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In other talk threads, questions have been raised about the relevance of some of the statements and sources in the section on Bangladesh. I've had a brief look at this, and from what I can tell, the first three sentences: "A sizeable number of Bangladeshi Muslims follow Ahle Sunnat (Barelvi) movement. Barelvi movement has strong bases in Chittagong and Sylhet region of Bangladesh. Ahle Sunnat wal jamaat situated in Dhaka is a central organization of Barelvi ulemas of Bangladesh.
- do seem to be specific to the subject and have viable sources. After that point, the material appears to less and less resemble information about the Barelvi movement specifically and more about Islam in general in Bangladesh, which is not the subject here. I haven't checked all of this material, and with some references it is tricky to impossible, as there are no page numbers, but either way, if the rest of the material is to remain, it needs to be made clear how it directly relates to the Barelvi movement. It is certainly not clear to me that the
World Sunni Movement is connected.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 12:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
বক্তাগণ বলেন, ইসলামের ছদ্ধবেশী বাতিল ফেরকা ওহাবীবাদ-শিয়াবাদ-সালাফিবাদ যেমন ঈমানের বিপরীত ও দ্বীন বিকৃতিকারী তেমন নাস্তিক্য উদ্ভূত বস্তুবাদী মতবাদও ঈমান বিধ্বংসী এবং দ্বীন-মিল্লাত-মানবতার বিরুদ্ধে ধ্বংসাত্বক বিষয়। বাতিল ফেরকা ও বস্তুবাদী মতবাদের অনুসারী হয়েও এবং দ্বীনের মৌলিক দিক অস্বীকার করেও সুন্নী দাবির মাধ্যমে প্রকৃত ইসলাম তথা আহলে সুন্নাতের পরিচয় ও রূপরেখা বিপন্ন এবং বিলুপ্তির মুখে ঠেলে দেয়া হচ্ছে} which translates as
The speakers said that Wahhabism-Shiaism-Salafism, which is a false interpretation of Islam, is contrary to faith and distorts religion, and materialistic doctrines originating from atheism are also destructive of faith and destructive to religion, nation, and humanity. The identity and contours of true Islam, i.e. Ahl al-Sunnah, are being endangered and pushed to the face of extinction through Sunni claims despite being followers of null and materialistic doctrines and denying the fundamental aspects of religionper google translate. In short the opposition of WSM speakers to other non Barelvi movements and mention of term Ahle Sunnat led me to identify it as a Barelvi org similarly to Jamia Ahmadiyya Sunnia Kamil Madrasa where its history mentions Ahle Sunnat wal jamaat and Maslak e AAla Hazrat (as clarify above in the source by Akhtar Raza Khan. [2] [3] Maliner ( talk) 13:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Salafis themselves do not like being called Wahhabis, because to them it smacks of idolatry to name their movement after a recent leader. Instead they prefer to call themselves Ahl al-Sunnah "People of the Sunna".[1] So again, this term is common and not exclusive to Barelvis. Iskandar323 ( talk) 14:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
References
The Barelvi movement ( Urdu: بَریلوِی, Barēlwī, Urdu pronunciation: [bəreːlʋi]), also known as Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaah (People of the Prophet's Way and the Community) which is generally considered by muslims to be the full form of the abbreviation Sunni, [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] is a Sunni movement that aims to defend traditional Sunni Islam with all its four schools of jurisprudence, the two schools of theology and the sufi tariqa orders from any attempt to reform them. As the movement originated in South Asia most members of the movement are from Hanafi and Shafi'i [6] schools of jurisprudence, Maturidism and Ash'arism schools of theology and the various tariqa orders of sufism that have a presence in South Asia such as Qadiriyya, Chisti order, Suhrawardiyya and Naqshbandi as well as many others. The movement is supported by the majority of muslims in Pakistan and India with over hundreds of millions of followers in South Asia and also in parts of Europe, America and Africa. [7] [8] [9] They consider themselves to be the continuation of Sunni Islamic orthodoxy before the rise of Salafism and Deobandi Movement. [10]
Even though Imam Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi r of Qadiriyya Razavi branch of the Qadiriyya Barakati founded the movement, the movement itself is not to be confused with this particular branch of sufism as the movement consisted of supporters from most sufis in South Asia. The movement drew inspiration from the Sunni sufi doctrines of Shah Abdur Rahim (1644-1719) founder of Madrasah-i Rahimiyah and father of Shah Waliullah Dehlawi, Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddith Dehlavi (1746 –1824) and Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi (1796–1861) founder of the Khairabad School. [11] The movement emphasizes the importance of sufism and practices such as veneration of saints that are associated with traditional Sunni Islam in addition to also following sharia rules while reform movements such as Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement preach against this emphasis and support limiting such practices in order to be careful about not adding too much to Islam other than sharia rules which they believe what Islam was like in the earliest times. [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] Mmuslimdunya ( talk) 08:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC) Mmuslimdunya ( talk) 08:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
