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In the article he published in the East Africa Journal in 1965, which is mentioned in this Wikipedia article, Obama Sr. signed his named Barak H. Obama. (not Barack). See http://kwani.org/main/problems-facing-our-socialism-barak-h-obama/ and many other web links to he article. This may mean that his first name in Kenya was Barak, not Barack, and that he changed its spelling to Barack when he came to the U.S. or before he married Ann Dunham. I have tried to insert text to this effect in the article, but it was removed. I have no idea why. Can anyone please enlighten me? Thanks.
-- Groucho ( talk) 11:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Please note that this page had been in the past been redirected per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barack Hussein Obama Sr. A new good-faith draft was created at Barack Obama Sr. and has now been moved here as history merge per a request at WP:RM, but also so that its merits as standalone article can be discussed. -- Tikiwont ( talk) 16:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I am not convinced that this should be a separate article, but if it is we need to be clear that his notability is strictly as Barack Obama's father. The lede has been reworked to reflect that - his position as an economist for the Kenyan government would not yield an article, so it is not the lead sentence. Also I included "absent" because he did not raise his son, and was not present for his growing up - they saw each other only once after he left the family. Tvoz | talk 05:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
You cannot presume he is the biological father. Hence absent father is better. You don't have to comment on the scandal of it all if you don't want to. But you are obliged not to lie and mislead people, or to claim knowledge that you do not have. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.183.191 ( talk) 21:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Let's separate the two words. Tvoz, I can't tell whether you agree with me that "biological" should go... what do you think? As for "absent," I am okay with the new sentence you inserted... I wouldn't have put it in the lede myself, but it is factual and neutral and gets the point across. Can we therefore remove the word "absent?" I think it is too subjective and I agree with Rewinn that it has a judgmental ring to it. -- Allen ( talk) 03:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
[out] Allen - I can go either way. If you and others feel strongly about it, it's ok with me to remove either or both "absent" and "biological", but only if the sentence (or a similar one) remains in the lede about his not being there to raise Barack. I think this is important to be included in the lede as his paternity is the only reason the article exists at all, but his notability is questionable to me seeing as how little he actually had to do with Barack. Hope this clarifies - it's late, so I can't tell if it's coherent enough. Tvoz | talk 07:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
While this fellow is not the most notable person in the world, he *is* the main subject of a bestselling book by a leading political figure. Whether reasonable or not, the interest in him seems far to exceed that in the parents of other celebrities, e.g. Bill Clinton's father. Thus I would suggest he is sufficiently notable for his own article. rewinn ( talk) 05:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
There are many books written by notable people about people who aren't very notable. And although Barack is notable, nobody talks about the book that mentions his father. His best known work is his other book "The Audacity of Hope". Simply being talked about in a book or being mentioned by the media is something many people have gone through, many of which aren't considered notable enough to be given an article. He should be mentioned in the artcles Barack Obama and other minor articles relaed to him, but not given his own. QuirkyAndSuch ( talk) 02:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
I know many people who talk and about the father of the President of the United States. He is notable to me and many others. There were over 40 thousand page views for him last month, Feb 2015. (See http://stats.grok.se/en/201502/Barack_Obama,_Sr. ) Loveonearth ( talk) 23:02, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
This article claims that Nyangoma-Kogelo is in Siaya District, while Barack Obama claims that is in Bondo District. Which one is it? Bash Kash ( talk) 04:43, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I propose this article be deleted. He is not notable. ObamaGirlMachine ( talk) 01:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Support deleting. Not notable and there is no reason to think the person this article is about will be notable in the future WP:NOTCRYSTAL. Being mentioned a few times by the media doesn't make you notable. I'm using this same argument for all biography articles being nominated for deletion that are related to Barack Obama, it's clear that Michelle Obama is the only notable person given an article, the others all seem to be fluff. QuirkyAndSuch ( talk) 01:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Oppose. My reasoning is this: Some in the public forum categorize him, Barack Hussein Obama II, (connoted or substituted as "accuse him") as Muslim. Barack Hussein Obama II is at the forefront of the public media (as of this writing October 29, 2008 @ 05:03h EST) through mostly western accessed medium. Although this categorization should be of no affect, there still exist many in the public who perpetuate the sentiment that being a Muslim harbours some potential for malfeasance. Regardless of this fact, as long as this sentiment is carried, it is in the public interest that his lineage and association be open to the public, whether for clarification or debate.
In addition Barack Hussein Obama II has made evident or notes in many public appearances, his sentiment and relationship (or lack thereof) with his father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. This inclusion into the public forum requires a reference to the validity of Barack Hussein Obama II's statements.
This topic and it's demand has been validated by Barack Hussein Obama II's inclusion of his father into the category of notable figures. It should be noted that the significance is not strong, however is sufficient in in maintaining this topic unless it is merged with that of Barack Hussein Obama II as a distinct sub-category, however such a result would be sub-optimal and contrary to who a notable figure is or how they shape first order relatives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.220.2 ( talk) 09:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Since the religion field in the infobox was filled out yesterday with "Islam", [1] "Atheism" has been added, [2] taken off, [3] re-added, [4] and now "Islam" has been taken off. [5] Does anyone know what he was at the time of his death? I know he was raised in Islam, but was apparently an Atheist by the time Barack was born, but not sure if he shifted back to Islam when he returned to Kenya. -- Bobblehead (rants) 22:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of Barack Obama, Sr being a muslim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.223.51.70 ( talk) 21:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Not only is The fact that him being Muslim not mentioned, But the evidence to prove that he was Agnostic was quoted by his Daughter Auma. In which there is no mention of her through out the whole page. Worth taking a look at. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.129.214 ( talk) 18:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Just found a Daniel Pipes essay at Front Page Magazine that (if correct) cuts through this non-moslem nonsense. Both his fathers were in fact moslem. Which nevertheless is no crime. In Islam it is a crime to leave your faith for another faith, but for a moslem to become atheist is something else again. I do not imply, that Obama should see himself as a moslem-- Radh ( talk) 18:30, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Front page magazine is definitly not neutral. Is there any always reliable source in journalism? Even the NYT made mistakes. Obama Jr. sees himself as christian. When he is elected, the moslem countries will perhaps have other ideas and this might even work in his favour? - Radh ( talk) 20:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Should this be moved to " Barack Obama I" since his son is " Barack Obama II" and not "Barack Obama, Jr."?-- 67.176.175.133 ( talk) 01:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I do not think this article should be merged. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama Senior have their own wikipedia pages, even though they are solely famous by relationship to Senator Obama. I think his grandmother deserves her own page too, especially since she's being quoted more and more often in the media.
I would ask that the notability and merge tags be removed. GreekParadise ( talk) 16:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that Sarah Obama plays a special role in Obama's life that the other Kenyan relatives do not play. There's a reason the media always goes to her for first comment. How about this compromise? We rename the "Sarah Obama" page to be "Sarah Obama and Barack Obama's relatives in Kenya." I think people are more likely to search for "Sarah Obama" than "Kenyan relatives of Barack Obama." GreekParadise ( talk) 21:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Merge proposal
What exactly is the July 2008 merge proposal? What are the reasons?
