![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Why is there no criticism section? This article is biased in favor of BDSM and without any criticism (with the exception being criticism from feminists). There is no mention that many of the people who practice BDSM were either sexually abused as children, and/or suffer from some form of mental illness. 2604:2000:FFC0:1F9:4BE:10F9:EAC4:E40D ( talk) 03:38, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
This article appears to contain large amounts of material presented without citations, some of which looks like original research, and some of which appears to present opinions without any attempt to meet the WP:NPOV criteria. It urgently needs thorough editing to meet Wikipedia's standards. -- The Anome ( talk) 20:08, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Dear editor, I would like to recommend my webpage as database about BDSM related mainstream media: www.bdsmculture.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.56.109.146 ( talk) 08:27, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
'This scene appears particularly on the Internet, in publications, and in meetings such as SM parties, gatherings called munches, and erotic fairs. The annual Folsom Street Fair is the world's largest BDSM event.[55] It has its roots in the gay leather movement. There are also conventions like Living in Leather, TESfest, Shibaricon, Spankfest, and Black Rose. North American cities that have large BDSM communities include New York City, Washington D.C., Baltimore, Atlanta, Seattle, Denver, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, San Diego, Dallas, Minneapolis, Toronto, Winnipeg, and Vancouver. European cities with large BDSM communities include London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Munich, Cologne, Hamburg, Moscow and Rome.'
So basically large Western cities/capitals? Novalia ( talk) 17:15, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Define "large" communities... all of these cities listed are large cities, so it would be expected there is a larger BDSM community. Portland, Oregon has a 1700 person event called Kinkfest annually, but is not listed. Is that "large"? I think the only way to quantify large would be a 'per-capita' basis which is not an easy statistic to find. This entire thing should have citations / qualification of large, or be replaced with a generic statement such as, "most large metropolitan areas have active BDSM communities". -- 76.115.173.153 ( talk) 03:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The 'control' aspect blue link is linked to the 'power and control in abusive relationships' page, which has no information on control as it applies to BDSM relationships. Having this link here comes across as disingenuous as it implies that all control aspects of BDSM relationships are abusive, when this is not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.114.41.195 ( talk) 22:41, 23 November 2014
The recent removals of unsourced (and sometimes even sourced) material left portions of the article very unbalanced. Instead of exploring the appropriate subtopic of BDSM, they left either one-sided information or no information at all in place of what had been moderately thorough coverage. Before any further removals or rewrites, I think we need to discuss some of these changes on the talk page. "Unsourced" does not mean "untrue". While I fully respect WP:UNSOURCED, I think talk page discussion would have been appropriate before these bulk removals were made. Much of the information is readily verifiable or common knowledge within the BDSM community. Online sources may be a bit more difficult to come by, however, due to the nature of the topic. – RobinHood70 talk 02:07, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
The previous discussion here seems to have been moved to the archives, but a new relevant link is http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/bdsm-versus-the-dsm/384138/ ... -- AnonMoos ( talk) 17:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Split the article, extract some things into subpages. Article is 140 KB in size ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=BDSM&action=info) and under WP:SIZESPLIT should be split. -- 194.85.161.2 ( talk) 15:15, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
194.85.161.2 -- When making such a proposal, it would be constructive to offer up a few proposed titles of new or existing articles to which subsections could be moved... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm of the opinion that there are enough images on this page, and while I have no beef with image insertion that shows an example of something not currently described or shown, I see no point in simply adding images that are already described or shown in perfectly acceptable fashion already on the page.
If you are of the opinion that your "Image is a better representation than other images currently in article" then that means that others can be removed instead - which I am not averse to either, but please indicate by discussion which images you think should be removed.
If your image is better than others, then that makes the other images either superfluous - or worse detrimental - to the article and I agree they should be replaced by yours. However, I'm not seeing that yet. Please discuss before reverting again, to be in line with the Bold, Revert, Discuss policy.
