speech in universities. Why isn't that in there? You people! https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/21/ben-carsons-education-department-would-p — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.172.156.159 ( talk) 04:11, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
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06:01, 22 October 2015 (UTC)Bill Clinton was not impeached by Republicans for an extramarital affair. He was impeached for lying under oath about a U.S. citizen, Paula Jones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.74.131 ( talk) 19:00, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
I just saw this rather odd story on Twitter: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/27/wikipedia-trolls-tie-ben-carson-pedophiles-top-google-search-results/
I am posting it here because it's about Ben Carson's Wikipedia page. Kind of strange. Schematica ( talk) 19:49, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
While Dr. Carson was obviously a talented and pioneering neurosurgeon, the article fails to mention that since his retirement he has embraced a number of highly-questionable anti-science positions. These include an at least partial anti-vaccine position:
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2015/sep/23/ben-carson/carson-wrong-vaccine-claim/
...and personal involvement with a snake-oil supplement company, Mannatech, currently being investigated for making illegal "cancer cure" claims for its products:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/396193/ben-carsons-troubling-connection-jim-geraghty http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/10/09/mannatech-ben-carsons-lack-of-critical-thinking-skills-extends-to-medicine-as-well/
It seems like these significant deviations from standard medical practice and research ought to be at least mentioned in the article, for the sake of completeness.
I would have added them myself, but editing for this article seems to be broken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 ( talk) 23:44, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
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Ben Carson's office calls people with the number <redacted>. It is an automated call,with a recording that does not really work. People find it annoying. It is a spam. Please tell Ben Carson to stop calling people with the <redacted> Thank you. 24.177.118.100 ( talk) 04:48, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
Per WP:Summary style, it looks like time to start Political positions of Ben Carson, which currently redirects back here.. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 05:03, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
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-- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:45, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Since this came up in the debate, here are some more sources (including one about this coming up in the debate):
-- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:30, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I'll add:
-- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:04, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
This news story from October 29 seems useful too:
Carson's position is evidently that the only thing he was paid for was speaking per standard speaking fees he received from other groups. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 07:38, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
In the section on "political positions" there's a subsection titled "creationism". I deleted it because, as I said in the edit summary, it's "peripheral to section titled 'political positions'. This info can be found at main article on political positions."
This whole section on "political positions" is supposed to be a mere summary of what's at political positions of ben carson, per wp:summary style. This detailed material about evolution is at best peripheral relative to his political positions, and therefore it's not necessary in a summary of those political positions. The info is available in the article political positions of ben carson, and I support keeping the info there in that article, because it is related (tangentially) to Carson's general opposition to what he deems excessive "political correctness". There is much material there in that article that is not suitable in a summary here in this article.
Moreover, there is no separate section or subsection for "creationism" or "evolution" in political positions of ben carson, so the material that I deleted here in this article seems contrary to wp:summary style for that reason as well. (Incidentally, I don't think that the word "creationism" is as familiar as the word "evolution" notwithstanding that "creationism" would come before "evolution" alphabetically.) Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:47, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
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This article lists Ben Carson's ethnicity as "African-American".
This field is not required for other people, specifically Bobby Jindal who would be listed as "Indian-American".
Yet the article does not state which of Ben's parents are African to warrant the term "African". His skin color is not enough justification to speculate on ethnicity. -- 14.3.207.97 ( talk) 13:07, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
This article uses Facebook for sources, such as for saying that Ben Carson supports civil unions. I attempted to use Facebook to be more specific on Ben Carson's fetal tissue-controversy—to show that he says his only involvement was "supplying tumors ... removed from ... patients" and that neither he "nor any of the doctors involved with this study, had anything to do with abortion or what Planned Parenthood has been doing." May I use this source? If not, are there any more reliable sources that depict his response this specifically? — The Sackinator ( talk) 21:51, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
There are inconsistencies on this page regarding Ben Carson's college education. First paragraph is incorrect. It states, "Born into poverty in Detroit, Michigan and a graduate of the Yale School of Medicine,"
Dr. Carson did not graduate from the Yale School of Medicine. The synopsis on the right margin of the page has the correct information.
Dr. Carson got his undergraduate degree from Yale University, and his M.D. from The University of Michigan.
Doriansnow ( talk) 21:04, 3 November 2015 (UTC)doriansnow
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Hi there,
Please change "Born into poverty in Detroit, Michigan and a graduate of the Yale School of Medicine" (found in the introduction to the article)
to "Born into poverty in Detroit, Michigan and a graduate of Yale University and the University of Michigan Medical School".
For reference, see here. Furthermore, other references from his Wiki article confirm this fact.
Thanks!
Dranian ( talk) 13:40, 4 November 2015 (UTC) Dranian
Hello. In this article we have a quotation where Carson says "you know" three times, in addition to the false start "it's just, we're changing..." Such a quotation would normally be edited in the printed press, without ellipsis I believe. I checked our manual of style though, and did not find anything on the matter. What do you think? Biwom ( talk) 09:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Some of Carson's beliefs are quite extraordinary, such as [30]. A section about these views would be a great addition to this article. - Cwobeel (talk) 21:38, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Winkelvi Can you stop with this Undue business? The Bible is a Jewish book, it's quite relevant that he's contradicting the actual book he's trying to quote! Ariel. ( talk) 19:35, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
This section needs to be rewritten:
In his book Gifted Hands, Carson relates that, in his youth, he had a violent temper. He once tried to hit his mother over the head with a hammer over a clothes dispute and, while in the ninth grade, he nearly stabbed a friend who had changed the station on the radio. [1] [2] After this incident, he began reading the Book of Proverbs and applying verses on anger. As a result, Carson states he "never had another problem with temper". [3] [4] [5]
MaynardClark ( talk) 01:11, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
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The article is quickly becoming a quote farm. We need less quotations from Carson in this article, not more. Time to write it in prose, not just endlessly copying and pasting quotes. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 04:25, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
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CLIMATE CHANGE SECTION: Carson rejects the scientific consensus that human activity causes climate change; in November 2014 he said that "there's always going to be either cooling or warming going on" and that he found the debate on climate change to be "irrelevant" and a distraction from protecting the environment.[84]
