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There seems to be some confusion about the use of the terms "wild" and "feral" in the context of Banker horses.
To the best of my knowledge, a feral animal is one that was born to domesticated stock, but lives in the wild. If an animal is born to feral stock, it is a wild animal. Apparently, this is supported by the authors of The Encyclopedia of Mammals, as referred to in the WP article "feral": Feral#cite_note-2 Therefore, Banker horses are wild horses believed to be descended from feral horses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Allolex ( talk • contribs) 20:07, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Some stuff going on in Congress relatd to management of these herds. Yohmom or someone may want to add a short update. Montanabw (talk) 22:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC) see: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=16979
An attempt at addressing the current legislation on the Corolla population. I've added the links to the sources in the text. A very intriguing debate over land use and the application of the word feral. These sources (scroll through the massive text) captures the position of the FWS while Corolla Wild Horseare the opposition. The passage below requires a lot of work. I struggled with phrasing real-time events. I also see a potential for my bias (although I truly see both sides). No effort at citations - although I did provide the links to my sources and paraphrased adequately! I shutter to think what a copy/edit would do to my comma use! But maybe there is enough here to inspire someone to work it in the article; it is very relevant and most interesting! Also, this is one of my favorites - although I have some personal bias.... come on Yohmom --- make me proud!?-- JimmyButler ( talk) 00:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
the lead editors on this article may want to add the update discussed here, or perhaps they can wait to see if the bill actually passes: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=18080 Montanabw (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
In some areas particularly in Europe people are unfamiliar with the mosquito plague and so there often the idea of troops spraying deet is a really shocking idea. Besides hunting for info about the island and scouts is bringing back amounts of confusing analogies in the way of "foam and spray" or "the most extreme salt spray", that are refering other matters. Could someone please fix the related sentences ? Thanks ia; -- Askedonty ( talk) 10:13, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Taking to talk now rather than later. Please do not make significant changes to this article without discussion. A "breed" of animal does not have to necessarily be selectively bred by humans. The landrace versus breed versus type question can be debated elsewhere rather than across multiple individual articles. Montanabw (talk) 02:26, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
But. fair enough on the method-of-resolution issue. This will need to be settled eventually, but since the articles in question need way better sourcing, I don't have any objection to deferring what to do with this article and various others that are clearly landraces not breeds in any meaningful sense. As a technicality, I do have to note that FA status does not make an article uneditable, and certainly isn't reason to avoid fixing terminological errors, original research, or even ambiguous wording in it. In this case I don't have an objection to deferring that for a while, but it needs to be resolved soon, because the current text is unacceptably misleading.
Suggestion of the most likely solution: (Not calling it a proposal, because this isn't the place to resolve it, I'm just tossing the idea out for consideration in the interim.) The simplest way out of and forever away from this sort of dispute is the one already used at
Long-haired domestic cat and various other articles on what are provable landraces not systematic breeds, but which some sources (e.g. show/competition organizations, or conservation groups, or just "X Breeds of the World" books) treat as if it were a breed or even stick a "breed" label on it for their own internal purposes. The general formula is something like this: The Cthulhonian foobeast is a
landrace of foobeast found around the Arkham, Massachusetts area. ... While not a formal
breed, the North American Foo Conservancy and the World Foobeast Association both include it in their lists of foobeast breeds (defined more broadly), and capitalize it as Cthulhonian Foobeast.
Features none of the following:
This approach has been stable for several years at various cat and dog landrace articles. It can also be applied to the rare case of broad domestic type being, here and there, labeled a "breed" in some imprecise sources (where they are otherwise reliable enough that we don't want to just discard them).
A similar information presentation strategy works well when a single article covers both a landrace and a breed with the same name (the number of such articles is going to increase sharply the better-researched these articles become, because quite a large number of modern breeds are derived from same-named landraces. That they're not identical is obvious, e.g. by looking at a modern Siamese cat and what that breed originally looked like when developed from the landrace 4 or so human generations ago. Anyway, such a case might look something like this: The Cthulhonian Foobeast is a
breed of foobeast native to the Arkham, Massachusetts area. ... The formal breed was developed in the 1990s from a local
landrace of the same name (usually written Cthulhonian foobeast, without the capitalization), which remains extant with the breed. Miskatonic University maintains a free-breeding herd of landrace Chtulhonian foobeasts, and
feral populations still live in nearby woodlands.