Thanks. Chaheel Riens ( talk) 07:19, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Actually I just wanted to improve the externals links with adding a link to a list of popular BDSM website ([http://www.iwantporn.net/best-bdsm-sites BDSM websites]), so people can immediately see what the internet offers in this genre.
Original website says to submit links here on the talk page instead - so what do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by UllyTrumay ( talk • contribs) 14:19, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
In this edit, an anonymous IP editor changed the figures quoted from an academic paper. Just in case this was a case of a drive-by IP putting wrong figures in, I checked the edit against the source, on page 13 of
and the IP appears to have put the correct values in, correcting the previous, wrong, numbers. I wonder how long this article has had the wrong figures in, before this IP editor corrected them. To that editor: thank you! -- The Anome ( talk) 18:58, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
BDSM. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I propose that
Sadomasochism be merged into
BDSM. Their current contents are essentially the same, all of the information on each is entirely relevant to the other, and the terms are used interchangeably among RS's, making them pretty much inseparable. (Although there are individual authors who prefer one term or the other, there is nothing near a consensus among RSs about what, if any, any differences exist between them beyond personal preference.) I suggest merging into
BDSM rather than merging into
Sadomasochism, because the term "sadomasochism" has been both used as a medical term (to indicate the
paraphilias "sexual sadism disorder" and "sexual masochism disorder") as well as a colloquial term for kink, whereas
BDSM has only been used in the context of kink, so would not be confused with the medical uses.
— James Cantor (
talk)
12:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Since a number of User:Armageddon Entropy's recent edits to this article have been reverted, and there doesn't seem to be any forward progress in this process, I've invited them to discuss any further changes here to achieve consensus. @ Armageddon Entropy: I look forward to seeing your contributions here. -- The Anome ( talk) 14:09, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm really, really sure of this.
Prior to 1980 (you can argue about the date) BDSM was:
Bondage/discipline sadism/masochism.
It was not:
Bondage/discipline Dominance/submission Sadism/masochism.
Somebody came up with this "improvement" much, much later. In linguistics this is called "folk etymology" or "popular etymology."
Prove me wrong by citing an example before that date.
Unfortunately, I can't prove a negative, that there wasn't an earlier example.
I changed this in the article but someone reverted it. Somebody else as old as me (68) must remember this too.
Now that I think about it, I don't think there was as much "dominance - submission" back there in any context. "Top - bottom" either. Funny. God, I'm getting old.
deisenbe ( talk) 16:57, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Fourth paragraph: The short discussion of the abbreviations for "dominant" in the introductory section seems to me misplaced and awkward. The statement that the pronunciations of "dom" and "domme" are identical conflicts with an alternative pronunciation of "domme" given at dominatrix. And if terminology related to "dominant" is to be given such prominence, doesn't the term "dominatrix" deserve similar prominence? The latter term appears several times in the article, all but once in the context of a profession. Brec ( talk) 15:52, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
BDSM. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:52, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
"Interest in BDSM can range from one-time experimentation to a lifestyle"
I see a few problems with this claim being in the introduction to this article, and I'm not quite sure why it hasn't been removed.
