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After some discussion on another page, some checking shows that Changbai is more common of a name than Baekdu. Search on Britannica shows gives this link on searching for Changbai www.britannica.com/eb/article-9022423/Chang-pai-Mountains, but searches for Baekdu yield nothing. www.britannica.com/search?query=Baekdu&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 Searches on Encyclopeida Encarta give these hits for Changbai [1], but no hits for Baekdu [2]. Searches on Columbia Encyclopedia give the follwing articles on Changbai [3], but searches for Baekdu turn up nothing. [4]
-- Yuje 21:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm against this. First, Baekdusan is usually written "Paekdusan" so your searches should have no results. Also, most of your searches should result in the Mountain Ranges, not the mountain itself. i have done similiar searches, and there's hardly any hits of the "Changbaishan" for the mountain itself, without any connection to the mountain range.
Also, since when did the Han Chinese have Baekdusan under their control? It was only after PRC got the whole of Manchuria. Han Nationalists will argue that they had Manchuria during the Han and Tang age, but the poblem is that both dynasties never went that far east.
Yuje, I have to say that I'm pretty tired of you Han nationalist views. Please leave Korean things alone. -- General Tiger 03:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Koree things? Like Chinese characters, Confucius, Dragon Boat festival, Japan, China, Mongolia, Siberia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.214.116.173 ( talk • contribs) 12:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC).
My google searches
changbaishan: 49,900 [13] (but we need to take out the Changbaishan hotel, 9,920 hits [14], the mountain range [15], and other such unrelated hits, so I did another search below)
changbaishan korea: 14,000 [16]
paektusan: 11,600 [17]
paekdusan: 2,260 [18]
baekdusan: 11,300 [19]
Baitou Mountain: 3,180 [20]
If we look at the above searches, it seems that the two versions are similar. therefore, we have a bit of a deadlock.
However, I advocate the Baekdusan variates since
1) Even the Chinese sometimes uses the Korean style of White-headed Mountain (which, according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), should give Baekdusan variates a hand)
2) We already have the Changbai Mountains Ranges
3) The highest peak of the mountain is in North Korea, which is on the southern side of Cheonji.
Therefore, we should include the name Changbaishan in the article itself, but put the title as Baekdusan or the such.
-- General Tiger 06:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I get about 35,000 hits for the various Korean romanizations and about 44,500 hits for Changbai / Changbaishan ... That is a difference, but I'm not sure if it's a terribly significant one. (Further, adding "hotel" as a negative parameter brings to total for Changbai/Changbaishan down to 38,300). If I have missed a common Chinese spelling, please correct me. Given these results, and given the above-mentioned ambiguity between Changbai Mountain and the Changbai Mountains, it seems to me that Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision) is more relevant than Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). To my knowledge, the Korean name is unambiguous, and is therefore preferable. -- Visviva 06:56, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.110.227.162 ( talk) 20:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC).
"our primary consideration should be English usage, not Chinese or Korean usage." The we should use "white headed mountain" if that is what you truly mean. "Changbaishan" is definitely Chinese, it doesn't make sense that you want to move this page.
Like I commented at the Chonji talk page, why do you make it so hard here? Why the hassle? We don't need to move the page. Its perfectly fine the way it is, there are no controversies (save the one you began), and this article does not a have a problem. Good friend100 01:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Good friend100 14:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, you cannot ignore the search results General Tiger has produced. It is also important to point out that "Baekdusan" can be spelled out or named in several different names, considering how a book or internet site spells it. Good friend100 14:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
First you should know that Paektusan, Paekdusan, Baekdusan, etc mean all the same thing. The tallest mountain in Korea.
Of course you would get 144,000 hits since "Changbai" can mean almost anything since you left out "shan" (which means mountain, right?). This "tactic" that I use does not apply to Changbaishan because "Changbai" technically does not mean the mountain anymore. Baekdu Mountain simply has several ways to spell it in English. Good friend100 21:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
This page name should be CHANGBAI. right now the Korea nationlism have pose a grave threat to all neighboring countries. This should to sounding alarm to everyone. and has to be watched closed. korean nationlism is troublesome, and potentially very dangerous, more dangerous than Kim the second's nuke.
Its not possible for a war between Taiwan and the PRC? Do you know what Communist countries want? They want a communist spread around the world. The PRC has repeatedly threatened to attack Taiwan by force even though the U.S has passed the
Taiwan Relations Act to defend Taiwan's democracy from communism. Communism doesn't work, and in the end, it will bring any country to rubble.