In 2015, after Carson expressed his disbelief about the scientific consensus on climate change, at a Commonwealth Club forum in San Francisco,[85] After this statement, Governor Jerry Brown of California sent Carson a flash drive containing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Synthesis Report, which details the scientific evidence of human impact on climate change.[85][86] Carson response, to the San Francisco Chronicle, was that "There is no overwhelming science that the things that are going on are man-caused and not naturally caused."[85][86]
GRAMMAR CHANGES BELOW:
Carson rejects the scientific consensus that human activity causes climate change; in November 2014 he said that "there's always going to be either cooling or warming going on" and that he found the debate on climate change to be "irrelevant" and a distraction from protecting the environment.[84]
In 2015 Carson expressed his disbelief about the scientific consensus on climate change at a Commonwealth Club forum in San Francisco.[85] After this statement, Governor Jerry Brown of California sent Carson a flash drive containing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Synthesis Report, which details the scientific evidence of human impact on climate change.[85][86] In response to the San Francisco Chronicle Carson said, "There is no overwhelming science that the things that are going on are man-caused and not naturally caused."[85][86] RK4uIek9cN ( talk) 19:32, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Discussion for proposal for section title change -- the title centers on "the media" which is so specific that any comments from outside "the media" would not be proper in this long-ish section. Also, saying "credibility" is perhaps too harsh and focuses on the person, rather than the statements. Something like "historical accuracy" would focus on the comments and claims themselves, rather than the "credibility" of Carson the person. Therefore, some alternatives:
Feel free to propose other alternatives. -- Fuzheado | Talk 16:07, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Ben_Carson#Yale_psychology_class - This section needs a lot of editing consolidation and cleaning up. -- Fuzheado | Talk 02:13, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
In an April 2014 Op-Ed in the ' Washington Times', Carson wrote that he was the victim of an apparent shakedown by an unnamed woman in Florida who claimed he was the father of her son. Carson said he refused to submit a DNA sample to the State of Florida, on the grounds that the government (in general) was so irresponsible they would probably have linked him to a murder somewhere, and the paternity matter was resolved without further complications. The ' Washington Post' has also covered this story, emphasizing that, if the story (which was previously unknown to journalists) is true as Carson wrote it up, it's a rather bizarre way of making a "humblebrag" about having only slept with one woman in his life, his wife. Not sure if or how we should include this story, though it may help explain Carson's comment last week that the media thinks "there must be nurse out there somewhere". But if it gets more traction, we'll need a short section. It doesn't help that his credibility and biographical anecdote-telling is under fire. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:44, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
This article made the Wikipedia:Top 25 Report at number seven with 584,606 views for the week November 1 to 7, 2015. It was also number eleven the week before and number seven the week before that. Congratulations to the editors of this article for the exposure of their work. SchreiberBike | ⌨ 20:02, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps these two sections should be merged? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 23:16, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
What was his status during the Vietnam War? Born in 1951 he would have been subject to the draft and the lottery. Robinrobin ( talk) 02:30, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
The following statement is undue and not relevant for inclusion in Carson's BLP:
“ | At the fourth Republican debate, Carson said that just "19.8 percent of black teens have a job who are looking for one", but The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that 74.4 percent of them have jobs. | ” |
CFredkin ( talk) 20:16, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Ben Carson said that just “19.8 percent of black teens have a job who are looking for one.”Not quite. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the unemployment rate for African-Americans between 16 and 19 years old is 25.6 percent. In other words, 74.4 percent of them have jobs, almost four times what Carson said.- Cwobeel (talk)
A correct statement would be this: "Zero percent of black teenagers have a job, who are looking for one". After all, people who have a job are not looking for a job (though some of them may be looking for another job). So I doubt we should say that the correct percentage is 74.4. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:26, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I would suuggest that the Ben Carson article should provide more detail about the outcome of the Binder twins, such as
...In 1987, Carson successfully separated conjoined twins, the Binder twins, who had been joined at the back of the head (craniopagus twins). The 70-member surgical team, led by Carson, worked for 22 hours. Both twins survived, albeit each with significant brain damage.
Bee Cliff River Slob ( talk) 14:29, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
[I just realised there is an edit request, my apologies please add this as an edit request - I am new here ] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Majorlegend ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
I think the article is now biased beyond reason on his achievement. This man has for the better part for his life been a world class neurosurgeon who got there by sheer hard work with a poor mother supporting him.
It's wonderful that you think the United States is a meritocracy. Now can we stick to the facts?
As much as I think his political views are insane. I don't think it's fair to reduce his medical career to one or two paragraphs. And for the lines mentioned his expertise with other types of neurosurgery to be left with [citation needed]
It's sad to see people trash this guy just because the media has said one or two bad things about him. I had read this same wiki years ago and his medical career has been completely destroyed unfairly. This is reddit hive mind think at it's worst.
For example the fact that he was the youngest director of neurosurgery ever at the time at John Hopkins at the age of just 33 is completely removed. http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/03/403599009/5-things-you-should-know-about-ben-carson
the binders twins didn't get a good outcome, but that bit is stretched way long as if it's his fault. They were told it was a risky procedure the operation paved the way for many successful ones where Carson did the same procedure and the conjoined twins ended up normal and others ones which also failed including one where Carson tried to do a pioneering one on adults where the operating equipment were designed by him and his team.
On top of this Carson performed hundreds of surgeries and also revived/pioneered modern hemispherectomy a procedure that requires removing half a brain and he successfully did it where the children recovered completely to lead normal lives http://hemifoundation.homestead.com/jessiesstory.html
He also contributed to medical research in numerous publications. Authored 100 Neurosurgical Publications http://www.nationalreview.com/author/ben-carson http://www.hopkinschildrens.org/staffDetail.aspx?id=3290
This and many more, he has only a dozen cases of legal cases for somebody who has been doing more than the average amount of surgery " Carson’s career moved along relatively smoothly, even while performing as many as 400 operations per year – a high caseload for neurosurgeons." http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/04/ben-carson-malpractice-claims-doctor-for-president
If anything his stunning record should be displayed as well as the negative things that may have occured.
Maybe this will be removed, but i just wanted to say I would really like a neurosurgeon with around almost 30 years of service as a pediatric neurosurgeon to have more than 1 or 2 lines about his medical career and about 2 pages worth about his crazy political views. Majorlegend ( talk) 22:31, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Please simply delete the current paragraphs 2, 3, and 4 under the heading SURGEON and, in place of the last paragraph, simply state the date of his retirement. I agree with the comments above, that those paragraphs are obviously worded by opponents and are not objective. They are unworthy of Wikipedia, which is supposed to be objective. The simplest way to deal with them is to delete them.