I plan to remove it, unless there's a good argument to keep it in the article. Coin Collecting John ( talk) 23:24, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Recently, we seem to have repeated visits from editors with an anti-BDSM point of view, with editing patterns which appear to have some elements in common. One of the more recent has been quoting the ICD-10 as support for their edits. I'd just like to quote the relevant passage from the WHO's own ICD-10 guidelines, which states:
This also makes for interesting reading:
-- The Anome ( talk) 23:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
In reply to the edits on the BDSM page. I am anti the propaganda and extreme bias on that page which is the opposite of what an encyclopedia should be. Clearly to resistance to merging sadomasochism and BDSM pages comes from people who want to keep denying it has a medical definition and a dictionary definition and that all of the practices described on the BDSM page = sadomasochism. The BDSM page is trying to turn a sexual disorder into some minority group with normal behavior that need to "come out". However someone with BDSM behaviors perceives it, the current medical view on it is as i is. I'ts ok to say people disagree with that on a wikipedia page, it is not ok or anything like truth to so distort it all that you deny that medical view even exists or applies to what you are talking about. Write a newspaper article that argues your biased point of view, or in some other forum that is about persuasive arguing for points of view, that's not what wikipedia is for. Your selected quote from the ICD "diagnostic"manual is an excellent example of bias. I have put the full ICD descriptions on the BDSM poage, no doubt someone will take it down soon. Being able to delete facts doesn't make them go away. Full ICD here: ICD-10 the actual ICD-10
F65 Disorders of sexual preference F65.5 Sadomasochism A preference for sexual activity which involves the infliction of pain or humiliation, or bondage. If the subject prefers to be the recipient of such stimulation this is called masochism; if the provider, sadism. Often an individual obtains sexual excitement from both sadistic and masochistic activities. [4] The clinical descriptions and diagnostic guidlines A preference for sexual activity that involves bondage or the infliction of pain or humiliation. If the individual prefers to be the recipient of such stimulation this is called masochism; if the provider, sadism. Often an individual obtains sexual excitement from both sadistic and masochistic activities. Mild degrees of sadomasochistic stimulation are commonly used to enhance otherwise normal sexual activity. This category should be used only if sadomasochistic activity is the most important source of stimulation or necessary for sexual gratification. Sexual sadism is sometimes difficult to distinguish from cruelty in sexual situations or anger unrelated to eroticism. Where violence is necessary for erotic arousal, the diagnosis can be clearly established. [5]
Another relevant point from the guidlines note "abnormal"
Erotic practices are too diverse and many too rare or idiosyncratic to justify a separate term for each. Swallowing urine, smearing faeces, or piercing foreskin or nipples may be part of the behavioural repertoire in sadomasochism. Masturbatory rituals of various kinds are common, but the more extreme practices, such as the insertion of objects into the rectum or penile urethra, or partial self-strangulation, when they take the place of ordinary sexual contacts, amount to abnormalities.[6]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by PropagandaSux ( talk • contribs) 17:58, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
So that I do not wander into edit warring, I am opening a discussion. An overview of the dispute:
My reasoning for undoing the reversion, even though it sat on the page for a month, is that is struck me as
violating neutral POV. (According to whom is it "abuse"? While those are technically accurate terms in the loose sense of "abuse", that is a loaded word, and it shouldn't be used lightly. Secondly, I do not think that because it was been on the page for a long time means that it was accepted. Content on the page may be challenged at any point, long-time editors of a page may not notice that there is a problematic edit, the page watchers may simply not notice that a potentially problematic edit was made at all. And, additionally, I can state the same reasoning, the edit made by Johjons94 has no edit summary and is an unexplained edit; additionally, the phrasing "a wide range of sensual impressions" has existing on the page since
July 10, 2013. As you've asked, why has Johjons94 deleted a phrasing that has existed on the article for three years and was accepted without problems? ~Cheers,
Ten
Ton
Parasol
23:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
I suspect that Enf6jv ( talk · contribs) may be yet another incarnation of the same editor we've been dealing with on previous issues. Perhaps time for a WP:SPI?
In particular, I'd be interested in the relationship, if any, between the following accounts:
-- The Anome ( talk) 10:29, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I've created an SPI here (whether I've done it right is another question.) Chaheel Riens ( talk) 13:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Recently added content also added a cite to this:
which looks like it might be useful for quite a lot of material in this article.
