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How does the Ayers section violate WP:NPOV or WP:UNDUEWEIGHT? There was nothing in the section that was not adapted from the main article about the Obama-Ayers controversy and the John McCain presidential campaign, 2008 article; the section cited all the same reliable sources, and the opposition's campaign is certainly not a "fringe" viewpoint in an article about a presidential campaign.
I added the section after Skydiver99 suggested in an edit comment that some background was needed on Obama's mention of the controversy at the counter-smear site, since the mention of that only cited the counter-smear site itself. There are similar mentions of campaign controversies in articles about other presidential campaigns; the article on Clinton's 1992 campaign, for example, mentions the controversies over Gennifer Flowers and allegations of "draft-dodging," while the article on Bush's 2004 campaign has a section listing several controversies that arose during that campaign.
ᛟ ListenerX TalkerX 02:29, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
“ | In October 2008, the McCain campaign raised the issue of Obama's alleged connections with Bill Ayers, which had also been raised during the primaries. After an article appeared in the New York Times tracing Obama's connections with Ayers, Sarah Palin mentioned it in several campaign speeches [cite NYT article]. Obama has condemned Ayers's past [cite condemnations], and numerous media investigations have found no close connections between the two [cite investigations]. | ” |
Bill Ayers is mentioned once, stating it was a smear. This is clearly POV since 1) not just republicans brought up the subject. Clinton and George Stephenopoulos both had issues with it, and 2) it is covered extensively in the CNN article that I cited. Removing that information is blatant POV. THe referrence and the comments should stay. Bytebear ( talk) 17:49, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
We are not done until the article has been removed of POV. To presnent that Obama has a website discounting Ayers with no mention of Ayers other than that is POV. I am proposing we add from reputable sources (CNN and NYTimes) facts about obama's claims, namely that he has downplayed his relationshop with Ayers. I don't think that is too much to ask. As it is, the presentation of Ayers right now is clearly POV. Bytebear ( talk) 19:01, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Newross ( talk) 06:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
The "controversies" in the "Campaign controversies" sections of the George W. Bush presidential campaign, 2004 and John Kerry presidential campaign, 2004 articles are not "obviously relevant topics" simply because "they have been a part of those articles for quite some time." Those "controversies" have been a part of those articles for quite some time because no one seems to care about the poor quality of those articles. Newross ( talk) 23:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
While there is apparently a source for this (if we can track down the articl in the merged NYT/IHT archives), this appears excessively trivial. While campaign songs, artwork, radio and TV commercials are frequently commented on and believed to have relevance, I don't see what importance the choice of typeface has. I'd be inclined to delete it. Thoughts? Will Beback talk 23:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Is it worth noting that the campaign itself won a number of awards, including a Grand Prix in two categories at the Cannes Lions, the highest prize attainable in the advertising/marketing industry? (see this piece in Campaign magazine for some coverage on this aspect.) GeeJo (t)⁄ (c) • 18:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I have added back the Hope poster. I hope all agree.-- Dstern1 ( talk) 00:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't necessarily have to be a big section, or even have it's own section, but it's worth mentioning considering its effects on the campaign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.133.229.226 ( talk) 21:19, 3 October 2009 (UTC) Nice very nice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.9.157.188 ( talk) 07:06, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Democracy can be measured in many ways. One way is the ratio of voters to the adult population. Remember, Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that everyone can edit. How democratic! If one person has concluded that they own a page then Wikipedia becomes autocratic.
Id447 ( talk) 22:50, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
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Listen to "Weed Plant" from the band "Fishbone", then you'll know where the slogan is from. "Yes you can", but i understood "Yes We Can" smoke Marihuana... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.143.81.217 ( talk) 22:44, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
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Hi, I'm new to Wikipedia so I might be wrong but one of the cited sources doesn't have a hyperlink. Can someone take a look at it? Thank you! Xenos,M. and W. Lance Bennett."THE DISCONNECTION IN ONLINE POLITICS: The Youth Political Sphere and US Election Sites, 2002–2004." Information, Communication, and Society 10 (2007): 443–64. -- 0riK ( talk) 20:00, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
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Based on a suggestion on Talk:Barack Obama, a new baby Wikiproject has been formed:
Please check it out, watchlist it, join and sign up. Let's get some GAs and FAs going out of this! :) rootology ( C)( T) 20:11, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
The image File:Obama logomark.svg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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How does the Ayers section violate WP:NPOV or WP:UNDUEWEIGHT? There was nothing in the section that was not adapted from the main article about the Obama-Ayers controversy and the John McCain presidential campaign, 2008 article; the section cited all the same reliable sources, and the opposition's campaign is certainly not a "fringe" viewpoint in an article about a presidential campaign.