Tvoz/
talk
01:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
As the birth certificate of Barack Obama makes it evident that he is Barack Hussein Obama II, and not Barack Obama, Junior does this article fall under Barack Obama I or the significantly more common and used Barack Obama, Senior? –– Lid( Talk) 13:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Noroton (over on Talk:Barack Obama) is right about article name. "Sr." should definitely be in this article name. What we want as an article name is whatever people are most likely to search for (and what is most widely used in sources). However, the version of name that appears in the first sentence of an article (usually the first words) is supposed to be "full official name"; I think that argues against including the "Sr." in the lead, it's a popular designation but certainly not one he was born with, and probably not one he ever used in legal documents or the like. LotLE× talk 16:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps it's just me, but the current source #5 < http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770> referenced in talking about Obama Sr.'s conversion to Islam does not read like a reliable and neutral source - it seems much like a tabloid smear, and the Daily Mail is currently published as a tabloid. I would recommend this article be checked for neutrality. 76.247.14.237 ( talk) 01:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 15:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The caption under the photograph in this article reads "Obama, Sr. with son, Barack c.1977". On the other hand, the article itself says they never met after 1972. Obviously something is wrong, but I don't know what. If anybody knows, please correct this.-- Gorpik ( talk) 17:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
given the article is about obama, sr., it is clear who is being referenced. -- emerson7 02:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
←I am taking the above comments by myself, Loonymonkey, Wikidemon and Guyzero to be consensus that we need to clearly differentiate Obama Sr from the Senator, and as such I am reinstating my edits which emerson7 had again reverted. Clarity is indeed the goal, and the clearest way I can see to handle this is by referring the the father as "Sr.". If there are other ideas for how to handle this, please post them here on talk, rather than ignoring the consensus that has formed. Tvoz/ talk 04:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Tvoz, the chronology is now messed up, I'm afraid.
If Ann Dunham took her one-month-old son to visit Mercer Island, then that would have been in 1961, right? [6] Her husband did not graduate from University of Hawaii until June of 1962, right? [7] So how could she have been travelling to see him at Harvard when she made that visit to Mercer Island?
Also, Ann Dunham was enrolled at University of Washington in spring 1962, [8] which was before her husband had graduated from University of Hawaii. How could she have enrolled at UW after visiting her husband at Harvard, as the article now says? Ferrylodge ( talk) 03:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Was there one or two? Did he first lose his legs and later his life, or was it one and the same automobile accident? CapnZapp ( talk) 23:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of this? Is it in fact fabricated ? 14:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.112.193 ( talk)
?????????????????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.214.34.209 ( talk) 11:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Need etymology of the name "Obama." Apparently, like "Onyango" (in the morning), "Otieno" (in the evening), or "Owino" (tangled in the umbilical cord), "Obama" (literally "crooked") is a name dictated by the circumstances of one's birth, in this case given to people born with a physical disability or with some deformity of the legs. Badagnani ( talk) 03:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I know. Old story. But, according to Obama Jr., ( here) his dad was an atheist. Let's not impose our beliefs about their beliefs on people. I deleted the religion entry from the infobox. -- Regents Park ( bail out your boat) 18:43, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Tabloids are not appropriate for sources. If contentious information cannot be backed by reliable sources, it should not be added. Users who add such sources should be warned and, if the edits are repeated, blocked. Thus, request for protection has been declined. Warn and request blocking as appropriate. لenna vecia 02:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Daily Mail is a reputable source and not a tabloid .Particurly as it is not the single source.Please check the . Newsweek which is a reliable sources also states he was a polygamist Please do not revert in a content dispute. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 11:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
At the age of 23, Obama Sr. enrolled at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, leaving behind a pregnant Kezia and their infant son. He had already turned away from Islam and become an atheist by the time he moved to the United States.[8] Barack Obama Sr.'s daughter Auma has commented that her father "was never a Muslim although he was born into a Muslim family with a Muslim name."[12]
I took the issue to Reliable sources and please check the discussion Daily Mail discussion in Reliable sources/Noticeboard and this achived older discussion Daily Mirror n Reliable sources/Noticeboard I do feel that the concensus from the discussion above is use it with other sources and not as a single source and I feel user Yoda swe edit is well sourced. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 19:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree with you Yoda swe if the The Daily Telegraph , Daily Mail or Daily Mirror are not reliable sources atleast 40% of the references in all articles should be removed as the sources are well below them which are over 100 year old British newspapers particularly when we are not using as the single source.Sorry to say I disagree with them not being RS sources . Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 14:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Some ignorant or forgetful people might accidentally search " Obama Barack, Sr." or " Obama Barack Sr." and find no article. Shouldn't it be redirected to " Barack Obama, Sr."? Zheliel ( talk) 10:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I removed a tag on the "early life" section that said it is contradictory - please give an explanation here of what is seen as contradictory, so editors can address it. Thank you. Tvoz/ talk 21:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
“ | Obama Sr. was born in Kanyadhiang village, Rachuonyo District on the shores of Lake Victoria just outside Kendu Bay, Kenya, at the time a colony of the British Empire, and raised in the village of Nyang’oma Kogelo, Siaya District. He was the son of Hussein Onyango Obama (c. 1895-1979) and his second wife, Akumu Habiba. His family are members of the Luo ethnic group. Obama Sr. was raised as a Muslim, but later became an atheist. Before working as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi, Onyango had travelled widely, enlisting with the name Onyango Obama in the British colonial forces and visiting Europe, India, and Zanzibar, where he converted from Christianity to Islam. Onyango had at least three wives; Barack Obama Sr. was the son of Akumu, the second wife. However, he was raised by Onyango's third wife, Sarah, after Akumu left her family and separated from her husband in 1945. Obama Sr. was married in 1954 at the age of eighteen, in a tribal ceremony to Kezia, with whom he had four children. | ” |
The bibliography section for this article looks non-standard. I think it needs the attention of an expert. Jarhed ( talk) 21:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
There's a dispute over the meaning of his name going on and I can't find the answer. I went to a Muslim baby naming site and found these four translations:
Can anyone find the Arabic spelling (or original if not in Arabic script) of Obama Sr. given name? I searched the Arabic Wiki and none of the Arabic character phrases I list above are found in the article. Alatari ( talk) 03:59, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
If people are wanting to come here and read about the English translation of his first name then it's relevant. The script of Swahili was originally in Arabic... Much of Swahili is borrowed from Arabic because of the trade and proximity to Arabia. So was this name borrowed from Muslim tradition or was it just a popular name at the time? He was a professed Muslim at least for a time. Alatari ( talk) 15:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Cite your source that his name has no meaning or his parents meant none. Alatari ( talk) 15:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Like you said it is probably a borrowed word. The point is to quell the rumors by determining the origin of the name by finding an interview record by Jr. or Sr. or Jr.s Mother or a birth certificate, something to show the intent of the parents and what they meant by the name. Saying this is impossible is just avoiding the point. Since there is a rumor and the President has a public image to maintain the information maybe out there. Now have I been clear enough? I'm hoping someone who has researched this page heavily might have the answer in their bookmarks of sources or be able to find it more easily than on my attempts. Alatari ( talk) 18:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
It's not OR to request a source for Obama Sr.s birth certificate or a family historians writings or a genealogy chart. Besides his father: Family of Barack Obama#Hussein Onyango Obama "According to his third wife, Sarah, he originally converted to Catholicism, but took the name Hussein when he later converted to Islam; she said he passed the name, not the religion, on to his children.[49]" and his mother: Family of Barack Obama#Habiba Akumu Obama "Luos are given name related the circumstances of their birth and Akumu means mysterious birth, a conception after a birth, but before resumption of menses.[50] She took the name Habiba upon her conversion to Islam." Both parents were Islam converts and that article is focused on the meanings of the family members names. I'm not asking for anything that Family of Barack Obama editors haven't researched and added to that article.