This is also amazingly interesting:
-- The Anome ( talk) 15:30, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
The article currently has this sentence: "In his Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality Sigmund Freud claimed that sadism and masochism stemmed from childhood abuse." I'm not sure he did, as I can't find any reference to this in the source material. In it, Freud certainly claims that sadism and masochism stem from disorder of infantile development, but I can't see any reference to abuse as a cause of this in the text. The nearest I can find is a reference to infants seeing adults having sex and interpreting this as a sadistic act, but this is not the claim made in the quote. Can anyone stand up this claim? If we can, we should quote the exact words Freud used, so people can find it in the text. If not, we should stop attributing this to Freud, and, unless we can find another source for this, we need to find another cite for the claim about abuse. -- The Anome ( talk) 08:37, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.rascals-club.com/rules.htmlWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:52, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
It looks like the BDSM vandal (or another similar WP:DUCK) is now making edits to redirects to this article, such as Bdsm and Bd sm, to point to other things. They appear to be IP-agile, currently across at least 14.78.16.0/23. I've tempblocked the range, and indef-protected the redirects. -- The Anome ( talk) 14:59, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
The network they are editing from seems to be a Korea Telecom block. I've made a start on semi-protecting all the redirects to this article, but there are quite a few. I've got down to Dungeon (BDSM) alphabetically, by now, but I have to get back to work. Would any other admins be willing to help finish the job? -- The Anome ( talk) 15:10, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
Now we have similar edits coming from a Spanish France Telecom range: 213.143.51.255 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS). Another duck? -- The Anome ( talk) 15:20, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
I've now requested help: see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Systematic_attack_on_redirects_to_BDSM -- The Anome ( talk) 15:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
I deleted the claim: As an example, Japan is listed as the country with the lowest sexual crime rate out of all the industrialized nations, despite being known for its distinct BDSM and bondage pornography (see Pornography in Japan).
[1]
Japan actually has a high rate of sexual crime, but most of it is unreported.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/12/29/voices/discussing-sex-crimes-japans-safety-myth/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fantasista11 ( talk • contribs) 23:11, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)
Sorry about that. Here is a more reliable source:
http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/Readings/Japan.html
Title: Cultural aspects of violence against women in Japan. Subject(s): VIOLENCE -- Social aspects -- Japan; WOMEN -- Crimes against -- Japan; VICTIMS of crimes -- Counseling of -- Japan; RAPE victims -- Japan Source: Lancet, 05/20/2000, Vol. 355 Issue 9217, p1810, 3/4p Author(s): Konishi, Takako
Here is a quote from it:
"The reporting rate is also low for rape. In women, the prevalence of "sexual intercourse against her will" has consistently been several percents for the past 5 or 6 years.[1-3] Our latest random sampling survey in Tokyo in 1998 showed that 8.5% of 459 women aged 20-59 had been raped at least once. By contrast, in the 1997 White Paper on Crime published by the Research and Training Institute of the Ministry of Justice of Japan, the number of reported rapes and attempted rapes was only 1657(1.3/100 000). The true prevalence of rape is not markedly lower than that of other countries, but the number of cases reported in official statistics is extremely low." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fantasista11 ( talk • contribs) 00:31, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Japan is listed as the country with the lowest sexual crime rate…, as it acknowledges that Japan's estimated true rate is around half that of the USA:
The percent of victimisation in the USA is thus only less than twice that in Japan, but the number of reported cases in the USA amounts to 30 times those in Japan.So, while Japan's actual rate may be significantly higher than other sources state, and it seems to have a major problem with unreported crime, I don't think that it tells us either way whether Japan is the lowest in actual crime rate. It seems to confirm that Japan's actual rate is still relatively low, but does not tell us how that relates to all industrialised nations. Even if Japan is not "the lowest rate", but still has a low rate in a global context, our existing claim still has relevance and may just need to say "a low rate" instead (with additional references provided). Remember that unreported sexual crime is a significant problem globally, so we need to be careful how we combine various sources, as other countries will also be underreporting to various levels. Murph9000 ( talk) 01:02, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000. Good point - unfortunately, due to under reporting and a different definition of rape it is hard to find good statistics on the actual rate of sexual assault in Japan. It does seem to be fairly commonplace, however. And there also seems to be a high level of sexual harassment, such as groping. I have posted a few examples. On a related note, the age of consent in Japan is 13, so there is no statutory rape for girls or boys 13 or older.