The Barelvi movement ( Urdu: بَریلوِی, Barēlwī, Urdu pronunciation: [bəreːlʋi]), also known as Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaah (People of the Prophet's Way and the Community) which is generally considered by muslims to be the full form of the abbreviation Sunni, [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] is a Sunni movement that aims to defend traditional Sunni Islam with all its four schools of jurisprudence, the two schools of theology and the sufi tariqa orders from any attempt to reform them. As the movement originated in South Asia most members of the movement are from Hanafi and Shafi'i [22] schools of jurisprudence, Maturidism and Ash'arism schools of theology and the various tariqa orders of sufism that have a presence in South Asia such as Qadiriyya, Chisti order, Suhrawardiyya and Naqshbandi as well as many others. The movement is supported by the majority of muslims in Pakistan and India with over hundreds of millions of followers in South Asia and also in parts of Europe, America and Africa. [7] [8] [9] They consider themselves to be the continuation of Sunni Islamic orthodoxy before the rise of Salafism and Deobandi Movement. [23]
Even though Imam Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi r of Qadiriyya Razavi branch of the Qadiriyya Barakati founded the movement, the movement itself is not to be confused with this particular branch of sufism as the movement consisted of supporters from most sufis in South Asia. The movement drew inspiration from the Sunni sufi doctrines of Shah Abdur Rahim (1644-1719) founder of Madrasah-i Rahimiyah and father of Shah Waliullah Dehlawi, Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddith Dehlavi (1746 –1824) and Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi (1796–1861) founder of the Khairabad School. [24] The movement emphasizes the importance of sufism and practices such as veneration of saints that are associated with traditional Sunni Islam in addition to also following sharia rules while reform movements such as Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement preach against this emphasis and support limiting such practices in order to be careful about not adding too much to Islam other than sharia rules which they believe what Islam was like in the earliest times. [25] [13] [26] [27] [16]
Even though the movement initially arose as a reaction to movements such as Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement, they claim to represent traditional sufi oriented Sunni Islam who form the majority of muslims in South Asia and whose history includes mass conversion of hindus into Islam by sufism and conquests by the Delhi Sultanate, Mughal Empire and its sultans such as Aurangzeb, riots and persecution resulting from support for partition of India ( Deobandi movement was against the partion so in a way avoided violence), Kashmir conflict, 2002 Gujarat riots and everyday persecution of muslims in today's India. According to India the movement has a history of conflict with China also because of Pakistan and Rohingya people's post partition conflicts with Bangladesh ( Bangladesh Liberation War) and Myanmar ( Rohingya genocide) and India says it is because of this reason also that most Bangladeshis chose to convert to the Deobandi movement. This claim by India about the movement having conflict with China also has been proven to be true and is now widely accepted but what has become contested and controversial is India's claim that the movement has the most serious problems with Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement and also with those christians and jews who believe in religion because of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and because Sunni muslims in South Asia and globally are critical of it as Palestinians are adherents of traditional Sunni Islam who support sufism. It is said that the movement is expressive about its differences with Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement and has always been critical of jewish and sometimes United States and christian support for the long standing and very serious Israeli–Palestinian conflict but these are in no way comparable in extent with the conflicts that Sunni Islam had with India, Europe and other regions including China where polytheism and irreligion is practiced. Mmuslimdunya ( talk) 12:30, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
References
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cite encyclopedia}}
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help page).{{
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Similarities Barelvis and Sufism share some similarities, as Barelvis draw heavily from Sufi practices and beliefs. Both emphasize the importance of the love for the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and veneration of saints. They also value spiritual practices like zikr (remembrance of God), and Mawlid celebrations (commemorations of the Prophet's birthday). However, Barelvis are a specific Sunni sub-sect, whereas Sufism is a broader mystical and spiritual tradition within Islam that is not limited to any particular sect.