" Luos are given name related the circumstances of their birth" so is Barack a Luos word given at his birth or a Muslim name passed on by his parents who both had converted to Islam? If it's Luo what does it mean? If it's Muslim what does it mean? 71.86.156.73 ( talk) 05:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
The phrasing of the final paragraph seems to imply, at least to some extent, a connection between the alcoholism and the car crashes. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but could it be spelled out more explicitly. (Breaking the paragraph into two would suffice if it isn't the case.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.212.4.3 ( talk) 20:25, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
At least 2 of the women he was associated with were married to him. Shouldn't they go under spouses, not partners? Should this man's bigamy explicitly be pointed out? Even if having multiple wives was OK for him, clearly it was not for Barack's mother. ggb667
19:33, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
A paragraph on Mark's new book was added with information relevant to Obama Sr. I copyedited it, did the citation template and moved a few bits to earlier in the article. I added Kezia into the timeline of fatherhood and named the children. The family of Barack Obama article has some mention that Abo and Bernard are illegitimate and fathered during Obama Sr.'s third marriage. I can't find the sources. I can't find the source that mentions the year and 'in a tribal ceremony' marriage to Kezia. Some help please? Alatari ( talk) 02:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
The cited source (from The Standard says that Obama was born in 1936; no birthdate is specified. [10] However an April 4 birthdate is stated in the infobox and now in the text as well. I have so far found no source for this. Unless a reliable source is identified, this should be deleted. -- Arxiloxos ( talk) 16:10, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
We have new information that about Obama Sr.'s date of birth from Obama's Immigration file form recently released under the Freedom of Information Act, see Released files on Scibd. The date is given variously in the documents (at least 4 times for each date) as June 18, 1934 and June 18, 1936. Given that the 1936 date is well sourced -- even on Obama's tombstone in Kenya, I think it's appropriate to add June 18 to the existing 1936 date in the article Kevin ( talk) 16:13, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the Kenya section focuses on a misstatement by then-Senator Obama regarding support by the Kennedy's for his father's scholarship.
There are certain elements of the paragraph that are factual statements regarding Obama Sr. and the scholarship that could be added to the preceding paragraph, so that would read:
The remaining elements of the present last paragraph of that section concern statements by then-Senator Obama that were criticized in the media and for which his campaign spokesman issued a statement acknowledging the error. These remaining elements do not provide any factual information about Barack Obama Sr. With the above change to the second paragraph, should the third paragraph be deleted or moved (in its entirety or in part) to another entry. If so, to where? Should a link to the entry be included here?
Update: After comparing the above-noted criticisms to the controversies section of the Barack_Obama_presidential_primary_campaign,_2008 entry, I suggest retaining at most a factual description of the criticism and acknowledgement. The third paragraph should be reduced to an addition to the parenthetical expression in the middle of the second paragraph as follows:
The third paragraph would then be deleted.
This sentence apparently applies to the father of Hussein Onyango Obama (who would be great-grandfather to the President), who is unnamed in the article, but there is no statement that Hussein Onyango Obama himself made all his wives convert to Islam. (fotoguzzi) 76.105.160.69 ( talk) 16:54, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
(1) When Barack Sr. married Ann Dunham he was already married to another woman. (2) Being married to two woman at the same time makes you a polygamist. (3) This is a fact that is supported by a reliable source. (4) It was added in a NPOV manner. (6) The fact that he was a polygamist is an integral part of who he was therefore it is notable. An editor keeps removing this fact about him. I will return it to the article.-- InaMaka ( talk) 01:41, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
If anyone is interested, I was wondering whether we could work together to update the Kisumu page (before cleaning up the Nyanza province one) which currently reads like a travel brochure, which is very undeserving for a leading town in East Africa. If possible could you constructively help me make it better, I am hoping to get together a work group of contributers to help out so that it is something close to the Nairobi page. I will be working on this for the next week or two, if you have some spare time I will be glad if you could help me open up Kisumu to the world. Thanks!-- Krator1 ( talk) 22:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
This massive rewrite is so large and pushes together new sources with old ones in ways that don't support the facts that we will have to revert and rebuild the sources. Alatari ( talk) 00:27, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
The text seems well written and NPOV. It's the sources that are a mess. They need to be one source per reference so that all editors can follow these changes. Alatari ( talk) 00:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Here is a sandbox version to correct the sourcing in: sandbox source repair. Going back to pre Jan 21st version till sources are fixed. Alatari ( talk) 00:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
This appears under the "Early Life" section of Barack Obama Sr, but is mostly about his father, Hussein Onyango Obama. The wording is strange, and only the last sentence is actually about the subject of the article. This should probably be clarified.
98.14.196.175 ( talk) 02:23, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
It may be the "birthers" trying to introduce their conspiracy theories. Or it could be those on the left trying to keep this alive until 2012 to make it look like the GOP and the Tea Party were purposely slamming Obama Jr. on his religion, birth, eligibility for POTUS etc. It could be all, or none, of them. There has to be some one, preferably someone who is capable of no bias to workon this and edit the articles to be consistent and more clear on the dates. I would like to judge for myself, and I'm sure many others do too, on what is reliable information and not political agenda.
Also the word "cohorts" in this article should be looked into for personal bias. I removed that paragraph because it wasn't sourced-John in CinciIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.23.189 ( talk) 16:28, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
"Funds provided the following year by John F. Kennedy's family paid off old debts of the project and subsidized student stipends, thereby indirectly benefiting Obama Sr. and other members of the 1959 cohort."
This is what the source says, "The former executive director of the African-American Students Foundation, Cora Weiss, said some of the money provided by the Kennedys was used to pay off old debts and subsidize student stipends. Even though Obama Sr. arrived the previous year, he and other members of the 1959 cohort benefited indirectly from Kennedy family support. "
The sentence in the article seems to be implying something not quite fair and balanced. The use of the word "cohort", for example, seems to imply something illegal, or at the least something that could be a negative. Wikipedia's own dictionary describes the word as "An accomplice; an associate in crime", even though it is used in the source, it is taken out of context. -John in CinciIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.23.189 ( talk) 18:24, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
To the best of my recollection, all of the Obama set of articles use American spelling, even though a few of the individuals are/were British subjects. I think for consistency sake this article should also continue to use American spelling as it was originally and for a long time. Family of Barack Obama, which was an offshoot of Barack Obama and which is essentially the parent article of this Barack Obama Sr. piece, uses American spelling last time I looked. A change here should have been preceded by discussion, so, thoughts? Tvoz/ talk 21:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
← So then what to do in Family of Barack Obama where we talk about people who are American, Indonesian, Kenyan, Canadian, and even Queen Elizabeth? The only thing that makes sense is to go with American spelling because the common theme, Barack Obama, is American. And since the only reason Sr. is notable is because of Jr., the logic to me is to be consistent across articles in the set. As for consensus, we don't really have to re-establish it over and over again, we would put the {{American English}} notice here on the talk page and just point to it as a style guide. But let's see what others think. Tvoz/ talk 07:00, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
One other point: actually Lolo Soetoro uses American spelling (as does Indonesia, by the way) - so if I'm not mistaken that would make this one the only article of the group using British spelling. Tvoz/ talk 07:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Is this necessary? Shouldn't we just refer to him as "Obama" and use "Obama II" or "son of obama" or "young Obama" when referring to the president? Over on the Ann Dunham article "Obama" is used to refer to Sr. until the son is born, and then it uses "Obama Sr." for that paragraph and isn't used again (as they divorced). Afterwards "Obama" is used to refer to the son exclusively.