Given the media pile on/serious investigation of Carson's various assertions about his life history and other matters, I think it deserves a separate section, which I created, partly with new content and partly from pasting text from other sections. This is a rough draft and needs obvious improvement. In particular, until this new section undergoes further editing, I intentionally did not delete redundant material in other sections, but, as we edit this article together, I expect that to happen. This is also an especial plea not to revert this long addition to the article. Please, please improve, don't delete. With your help, I will continue to work on it. Lahaun ( talk) 03:19, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
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Winkelvi reversed my addition (see diff) with a note that said, among other things, that this Wikipedia article is not about Dr. Carson's medical career. I have to disagree, given that, for lack of prior political office, and for the fact his secondary writing and motivational speaking career is predicated on his medical achievements, his record as a surgeon is very much worthy of encyclopedic coverage. I'm up for better NPOV wording if that's what's called for, but I do think the fact that two of Carson's four twin separations subsequent to the Binder operation resulted in both twins dying, and one of those operations resulted in one twin dying and the other left legally blind and struggling to walk, is relevant to his career biography. Particularly so, I think, because he's made his twin separation surgeries a central part of the narrative he's presented to the public as a candidate. I also think yesterday's New York Times article on his surgical career and reputation at Hopkins, from which these facts were drawn, has further utility as a Wikipedia source and its link should not be deleted, even if some of its content might jar with perceptions preferred by the Carson campaign. I'm not trying to create a "fail list", as Winkelvi contends. Perhaps we can also note that Carson took on many cases other surgeons would not touch? Or that he was not the first or only to separate twins joined at the head, but that Hopkins apparently publicized the Binder operation in 1987, in many ways preparing the spotlight for Carson? That's also in this and other articles. Open to discussion... Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:18, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. Carson career is fair game in his bio, and that includes not only successes but also failures. I am amazed that we are having this discussion. Tagged as such. - Cwobeel (talk) 01:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello. So, two days ago the NYT published an article about Carson which was mostly about his medical career. I found that article quite balanced and informative. The way I remember it, it said that Carson was a star surgeon, and explained why, but also that this stardom was probably not fully deserved, and explained why. Meanwhile, when I read the "Surgeon" section in our article, I found it neither balanced, neither informative. What it says is that Carson was a surgeon and that he was not good at separating twins. My point is, we definitely have to talk about the outcome of the twin separation(s), but if that makes up 50% of the section, it is undue weight. Thanks, Biwom ( talk) 16:18, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Excellent article covering an attempt by Carson to solving America's health care system: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/carsoncare-the-doctors-needy-patients-fund-that-went-nowhere-216111 - A section on this would be a worthy addition. - Cwobeel (talk) 18:41, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
I removed the drbencarson.com link since it is no longer up Vickfan This link is now working (checked 7/17/2007) Teamember 02:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
While in principal I dig the idea, I have a really hard time buying it from a guy who is a Seventh Day Adventist. Such a belief system for a neurosurgeon is...illogical. Quigonpaj ( talk) 19:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
I went ahead and removed the quotes section of the article. None of the quotes seemed too terribly important to the article, and no citations were provided for any of them. — Mears man 00:50, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Ben Carson's mother (Sonya Carson) to be so successful —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.105.208.31 ( talk) 23:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I might point out that "pre-med" is not a major, just a series of undergraduate courses required of hopeful future doctors. So, what did Carson actually major in? Lolliapaulina51 ( talk) 17:39, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
is sourced from publications by the author. I intend to remove anything that cannot be sourced from third party sources. DGG ( talk) 05:45, 31 January 2008 (UTC) someone seems to have done it a little too enthusiastically. I have removed the most irrelevant part. I ask again for sources on the rest, reminding everyone of WP:BLP and WP:V. DGG ( talk) 07:02, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
President Obama and the First Lady heard Dr Benjamin Carson take exception to many current administration policies and positions. He delivered his thoughts on a wide range of issues in a light-hearted and positive manner at the annual National Prayer Breakfast. With his comments, he has entered the universe of 'politics' whether he wants to or not. Where it goes from here "will yet be seen" . . . [1]
Here are the comments from a leader in the Conservative Movement: (You can read the comments of Rush Limbaugh via his website, RushLimbaugh.com)
RUSH: Whoa! Right on. Did you hear that? This guy is talking to Obama. Obama's sitting there, and Dr. Carson is saying, "People say... 'Well, that's not fair because it doesn't hurt the guy who made $10 billion as much as the guy who made ten.' Where does it say you have to hurt the guy? He just put a billion dollars in the pot!" So this neurosurgeon is speaking out in favor of the 1%, the 5%, the 10% who are actually paying the freight in this country via income taxes. They're the ones actually paying the freight. What do we gotta hurt 'em for? I mean, they're already putting money in the pot. Why do we gotta hurt 'em?
He's exactly right. And then he says: You want to know why we got 602 banks in the Caymans with American money? Because they're running away. They don't want to be hurt.
I love this guy. He wasn't finished, either.
CARSON: Here's my solution: When a person is born, give him a birth certificate, an electronic medical record, and a health savings account to which money can be contributed -- pretax -- from the time you're born 'til the time you die. When you die, you can pass it on to your family members, so that when you're 85 years old and you got six diseases, you're not trying to spend up everything. You're happy to pass it on and there's nobody talking about death panels.
AUDIENCE: (laughter and applause) [2] — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 12:25, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Can we link to the transcript? Where can you find a transcript of his keynote? Very few places!
One place is freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2986815/posts . . . which is "black-listed" on Wikipedia. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 01:32, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
As I watched the Glenn Beck program today, I wrote what Dr Benjamin Carson said as he was interviewed:
Could someone please add some information about his public views prior to Obama's administration. Was he pro-Iraq war and pro-spending during the Bush administration? What has he expressed in the past publicly? He's been an adult for some time now yet very little is listed in this page. Thanks. 101.51.136.60 ( talk) 07:53, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Rand Paul won the straw poll for president; Ben Carson won their hearts! Conservatives are very excited about the wisdom and clarity that comes from Dr Carson. Here are four references: [3] "Ben Carson at CPAC"; [4] “Did Ben Carson Hint at a 2016 Run for President During CPAC Speech?”; [5] “DR. BEN CARSON RALLIES CONSERVATIVES AT CPAC, HINTS AT WHITE HOUSE RUN”; and, from the WSJ, [6] “Ben Carson for President — The Johns Hopkins neurosurgeon has two big ideas for America.” — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 10:14, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Ben Carson's article reads like a marketing plant. Who is his agent? Wikipietime ( talk) 03:20, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
The subject of this article has not yet retired, although it is announced. It is stated in reliable sources that he plan to retire, but doesn't give a specific date. Therefore, do not state that he has retired per WP:CRYSTALBALL, let us wait until a reliable source has verified that the retirement has occurred.-- RightCowLeftCoast ( talk) 00:35, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
BLPN discussion here. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 05:46, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Regarding gay marriage, this article contains negative material (e.g. "nasty, petty, and ill-informed"), which is fine. I'm not a censor trying to skew Wikipedia content, and therefore am not suggesting to remove any negative material. But this article gives no clue that Carson favors equal rights to a considerable degree, and no clue that his comments were compared to those of a famous Democratic judge. We could add:
Carson has clarified that outside of "marriage" he believes "gay people should have all the rights anyone else has". Meanwhile, Megyn Kelly of Fox News compared Carson's controversial remark to a recent concern expressed by Justice Sonya Sotomayor.
Cites: Kelly, Megyn, America Live with Megyn Kelly, Fox News (March 29, 2013), Fox News Video (accessed August 16, 2013).
"Group of Johns Hopkins Med School Students Want Dr. Ben Carson Replaced as Commencement Speaker After Gay Marriage Comments"", Fox News Insider (March 29, 2013).
These sources are reliable news stories. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:04, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm not seeing the need to artifically "balance" our coverage of this controversy by adding the opinion of a cable-news talking head. Carson's comments were widely remarked upon by cable-news talking heads of all partisan stripes. Why highlight only Megyn Kelly's take? If we choose to go down this road (which I think would be a mistake), then we're obligated to provide a more representative sampling of reactions, rather than just selecting an apologist viewpoint from FoxNews.