Dissimilarities Farrukhwahla ( talk) 19:03, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Barelvi movement article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 8 December 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Barelvi to Barelvi movement. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Guidelines for developing and editing Islam-related Wikipedia articles are at: Wikipedia:MOSISLAM
In other talk threads, questions have been raised about the relevance of some of the statements and sources in the section on Bangladesh. I've had a brief look at this, and from what I can tell, the first three sentences: "A sizeable number of Bangladeshi Muslims follow Ahle Sunnat (Barelvi) movement. Barelvi movement has strong bases in Chittagong and Sylhet region of Bangladesh. Ahle Sunnat wal jamaat situated in Dhaka is a central organization of Barelvi ulemas of Bangladesh.
- do seem to be specific to the subject and have viable sources. After that point, the material appears to less and less resemble information about the Barelvi movement specifically and more about Islam in general in Bangladesh, which is not the subject here. I haven't checked all of this material, and with some references it is tricky to impossible, as there are no page numbers, but either way, if the rest of the material is to remain, it needs to be made clear how it directly relates to the Barelvi movement. It is certainly not clear to me that the
World Sunni Movement is connected.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 12:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
বক্তাগণ বলেন, ইসলামের ছদ্ধবেশী বাতিল ফেরকা ওহাবীবাদ-শিয়াবাদ-সালাফিবাদ যেমন ঈমানের বিপরীত ও দ্বীন বিকৃতিকারী তেমন নাস্তিক্য উদ্ভূত বস্তুবাদী মতবাদও ঈমান বিধ্বংসী এবং দ্বীন-মিল্লাত-মানবতার বিরুদ্ধে ধ্বংসাত্বক বিষয়। বাতিল ফেরকা ও বস্তুবাদী মতবাদের অনুসারী হয়েও এবং দ্বীনের মৌলিক দিক অস্বীকার করেও সুন্নী দাবির মাধ্যমে প্রকৃত ইসলাম তথা আহলে সুন্নাতের পরিচয় ও রূপরেখা বিপন্ন এবং বিলুপ্তির মুখে ঠেলে দেয়া হচ্ছে} which translates as
The speakers said that Wahhabism-Shiaism-Salafism, which is a false interpretation of Islam, is contrary to faith and distorts religion, and materialistic doctrines originating from atheism are also destructive of faith and destructive to religion, nation, and humanity. The identity and contours of true Islam, i.e. Ahl al-Sunnah, are being endangered and pushed to the face of extinction through Sunni claims despite being followers of null and materialistic doctrines and denying the fundamental aspects of religionper google translate. In short the opposition of WSM speakers to other non Barelvi movements and mention of term Ahle Sunnat led me to identify it as a Barelvi org similarly to Jamia Ahmadiyya Sunnia Kamil Madrasa where its history mentions Ahle Sunnat wal jamaat and Maslak e AAla Hazrat (as clarify above in the source by Akhtar Raza Khan. [2] [3] Maliner ( talk) 13:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Salafis themselves do not like being called Wahhabis, because to them it smacks of idolatry to name their movement after a recent leader. Instead they prefer to call themselves Ahl al-Sunnah "People of the Sunna".[1] So again, this term is common and not exclusive to Barelvis. Iskandar323 ( talk) 14:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
References
The Barelvi movement ( Urdu: بَریلوِی, Barēlwī, Urdu pronunciation: [bəreːlʋi]), also known as Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaah (People of the Prophet's Way and the Community) which is generally considered by muslims to be the full form of the abbreviation Sunni, [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] is a Sunni movement that aims to defend traditional Sunni Islam with all its four schools of jurisprudence, the two schools of theology and the sufi tariqa orders from any attempt to reform them. As the movement originated in South Asia most members of the movement are from Hanafi and Shafi'i [6] schools of jurisprudence, Maturidism and Ash'arism schools of theology and the various tariqa orders of sufism that have a presence in South Asia such as Qadiriyya, Chisti order, Suhrawardiyya and Naqshbandi as well as many others. The movement is supported by the majority of muslims in Pakistan and India with over hundreds of millions of followers in South Asia and also in parts of Europe, America and Africa. [7] [8] [9] They consider themselves to be the continuation of Sunni Islamic orthodoxy before the rise of Salafism and Deobandi Movement. [10]
Even though Imam Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi r of Qadiriyya Razavi branch of the Qadiriyya Barakati founded the movement, the movement itself is not to be confused with this particular branch of sufism as the movement consisted of supporters from most sufis in South Asia. The movement drew inspiration from the Sunni sufi doctrines of Shah Abdur Rahim (1644-1719) founder of Madrasah-i Rahimiyah and father of Shah Waliullah Dehlawi, Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddith Dehlavi (1746 –1824) and Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi (1796–1861) founder of the Khairabad School. [11] The movement emphasizes the importance of sufism and practices such as veneration of saints that are associated with traditional Sunni Islam in addition to also following sharia rules while reform movements such as Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement preach against this emphasis and support limiting such practices in order to be careful about not adding too much to Islam other than sharia rules which they believe what Islam was like in the earliest times. [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] Mmuslimdunya ( talk) 08:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC) Mmuslimdunya ( talk) 08:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