On an unrelated note, should we really be linking to IMDb? I mean, they list Obama has having died in 1992, when it was actually 1982. Credibility kind of takes a beating there. hbdragon88 ( talk) 05:26, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Why doesn't the article have any mention of the fact that Obama, Sr. was a polygamist? This information is well known. For example, in an Associated Press article dated yesterday April 29, 2011, Bob Salsberg refers to Obama, Sr.'s polygamous status when discussing some documents concerning Obama, Sr.'s immigration status. The fact that he had two wives, one in Africa and another in the United States, is a notable fact about Obama, Sr.'s life. Also, one of the two women that he was married to was Ann Dunham, the current President's mother. The fact that the current President of the United States's father was a polygamist when the President was conceived and born, and that status remained for several years later is a notable fact that needs to be mentioned in the article. Also, Obama, Sr.'s polygamist status seemed to play a role in his inability to finish his Ph.D. at Harvard University, another factor that lends to its notability. You can review the reliable source to support this widely known information here: Salsberg, Bob. "Files suggest elder Obama forced to leave Harvard" Associated Press, April 29, 2011.-- Distressed ( talk) 17:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Someone has added that Obama Sr. was British by nationality, possibly in connection with that second desperate attempt to find his son was not a naturally born American (this would apply much more to the first seven presidents). I'm changing this. He was Kenyan, and Kenya gained independence in 1963, but unless we're being really legalistic he was not British by nationality before that - that would have applied to a quarter of the world at one stage otherwise, and from Idi Amin through to Gandhi at others. Wikipedia does not include this in the 'nationality' section for biographical infoboxes (or some people would have several irrelevant 'nationalities' listed just because of wars in their lifetime) - see other examples, like those above. Indeed he lived under the jurisdiction of the British, and according to a legalistic point of view he was a British 'subject' (and, therefore, a kind of 'national'), but including this is misleading. The usage of the term was legally different in the days of colonies, but even then would have not have applied to him in common parlance (and I doubt he would liked to have been described as such). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.185.115.103 ( talk) 19:02, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
I see that Barack Obama Sr.'s third wife was named Ruth Nidesand and the children from that marriage go by the names Mark and David Ndesandjo. Mark and David's surname appears to be a variation of their mother's maiden name. Does anyone know (a) why they didn't use their father's surname "Obama", (b) why, if they were going to use their mother's surname, they altered it, and (c) the etymology of the variation of their mother's surname from "Nidesand" to "Ndesandjo"? -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Atheism is NOT a religion. It is the absence of religion. If Barack Obama Sr. was an atheist, the infobox should say "Religion: None". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.56.187.121 ( talk) 12:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
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My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was 2 years old; in any event, although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.
There has not been any recent debate on the infobox religion status. Also all the above discussions on this topic have not had widespread input. Therefore if anyone if "consensus" is brought up, we should at least get a new consensus on this.
Also, per the instructions on Template:Infobox person we should merely mention the persons actual religion. Not their previous beliefs or religion-of-birth. Pass a Method talk 17:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I removed the art about his childhood beliefs because i think that is inappropriate. Why should we mention what beliefs he had before he was 6 and when he was 6? Since when do peole make up their spiritual or religious beliefs as children? Pass a Method talk 00:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
You have not convinced me that his childhood beliefs are relevant. Pass a Method talk 01:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I do not believe that children are capable of making up their theological beliefs beliefs as children, particularly not between infancy and the age of six. If this was about his teenage years or at least between ten and twelve i might concede, but this is talking about very young childhood up to six. Pass a Method talk 08:38, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
and has subsequently been removed four times ( 1 2 3 4) against consensus by Pass a Method ( talk | contribs).Obama Sr. was raised in a Muslim family,[16] but converted to Christianity and changed his name from "Baraka" to the more Christian-sounding "Barack" when he was about six years old at the insistence of the Christian missionary schools he attended.[17]
The documentary created by Barack Sr.'s daughter Auma, Die Geschichte der Auma Obama Die Geschichte der Auma Obama (translated as The Education or perhaps History of Auma Obama) needs to be added to this page as part of the intro. Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:09, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I started the article here Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Die_Geschichte_der_Auma_Obama Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:09, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
It seems there is some indication or at least question as to whether Barack Sr. was in fact assassinated, especially as accounted from his sister during the film Die Geschicte der Auma Obama and the so called car accident was not true. It certainly would not have been unheard of at that time. Has this question been raised elsewhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyfrazier ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
also see relationship to Tom_Mboya Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:48, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Mboya's role in Kenya's politics and transformation is the subject of increasing interest, especially with the coming into scene of American politician Barack Obama, Jr. Obama's father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a US-educated Kenyan who benefited from Mboya's scholarship programme in the 1960s, and married during his stay there, siring the future Illinois Senator and President. Obama Sr. had seen Mboya shortly before the assassination, and testified at the ensuing trial. Obama Sr. believed he was later targeted in a hit-and-run incident as a result of this testimony.
Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:51, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
the question of whether Barack Sr.'s car accidents were in fact directly related to his drinking should also be more thoroughly investigated Tyfrazier ( talk) 16:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
It is a question which should be investigated further considering Mboya's assassination and Obama Sr.'s direct connection. Other than a few newspaper articles what evidence is there that the automobile accident was in fact due to drunk driving. Obama Sr. himself claimed an earlier accident was an attempt on his life, and he did testify at the assassination trial of Mboya. The film itself is far from conspiracy theory, and all evidence that Obama Sr. "drank" himself to ruin is not really supported. The film by Auma Obama documents more than the event, it also documents the life work of a man who appears to have been a significant, albeit polemic, figure in Kenyan politics. Tyfrazier ( talk) 18:37, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
It's clearly stated in the Tom Mboya article that Obama Sr. believed there had been an attempt on his life, and his sister also stated the same. Tyfrazier ( talk) 19:10, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
The IPA transcription given is the same as for the US President. However, Obama Sr is African born and likely used native pronunciation. Given that both Dholuo nor Swahili have no diphthongs, and only two of the vowels in the transcription exist in Dholuo, it is extremely unlikely that Obama Sr himself pronounced his name as it shown in this article. I have flagged. Perhaps a source specific to Obama Sr can be given. 60.240.207.146 ( talk) 22:36, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
This section is confusing and incomplete, making no mention of his second wife and only alluding to a third. The information can be gleaned from other parts of the article, but it would make sense to at least summarize all of his marriages, their chronology, and the children of those marriages in this section. 160.111.254.17 ( talk) 21:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Obama Senior's British passport number was 84764. It was issued in 1959, renwewed in 1964 and expired in 1969. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.219.253 ( talk) 13:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Nonetheless, this is a revelatory book, which anyone interested in modern politics will want to read, and which will certainly shape our understanding of President Obama’s strengths, weaknesses and inscrutabilities. Every few pages Maraniss offers a factual nugget that changes or enlarges the prevailing lore. For example: Obama’s Kenyan grandfather, who had five wives, was apparently not involved in Kenyan insurgencies or ever tortured by British colonialists during the Mau Mau era. (Indeed, he remained a trusted figure among white Kenyans — and although himself a convert to Islam, he sent his son to a Christian school.) Similarly: Obama’s mother was named Stanley Ann Dunham not at the perverse insistence of her father, Stanley, but because her mother was taken by the sophistication of a Bette Davis character, a woman named Stanley, in the movie “In This Our Life,” which she saw while pregnant.
[29] WeldNeck ( talk) 16:15, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( non-admin closure) – Chase ( talk / contribs) 23:17, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Barack Obama, Sr. → Barack Obama Sr. – Per a recent discussion and change to WP:JR, there should be no comma before "Sr." for the reasons that are explained in the previous discussion. A technical move is required as the target page already exists as a redirect. — sroc 💬 17:18, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 19:55, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Obama Senior was illegally married to three alleged wives at the same time in 1961. One left quickly, possibly to avoid prosecution for bigamy. In 1964, he was flung out of America. The grounds given by the INS were "no funds" and "no one could figure out how many wives he had". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.64.255 ( talk) 15:26, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
The article explicitly states in the introduction that Obama "caused" three serious car accidents in the final years of his life. I have never seen a source indicating that he caused the accidents, merely that they happened. The only indication of fault I have ever seen is a note that the first crash occurred under suspicious circumstances, implying a possible assassination attempt. I do not recall the source for that claim, so it should not be in the article, but I don't think the implication of his own guilt should be included either, in the absence of any source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.70.55.1 ( talk) 01:58, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
I see no reason why there is no religion listed. Every single reliable source claims him to be either Muslim or Atheist. EgraS ( talk) 23:45, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
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Barack Obama, Sr. – The previous RM said not to omit the comma. However, the comma was removed without further discussion. Shall we still omit the comma or enforce the RM and then reinsert it?