China plays so cheep in the international market and politics. They threaten to cut any ties with a country if that country recognizes Taiwan. Thats what happened to Korea. We had to cut our relations with Taiwan to trade with China and left the Taiwanese ambassadors crying out of the Korean embassy. How sad. I feel sorry for the Taiwanese.
Betcha didn't know Chinese soldiers raped and pillaged Koreans when the came to help the Korean army. Good friend100 16:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm anti North Korea. It is easy to tell the difference between North and South Korea. South Korea does not shoot refugees fleeing north or commit crimes. The communist government of North Korea has problems not South Korea.
I'm going to suggest that Korea (north or south) and China have both done bad things in the past and also say that no country is ever perfect and has its own bad markings in its gradebook. Let's just leave it that both Korea and China have made good and bad decisions in the past. Good friend100 00:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Good friend100, you cannot use Cold War-era red scare MacCarthyism to critisize a country. You seem to have a stigma against socialist countries. The ROC (Taiwan) claims Paektu/Changbai as well. You are an excellent specimen of nationalism gone wrong.
If you want to critisize "socialism", critisize your northern bretheren too. Oh, and don't call us communists. There is a difference between communism and socialism - socialism is the 2nd stage in Marxist theory; Communism is the 3rd stage, where everything in stores are free (i.e. utopia), which didn't seem to work. To this date, there is no such country as a communist country. Benlisquare ( talk) 11:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Could we move this article to "Baekdusan"? The Wikipedia naming conventions for Korean states that all mountains should have a "san" after the mountain's name. Most other Korean articles on Korean mountains are named using this, and I agree that the article must be moved. Good friend100 19:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Just a suggestion, no need to start throwing supporting facts. If Baekdu Mountain is good enough, then its perfectly fine. Good friend100 01:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
It is true, though. -- DandanxD 12:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
THIS ARTICLE SHOULD BE CALLED BAEKDU MOUNTAIN OR BAEK DOO SAN. CHINESE NAME CHANGBAI SAN OR MOUNTAIN SHOULD BE LEFT OUT COMPLETELY. WHEN DID PEOPLE START CALLING BAEK DOO SAN OR BAEK DU MOUNTAIN CHINESE NAME CHANGBAI SAN????? PROBABLY RECENTLY. THIS ARTICLE BELONGS TO KOREA. ARTICLE SHOULD BE WRITTEN BAEKDU MOUNTAIN OR BAEKDUSAN. NO EXCEPTIONAL WORD LIKE CHANGBAI SAN OR MOUNTAIN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreaBaekDooSan ( talk • contribs) 06:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Could anybody tell me why a place in China should name in Korean? And this place is usually called as "Baitoushan" in English. -- Macorien 06:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Is "Changbai Mountain" common in English?-- Dunyi Loving the Lotus◈ (my Shack) 12:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Baitoushan is the Chinese pronounciation of the Korean Baekdusan(백두산/白頭山). Why would anyone use the Chinese pronounciation for a Korean mountain?! And as for the "Changbai Mountain" thing, no one (except China) uses that title to name Korea's Baekdu Mountain- if you want more info, refer to early posts regarding this issue. -- DandanxD 12:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, Yuje's links are about the Changbai Mountains, the mountain range. For this specific mountain, Encarta uses Paektu (variant spelling of Baekdu): [37] Columbia uses both Paektu [38] and Baitou (not Changbai) and Britannica uses Paektu www.britannica.com/search?query=Paektu&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 Etimesoy 18:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As pointed out by Kusunose's list above, this article should probably be renamed Mount Paektu. Paektu is the North Korean and most common English spelling. Baekdu is the South Korean spelling and Baitou is the Chinese spelling. Changbai is the English spelling for the mountain range, not the subject of this article. Etimesoy 18:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 22:58, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Baekdu Mountain → Changbai Mountain —
The article claims “Beakdu Mountain” to be the common name, but google:"Changbai Mountain" -Wikipedia -"Changbai Mountains" gets 286,000, while google:"Baekdu Mountain" -Wikipedia -"Changbai Mountains" gets 35,900. Why is “Beakdu Mountain” the common name? –– 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 12:59, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
–– 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 13:02, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I recently gave the article a once-over (Apr 2023), but there’s still a lot of work left.
I put request for updated info on upcoming eruption research.