The Barelvi movement ( Urdu: بَریلوِی, Barēlwī, Urdu pronunciation: [bəreːlʋi]), also known as Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaah (People of the Prophet's Way and the Community) which is generally considered by muslims to be the full form of the abbreviation Sunni, [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] is a Sunni movement that aims to defend traditional Sunni Islam with all its four schools of jurisprudence, the two schools of theology and the sufi tariqa orders from any attempt to reform them. As the movement originated in South Asia most members of the movement are from Hanafi and Shafi'i [22] schools of jurisprudence, Maturidism and Ash'arism schools of theology and the various tariqa orders of sufism that have a presence in South Asia such as Qadiriyya, Chisti order, Suhrawardiyya and Naqshbandi as well as many others. The movement is supported by the majority of muslims in Pakistan and India with over hundreds of millions of followers in South Asia and also in parts of Europe, America and Africa. [7] [8] [9] They consider themselves to be the continuation of Sunni Islamic orthodoxy before the rise of Salafism and Deobandi Movement. [23]
Even though Imam Ahmed Raza Khan Barelvi r of Qadiriyya Razavi branch of the Qadiriyya Barakati founded the movement, the movement itself is not to be confused with this particular branch of sufism as the movement consisted of supporters from most sufis in South Asia. The movement drew inspiration from the Sunni sufi doctrines of Shah Abdur Rahim (1644-1719) founder of Madrasah-i Rahimiyah and father of Shah Waliullah Dehlawi, Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddith Dehlavi (1746 –1824) and Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi (1796–1861) founder of the Khairabad School. [24] The movement emphasizes the importance of sufism and practices such as veneration of saints that are associated with traditional Sunni Islam in addition to also following sharia rules while reform movements such as Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement preach against this emphasis and support limiting such practices in order to be careful about not adding too much to Islam other than sharia rules which they believe what Islam was like in the earliest times. [25] [13] [26] [27] [16]
Even though the movement initially arose as a reaction to movements such as Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement, they claim to represent traditional sufi oriented Sunni Islam who form the majority of muslims in South Asia and whose history includes mass conversion of hindus into Islam by sufism and conquests by the Delhi Sultanate, Mughal Empire and its sultans such as Aurangzeb, riots and persecution resulting from support for partition of India ( Deobandi movement was against the partion so in a way avoided violence), Kashmir conflict, 2002 Gujarat riots and everyday persecution of muslims in today's India. According to India the movement has a history of conflict with China also because of Pakistan and Rohingya people's post partition conflicts with Bangladesh ( Bangladesh Liberation War) and Myanmar ( Rohingya genocide) and India says it is because of this reason also that most Bangladeshis chose to convert to the Deobandi movement. This claim by India about the movement having conflict with China also has been proven to be true and is now widely accepted but what has become contested and controversial is India's claim that the movement has the most serious problems with Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement and also with those christians and jews who believe in religion because of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict and because Sunni muslims in South Asia and globally are critical of it as Palestinians are adherents of traditional Sunni Islam who support sufism. It is said that the movement is expressive about its differences with Wahhabism and the Deobandi movement and has always been critical of jewish and sometimes United States and christian support for the long standing and very serious Israeli–Palestinian conflict but these are in no way comparable in extent with the conflicts that Sunni Islam had with India, Europe and other regions including China where polytheism and irreligion is practiced. Mmuslimdunya ( talk) 12:30, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |work=
ignored (
help)
BediPage3
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).netton
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).{{
cite encyclopedia}}
: |work=
ignored (
help)
Similarities Barelvis and Sufism share some similarities, as Barelvis draw heavily from Sufi practices and beliefs. Both emphasize the importance of the love for the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and veneration of saints. They also value spiritual practices like zikr (remembrance of God), and Mawlid celebrations (commemorations of the Prophet's birthday). However, Barelvis are a specific Sunni sub-sect, whereas Sufism is a broader mystical and spiritual tradition within Islam that is not limited to any particular sect.
Dissimilarities Farrukhwahla ( talk) 19:03, 12 March 2024 (UTC)