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The previous RM said not to omit the comma.- and it predated the new community consensus and guideline. We don't need this kind of RM. ― Mandruss ☎ 22:39, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
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In the article he published in the East Africa Journal in 1965, which is mentioned in this Wikipedia article, Obama Sr. signed his named Barak H. Obama. (not Barack). See http://kwani.org/main/problems-facing-our-socialism-barak-h-obama/ and many other web links to he article. This may mean that his first name in Kenya was Barak, not Barack, and that he changed its spelling to Barack when he came to the U.S. or before he married Ann Dunham. I have tried to insert text to this effect in the article, but it was removed. I have no idea why. Can anyone please enlighten me? Thanks.
-- Groucho ( talk) 11:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Please note that this page had been in the past been redirected per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barack Hussein Obama Sr. A new good-faith draft was created at Barack Obama Sr. and has now been moved here as history merge per a request at WP:RM, but also so that its merits as standalone article can be discussed. -- Tikiwont ( talk) 16:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I am not convinced that this should be a separate article, but if it is we need to be clear that his notability is strictly as Barack Obama's father. The lede has been reworked to reflect that - his position as an economist for the Kenyan government would not yield an article, so it is not the lead sentence. Also I included "absent" because he did not raise his son, and was not present for his growing up - they saw each other only once after he left the family. Tvoz | talk 05:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
You cannot presume he is the biological father. Hence absent father is better. You don't have to comment on the scandal of it all if you don't want to. But you are obliged not to lie and mislead people, or to claim knowledge that you do not have. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.183.191 ( talk) 21:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Let's separate the two words. Tvoz, I can't tell whether you agree with me that "biological" should go... what do you think? As for "absent," I am okay with the new sentence you inserted... I wouldn't have put it in the lede myself, but it is factual and neutral and gets the point across. Can we therefore remove the word "absent?" I think it is too subjective and I agree with Rewinn that it has a judgmental ring to it. -- Allen ( talk) 03:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
[out] Allen - I can go either way. If you and others feel strongly about it, it's ok with me to remove either or both "absent" and "biological", but only if the sentence (or a similar one) remains in the lede about his not being there to raise Barack. I think this is important to be included in the lede as his paternity is the only reason the article exists at all, but his notability is questionable to me seeing as how little he actually had to do with Barack. Hope this clarifies - it's late, so I can't tell if it's coherent enough. Tvoz | talk 07:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
While this fellow is not the most notable person in the world, he *is* the main subject of a bestselling book by a leading political figure. Whether reasonable or not, the interest in him seems far to exceed that in the parents of other celebrities, e.g. Bill Clinton's father. Thus I would suggest he is sufficiently notable for his own article. rewinn ( talk) 05:28, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
There are many books written by notable people about people who aren't very notable. And although Barack is notable, nobody talks about the book that mentions his father. His best known work is his other book "The Audacity of Hope". Simply being talked about in a book or being mentioned by the media is something many people have gone through, many of which aren't considered notable enough to be given an article. He should be mentioned in the artcles Barack Obama and other minor articles relaed to him, but not given his own. QuirkyAndSuch ( talk) 02:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
I know many people who talk and about the father of the President of the United States. He is notable to me and many others. There were over 40 thousand page views for him last month, Feb 2015. (See http://stats.grok.se/en/201502/Barack_Obama,_Sr. ) Loveonearth ( talk) 23:02, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
This article claims that Nyangoma-Kogelo is in Siaya District, while Barack Obama claims that is in Bondo District. Which one is it? Bash Kash ( talk) 04:43, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I propose this article be deleted. He is not notable. ObamaGirlMachine ( talk) 01:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Support deleting. Not notable and there is no reason to think the person this article is about will be notable in the future WP:NOTCRYSTAL. Being mentioned a few times by the media doesn't make you notable. I'm using this same argument for all biography articles being nominated for deletion that are related to Barack Obama, it's clear that Michelle Obama is the only notable person given an article, the others all seem to be fluff. QuirkyAndSuch ( talk) 01:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Oppose. My reasoning is this: Some in the public forum categorize him, Barack Hussein Obama II, (connoted or substituted as "accuse him") as Muslim. Barack Hussein Obama II is at the forefront of the public media (as of this writing October 29, 2008 @ 05:03h EST) through mostly western accessed medium. Although this categorization should be of no affect, there still exist many in the public who perpetuate the sentiment that being a Muslim harbours some potential for malfeasance. Regardless of this fact, as long as this sentiment is carried, it is in the public interest that his lineage and association be open to the public, whether for clarification or debate.
In addition Barack Hussein Obama II has made evident or notes in many public appearances, his sentiment and relationship (or lack thereof) with his father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. This inclusion into the public forum requires a reference to the validity of Barack Hussein Obama II's statements.
This topic and it's demand has been validated by Barack Hussein Obama II's inclusion of his father into the category of notable figures. It should be noted that the significance is not strong, however is sufficient in in maintaining this topic unless it is merged with that of Barack Hussein Obama II as a distinct sub-category, however such a result would be sub-optimal and contrary to who a notable figure is or how they shape first order relatives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.220.2 ( talk) 09:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Since the religion field in the infobox was filled out yesterday with "Islam", [1] "Atheism" has been added, [2] taken off, [3] re-added, [4] and now "Islam" has been taken off. [5] Does anyone know what he was at the time of his death? I know he was raised in Islam, but was apparently an Atheist by the time Barack was born, but not sure if he shifted back to Islam when he returned to Kenya. -- Bobblehead (rants) 22:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of Barack Obama, Sr being a muslim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.223.51.70 ( talk) 21:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Not only is The fact that him being Muslim not mentioned, But the evidence to prove that he was Agnostic was quoted by his Daughter Auma. In which there is no mention of her through out the whole page. Worth taking a look at. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.129.214 ( talk) 18:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Just found a Daniel Pipes essay at Front Page Magazine that (if correct) cuts through this non-moslem nonsense. Both his fathers were in fact moslem. Which nevertheless is no crime. In Islam it is a crime to leave your faith for another faith, but for a moslem to become atheist is something else again. I do not imply, that Obama should see himself as a moslem-- Radh ( talk) 18:30, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Front page magazine is definitly not neutral. Is there any always reliable source in journalism? Even the NYT made mistakes. Obama Jr. sees himself as christian. When he is elected, the moslem countries will perhaps have other ideas and this might even work in his favour? - Radh ( talk) 20:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Should this be moved to " Barack Obama I" since his son is " Barack Obama II" and not "Barack Obama, Jr."?-- 67.176.175.133 ( talk) 01:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I do not think this article should be merged. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama Senior have their own wikipedia pages, even though they are solely famous by relationship to Senator Obama. I think his grandmother deserves her own page too, especially since she's being quoted more and more often in the media.
I would ask that the notability and merge tags be removed. GreekParadise ( talk) 16:04, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that Sarah Obama plays a special role in Obama's life that the other Kenyan relatives do not play. There's a reason the media always goes to her for first comment. How about this compromise? We rename the "Sarah Obama" page to be "Sarah Obama and Barack Obama's relatives in Kenya." I think people are more likely to search for "Sarah Obama" than "Kenyan relatives of Barack Obama." GreekParadise ( talk) 21:31, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Merge proposal
What exactly is the July 2008 merge proposal? What are the reasons?