Also the grammar in the geology and history sections is still spotty.
finally article is also currently a bit repetitive.
thanks to anyone that can help address these issues Toobigtokale ( talk) 06:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Paektu Mountain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Archives ( Index) |
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
After some discussion on another page, some checking shows that Changbai is more common of a name than Baekdu. Search on Britannica shows gives this link on searching for Changbai www.britannica.com/eb/article-9022423/Chang-pai-Mountains, but searches for Baekdu yield nothing. www.britannica.com/search?query=Baekdu&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 Searches on Encyclopeida Encarta give these hits for Changbai [1], but no hits for Baekdu [2]. Searches on Columbia Encyclopedia give the follwing articles on Changbai [3], but searches for Baekdu turn up nothing. [4]
-- Yuje 21:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm against this. First, Baekdusan is usually written "Paekdusan" so your searches should have no results. Also, most of your searches should result in the Mountain Ranges, not the mountain itself. i have done similiar searches, and there's hardly any hits of the "Changbaishan" for the mountain itself, without any connection to the mountain range.
Also, since when did the Han Chinese have Baekdusan under their control? It was only after PRC got the whole of Manchuria. Han Nationalists will argue that they had Manchuria during the Han and Tang age, but the poblem is that both dynasties never went that far east.
Yuje, I have to say that I'm pretty tired of you Han nationalist views. Please leave Korean things alone. -- General Tiger 03:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Koree things? Like Chinese characters, Confucius, Dragon Boat festival, Japan, China, Mongolia, Siberia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.214.116.173 ( talk • contribs) 12:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC).
My google searches
changbaishan: 49,900 [13] (but we need to take out the Changbaishan hotel, 9,920 hits [14], the mountain range [15], and other such unrelated hits, so I did another search below)
changbaishan korea: 14,000 [16]
paektusan: 11,600 [17]
paekdusan: 2,260 [18]
baekdusan: 11,300 [19]
Baitou Mountain: 3,180 [20]
If we look at the above searches, it seems that the two versions are similar. therefore, we have a bit of a deadlock.
However, I advocate the Baekdusan variates since
1) Even the Chinese sometimes uses the Korean style of White-headed Mountain (which, according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), should give Baekdusan variates a hand)
2) We already have the Changbai Mountains Ranges
3) The highest peak of the mountain is in North Korea, which is on the southern side of Cheonji.
Therefore, we should include the name Changbaishan in the article itself, but put the title as Baekdusan or the such.
-- General Tiger 06:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I get about 35,000 hits for the various Korean romanizations and about 44,500 hits for Changbai / Changbaishan ... That is a difference, but I'm not sure if it's a terribly significant one. (Further, adding "hotel" as a negative parameter brings to total for Changbai/Changbaishan down to 38,300). If I have missed a common Chinese spelling, please correct me. Given these results, and given the above-mentioned ambiguity between Changbai Mountain and the Changbai Mountains, it seems to me that Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision) is more relevant than Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). To my knowledge, the Korean name is unambiguous, and is therefore preferable. -- Visviva 06:56, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.110.227.162 ( talk) 20:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC).
"our primary consideration should be English usage, not Chinese or Korean usage." The we should use "white headed mountain" if that is what you truly mean. "Changbaishan" is definitely Chinese, it doesn't make sense that you want to move this page.
Like I commented at the Chonji talk page, why do you make it so hard here? Why the hassle? We don't need to move the page. Its perfectly fine the way it is, there are no controversies (save the one you began), and this article does not a have a problem. Good friend100 01:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Good friend100 14:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, you cannot ignore the search results General Tiger has produced. It is also important to point out that "Baekdusan" can be spelled out or named in several different names, considering how a book or internet site spells it. Good friend100 14:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
First you should know that Paektusan, Paekdusan, Baekdusan, etc mean all the same thing. The tallest mountain in Korea.
Of course you would get 144,000 hits since "Changbai" can mean almost anything since you left out "shan" (which means mountain, right?). This "tactic" that I use does not apply to Changbaishan because "Changbai" technically does not mean the mountain anymore. Baekdu Mountain simply has several ways to spell it in English. Good friend100 21:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
This page name should be CHANGBAI. right now the Korea nationlism have pose a grave threat to all neighboring countries. This should to sounding alarm to everyone. and has to be watched closed. korean nationlism is troublesome, and potentially very dangerous, more dangerous than Kim the second's nuke.
Its not possible for a war between Taiwan and the PRC? Do you know what Communist countries want? They want a communist spread around the world. The PRC has repeatedly threatened to attack Taiwan by force even though the U.S has passed the
Taiwan Relations Act to defend Taiwan's democracy from communism. Communism doesn't work, and in the end, it will bring any country to rubble.