Finally, it seems you've already raised this proposal at WP:BLP/N, where outside editors thought it wasn't an improvement and in fact introduced significant BLP concerns ( [7]). MastCell Talk 04:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
I've put in a new top image, and moved the old one down. Also organized the political section chronologically. Replaced some redundant material in the gay marriage material (he loves everyone the same) with a quote where he clarifies that outside of "marriage" he believes "gay people should have all the rights anyone else has". Anythingyouwant ( talk) 07:07, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
This page is looking like Carson's personal website. I don't think his wikipage is supposed to include month-to-month status reports on Carson's latest speaking engagements. Thus, removing them. -- Petzl ( talk) 01:53, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
(Outdent)Well, I guess the best place for you to look would be WP:Preserve: "Instead of deleting text, consider:
I agree with Anythingyouwant. Most of the content that you removed is notable and supported by multiple reliable sources establishing that. The article doesn't appear to list every speech or event, but just the ones that have garnered attention due to some notoriety or criticism he's received from them. Unless there is clear violation of Wikipedia policy, there is no justification for a mass deletion. Rather, this appears to be a difference of opinion in which case you should establish the consensus of editors here before making large changes like that. - Maximusveritas ( talk) 20:02, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article says:
“ | Carson has written four bestselling books published by Zondervan, an international Christian media and publishing company: Gifted Hands, The Big Picture, Take the Risk, and Think Big. The first book is an autobiography and two are about his personal philosophies of success that incorporate hard work and a faith in God. | ” |
There is also a list of his publications at the bottom of the article. So, do people view the above paragraph as redundant? It seems to include some interesting stuff ("bestselling", "autobiography", etc). The reason I ask is because another editor has suggested deleting it. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
I have no objection to including third-party reaction to his gay marriage comments, including the quote from the Hopkins professor saying that what Carson said appeared to be "nasty, petty, and ill-informed". But, as I pointed out several months ago, it is lopsided to exclude all third-party reactions defending Carson. WP:NPOV requires some neutrality. So, I would suggest inserting this sentence:
“ | While his remarks were condemned as offensive at Johns Hopkins, Megyn Kelly of Fox News pointed out that U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sonya Sotomayor had recently asked whether gay marriage would lead to incest and polygamy being allowed.[1] | ” |
“ | [1] "Group of Johns Hopkins Med School Students Want Dr. Ben Carson Replaced as Commencement Speaker After Gay Marriage Comments"", Fox News Insider (March 29, 2013). | ” |
Even if the Hopkins quote were simply described instead of quoted (which I am not suggesting we should do), still I don't think quoting Carson himself in any way justifies excluding all third-party comments in his defense, given the inclusion of criticism by third parties. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 22:38, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
I read through the section being discussed here and it seem fine to me; however, why give twice as much coverage to this as to the section that follows that is twice as important? (Criticism of Affordable Care Act) The emphasis is backwards. His criticism of Obamacare is far more important. — Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 05:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The first sentence in this section says, “ Memphis business Academy of Achievement, and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans.” Does it mean to say, “Carson received the Memphis business Academy of Achievement and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans” (omitted comma; words in bold are suggested to be added)? — The Sackinator ( talk) 17:32, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
[http://www.wnd.com/2014/02/ben-carson-obama-officials-acting-like-gestapo/ >> Ben Carson: Obama officials 'acting like Gestapo'] Lihaas ( talk) 20:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Whereabouts in "rural Georgia" was his family from? Zigzig20s ( talk) 01:53, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Some are criticizing Carson for using a Lenin quote that is in question: “Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.” ― Vladimir Lenin[ 1] 72.161.222.69 ( talk) 02:27, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
I believe the attribution under political affiliation that he supports "banning automatic weapons in large cities" is a mistake. The quotes I've found all refer to semiautomatic weapons. Automatic weapons are exceedingly rare and used in very few crimes. I don't have an original source so I won't change it myself. Here's one quote, though: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/03/04/dr_benjamin_carson_on_gun_control_it_depends_on_where_you_live.html 24.199.195.38 ( talk) 00:19, 17 June 2014 (UTC)del
I'm copying this here from my talk page:
I simply removed the word "evangelical" that said Ben Carson was an evangelical Christian. For years the evangelical movement labeled Seventh-day Adventists (SDA's) as a cult and wanted nothing to do with them. SDA's, although they believe in evangelism, they do not consider themselves evangelicals and neither does anyone else; Just like Baptist's don't consider themselves to be evangelicals. Ben Carson considers himself a devout Christian and an Adventist, but to throw the word evangelical really is an assumption and is POV. If you can show me otherwise, I truly stand and differenciate evangelicals and SDA's. -- Maniwar ( talk) 12:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually Baptists do consider themselves to be Evangelical. [1] Chryslerfan ( talk) 17:50, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
References
I think that Dr. Ben Carson is an Evangelical. I also think that many people 'out there' seem to have issues in sorting out the conceptual content of what that designation includes or might include or could include. The rise of vegetarian and vegan Presidential candidates in the USA is, IMO, a matter of note also! This one is conservative; others (like Cory Booker and Dennis Kucinich) are unabashed liberals. MaynardClark ( talk) 14:59, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
The article contains far too many quotes from Dr. Carson for an encyclopedia article, making this more of an autobiography than a biography. There is also too much reliance on certain sources like this American Thinker article. I would like to address these concerns by removing some of less notable quotes, and as appropriate, replacing some quotes with third party analysis. Are there any objections before I get started, or does anyone have any favorite quotes that they just can't live without?- Mr X 19:36, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
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Under Views on marriage and evolution the abbreviation used for Southern Poverty Law Center is SLPC. It should be SPLC.
Please change SLPC to SPLC
I'd correct the typo myself but the page is locked.
118.208.81.2 (
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Why is calling a governmental official a czar acceptable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.12.11.116 ( talk) 02:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I object to this edit by Nemd57. For one thing, it has a broken cite. It relies on a primary source which is not preferable, largely because of the potential for misuse. In this case, selected quotes were taken out of context, resulting in a non-neutral presentation. Also, the parenthetical "(according to the SPLC's page on him)" is not a good construct.
I'm open to finding a compromise wording for this paragraph, but I will be pretty insistent on using analysis in good secondary sources.- Mr X 01:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I'll agree to using the source you suggested, which pretty much says what my summary did (complete with the same quote from the SPLC's website that I used). I can draw up a draft unless you want to. Nemd57 ( talk) 22:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
He is popular at the Conservative Political Action Conference gleaming 4th place in the final straw poll. [10] -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 22:51, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Consideration for inclusion; Ben Carson: Prisons show homosexuality is a choice because inmates go in straight, leave gay. Tarc ( talk) 14:47, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
I sometimes get notifications when changes are made to this article, but for some reason, I'm not always notified when changes are made. Any suggestions as to why? Thanks! The Sackinator ( talk) 02:36, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Ben Carson almost killed his friend because they disagreed on a radio station. His friend was injured after that the blade that he had broke on the friend's belt buckle. After so he ran to his house locked the door and read his bible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.83.54.4 ( talk) 22:57, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Is this a reasonable source enough? http://www.biography.com/people/ben-carson-475422#anger-issues — Preceding unsigned comment added by Voss749 ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
What is a West Point scholarship? There is no tuition at West Point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.2.15.253 ( talk) 16:00, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
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I think a sentence or two about Ben Carson plagiarizing should in be this article.
It is well known that Ben Carson plagiarized parts of his 2012 book "America the Beautiful". He even publicly issued an apology for his plagiarism. You can look at this comparison for further proof.
Cpaloia ( talk) 16:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
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21:32, 4 May 2015 (UTC)This article is not NPOV, and missing significant criticism of Carson. Here are some sources that could be used in this regard.