Tvoz/
talk
01:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
As the birth certificate of Barack Obama makes it evident that he is Barack Hussein Obama II, and not Barack Obama, Junior does this article fall under Barack Obama I or the significantly more common and used Barack Obama, Senior? –– Lid( Talk) 13:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Noroton (over on Talk:Barack Obama) is right about article name. "Sr." should definitely be in this article name. What we want as an article name is whatever people are most likely to search for (and what is most widely used in sources). However, the version of name that appears in the first sentence of an article (usually the first words) is supposed to be "full official name"; I think that argues against including the "Sr." in the lead, it's a popular designation but certainly not one he was born with, and probably not one he ever used in legal documents or the like. LotLE× talk 16:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps it's just me, but the current source #5 < http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431908&in_page_id=1770> referenced in talking about Obama Sr.'s conversion to Islam does not read like a reliable and neutral source - it seems much like a tabloid smear, and the Daily Mail is currently published as a tabloid. I would recommend this article be checked for neutrality. 76.247.14.237 ( talk) 01:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 15:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The caption under the photograph in this article reads "Obama, Sr. with son, Barack c.1977". On the other hand, the article itself says they never met after 1972. Obviously something is wrong, but I don't know what. If anybody knows, please correct this.-- Gorpik ( talk) 17:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
given the article is about obama, sr., it is clear who is being referenced. -- emerson7 02:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
←I am taking the above comments by myself, Loonymonkey, Wikidemon and Guyzero to be consensus that we need to clearly differentiate Obama Sr from the Senator, and as such I am reinstating my edits which emerson7 had again reverted. Clarity is indeed the goal, and the clearest way I can see to handle this is by referring the the father as "Sr.". If there are other ideas for how to handle this, please post them here on talk, rather than ignoring the consensus that has formed. Tvoz/ talk 04:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Tvoz, the chronology is now messed up, I'm afraid.
If Ann Dunham took her one-month-old son to visit Mercer Island, then that would have been in 1961, right? [6] Her husband did not graduate from University of Hawaii until June of 1962, right? [7] So how could she have been travelling to see him at Harvard when she made that visit to Mercer Island?
Also, Ann Dunham was enrolled at University of Washington in spring 1962, [8] which was before her husband had graduated from University of Hawaii. How could she have enrolled at UW after visiting her husband at Harvard, as the article now says? Ferrylodge ( talk) 03:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Was there one or two? Did he first lose his legs and later his life, or was it one and the same automobile accident? CapnZapp ( talk) 23:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of this? Is it in fact fabricated ? 14:08, 6 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.112.193 ( talk)
?????????????????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.214.34.209 ( talk) 11:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Need etymology of the name "Obama." Apparently, like "Onyango" (in the morning), "Otieno" (in the evening), or "Owino" (tangled in the umbilical cord), "Obama" (literally "crooked") is a name dictated by the circumstances of one's birth, in this case given to people born with a physical disability or with some deformity of the legs. Badagnani ( talk) 03:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I know. Old story. But, according to Obama Jr., ( here) his dad was an atheist. Let's not impose our beliefs about their beliefs on people. I deleted the religion entry from the infobox. -- Regents Park ( bail out your boat) 18:43, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Tabloids are not appropriate for sources. If contentious information cannot be backed by reliable sources, it should not be added. Users who add such sources should be warned and, if the edits are repeated, blocked. Thus, request for protection has been declined. Warn and request blocking as appropriate. لenna vecia 02:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Daily Mail is a reputable source and not a tabloid .Particurly as it is not the single source.Please check the . Newsweek which is a reliable sources also states he was a polygamist Please do not revert in a content dispute. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 11:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
At the age of 23, Obama Sr. enrolled at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, leaving behind a pregnant Kezia and their infant son. He had already turned away from Islam and become an atheist by the time he moved to the United States.[8] Barack Obama Sr.'s daughter Auma has commented that her father "was never a Muslim although he was born into a Muslim family with a Muslim name."[12]
I took the issue to Reliable sources and please check the discussion Daily Mail discussion in Reliable sources/Noticeboard and this achived older discussion Daily Mirror n Reliable sources/Noticeboard I do feel that the concensus from the discussion above is use it with other sources and not as a single source and I feel user Yoda swe edit is well sourced. Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 19:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree with you Yoda swe if the The Daily Telegraph , Daily Mail or Daily Mirror are not reliable sources atleast 40% of the references in all articles should be removed as the sources are well below them which are over 100 year old British newspapers particularly when we are not using as the single source.Sorry to say I disagree with them not being RS sources . Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk) 14:18, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Some ignorant or forgetful people might accidentally search " Obama Barack, Sr." or " Obama Barack Sr." and find no article. Shouldn't it be redirected to " Barack Obama, Sr."? Zheliel ( talk) 10:24, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I removed a tag on the "early life" section that said it is contradictory - please give an explanation here of what is seen as contradictory, so editors can address it. Thank you. Tvoz/ talk 21:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
“ | Obama Sr. was born in Kanyadhiang village, Rachuonyo District on the shores of Lake Victoria just outside Kendu Bay, Kenya, at the time a colony of the British Empire, and raised in the village of Nyang’oma Kogelo, Siaya District. He was the son of Hussein Onyango Obama (c. 1895-1979) and his second wife, Akumu Habiba. His family are members of the Luo ethnic group. Obama Sr. was raised as a Muslim, but later became an atheist. Before working as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi, Onyango had travelled widely, enlisting with the name Onyango Obama in the British colonial forces and visiting Europe, India, and Zanzibar, where he converted from Christianity to Islam. Onyango had at least three wives; Barack Obama Sr. was the son of Akumu, the second wife. However, he was raised by Onyango's third wife, Sarah, after Akumu left her family and separated from her husband in 1945. Obama Sr. was married in 1954 at the age of eighteen, in a tribal ceremony to Kezia, with whom he had four children. | ” |
The bibliography section for this article looks non-standard. I think it needs the attention of an expert. Jarhed ( talk) 21:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
There's a dispute over the meaning of his name going on and I can't find the answer. I went to a Muslim baby naming site and found these four translations:
Can anyone find the Arabic spelling (or original if not in Arabic script) of Obama Sr. given name? I searched the Arabic Wiki and none of the Arabic character phrases I list above are found in the article. Alatari ( talk) 03:59, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
If people are wanting to come here and read about the English translation of his first name then it's relevant. The script of Swahili was originally in Arabic... Much of Swahili is borrowed from Arabic because of the trade and proximity to Arabia. So was this name borrowed from Muslim tradition or was it just a popular name at the time? He was a professed Muslim at least for a time. Alatari ( talk) 15:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Cite your source that his name has no meaning or his parents meant none. Alatari ( talk) 15:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Like you said it is probably a borrowed word. The point is to quell the rumors by determining the origin of the name by finding an interview record by Jr. or Sr. or Jr.s Mother or a birth certificate, something to show the intent of the parents and what they meant by the name. Saying this is impossible is just avoiding the point. Since there is a rumor and the President has a public image to maintain the information maybe out there. Now have I been clear enough? I'm hoping someone who has researched this page heavily might have the answer in their bookmarks of sources or be able to find it more easily than on my attempts. Alatari ( talk) 18:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
It's not OR to request a source for Obama Sr.s birth certificate or a family historians writings or a genealogy chart. Besides his father: Family of Barack Obama#Hussein Onyango Obama "According to his third wife, Sarah, he originally converted to Catholicism, but took the name Hussein when he later converted to Islam; she said he passed the name, not the religion, on to his children.[49]" and his mother: Family of Barack Obama#Habiba Akumu Obama "Luos are given name related the circumstances of their birth and Akumu means mysterious birth, a conception after a birth, but before resumption of menses.[50] She took the name Habiba upon her conversion to Islam." Both parents were Islam converts and that article is focused on the meanings of the family members names. I'm not asking for anything that Family of Barack Obama editors haven't researched and added to that article.