I added the section after Skydiver99 suggested in an edit comment that some background was needed on Obama's mention of the controversy at the counter-smear site, since the mention of that only cited the counter-smear site itself. There are similar mentions of campaign controversies in articles about other presidential campaigns; the article on Clinton's 1992 campaign, for example, mentions the controversies over Gennifer Flowers and allegations of "draft-dodging," while the article on Bush's 2004 campaign has a section listing several controversies that arose during that campaign.
ᛟ ListenerX TalkerX 02:29, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
“ | In October 2008, the McCain campaign raised the issue of Obama's alleged connections with Bill Ayers, which had also been raised during the primaries. After an article appeared in the New York Times tracing Obama's connections with Ayers, Sarah Palin mentioned it in several campaign speeches [cite NYT article]. Obama has condemned Ayers's past [cite condemnations], and numerous media investigations have found no close connections between the two [cite investigations]. | ” |
Bill Ayers is mentioned once, stating it was a smear. This is clearly POV since 1) not just republicans brought up the subject. Clinton and George Stephenopoulos both had issues with it, and 2) it is covered extensively in the CNN article that I cited. Removing that information is blatant POV. THe referrence and the comments should stay. Bytebear ( talk) 17:49, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
We are not done until the article has been removed of POV. To presnent that Obama has a website discounting Ayers with no mention of Ayers other than that is POV. I am proposing we add from reputable sources (CNN and NYTimes) facts about obama's claims, namely that he has downplayed his relationshop with Ayers. I don't think that is too much to ask. As it is, the presentation of Ayers right now is clearly POV. Bytebear ( talk) 19:01, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Newross ( talk) 06:40, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
The "controversies" in the "Campaign controversies" sections of the George W. Bush presidential campaign, 2004 and John Kerry presidential campaign, 2004 articles are not "obviously relevant topics" simply because "they have been a part of those articles for quite some time." Those "controversies" have been a part of those articles for quite some time because no one seems to care about the poor quality of those articles. Newross ( talk) 23:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
While there is apparently a source for this (if we can track down the articl in the merged NYT/IHT archives), this appears excessively trivial. While campaign songs, artwork, radio and TV commercials are frequently commented on and believed to have relevance, I don't see what importance the choice of typeface has. I'd be inclined to delete it. Thoughts? Will Beback talk 23:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Is it worth noting that the campaign itself won a number of awards, including a Grand Prix in two categories at the Cannes Lions, the highest prize attainable in the advertising/marketing industry? (see this piece in Campaign magazine for some coverage on this aspect.) GeeJo (t)⁄ (c) • 18:29, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I have added back the Hope poster. I hope all agree.-- Dstern1 ( talk) 00:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Doesn't necessarily have to be a big section, or even have it's own section, but it's worth mentioning considering its effects on the campaign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.133.229.226 ( talk) 21:19, 3 October 2009 (UTC) Nice very nice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.9.157.188 ( talk) 07:06, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
Democracy can be measured in many ways. One way is the ratio of voters to the adult population. Remember, Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that everyone can edit. How democratic! If one person has concluded that they own a page then Wikipedia becomes autocratic.
Id447 ( talk) 22:50, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
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Listen to "Weed Plant" from the band "Fishbone", then you'll know where the slogan is from. "Yes you can", but i understood "Yes We Can" smoke Marihuana... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.143.81.217 ( talk) 22:44, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
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Hi, I'm new to Wikipedia so I might be wrong but one of the cited sources doesn't have a hyperlink. Can someone take a look at it? Thank you! Xenos,M. and W. Lance Bennett."THE DISCONNECTION IN ONLINE POLITICS: The Youth Political Sphere and US Election Sites, 2002–2004." Information, Communication, and Society 10 (2007): 443–64. -- 0riK ( talk) 20:00, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
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