Easy-peasy. —
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼
06:06, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20060513021243/http://www.equinekingdom.com/breeds/light_horses/banker.htm. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 21:50, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Banker horse -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 18:38, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
All are around 13 hands (and near same weight from the article). I've heard the name Chincoteague for years..Never a "Banker". 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:14, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
<Ooops> Sorry. I guess they are different. One is Virginia other North Carolina - But both are on 'bank islands'of the Atlantic. Gotta be the same range though??? 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:20, 21 January 2016 (UTC) Different breeds indeed - The Ocracoke and Chincoteague Islands are far apart, roughly 300 miles - Just writing this because presumably there will be a million other fools like myself asking the same question. 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:29, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Well plot does indeed thicken below from website :: http://www.thecolorfulchincoteague.com/outcrosshistory.html "A study published in 1991 titled Genetic Variation and its Management Applications in Eastern U.S. Feral Horses took samples from 60% of the Virginia herd in April 1987. The study found a close genetic resemblance between the ponies and two breeds primarily, the Paso Fino and the Shetland. A genetic resemblance was also found to the feral island herds of Cumberland Island and Ocracoke Island. The study found a higher level of genetic diversity in the herd compared to the other feral Atlantic herds which was possibly "the result of repeated introductions of horses to the island from a variety of sources."
So both the Banker Horse and Chincoteague/Assateague have Paso Fino - However I can find no mention of a Genetic Marker for the Chincoteague. Alas there is much more prior mismanagement of the Chincoteague/Assateague bloodlines. and from the Equus Survival Trust and Livestock Conservation webpages it reads like the effort is to preserve a quality line of the Banker Horse. 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:52, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
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"Bankers" is also a term once used for human residents of parts of the Outer Banks. The term is used in that context less commonly nowadays because Portsmouth Island, Core Banks, Cape Lookout and Shackleford Banks are no longer populated. The Banker families who lived there for generations gradually moved to "Promise Land" in Morehead City, Beaufort, Harker's Island or the many fishing villages (like Bettie, Otway, Smyrna, Marshallberg, Straits, Gloucester, Williston, Davis, Atlantic, Sea Level, and Cedar Island) on the mainland shore of Core Sound, 2 to 4 miles across the Sound from Core Banks. [1] 107.12.220.49 ( talk) 16:46, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Banker horse article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Banker horse is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 21, 2016. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was intensively edited during the Fall of 2008 and the Spring of 2009 as a high school assignment ( WikiProject AP Biology 2008). The collaboration between the students and the wider Wikipedia community culminated in Featured Article status being granted to this article. |
|
|
There seems to be some confusion about the use of the terms "wild" and "feral" in the context of Banker horses.
To the best of my knowledge, a feral animal is one that was born to domesticated stock, but lives in the wild. If an animal is born to feral stock, it is a wild animal. Apparently, this is supported by the authors of The Encyclopedia of Mammals, as referred to in the WP article "feral": Feral#cite_note-2 Therefore, Banker horses are wild horses believed to be descended from feral horses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Allolex ( talk • contribs) 20:07, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Some stuff going on in Congress relatd to management of these herds. Yohmom or someone may want to add a short update. Montanabw (talk) 22:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC) see: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=16979
An attempt at addressing the current legislation on the Corolla population. I've added the links to the sources in the text. A very intriguing debate over land use and the application of the word feral. These sources (scroll through the massive text) captures the position of the FWS while Corolla Wild Horseare the opposition. The passage below requires a lot of work. I struggled with phrasing real-time events. I also see a potential for my bias (although I truly see both sides). No effort at citations - although I did provide the links to my sources and paraphrased adequately! I shutter to think what a copy/edit would do to my comma use! But maybe there is enough here to inspire someone to work it in the article; it is very relevant and most interesting! Also, this is one of my favorites - although I have some personal bias.... come on Yohmom --- make me proud!?-- JimmyButler ( talk) 00:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
the lead editors on this article may want to add the update discussed here, or perhaps they can wait to see if the bill actually passes: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=18080 Montanabw (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
In some areas particularly in Europe people are unfamiliar with the mosquito plague and so there often the idea of troops spraying deet is a really shocking idea. Besides hunting for info about the island and scouts is bringing back amounts of confusing analogies in the way of "foam and spray" or "the most extreme salt spray", that are refering other matters. Could someone please fix the related sentences ? Thanks ia; -- Askedonty ( talk) 10:13, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Taking to talk now rather than later. Please do not make significant changes to this article without discussion. A "breed" of animal does not have to necessarily be selectively bred by humans. The landrace versus breed versus type question can be debated elsewhere rather than across multiple individual articles. Montanabw (talk) 02:26, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
But. fair enough on the method-of-resolution issue. This will need to be settled eventually, but since the articles in question need way better sourcing, I don't have any objection to deferring what to do with this article and various others that are clearly landraces not breeds in any meaningful sense. As a technicality, I do have to note that FA status does not make an article uneditable, and certainly isn't reason to avoid fixing terminological errors, original research, or even ambiguous wording in it. In this case I don't have an objection to deferring that for a while, but it needs to be resolved soon, because the current text is unacceptably misleading.