If you want to keep up the part I took down based on straight statistics, I guess it would be difficult to refute. However, Japan has been repeatedly slammed by NGOs and other governments for sexual trafficking, pedophilia, and other sexual crimes. I doubt the sexual violence is due to pornography, I am just not sure that Japan is a good example to put up as having "low sexual crime".
Edit: Cleaned up some of the infodump below. Sorry if I am not following proper protocal, I have only done a couple of edits to Wikipedia before. Anyway, Ill look around and see if I can find an exact statistic. I have done enough research to add to some other pages on Japanese crime I suppose!
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/15/national/revision-archaic-sex-crime-laws-falling-short-critics/ Revision of Japan’s archaic sex crime laws falling short: critics by Tomohiro Osaki Nov 15, 2015 Staff Writer, Japan Times −
http://womensenews.org/2016/01/japan-criticized-for-ignoring-child-sex-abuse-exploitation/Japan Criticized for Ignoring Child Sex Abuse, ExploitationBy: Catherine Makino January 19, 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/japan-women-sexually-harassed-at-work-report-finds - Nearly a third of Japan's women 'sexually harassed at work' Justin McCurry in Tokyo Wednesday 2 March 2016 09.52 GMT
− http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8254389.stm Tokyo police act on train gropers By Roland Buerk BBC News, Tokyo 14 September 2009 12:23 UK
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-rape-idUST17815620070515 Tue May 15, 2007 | 8:44am EDT Little sympathy for rape victims in Japan By Chisa Fujioka | TOKYO
http://www.ajwrc.org/english/sub/voice/21-1-2.pdf Sexual Violence in Japan: Challenging the Criminal Justice System Tomoe Yatagawa,lecturer in law and Mami Nakano, lawyer (Women's Asia 21 - Voices from Japan Oct. 2008)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/alternate-lifestyles-what-they-had-to-do-with-msn-chat.html{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.legislationline.org/download/action/download/id/4868/file/Austria_CC_as_of_04.11.2013_de.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:19, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
I've semiprotected this article following recent vandalism. I'd greatly appreciate it if editors watching this article could be particularly vigilant in scrutinizing any edits to this article in the near future. Thanks in advance. -- The Anome ( talk) 22:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
BDSM has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
183.240.17.13 ( talk) 03:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
And I have removed this. It's flat-out wrong. The term refered to BD and SM. Bringing in DS was a lot later. deisenbe ( talk) 21:43, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to see a section devoted to religious views here, too, such as is the case with the article on homosexuality.-- Bishop Morehouse ( talk) 21:38, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I just spotted these two good WP:RS references, which look suitable as sources for the article:
and the academic publications they report on:
and this meta-resource, from Brad Sagarin's research group, looks really promising:
-- The Anome ( talk) 14:10, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 March 21#Rough sex. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 05:10, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Under the glossary of BDSM, there are links to some aspects of dom/subspace and dom/sub drop. When I looked on this page, there is no mention of either, yet I do not know if there needs to be due to the fact that it is under the Wiki Glossary. Even in the glossary, there are no sources or references to related topics of space. In addition, there is another separate yet related site about BDSM related to Wiki. Would it be better to mention it on this page or link in the glossary, if anything? Fescandon ( talk) 21:13, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:33, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:26, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:32, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
Shouldn't full form of BDSM given in the first line of article be put in bold? If this isn't possible, then in the info-box given in the beginning of article on right hand side, the full form of BDSM can be put in bold. Like the word bondage be put in bold. Peoplesecurity ( talk) 16:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I have removed the section that basically states that there could be scenarios where a safeword is to be ignored. This is not the case in established BDSM culture.
Regardless of scenario - this is the very cornerstone of the safeword concept in that it negates consent and conveys a desire to cease further activities. The point being that anything happening after a safeword has been ignored is no longer part of the BDSM culture.