" Luos are given name related the circumstances of their birth" so is Barack a Luos word given at his birth or a Muslim name passed on by his parents who both had converted to Islam? If it's Luo what does it mean? If it's Muslim what does it mean? 71.86.156.73 ( talk) 05:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
The phrasing of the final paragraph seems to imply, at least to some extent, a connection between the alcoholism and the car crashes. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but could it be spelled out more explicitly. (Breaking the paragraph into two would suffice if it isn't the case.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.212.4.3 ( talk) 20:25, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
At least 2 of the women he was associated with were married to him. Shouldn't they go under spouses, not partners? Should this man's bigamy explicitly be pointed out? Even if having multiple wives was OK for him, clearly it was not for Barack's mother. ggb667
19:33, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
A paragraph on Mark's new book was added with information relevant to Obama Sr. I copyedited it, did the citation template and moved a few bits to earlier in the article. I added Kezia into the timeline of fatherhood and named the children. The family of Barack Obama article has some mention that Abo and Bernard are illegitimate and fathered during Obama Sr.'s third marriage. I can't find the sources. I can't find the source that mentions the year and 'in a tribal ceremony' marriage to Kezia. Some help please? Alatari ( talk) 02:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
The cited source (from The Standard says that Obama was born in 1936; no birthdate is specified. [10] However an April 4 birthdate is stated in the infobox and now in the text as well. I have so far found no source for this. Unless a reliable source is identified, this should be deleted. -- Arxiloxos ( talk) 16:10, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
We have new information that about Obama Sr.'s date of birth from Obama's Immigration file form recently released under the Freedom of Information Act, see Released files on Scibd. The date is given variously in the documents (at least 4 times for each date) as June 18, 1934 and June 18, 1936. Given that the 1936 date is well sourced -- even on Obama's tombstone in Kenya, I think it's appropriate to add June 18 to the existing 1936 date in the article Kevin ( talk) 16:13, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the Kenya section focuses on a misstatement by then-Senator Obama regarding support by the Kennedy's for his father's scholarship.
There are certain elements of the paragraph that are factual statements regarding Obama Sr. and the scholarship that could be added to the preceding paragraph, so that would read:
The remaining elements of the present last paragraph of that section concern statements by then-Senator Obama that were criticized in the media and for which his campaign spokesman issued a statement acknowledging the error. These remaining elements do not provide any factual information about Barack Obama Sr. With the above change to the second paragraph, should the third paragraph be deleted or moved (in its entirety or in part) to another entry. If so, to where? Should a link to the entry be included here?
Update: After comparing the above-noted criticisms to the controversies section of the Barack_Obama_presidential_primary_campaign,_2008 entry, I suggest retaining at most a factual description of the criticism and acknowledgement. The third paragraph should be reduced to an addition to the parenthetical expression in the middle of the second paragraph as follows:
The third paragraph would then be deleted.
This sentence apparently applies to the father of Hussein Onyango Obama (who would be great-grandfather to the President), who is unnamed in the article, but there is no statement that Hussein Onyango Obama himself made all his wives convert to Islam. (fotoguzzi) 76.105.160.69 ( talk) 16:54, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
(1) When Barack Sr. married Ann Dunham he was already married to another woman. (2) Being married to two woman at the same time makes you a polygamist. (3) This is a fact that is supported by a reliable source. (4) It was added in a NPOV manner. (6) The fact that he was a polygamist is an integral part of who he was therefore it is notable. An editor keeps removing this fact about him. I will return it to the article.-- InaMaka ( talk) 01:41, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
If anyone is interested, I was wondering whether we could work together to update the Kisumu page (before cleaning up the Nyanza province one) which currently reads like a travel brochure, which is very undeserving for a leading town in East Africa. If possible could you constructively help me make it better, I am hoping to get together a work group of contributers to help out so that it is something close to the Nairobi page. I will be working on this for the next week or two, if you have some spare time I will be glad if you could help me open up Kisumu to the world. Thanks!-- Krator1 ( talk) 22:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
This massive rewrite is so large and pushes together new sources with old ones in ways that don't support the facts that we will have to revert and rebuild the sources. Alatari ( talk) 00:27, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
The text seems well written and NPOV. It's the sources that are a mess. They need to be one source per reference so that all editors can follow these changes. Alatari ( talk) 00:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Here is a sandbox version to correct the sourcing in: sandbox source repair. Going back to pre Jan 21st version till sources are fixed. Alatari ( talk) 00:45, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
This appears under the "Early Life" section of Barack Obama Sr, but is mostly about his father, Hussein Onyango Obama. The wording is strange, and only the last sentence is actually about the subject of the article. This should probably be clarified.
98.14.196.175 ( talk) 02:23, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
It may be the "birthers" trying to introduce their conspiracy theories. Or it could be those on the left trying to keep this alive until 2012 to make it look like the GOP and the Tea Party were purposely slamming Obama Jr. on his religion, birth, eligibility for POTUS etc. It could be all, or none, of them. There has to be some one, preferably someone who is capable of no bias to workon this and edit the articles to be consistent and more clear on the dates. I would like to judge for myself, and I'm sure many others do too, on what is reliable information and not political agenda.
Also the word "cohorts" in this article should be looked into for personal bias. I removed that paragraph because it wasn't sourced-John in CinciIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.23.189 ( talk) 16:28, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
"Funds provided the following year by John F. Kennedy's family paid off old debts of the project and subsidized student stipends, thereby indirectly benefiting Obama Sr. and other members of the 1959 cohort."
This is what the source says, "The former executive director of the African-American Students Foundation, Cora Weiss, said some of the money provided by the Kennedys was used to pay off old debts and subsidize student stipends. Even though Obama Sr. arrived the previous year, he and other members of the 1959 cohort benefited indirectly from Kennedy family support. "
The sentence in the article seems to be implying something not quite fair and balanced. The use of the word "cohort", for example, seems to imply something illegal, or at the least something that could be a negative. Wikipedia's own dictionary describes the word as "An accomplice; an associate in crime", even though it is used in the source, it is taken out of context. -John in CinciIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.83.23.189 ( talk) 18:24, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
To the best of my recollection, all of the Obama set of articles use American spelling, even though a few of the individuals are/were British subjects. I think for consistency sake this article should also continue to use American spelling as it was originally and for a long time. Family of Barack Obama, which was an offshoot of Barack Obama and which is essentially the parent article of this Barack Obama Sr. piece, uses American spelling last time I looked. A change here should have been preceded by discussion, so, thoughts? Tvoz/ talk 21:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
← So then what to do in Family of Barack Obama where we talk about people who are American, Indonesian, Kenyan, Canadian, and even Queen Elizabeth? The only thing that makes sense is to go with American spelling because the common theme, Barack Obama, is American. And since the only reason Sr. is notable is because of Jr., the logic to me is to be consistent across articles in the set. As for consensus, we don't really have to re-establish it over and over again, we would put the {{American English}} notice here on the talk page and just point to it as a style guide. But let's see what others think. Tvoz/ talk 07:00, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
One other point: actually Lolo Soetoro uses American spelling (as does Indonesia, by the way) - so if I'm not mistaken that would make this one the only article of the group using British spelling. Tvoz/ talk 07:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
Is this necessary? Shouldn't we just refer to him as "Obama" and use "Obama II" or "son of obama" or "young Obama" when referring to the president? Over on the Ann Dunham article "Obama" is used to refer to Sr. until the son is born, and then it uses "Obama Sr." for that paragraph and isn't used again (as they divorced). Afterwards "Obama" is used to refer to the son exclusively.