Suggestion of the most likely solution: (Not calling it a proposal, because this isn't the place to resolve it, I'm just tossing the idea out for consideration in the interim.) The simplest way out of and forever away from this sort of dispute is the one already used at
Long-haired domestic cat and various other articles on what are provable landraces not systematic breeds, but which some sources (e.g. show/competition organizations, or conservation groups, or just "X Breeds of the World" books) treat as if it were a breed or even stick a "breed" label on it for their own internal purposes. The general formula is something like this: The Cthulhonian foobeast is a
landrace of foobeast found around the Arkham, Massachusetts area. ... While not a formal
breed, the North American Foo Conservancy and the World Foobeast Association both include it in their lists of foobeast breeds (defined more broadly), and capitalize it as Cthulhonian Foobeast.
Features none of the following:
This approach has been stable for several years at various cat and dog landrace articles. It can also be applied to the rare case of broad domestic type being, here and there, labeled a "breed" in some imprecise sources (where they are otherwise reliable enough that we don't want to just discard them).
A similar information presentation strategy works well when a single article covers both a landrace and a breed with the same name (the number of such articles is going to increase sharply the better-researched these articles become, because quite a large number of modern breeds are derived from same-named landraces. That they're not identical is obvious, e.g. by looking at a modern Siamese cat and what that breed originally looked like when developed from the landrace 4 or so human generations ago. Anyway, such a case might look something like this: The Cthulhonian Foobeast is a
breed of foobeast native to the Arkham, Massachusetts area. ... The formal breed was developed in the 1990s from a local
landrace of the same name (usually written Cthulhonian foobeast, without the capitalization), which remains extant with the breed. Miskatonic University maintains a free-breeding herd of landrace Chtulhonian foobeasts, and
feral populations still live in nearby woodlands.
Easy-peasy. —
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼
06:06, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20060513021243/http://www.equinekingdom.com/breeds/light_horses/banker.htm. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 21:50, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Banker horse -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 18:38, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
All are around 13 hands (and near same weight from the article). I've heard the name Chincoteague for years..Never a "Banker". 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:14, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
<Ooops> Sorry. I guess they are different. One is Virginia other North Carolina - But both are on 'bank islands'of the Atlantic. Gotta be the same range though??? 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:20, 21 January 2016 (UTC) Different breeds indeed - The Ocracoke and Chincoteague Islands are far apart, roughly 300 miles - Just writing this because presumably there will be a million other fools like myself asking the same question. 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:29, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Well plot does indeed thicken below from website :: http://www.thecolorfulchincoteague.com/outcrosshistory.html "A study published in 1991 titled Genetic Variation and its Management Applications in Eastern U.S. Feral Horses took samples from 60% of the Virginia herd in April 1987. The study found a close genetic resemblance between the ponies and two breeds primarily, the Paso Fino and the Shetland. A genetic resemblance was also found to the feral island herds of Cumberland Island and Ocracoke Island. The study found a higher level of genetic diversity in the herd compared to the other feral Atlantic herds which was possibly "the result of repeated introductions of horses to the island from a variety of sources."
So both the Banker Horse and Chincoteague/Assateague have Paso Fino - However I can find no mention of a Genetic Marker for the Chincoteague. Alas there is much more prior mismanagement of the Chincoteague/Assateague bloodlines. and from the Equus Survival Trust and Livestock Conservation webpages it reads like the effort is to preserve a quality line of the Banker Horse. 80.5.219.60 ( talk) 05:52, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:30, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:37, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
"Bankers" is also a term once used for human residents of parts of the Outer Banks. The term is used in that context less commonly nowadays because Portsmouth Island, Core Banks, Cape Lookout and Shackleford Banks are no longer populated. The Banker families who lived there for generations gradually moved to "Promise Land" in Morehead City, Beaufort, Harker's Island or the many fishing villages (like Bettie, Otway, Smyrna, Marshallberg, Straits, Gloucester, Williston, Davis, Atlantic, Sea Level, and Cedar Island) on the mainland shore of Core Sound, 2 to 4 miles across the Sound from Core Banks. [1] 107.12.220.49 ( talk) 16:46, 6 August 2023 (UTC)