The original editor is possibly referring to "false" safewords - phrases that in common usage imply a desire to stop, but are not the actual safeword(s) agreed by the involved parties. Although I accept that my interpretation there is OR, it is no less so than the original comments which were in any case, unsourced. Chaheel Riens ( talk) 14:09, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Please refer to /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Vital_articles on how to do it. 182.68.12.114 ( talk) 10:51, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
I am adding some new materials from recent researches showing gender preferences for bdsm roles. i have mentioned the resources and links to the original web site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris adamant ( talk • contribs) 09:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:21, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
“The term "BDSM" is first recorded in a Usenet posting from 1991, and is interpreted as a combination of the abbreviations B/D (Bondage and Discipline), D/s (Dominance and submission), and S/M (Sadism and Masochism).”
Now “is interpreted” is pretty weasely (by whom?). But the point is that the ORIGINAL meaning, in use for decades, is only the first and the last. It was BD and SM. This should be said. DS was projected or plugged onto the acronym at a much later date. This is what linguists call “ popular etymology”. My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that this was around 2000 (so it seems to the young people to have always been that way).
Now this is all I’m going to say about it. It’s not worth any more of my time. My only goal is that the elite few who read talk page histories will know that I took my time to point out this error. deisenbe ( talk) 01:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
BDSM has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the equivalence of the top & bottom
So a top is not always a dominant and neither is a bottom always a sub. There are tops who are subs and 🔃 so it is not correct thanks for changing it :) 2A01:E0A:2AF:FC00:5DED:D453:7D2A:1E8D ( talk) 00:35, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
From this perspective, the Kama Sutra can be considered as one of the first written resources dealing with sadomasochistic activities and safety rules. Further texts with sadomasochistic connotation appear worldwide during the following centuries on a regular basis
}} Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 03:42, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
It is not of sadomasochism but for control eroticism ,affection and intimacy. Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 03:46, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
From this perspective, the Kama Sutra can be considered as one of the first written resources dealing with sadomasochistic activities and safety rules. Further texts with sadomasochistic connotation appear worldwide during the following centuries on a regular basis
This paragraph from bdsm history need to be edit that written sadomasochistic activities or passive masochism are describing in kamsutra but really they are described as for control eroticism,affection,intimacy. You can read kamsutra pdf and understand. Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 03:51, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
From this perspective, the Kama Sutra can be considered as one of the first written resources dealing with hitting and biting for control eroticism affection and intimacy. Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 04:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a
reliable source if appropriate. This is just gibberish. You need to show sources to back up your unclear motive. I have also removed the duplicate requests you made.
Curved Space (
talk)
10:00, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Should I be cleaning up broken links? This book doesn't even have an article in German Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vagabond219 ( talk • contribs) 01:04, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Top and bottom in sex and BDSM. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 25#Top and bottom in sex and BDSM until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. —
AFreshStart (
talk)
20:50, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
BDSM has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove the paragraphs:
It is necessary to be able to identify each person's psychological "squicks" or triggers in advance to avoid them. Such losses of emotional balance due to sensory or emotional overload are a fairly commonly discussed issue. It is important to follow participants' reactions empathetically and continue or stop accordingly. For some players, sparking "freakouts" or deliberately using triggers may be the desired outcome. Safewords are one way for BDSM practices to protect both parties. However, partners should be aware of each other's psychological states and behaviors to prevent instances where the "freakouts" prevent the use of safewords.
After any BDSM activities, it is important that the participants go through sexual aftercare, to process and calm down from the activity. After the sessions, participants can need aftercare because their bodies have experienced trauma and they need to mentally come out of the role play.