- Cwobeel (talk) 00:56, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
The political views section is very poor. It engages in gotcha quotes, without providing any indication of attempts to represent that actual nature of Dr. Carson's views on the various issues mentioned. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:42, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello. Before, I added information on Ben Carson's views regarding czars; it was removed because I only referenced one third party source. However, wouldn't that mean that his views on gun control also should be removed? There is only one source given for his views on gun control, and other than it, it doesn't seem that there is much in the media on his opposition to conservatives' views on gun control. Do the two issues stand and fall together? If so, should we have his views on both czars and gun control in the article, or should we do away with them altogether? — The Sackinator ( talk) 22:31, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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I would like to add that Dr. Ben Carson announced that we will run for President on Monday, May 4th officially and made a speech at the Detroit's Music Hall Center for the Performing Arts. IllegalTrash ( talk) 12:20, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello. I found the citation to verify this statement. However, it's already used in this article (it's the 110th citation/note, specifically the first sentence of its third paragraph), and I don't know how to cite a single reference multiple times in an article. Help would be greatly appreciated! — The Sackinator ( talk) 19:15, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Do you think this article could have a chance as a featured article? If so, what needs to be done? A response will be appreciated! — The Sackinator ( talk) 23:16, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
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Awards and honors
Carson is a member of the American Academy of Achievement, and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans. Carson has been awarded 38 honorary doctorate degrees and dozens of national merit citations.[31]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 01:59, 6 June 2015 (UTC) Specific description for this edit request: 1) to re-organize this sub-section using the more traditional bullet point display and 2) include the highest honor given by the NAACP in this list of Awards and honors. Also, to include the earlier approved Lincoln Medal from Ford's Theatre. Ljhammond14 ( talk) 14:39, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
References
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{{Infobox scientist |birth_name = Benjamin Solomon Carson |image = Ben Carson by Gage Skidmore 3.jpg |image_size = 220 |caption = Carson speaking in 2015 |birth_date = Detroit, Michigan, United States |party = Republican |spouse =
September 18, 1951 |birth_place =|children = 3 sons:
Murray
Benjamin, Jr. "B.J."
Rhoeyce
[1]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 02:43, 6 June 2015 (UTC) The specific description of the edit request: To correct the birth order of his children from oldest to youngest. Citation is Carson introducing his children and identifying their birth order at his campaign announcement, May 4, 2015, in Detroit, MI.
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Personal life
Carson and his wife, Lacena "Candy" Rustin, met in 1971 as students at Yale University. They married in 1975 and have three sons: Murray, Benjamin Jr. "B.J.", and Rhoeyce.[84] They live in West Friendship, Maryland, and are members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.[98][99]
Carson was baptized at Burns Seventh-day Adventist Church on Detroit's eastside. A few years later he told the pastor at a church in Inkster, Michigan where he was attending that he had not fully understood his first baptism and wanted to be baptized again, so he was. He has served as a local elder and Sabbath school teacher in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.[100] His mother was a devout Seventh-day Adventist.[101] [1]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 14:26, 6 June 2015 (UTC) a specific description of the edit request: 1) I corrected the birth order here as above, of his sons. He introduced them in this video, including their birth order. 2) I changed Inkster, Michigan that to Inkster, Michigan where. 3. Last, I corrected the spelling of his church from Seventh-Day Adventist to Seventh-day Adventist. This is all I know to correct now. No new information included; only corrections. Thanks for your help, editors. :-) Lois Ljhammond14 ( talk) 14:26, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
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Awards and honors
Carson is a member of the American Academy of Achievement, and the Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans. Carson has been awarded 38 honorary doctorate degrees and dozens of national merit citations.[31]
Ljhammond14 ( talk) 06:27, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
It would seem fair to me to include Dr. Carson's receipt of the Lincoln Medal because of the precedent set by Zoe Dell Nutter, Board of Trustees, Ford's Theatre Society in 2005; Dr. Maya Angelou, Civil Rights Activist in 2008, the same year Dr. Carson received it too, and Lee Kuan Yew, Minister Mentor of Singapore in 2011. Nutter, Angelou and Yew all appear in Wikipedia and their Medals are mentioned. With your approval, I would like to re-submit a Request to Edit and include this Medal on his page. Also, since you mentioned that this important Medal does not have its own wiki page, I am happy to volunteer to create this new page. I'm please that Wikipedia deemed this a notable honor before, exactly on his year and after. Please, let's correct this omission now and let me know if you would like for me to build the new article. Here's a description of the honor:
The Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medal is an annual award given to individuals who, through their body of work, accomplishments or personal attributes, exemplify the lasting legacy, and mettle of character embodied by the most beloved President in our Nation’s history, President Abraham Lincoln.
Traditionally, the Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medal is given to recipients at the Ford’s Theatre benefit, which is held annually in the theatre where President Abraham Lincoln was shot on April 14, 1865.
Recipients Recipients of Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medals should illuminate or reflect Lincoln’s legacy of leadership, service, humanity, wisdom, eloquence and vision in their body of work, accomplishments or personal attributes. As Ford’s Theatre serves as a connection point and reminder of Lincoln’s legacy, so must the recipients of Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medals, helping us understand the beloved 16th President’s lasting impact in a contemporary light, and how it continues to inspire generations of Americans.
The Executive Committee of the Board of Trustees of Ford’s Theatre Society evaluates and determines who will receive Ford’s Theatre Lincoln Medals. [3]
Thank you for your consideration. Ljhammond14 ( talk) 03:09, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Done Of course the list of awards will not be exhaustive (if we have a lot of awards), but it only includes 1 other, so I don't think it's a major problem to include just 2. While Lincoln Medal is a redlink now, it might not be forever, and being recognized by the president and several large medical bodies seems significant enough to deserve a brief mention to me. If anyone disagrees, please feel free to revert me and discuss it further. Thanks. — Jess· Δ ♥ 04:44, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
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Please add: The National Draft Ben Carson for President Committee helped successfully make the retired neurosurgeon the first candidate successfully drafted for president since 1964, when Republican Barry Goldwater, an early leader of the modern American conservative movement, won the GOP nomination.
Source: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/inside-the-super-pacs-putting-ben-carson-on-top/article/2566819 Bpw6 ( talk) 17:21, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Talk:Rick_Perry#RFC_about_whether_his_presidential_candidacy_should_be_mentioned_in_the_lead_paragraph Anythingyouwant ( talk) 15:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
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The Southern Poverty Law Center libeled Dr. Ben Carson, and when they got called on it, they removed his name from their hit list, and gave a public apology. Those are the facts. Any more than that is merely the SPLC trying to justify its libel, and claim that its position is supported by their nebulous reference to "most people." So as not to make Wikipedia appear to be a party to such speculative and biased opinion, the last part of the quote from the SPLC should be deleted, namely: "We've also come to the conclusion that the question of whether a better-researched profile of Dr. Carson should or should not be included in our 'Extremist Files' is taking attention from the fact that Dr. Carson has, in fact, made a number of statements that express views that we believe most people would conclude are extreme." RHVF ( talk) 16:36, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
I have added a short section on Dr. Carson's position on abortion and use of fetal tissue harvested from abortions in medical research. HandsomeMrToad ( talk) 22:24, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
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In External links, below his campaign website link, please add this template:
71.23.178.214 ( talk) 15:16, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
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"The speech was garnered Carson considerable attention" should be changed to "The speech garnered Carson considerable attention" 86.138.44.143 ( talk) 23:51, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Greetings. I would like to suggest that Dr. Carson's writing be all in one place at the end of the article, as it is in every other Wikipedia article. A list of journals and a list of articles does not belong under "Medical career". Also, why do you list every book he wrote twice? Once in the prose and once in the bibliography. Thank you. - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:19, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Done. Sorry to anybody who dislikes templates. - SusanLesch ( talk) 00:32, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
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Under the Abortion heading, there is misleading information about the subject's views. The source cited itself proves that the statement in the article, "advocates tissue harvested from abortions for medical research" is inaccurate, as the source [59] states that he advocates using tissue from already dead tissue rather than aborted tissue, implying that miscarried fetal tissue or other deceased tissue not from abortions. Please fix this misinformation. Myson1202 ( talk) 02:34, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
Done Thank you for identifying this issue. I have edited the page to match recent statements and to clarify with neutral material. If you have any further recommendations please open a new request and be specific on what to place on the page with good references. This will help other editors make the changes more quickly. Inomyabcs ( talk) 15:40, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
The photo of Carson in scrubs in the "Medical career" section is dated 2013. While the NIST website says the file was created in 2013 by V. Aceveda of the U.S. Air Force, [14] that doesn't appear to be when the photo was taken. A June 2009 article by Veronica Aceveda on the Air Force website includes it as the second photo in a clickable gallery, [15] but the article doesn't indicate Aceveda ever met with or spoke to Carson, as the article is about a son of a military member who was given an award at an event where Carson was in the audience. It's not clear if Aceveda was the actual photographer or if there was a mixup with the photo credit, because a CNN article from February 2009 credits Johns Hopkins University for what appears to be another photo in the same series, with the same backdrop, outfit, facial hair style and length and minimal gray hair pattern and hair length. [16] Indeed, that Johns Hopkins-credited photo appears on a page on the Johns Hopkins website that is copyrighted 2004. [17] The version of the photo used on Wikipedia even appears to have been included in a 2003 article in Philanthropy magazine, [18] though perhaps the photo was added afterward. The "Sears portrait studio"-style background seems a lot more likely to have been for a staff photo (like from Johns Hopkins) than for a photo taken by a reporter. If this is not actually a photo taken by a government employee for a U.S. government publication, it may not comply with Wikipedia's image use policy. Pdxuser ( talk) 17:25, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
I have added a very short section on Dr. Carson's view of the Big Bang theory. HandsomeMrToad ( talk) 09:34, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
The sentence indicating that Carson believes that retrograde orbits are a violation of conservation of momentum is accurate, but doesn't take it far enough. He believes (same reference) that such orbits are proof of the invalidity of the Big Bang theory. Jestertrek ( talk) 14:09, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
“I’m not gonna denigrate you because of your faith and you shouldn’t denigrate me for mine. And that’s the kind of attitude, you know – that’s the kind of attitude that I think is very important in the society in which we live today.”
You know, and if you go back and you look at -- what I would like for somebody to show me is an improved Islamic text that opposes sharia. Let me see -- if you can show me that, I will begin to alter my thinking on this. But right now, when you have something that is against the rights of women, against the rights of gays, subjugates other religions, and a host of things that are not compatible with our Constitution, why in fact would you take that chance?
This article on Ben Carson perpetuates an oft-repeated error when it says: "He is known for being the first surgeon to separate conjoined twins. . . "
Dr. Carson is definitely not the first surgeon to separate conjoined twins. The earliest successful separation of male conjoined twins occurred in 1952. The earliest successful separation of female conjoined twins was in 1961. See web page Conjoined Twins Info, as of August 2007 ( [1])
Oldest Conjoined Male Twins (Living) - 1952 – Ronnie & Donnie Galyon (USA, October 28 1952). They are omphalopagus. Oldest Conjoined Female Twins (Living) - 1961 – Lori and Reba Schappell (USA, September 18 1961). They are craniopagus.
The twins in the Carson surgery were conjoined at the head but Carson is not the first surgeon to separate twins joined at the head. The first successful separation of twins conjoined at the head occurred in 1955 at Mercy Hospital in Chicago. The Chicago Daily Tribune reported the surgery on April 22, 1955. The web page, Conjoined Twins in the World, As Of August 2007 ( [2]),includes this event in its list: "Andrews (Illinois, October 1 1954) girls, Deborah, Christine (craniopagus, separated April 21 1955)."
Carson's noteworthy accomplishment was the separation of twins joined at the back of the head. But it wasn't just his accomplishment as the surgical team included 70 people.
2601:441:C100:5AE1:D127:3E00:2417:C7AC ( talk) 19:57, 13 October 2015 (UTC) Rosemary Schwedes
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For context, the content removed is this, dealing with the separation of church and state: "A conflict between the views of Carson and the GOP base has been noted: "... Dr. Carson's primary challenge is going to be his struggle to marry the Adventist view of separation of church and state with the counter view of much of the Republican base, which calls for tearing at the wall between church and state." [1]
Bullrangifer there's some crufty material in the religion section - Carson stated in the 2013 interview that his "debates" with Dawkins and Dennett in 2006 netted him negative attention - it violates WP:RECENTISM to push opinion pieces from the last month only.
Per WP:ONUS the onus is on people proposing the addition of material to justify it's importance and relevance in ten years time. Weasel phrases like "it has been noted" are a common way to couch bullshit.
SDA theology has a lot of unscientific beliefs, there needs to be primary sources on what Carson has said and reactions should be kept to a minimum - and ones that should be included need a clear standard as to why it matters and others don't.-- Callinus ( talk) 06:06, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
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Why in the hell aint there a section on this guys views about Education? He plans on having the US Department of Education monitor political speech in universities. Why isn't that in there? You people! https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/21/ben-carsons-education-department-would-p — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.172.156.159 ( talk) 04:11, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
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06:01, 22 October 2015 (UTC)Bill Clinton was not impeached by Republicans for an extramarital affair. He was impeached for lying under oath about a U.S. citizen, Paula Jones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.74.131 ( talk) 19:00, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
I just saw this rather odd story on Twitter: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/27/wikipedia-trolls-tie-ben-carson-pedophiles-top-google-search-results/
I am posting it here because it's about Ben Carson's Wikipedia page. Kind of strange. Schematica ( talk) 19:49, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
While Dr. Carson was obviously a talented and pioneering neurosurgeon, the article fails to mention that since his retirement he has embraced a number of highly-questionable anti-science positions. These include an at least partial anti-vaccine position:
http://www.politifact.com/georgia/statements/2015/sep/23/ben-carson/carson-wrong-vaccine-claim/
...and personal involvement with a snake-oil supplement company, Mannatech, currently being investigated for making illegal "cancer cure" claims for its products:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/396193/ben-carsons-troubling-connection-jim-geraghty http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/10/09/mannatech-ben-carsons-lack-of-critical-thinking-skills-extends-to-medicine-as-well/
It seems like these significant deviations from standard medical practice and research ought to be at least mentioned in the article, for the sake of completeness.
I would have added them myself, but editing for this article seems to be broken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 ( talk) 23:44, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
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Ben Carson's office calls people with the number <redacted>. It is an automated call,with a recording that does not really work. People find it annoying. It is a spam. Please tell Ben Carson to stop calling people with the <redacted> Thank you. 24.177.118.100 ( talk) 04:48, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
Per WP:Summary style, it looks like time to start Political positions of Ben Carson, which currently redirects back here.. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 05:03, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
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-- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:45, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Since this came up in the debate, here are some more sources (including one about this coming up in the debate):
-- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:30, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I'll add:
-- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:04, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
This news story from October 29 seems useful too:
Carson's position is evidently that the only thing he was paid for was speaking per standard speaking fees he received from other groups. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 07:38, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
In the section on "political positions" there's a subsection titled "creationism". I deleted it because, as I said in the edit summary, it's "peripheral to section titled 'political positions'. This info can be found at main article on political positions."
This whole section on "political positions" is supposed to be a mere summary of what's at political positions of ben carson, per wp:summary style. This detailed material about evolution is at best peripheral relative to his political positions, and therefore it's not necessary in a summary of those political positions. The info is available in the article political positions of ben carson, and I support keeping the info there in that article, because it is related (tangentially) to Carson's general opposition to what he deems excessive "political correctness". There is much material there in that article that is not suitable in a summary here in this article.
Moreover, there is no separate section or subsection for "creationism" or "evolution" in political positions of ben carson, so the material that I deleted here in this article seems contrary to wp:summary style for that reason as well. (Incidentally, I don't think that the word "creationism" is as familiar as the word "evolution" notwithstanding that "creationism" would come before "evolution" alphabetically.) Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:47, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
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This article lists Ben Carson's ethnicity as "African-American".
This field is not required for other people, specifically Bobby Jindal who would be listed as "Indian-American".
Yet the article does not state which of Ben's parents are African to warrant the term "African". His skin color is not enough justification to speculate on ethnicity. -- 14.3.207.97 ( talk) 13:07, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
This article uses Facebook for sources, such as for saying that Ben Carson supports civil unions. I attempted to use Facebook to be more specific on Ben Carson's fetal tissue-controversy—to show that he says his only involvement was "supplying tumors ... removed from ... patients" and that neither he "nor any of the doctors involved with this study, had anything to do with abortion or what Planned Parenthood has been doing." May I use this source? If not, are there any more reliable sources that depict his response this specifically? — The Sackinator ( talk) 21:51, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
There are inconsistencies on this page regarding Ben Carson's college education. First paragraph is incorrect. It states, "Born into poverty in Detroit, Michigan and a graduate of the Yale School of Medicine,"
Dr. Carson did not graduate from the Yale School of Medicine. The synopsis on the right margin of the page has the correct information.
Dr. Carson got his undergraduate degree from Yale University, and his M.D. from The University of Michigan.
Doriansnow ( talk) 21:04, 3 November 2015 (UTC)doriansnow
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Hi there,
Please change "Born into poverty in Detroit, Michigan and a graduate of the Yale School of Medicine" (found in the introduction to the article)
to "Born into poverty in Detroit, Michigan and a graduate of Yale University and the University of Michigan Medical School".
For reference, see here. Furthermore, other references from his Wiki article confirm this fact.
Thanks!
Dranian ( talk) 13:40, 4 November 2015 (UTC) Dranian
Hello. In this article we have a quotation where Carson says "you know" three times, in addition to the false start "it's just, we're changing..." Such a quotation would normally be edited in the printed press, without ellipsis I believe. I checked our manual of style though, and did not find anything on the matter. What do you think? Biwom ( talk) 09:05, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Some of Carson's beliefs are quite extraordinary, such as [30]. A section about these views would be a great addition to this article. - Cwobeel (talk) 21:38, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Winkelvi Can you stop with this Undue business? The Bible is a Jewish book, it's quite relevant that he's contradicting the actual book he's trying to quote! Ariel. ( talk) 19:35, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
This section needs to be rewritten:
In his book Gifted Hands, Carson relates that, in his youth, he had a violent temper. He once tried to hit his mother over the head with a hammer over a clothes dispute and, while in the ninth grade, he nearly stabbed a friend who had changed the station on the radio. [1] [2] After this incident, he began reading the Book of Proverbs and applying verses on anger. As a result, Carson states he "never had another problem with temper". [3] [4] [5]
MaynardClark ( talk) 01:11, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
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The article is quickly becoming a quote farm. We need less quotations from Carson in this article, not more. Time to write it in prose, not just endlessly copying and pasting quotes. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 04:25, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
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CLIMATE CHANGE SECTION: Carson rejects the scientific consensus that human activity causes climate change; in November 2014 he said that "there's always going to be either cooling or warming going on" and that he found the debate on climate change to be "irrelevant" and a distraction from protecting the environment.[84]
In 2015, after Carson expressed his disbelief about the scientific consensus on climate change, at a Commonwealth Club forum in San Francisco,[85] After this statement, Governor Jerry Brown of California sent Carson a flash drive containing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Synthesis Report, which details the scientific evidence of human impact on climate change.[85][86] Carson response, to the San Francisco Chronicle, was that "There is no overwhelming science that the things that are going on are man-caused and not naturally caused."[85][86]
GRAMMAR CHANGES BELOW:
Carson rejects the scientific consensus that human activity causes climate change; in November 2014 he said that "there's always going to be either cooling or warming going on" and that he found the debate on climate change to be "irrelevant" and a distraction from protecting the environment.[84]
In 2015 Carson expressed his disbelief about the scientific consensus on climate change at a Commonwealth Club forum in San Francisco.[85] After this statement, Governor Jerry Brown of California sent Carson a flash drive containing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Synthesis Report, which details the scientific evidence of human impact on climate change.[85][86] In response to the San Francisco Chronicle Carson said, "There is no overwhelming science that the things that are going on are man-caused and not naturally caused."[85][86] RK4uIek9cN ( talk) 19:32, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Discussion for proposal for section title change -- the title centers on "the media" which is so specific that any comments from outside "the media" would not be proper in this long-ish section. Also, saying "credibility" is perhaps too harsh and focuses on the person, rather than the statements. Something like "historical accuracy" would focus on the comments and claims themselves, rather than the "credibility" of Carson the person. Therefore, some alternatives:
Feel free to propose other alternatives. -- Fuzheado | Talk 16:07, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Ben_Carson#Yale_psychology_class - This section needs a lot of editing consolidation and cleaning up. -- Fuzheado | Talk 02:13, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
In an April 2014 Op-Ed in the ' Washington Times', Carson wrote that he was the victim of an apparent shakedown by an unnamed woman in Florida who claimed he was the father of her son. Carson said he refused to submit a DNA sample to the State of Florida, on the grounds that the government (in general) was so irresponsible they would probably have linked him to a murder somewhere, and the paternity matter was resolved without further complications. The ' Washington Post' has also covered this story, emphasizing that, if the story (which was previously unknown to journalists) is true as Carson wrote it up, it's a rather bizarre way of making a "humblebrag" about having only slept with one woman in his life, his wife. Not sure if or how we should include this story, though it may help explain Carson's comment last week that the media thinks "there must be nurse out there somewhere". But if it gets more traction, we'll need a short section. It doesn't help that his credibility and biographical anecdote-telling is under fire. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:44, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
This article made the Wikipedia:Top 25 Report at number seven with 584,606 views for the week November 1 to 7, 2015. It was also number eleven the week before and number seven the week before that. Congratulations to the editors of this article for the exposure of their work. SchreiberBike | ⌨ 20:02, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps these two sections should be merged? --- Another Believer ( Talk) 23:16, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
What was his status during the Vietnam War? Born in 1951 he would have been subject to the draft and the lottery. Robinrobin ( talk) 02:30, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
The following statement is undue and not relevant for inclusion in Carson's BLP:
“ | At the fourth Republican debate, Carson said that just "19.8 percent of black teens have a job who are looking for one", but The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that 74.4 percent of them have jobs. | ” |
CFredkin ( talk) 20:16, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Ben Carson said that just “19.8 percent of black teens have a job who are looking for one.”Not quite. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the unemployment rate for African-Americans between 16 and 19 years old is 25.6 percent. In other words, 74.4 percent of them have jobs, almost four times what Carson said.- Cwobeel (talk)
A correct statement would be this: "Zero percent of black teenagers have a job, who are looking for one". After all, people who have a job are not looking for a job (though some of them may be looking for another job). So I doubt we should say that the correct percentage is 74.4. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 00:26, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
I would suuggest that the Ben Carson article should provide more detail about the outcome of the Binder twins, such as
...In 1987, Carson successfully separated conjoined twins, the Binder twins, who had been joined at the back of the head (craniopagus twins). The 70-member surgical team, led by Carson, worked for 22 hours. Both twins survived, albeit each with significant brain damage.
Bee Cliff River Slob ( talk) 14:29, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
[I just realised there is an edit request, my apologies please add this as an edit request - I am new here ] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Majorlegend ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
I think the article is now biased beyond reason on his achievement. This man has for the better part for his life been a world class neurosurgeon who got there by sheer hard work with a poor mother supporting him.
It's wonderful that you think the United States is a meritocracy. Now can we stick to the facts?
As much as I think his political views are insane. I don't think it's fair to reduce his medical career to one or two paragraphs. And for the lines mentioned his expertise with other types of neurosurgery to be left with [citation needed]
It's sad to see people trash this guy just because the media has said one or two bad things about him. I had read this same wiki years ago and his medical career has been completely destroyed unfairly. This is reddit hive mind think at it's worst.
For example the fact that he was the youngest director of neurosurgery ever at the time at John Hopkins at the age of just 33 is completely removed. http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/03/403599009/5-things-you-should-know-about-ben-carson
the binders twins didn't get a good outcome, but that bit is stretched way long as if it's his fault. They were told it was a risky procedure the operation paved the way for many successful ones where Carson did the same procedure and the conjoined twins ended up normal and others ones which also failed including one where Carson tried to do a pioneering one on adults where the operating equipment were designed by him and his team.
On top of this Carson performed hundreds of surgeries and also revived/pioneered modern hemispherectomy a procedure that requires removing half a brain and he successfully did it where the children recovered completely to lead normal lives http://hemifoundation.homestead.com/jessiesstory.html
He also contributed to medical research in numerous publications. Authored 100 Neurosurgical Publications http://www.nationalreview.com/author/ben-carson http://www.hopkinschildrens.org/staffDetail.aspx?id=3290
This and many more, he has only a dozen cases of legal cases for somebody who has been doing more than the average amount of surgery " Carson’s career moved along relatively smoothly, even while performing as many as 400 operations per year – a high caseload for neurosurgeons." http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/04/ben-carson-malpractice-claims-doctor-for-president
If anything his stunning record should be displayed as well as the negative things that may have occured.
Maybe this will be removed, but i just wanted to say I would really like a neurosurgeon with around almost 30 years of service as a pediatric neurosurgeon to have more than 1 or 2 lines about his medical career and about 2 pages worth about his crazy political views. Majorlegend ( talk) 22:31, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Please simply delete the current paragraphs 2, 3, and 4 under the heading SURGEON and, in place of the last paragraph, simply state the date of his retirement. I agree with the comments above, that those paragraphs are obviously worded by opponents and are not objective. They are unworthy of Wikipedia, which is supposed to be objective. The simplest way to deal with them is to delete them.
Given the media pile on/serious investigation of Carson's various assertions about his life history and other matters, I think it deserves a separate section, which I created, partly with new content and partly from pasting text from other sections. This is a rough draft and needs obvious improvement. In particular, until this new section undergoes further editing, I intentionally did not delete redundant material in other sections, but, as we edit this article together, I expect that to happen. This is also an especial plea not to revert this long addition to the article. Please, please improve, don't delete. With your help, I will continue to work on it. Lahaun ( talk) 03:19, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
References
Winkelvi reversed my addition (see diff) with a note that said, among other things, that this Wikipedia article is not about Dr. Carson's medical career. I have to disagree, given that, for lack of prior political office, and for the fact his secondary writing and motivational speaking career is predicated on his medical achievements, his record as a surgeon is very much worthy of encyclopedic coverage. I'm up for better NPOV wording if that's what's called for, but I do think the fact that two of Carson's four twin separations subsequent to the Binder operation resulted in both twins dying, and one of those operations resulted in one twin dying and the other left legally blind and struggling to walk, is relevant to his career biography. Particularly so, I think, because he's made his twin separation surgeries a central part of the narrative he's presented to the public as a candidate. I also think yesterday's New York Times article on his surgical career and reputation at Hopkins, from which these facts were drawn, has further utility as a Wikipedia source and its link should not be deleted, even if some of its content might jar with perceptions preferred by the Carson campaign. I'm not trying to create a "fail list", as Winkelvi contends. Perhaps we can also note that Carson took on many cases other surgeons would not touch? Or that he was not the first or only to separate twins joined at the head, but that Hopkins apparently publicized the Binder operation in 1987, in many ways preparing the spotlight for Carson? That's also in this and other articles. Open to discussion... Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:18, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. Carson career is fair game in his bio, and that includes not only successes but also failures. I am amazed that we are having this discussion. Tagged as such. - Cwobeel (talk) 01:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello. So, two days ago the NYT published an article about Carson which was mostly about his medical career. I found that article quite balanced and informative. The way I remember it, it said that Carson was a star surgeon, and explained why, but also that this stardom was probably not fully deserved, and explained why. Meanwhile, when I read the "Surgeon" section in our article, I found it neither balanced, neither informative. What it says is that Carson was a surgeon and that he was not good at separating twins. My point is, we definitely have to talk about the outcome of the twin separation(s), but if that makes up 50% of the section, it is undue weight. Thanks, Biwom ( talk) 16:18, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Excellent article covering an attempt by Carson to solving America's health care system: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/carsoncare-the-doctors-needy-patients-fund-that-went-nowhere-216111 - A section on this would be a worthy addition. - Cwobeel (talk) 18:41, 25 November 2015 (UTC)