On an unrelated note, should we really be linking to IMDb? I mean, they list Obama has having died in 1992, when it was actually 1982. Credibility kind of takes a beating there. hbdragon88 ( talk) 05:26, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Why doesn't the article have any mention of the fact that Obama, Sr. was a polygamist? This information is well known. For example, in an Associated Press article dated yesterday April 29, 2011, Bob Salsberg refers to Obama, Sr.'s polygamous status when discussing some documents concerning Obama, Sr.'s immigration status. The fact that he had two wives, one in Africa and another in the United States, is a notable fact about Obama, Sr.'s life. Also, one of the two women that he was married to was Ann Dunham, the current President's mother. The fact that the current President of the United States's father was a polygamist when the President was conceived and born, and that status remained for several years later is a notable fact that needs to be mentioned in the article. Also, Obama, Sr.'s polygamist status seemed to play a role in his inability to finish his Ph.D. at Harvard University, another factor that lends to its notability. You can review the reliable source to support this widely known information here: Salsberg, Bob. "Files suggest elder Obama forced to leave Harvard" Associated Press, April 29, 2011.-- Distressed ( talk) 17:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Someone has added that Obama Sr. was British by nationality, possibly in connection with that second desperate attempt to find his son was not a naturally born American (this would apply much more to the first seven presidents). I'm changing this. He was Kenyan, and Kenya gained independence in 1963, but unless we're being really legalistic he was not British by nationality before that - that would have applied to a quarter of the world at one stage otherwise, and from Idi Amin through to Gandhi at others. Wikipedia does not include this in the 'nationality' section for biographical infoboxes (or some people would have several irrelevant 'nationalities' listed just because of wars in their lifetime) - see other examples, like those above. Indeed he lived under the jurisdiction of the British, and according to a legalistic point of view he was a British 'subject' (and, therefore, a kind of 'national'), but including this is misleading. The usage of the term was legally different in the days of colonies, but even then would have not have applied to him in common parlance (and I doubt he would liked to have been described as such). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.185.115.103 ( talk) 19:02, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
I see that Barack Obama Sr.'s third wife was named Ruth Nidesand and the children from that marriage go by the names Mark and David Ndesandjo. Mark and David's surname appears to be a variation of their mother's maiden name. Does anyone know (a) why they didn't use their father's surname "Obama", (b) why, if they were going to use their mother's surname, they altered it, and (c) the etymology of the variation of their mother's surname from "Nidesand" to "Ndesandjo"? -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:47, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Atheism is NOT a religion. It is the absence of religion. If Barack Obama Sr. was an atheist, the infobox should say "Religion: None". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.56.187.121 ( talk) 12:18, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
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My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was 2 years old; in any event, although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.
There has not been any recent debate on the infobox religion status. Also all the above discussions on this topic have not had widespread input. Therefore if anyone if "consensus" is brought up, we should at least get a new consensus on this.
Also, per the instructions on Template:Infobox person we should merely mention the persons actual religion. Not their previous beliefs or religion-of-birth. Pass a Method talk 17:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I removed the art about his childhood beliefs because i think that is inappropriate. Why should we mention what beliefs he had before he was 6 and when he was 6? Since when do peole make up their spiritual or religious beliefs as children? Pass a Method talk 00:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
You have not convinced me that his childhood beliefs are relevant. Pass a Method talk 01:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I do not believe that children are capable of making up their theological beliefs beliefs as children, particularly not between infancy and the age of six. If this was about his teenage years or at least between ten and twelve i might concede, but this is talking about very young childhood up to six. Pass a Method talk 08:38, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
and has subsequently been removed four times ( 1 2 3 4) against consensus by Pass a Method ( talk | contribs).Obama Sr. was raised in a Muslim family,[16] but converted to Christianity and changed his name from "Baraka" to the more Christian-sounding "Barack" when he was about six years old at the insistence of the Christian missionary schools he attended.[17]
The documentary created by Barack Sr.'s daughter Auma, Die Geschichte der Auma Obama Die Geschichte der Auma Obama (translated as The Education or perhaps History of Auma Obama) needs to be added to this page as part of the intro. Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:09, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I started the article here Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Die_Geschichte_der_Auma_Obama Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:09, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
It seems there is some indication or at least question as to whether Barack Sr. was in fact assassinated, especially as accounted from his sister during the film Die Geschicte der Auma Obama and the so called car accident was not true. It certainly would not have been unheard of at that time. Has this question been raised elsewhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyfrazier ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
also see relationship to Tom_Mboya Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:48, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Mboya's role in Kenya's politics and transformation is the subject of increasing interest, especially with the coming into scene of American politician Barack Obama, Jr. Obama's father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a US-educated Kenyan who benefited from Mboya's scholarship programme in the 1960s, and married during his stay there, siring the future Illinois Senator and President. Obama Sr. had seen Mboya shortly before the assassination, and testified at the ensuing trial. Obama Sr. believed he was later targeted in a hit-and-run incident as a result of this testimony.
Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:51, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
the question of whether Barack Sr.'s car accidents were in fact directly related to his drinking should also be more thoroughly investigated Tyfrazier ( talk) 16:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
It is a question which should be investigated further considering Mboya's assassination and Obama Sr.'s direct connection. Other than a few newspaper articles what evidence is there that the automobile accident was in fact due to drunk driving. Obama Sr. himself claimed an earlier accident was an attempt on his life, and he did testify at the assassination trial of Mboya. The film itself is far from conspiracy theory, and all evidence that Obama Sr. "drank" himself to ruin is not really supported. The film by Auma Obama documents more than the event, it also documents the life work of a man who appears to have been a significant, albeit polemic, figure in Kenyan politics. Tyfrazier ( talk) 18:37, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
It's clearly stated in the Tom Mboya article that Obama Sr. believed there had been an attempt on his life, and his sister also stated the same. Tyfrazier ( talk) 19:10, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
The IPA transcription given is the same as for the US President. However, Obama Sr is African born and likely used native pronunciation. Given that both Dholuo nor Swahili have no diphthongs, and only two of the vowels in the transcription exist in Dholuo, it is extremely unlikely that Obama Sr himself pronounced his name as it shown in this article. I have flagged. Perhaps a source specific to Obama Sr can be given. 60.240.207.146 ( talk) 22:36, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
This section is confusing and incomplete, making no mention of his second wife and only alluding to a third. The information can be gleaned from other parts of the article, but it would make sense to at least summarize all of his marriages, their chronology, and the children of those marriages in this section. 160.111.254.17 ( talk) 21:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Obama Senior's British passport number was 84764. It was issued in 1959, renwewed in 1964 and expired in 1969. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.219.253 ( talk) 13:01, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
Nonetheless, this is a revelatory book, which anyone interested in modern politics will want to read, and which will certainly shape our understanding of President Obama’s strengths, weaknesses and inscrutabilities. Every few pages Maraniss offers a factual nugget that changes or enlarges the prevailing lore. For example: Obama’s Kenyan grandfather, who had five wives, was apparently not involved in Kenyan insurgencies or ever tortured by British colonialists during the Mau Mau era. (Indeed, he remained a trusted figure among white Kenyans — and although himself a convert to Islam, he sent his son to a Christian school.) Similarly: Obama’s mother was named Stanley Ann Dunham not at the perverse insistence of her father, Stanley, but because her mother was taken by the sophistication of a Bette Davis character, a woman named Stanley, in the movie “In This Our Life,” which she saw while pregnant.
[29] WeldNeck ( talk) 16:15, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( non-admin closure) – Chase ( talk / contribs) 23:17, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Barack Obama, Sr. → Barack Obama Sr. – Per a recent discussion and change to WP:JR, there should be no comma before "Sr." for the reasons that are explained in the previous discussion. A technical move is required as the target page already exists as a redirect. — sroc 💬 17:18, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 19:55, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Obama Senior was illegally married to three alleged wives at the same time in 1961. One left quickly, possibly to avoid prosecution for bigamy. In 1964, he was flung out of America. The grounds given by the INS were "no funds" and "no one could figure out how many wives he had". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.64.255 ( talk) 15:26, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
The article explicitly states in the introduction that Obama "caused" three serious car accidents in the final years of his life. I have never seen a source indicating that he caused the accidents, merely that they happened. The only indication of fault I have ever seen is a note that the first crash occurred under suspicious circumstances, implying a possible assassination attempt. I do not recall the source for that claim, so it should not be in the article, but I don't think the implication of his own guilt should be included either, in the absence of any source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.70.55.1 ( talk) 01:58, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
I see no reason why there is no religion listed. Every single reliable source claims him to be either Muslim or Atheist. EgraS ( talk) 23:45, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
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