Wikipedia does not give advice. 217.42.40.30 ( talk) 21:05, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Why is there no criticism section? This article is biased in favor of BDSM and without any criticism (with the exception being criticism from feminists). There is no mention that many of the people who practice BDSM were either sexually abused as children, and/or suffer from some form of mental illness. 2604:2000:FFC0:1F9:4BE:10F9:EAC4:E40D ( talk) 03:38, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
This article appears to contain large amounts of material presented without citations, some of which looks like original research, and some of which appears to present opinions without any attempt to meet the WP:NPOV criteria. It urgently needs thorough editing to meet Wikipedia's standards. -- The Anome ( talk) 20:08, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Dear editor, I would like to recommend my webpage as database about BDSM related mainstream media: www.bdsmculture.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.56.109.146 ( talk) 08:27, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
'This scene appears particularly on the Internet, in publications, and in meetings such as SM parties, gatherings called munches, and erotic fairs. The annual Folsom Street Fair is the world's largest BDSM event.[55] It has its roots in the gay leather movement. There are also conventions like Living in Leather, TESfest, Shibaricon, Spankfest, and Black Rose. North American cities that have large BDSM communities include New York City, Washington D.C., Baltimore, Atlanta, Seattle, Denver, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, San Diego, Dallas, Minneapolis, Toronto, Winnipeg, and Vancouver. European cities with large BDSM communities include London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Munich, Cologne, Hamburg, Moscow and Rome.'
So basically large Western cities/capitals? Novalia ( talk) 17:15, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Define "large" communities... all of these cities listed are large cities, so it would be expected there is a larger BDSM community. Portland, Oregon has a 1700 person event called Kinkfest annually, but is not listed. Is that "large"? I think the only way to quantify large would be a 'per-capita' basis which is not an easy statistic to find. This entire thing should have citations / qualification of large, or be replaced with a generic statement such as, "most large metropolitan areas have active BDSM communities". -- 76.115.173.153 ( talk) 03:47, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
The 'control' aspect blue link is linked to the 'power and control in abusive relationships' page, which has no information on control as it applies to BDSM relationships. Having this link here comes across as disingenuous as it implies that all control aspects of BDSM relationships are abusive, when this is not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.114.41.195 ( talk) 22:41, 23 November 2014
The recent removals of unsourced (and sometimes even sourced) material left portions of the article very unbalanced. Instead of exploring the appropriate subtopic of BDSM, they left either one-sided information or no information at all in place of what had been moderately thorough coverage. Before any further removals or rewrites, I think we need to discuss some of these changes on the talk page. "Unsourced" does not mean "untrue". While I fully respect WP:UNSOURCED, I think talk page discussion would have been appropriate before these bulk removals were made. Much of the information is readily verifiable or common knowledge within the BDSM community. Online sources may be a bit more difficult to come by, however, due to the nature of the topic. – RobinHood70 talk 02:07, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
The previous discussion here seems to have been moved to the archives, but a new relevant link is http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/bdsm-versus-the-dsm/384138/ ... -- AnonMoos ( talk) 17:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
Split the article, extract some things into subpages. Article is 140 KB in size ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=BDSM&action=info) and under WP:SIZESPLIT should be split. -- 194.85.161.2 ( talk) 15:15, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
194.85.161.2 -- When making such a proposal, it would be constructive to offer up a few proposed titles of new or existing articles to which subsections could be moved... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm of the opinion that there are enough images on this page, and while I have no beef with image insertion that shows an example of something not currently described or shown, I see no point in simply adding images that are already described or shown in perfectly acceptable fashion already on the page.
If you are of the opinion that your "Image is a better representation than other images currently in article" then that means that others can be removed instead - which I am not averse to either, but please indicate by discussion which images you think should be removed.
If your image is better than others, then that makes the other images either superfluous - or worse detrimental - to the article and I agree they should be replaced by yours. However, I'm not seeing that yet. Please discuss before reverting again, to be in line with the Bold, Revert, Discuss policy.
Thanks. Chaheel Riens ( talk) 07:19, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Actually I just wanted to improve the externals links with adding a link to a list of popular BDSM website ([http://www.iwantporn.net/best-bdsm-sites BDSM websites]), so people can immediately see what the internet offers in this genre.