China plays so cheep in the international market and politics. They threaten to cut any ties with a country if that country recognizes Taiwan. Thats what happened to Korea. We had to cut our relations with Taiwan to trade with China and left the Taiwanese ambassadors crying out of the Korean embassy. How sad. I feel sorry for the Taiwanese.
Betcha didn't know Chinese soldiers raped and pillaged Koreans when the came to help the Korean army. Good friend100 16:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm anti North Korea. It is easy to tell the difference between North and South Korea. South Korea does not shoot refugees fleeing north or commit crimes. The communist government of North Korea has problems not South Korea.
I'm going to suggest that Korea (north or south) and China have both done bad things in the past and also say that no country is ever perfect and has its own bad markings in its gradebook. Let's just leave it that both Korea and China have made good and bad decisions in the past. Good friend100 00:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Good friend100, you cannot use Cold War-era red scare MacCarthyism to critisize a country. You seem to have a stigma against socialist countries. The ROC (Taiwan) claims Paektu/Changbai as well. You are an excellent specimen of nationalism gone wrong.
If you want to critisize "socialism", critisize your northern bretheren too. Oh, and don't call us communists. There is a difference between communism and socialism - socialism is the 2nd stage in Marxist theory; Communism is the 3rd stage, where everything in stores are free (i.e. utopia), which didn't seem to work. To this date, there is no such country as a communist country. Benlisquare ( talk) 11:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Could we move this article to "Baekdusan"? The Wikipedia naming conventions for Korean states that all mountains should have a "san" after the mountain's name. Most other Korean articles on Korean mountains are named using this, and I agree that the article must be moved. Good friend100 19:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Just a suggestion, no need to start throwing supporting facts. If Baekdu Mountain is good enough, then its perfectly fine. Good friend100 01:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
It is true, though. -- DandanxD 12:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
THIS ARTICLE SHOULD BE CALLED BAEKDU MOUNTAIN OR BAEK DOO SAN. CHINESE NAME CHANGBAI SAN OR MOUNTAIN SHOULD BE LEFT OUT COMPLETELY. WHEN DID PEOPLE START CALLING BAEK DOO SAN OR BAEK DU MOUNTAIN CHINESE NAME CHANGBAI SAN????? PROBABLY RECENTLY. THIS ARTICLE BELONGS TO KOREA. ARTICLE SHOULD BE WRITTEN BAEKDU MOUNTAIN OR BAEKDUSAN. NO EXCEPTIONAL WORD LIKE CHANGBAI SAN OR MOUNTAIN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreaBaekDooSan ( talk • contribs) 06:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
Could anybody tell me why a place in China should name in Korean? And this place is usually called as "Baitoushan" in English. -- Macorien 06:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Is "Changbai Mountain" common in English?-- Dunyi Loving the Lotus◈ (my Shack) 12:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Baitoushan is the Chinese pronounciation of the Korean Baekdusan(백두산/白頭山). Why would anyone use the Chinese pronounciation for a Korean mountain?! And as for the "Changbai Mountain" thing, no one (except China) uses that title to name Korea's Baekdu Mountain- if you want more info, refer to early posts regarding this issue. -- DandanxD 12:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, Yuje's links are about the Changbai Mountains, the mountain range. For this specific mountain, Encarta uses Paektu (variant spelling of Baekdu): [37] Columbia uses both Paektu [38] and Baitou (not Changbai) and Britannica uses Paektu www.britannica.com/search?query=Paektu&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 Etimesoy 18:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As pointed out by Kusunose's list above, this article should probably be renamed Mount Paektu. Paektu is the North Korean and most common English spelling. Baekdu is the South Korean spelling and Baitou is the Chinese spelling. Changbai is the English spelling for the mountain range, not the subject of this article. Etimesoy 18:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 22:58, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Baekdu Mountain → Changbai Mountain —
The article claims “Beakdu Mountain” to be the common name, but google:"Changbai Mountain" -Wikipedia -"Changbai Mountains" gets 286,000, while google:"Baekdu Mountain" -Wikipedia -"Changbai Mountains" gets 35,900. Why is “Beakdu Mountain” the common name? –– 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 12:59, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
–– 虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 13:02, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I recently gave the article a once-over (Apr 2023), but there’s still a lot of work left.
I put request for updated info on upcoming eruption research.
Also the grammar in the geology and history sections is still spotty.
finally article is also currently a bit repetitive.
thanks to anyone that can help address these issues Toobigtokale ( talk) 06:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC)