Battle of Ceresole is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Congratulations on making this a featured article, Kirrill. It deserves it. (I have to get around to adding footnotes and rounding out some of the articles I've worked on -- so much to do, so little time. Anyway....) The article is a great addition to Wikipedia's sources on Early Modern Warfare. Larry Dunn 17:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I can only offer this general note, but you really went above and beyond in making the diagrams for this Kirill. Marskell 22:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the punctuation should only fall outside the quotes if it isn't a proper ending to a sentence. Wow, that sentence made almost no sense... if a quote is a sentence, and the end of the quote is the end of the sentence, the fullstop (period) should fall within the quotes. It's a minor technical thing all spelled out in the MoS. Thanks. -- 198.185.18.207 13:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
September 22, 1998 Renaissance Quarterly by the Renaissance Society of America has an article about the Vatican Galleria, and Walter Goffart (the author of the article on page 788, mentions the battle of Ceresole and a depiction (of a map by Ignazio Danti?) that is there. Speaking on the importance of the battle (as inquired about on the FAC page), Goffart describes the vignette there, "(Piedmont and Montferrat) Very violent battle (acerrimus conflictus) at Ceresole (1544). [Militarily brilliant success by French forces over imperial ones. Before the year was out, France, facing two invaders in the north, made peace at Crepy with Charles V. The victory in Piedmont was irrelevant.]" Also he writes, "The 'very violent' battle of Ceresole was won by the French, but inconsequentially, since Francis I, scant months later, was forced to make the Peace of Crepy with Charles V."
So really, not that important, historically (besides the loss of life).
Anyway, I'm sure if someone had time, they could find an image (take a picture?) of the Danti map. Cheers. -- 198.185.18.207 16:33, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
There were some misunderstandings about the name of the Spanish commander. He was Alfonso d'Avalos, and was Italian (I've corrected his entry also), despite what the name should let one think (he was born at Ischia). Further, to cite him continuously as "Del Vasto" is an error. "Del Vasto" was simply the title (he was marquis of Pescara and "del" Vasto, but the latter is a single city.. "del" probably refers to "del territorio di Vasto", "the territory of Vasto"). "Alfonso d'Avalos" is its more stricly correct name-surname form. Rodolfo or Ridolfo Baglioni was from Perugia. Aldobrando Madrazzo from Trento, and then Italian although he led Landsknecht troops. I didn't check the article as a whole, but I'm starting to guess it could contain further mistakes about Italian names and things, probably spred by the scarce attention paid to these matters by the 1930s main source used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Attilios ( talk • contribs)
Please believe me that "Del Vasto" is wrong to be cited in this way. It is not his surname, don't matter what your sources write (probably they copy one from each other). As I wrote, his complete title was "Alfonso d'Avalos, Marchese di Pescara and del Vasto. It is largely an English (or French) misunderstating about this form of his name. An example of what using the "Del Vasto" format would sound in Italian speaking of somebody else (i.e. the Ludovico Gonzaga, Marquess of Mantua): "Of Mantua" then invited "of Bohemia" to his palace. "Of Bohemia"'s wife brought a present, which of Mantua liked much. Etc etc
I will wait for your consensus before reverting it again. Bye. (PS: if you need a source, I have Rendina, Claudio (1994). I capitani di ventura. Rome: Newton Compton. -- Attilios 23:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be François de Bourbon? john k 07:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
IMO the notes section would benefit from columns. In even a narrow browser window, the notes have an unreadably long line length, given the smaller text size. I'll leave this to someone who has worked on the article to actually change though. Don't want to step on any toes. Oh also, some 'ibid's are in order in the notes. -- jacobolus (t) 08:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I think, we should sharply reconsider Oman's reliability, if he was able to to wrong "Eriprando Madruzzo" for a totally invented version "Aldobrand Madrazzo"... see [1] for the correct version of name. i found it just by chance, as I was writing Cristoforo Madruzzo lately (a cardinal!!) and got curious to read "Madrazzo" here... But, how many other giant faults we have copied here? -- Attilios 23:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Quite simply, the piece relies too much on Oman. Whether Oman is correct or not, his work is prett much the sole source for the core of this piece. Spoonkymonkey ( talk) 14:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Ehm ... there is an error, Ramón de Cardona died in 1522. -- Fabio.gastone ( talk) 22:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
As noted as long ago as 2008, this article relies very heavily on Oman's account. While he is supplemented by Hall, Hall's primary focus is the technology involved. A wider range of more modern sources would strengthen the article. Mention might be made that a museum dedicated to the battle was opened in 2019 https://www.comune.ceresoledalba.cn.it/en-us/vivere-il-comune/cosa-vedere/mubatt-museum-of-the-battle-of-ceresole-d-alba-of-1544-45402-1-3e01dfc2c13f602f8e62605210cd3926 Monstrelet ( talk) 15:04, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
Battle of Ceresole is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 6, 2007. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Congratulations on making this a featured article, Kirrill. It deserves it. (I have to get around to adding footnotes and rounding out some of the articles I've worked on -- so much to do, so little time. Anyway....) The article is a great addition to Wikipedia's sources on Early Modern Warfare. Larry Dunn 17:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I can only offer this general note, but you really went above and beyond in making the diagrams for this Kirill. Marskell 22:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the punctuation should only fall outside the quotes if it isn't a proper ending to a sentence. Wow, that sentence made almost no sense... if a quote is a sentence, and the end of the quote is the end of the sentence, the fullstop (period) should fall within the quotes. It's a minor technical thing all spelled out in the MoS. Thanks. -- 198.185.18.207 13:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
September 22, 1998 Renaissance Quarterly by the Renaissance Society of America has an article about the Vatican Galleria, and Walter Goffart (the author of the article on page 788, mentions the battle of Ceresole and a depiction (of a map by Ignazio Danti?) that is there. Speaking on the importance of the battle (as inquired about on the FAC page), Goffart describes the vignette there, "(Piedmont and Montferrat) Very violent battle (acerrimus conflictus) at Ceresole (1544). [Militarily brilliant success by French forces over imperial ones. Before the year was out, France, facing two invaders in the north, made peace at Crepy with Charles V. The victory in Piedmont was irrelevant.]" Also he writes, "The 'very violent' battle of Ceresole was won by the French, but inconsequentially, since Francis I, scant months later, was forced to make the Peace of Crepy with Charles V."
So really, not that important, historically (besides the loss of life).
Anyway, I'm sure if someone had time, they could find an image (take a picture?) of the Danti map. Cheers. -- 198.185.18.207 16:33, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
There were some misunderstandings about the name of the Spanish commander. He was Alfonso d'Avalos, and was Italian (I've corrected his entry also), despite what the name should let one think (he was born at Ischia). Further, to cite him continuously as "Del Vasto" is an error. "Del Vasto" was simply the title (he was marquis of Pescara and "del" Vasto, but the latter is a single city.. "del" probably refers to "del territorio di Vasto", "the territory of Vasto"). "Alfonso d'Avalos" is its more stricly correct name-surname form. Rodolfo or Ridolfo Baglioni was from Perugia. Aldobrando Madrazzo from Trento, and then Italian although he led Landsknecht troops. I didn't check the article as a whole, but I'm starting to guess it could contain further mistakes about Italian names and things, probably spred by the scarce attention paid to these matters by the 1930s main source used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Attilios ( talk • contribs)
Please believe me that "Del Vasto" is wrong to be cited in this way. It is not his surname, don't matter what your sources write (probably they copy one from each other). As I wrote, his complete title was "Alfonso d'Avalos, Marchese di Pescara and del Vasto. It is largely an English (or French) misunderstating about this form of his name. An example of what using the "Del Vasto" format would sound in Italian speaking of somebody else (i.e. the Ludovico Gonzaga, Marquess of Mantua): "Of Mantua" then invited "of Bohemia" to his palace. "Of Bohemia"'s wife brought a present, which of Mantua liked much. Etc etc
I will wait for your consensus before reverting it again. Bye. (PS: if you need a source, I have Rendina, Claudio (1994). I capitani di ventura. Rome: Newton Compton. -- Attilios 23:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be François de Bourbon? john k 07:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
IMO the notes section would benefit from columns. In even a narrow browser window, the notes have an unreadably long line length, given the smaller text size. I'll leave this to someone who has worked on the article to actually change though. Don't want to step on any toes. Oh also, some 'ibid's are in order in the notes. -- jacobolus (t) 08:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I think, we should sharply reconsider Oman's reliability, if he was able to to wrong "Eriprando Madruzzo" for a totally invented version "Aldobrand Madrazzo"... see [1] for the correct version of name. i found it just by chance, as I was writing Cristoforo Madruzzo lately (a cardinal!!) and got curious to read "Madrazzo" here... But, how many other giant faults we have copied here? -- Attilios 23:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Quite simply, the piece relies too much on Oman. Whether Oman is correct or not, his work is prett much the sole source for the core of this piece. Spoonkymonkey ( talk) 14:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Ehm ... there is an error, Ramón de Cardona died in 1522. -- Fabio.gastone ( talk) 22:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
As noted as long ago as 2008, this article relies very heavily on Oman's account. While he is supplemented by Hall, Hall's primary focus is the technology involved. A wider range of more modern sources would strengthen the article. Mention might be made that a museum dedicated to the battle was opened in 2019 https://www.comune.ceresoledalba.cn.it/en-us/vivere-il-comune/cosa-vedere/mubatt-museum-of-the-battle-of-ceresole-d-alba-of-1544-45402-1-3e01dfc2c13f602f8e62605210cd3926 Monstrelet ( talk) 15:04, 31 March 2022 (UTC)