Original website says to submit links here on the talk page instead - so what do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by UllyTrumay ( talk • contribs) 14:19, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
In this edit, an anonymous IP editor changed the figures quoted from an academic paper. Just in case this was a case of a drive-by IP putting wrong figures in, I checked the edit against the source, on page 13 of
and the IP appears to have put the correct values in, correcting the previous, wrong, numbers. I wonder how long this article has had the wrong figures in, before this IP editor corrected them. To that editor: thank you! -- The Anome ( talk) 18:58, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
BDSM. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
I propose that
Sadomasochism be merged into
BDSM. Their current contents are essentially the same, all of the information on each is entirely relevant to the other, and the terms are used interchangeably among RS's, making them pretty much inseparable. (Although there are individual authors who prefer one term or the other, there is nothing near a consensus among RSs about what, if any, any differences exist between them beyond personal preference.) I suggest merging into
BDSM rather than merging into
Sadomasochism, because the term "sadomasochism" has been both used as a medical term (to indicate the
paraphilias "sexual sadism disorder" and "sexual masochism disorder") as well as a colloquial term for kink, whereas
BDSM has only been used in the context of kink, so would not be confused with the medical uses.
— James Cantor (
talk)
12:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
Since a number of User:Armageddon Entropy's recent edits to this article have been reverted, and there doesn't seem to be any forward progress in this process, I've invited them to discuss any further changes here to achieve consensus. @ Armageddon Entropy: I look forward to seeing your contributions here. -- The Anome ( talk) 14:09, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm really, really sure of this.
Prior to 1980 (you can argue about the date) BDSM was:
Bondage/discipline sadism/masochism.
It was not:
Bondage/discipline Dominance/submission Sadism/masochism.
Somebody came up with this "improvement" much, much later. In linguistics this is called "folk etymology" or "popular etymology."
Prove me wrong by citing an example before that date.
Unfortunately, I can't prove a negative, that there wasn't an earlier example.
I changed this in the article but someone reverted it. Somebody else as old as me (68) must remember this too.
Now that I think about it, I don't think there was as much "dominance - submission" back there in any context. "Top - bottom" either. Funny. God, I'm getting old.
deisenbe ( talk) 16:57, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Fourth paragraph: The short discussion of the abbreviations for "dominant" in the introductory section seems to me misplaced and awkward. The statement that the pronunciations of "dom" and "domme" are identical conflicts with an alternative pronunciation of "domme" given at dominatrix. And if terminology related to "dominant" is to be given such prominence, doesn't the term "dominatrix" deserve similar prominence? The latter term appears several times in the article, all but once in the context of a profession. Brec ( talk) 15:52, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
BDSM. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:52, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
"Interest in BDSM can range from one-time experimentation to a lifestyle"
I see a few problems with this claim being in the introduction to this article, and I'm not quite sure why it hasn't been removed.
I plan to remove it, unless there's a good argument to keep it in the article. Coin Collecting John ( talk) 23:24, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Recently, we seem to have repeated visits from editors with an anti-BDSM point of view, with editing patterns which appear to have some elements in common. One of the more recent has been quoting the ICD-10 as support for their edits. I'd just like to quote the relevant passage from the WHO's own ICD-10 guidelines, which states:
This also makes for interesting reading:
-- The Anome ( talk) 23:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
In reply to the edits on the BDSM page. I am anti the propaganda and extreme bias on that page which is the opposite of what an encyclopedia should be. Clearly to resistance to merging sadomasochism and BDSM pages comes from people who want to keep denying it has a medical definition and a dictionary definition and that all of the practices described on the BDSM page = sadomasochism. The BDSM page is trying to turn a sexual disorder into some minority group with normal behavior that need to "come out". However someone with BDSM behaviors perceives it, the current medical view on it is as i is. I'ts ok to say people disagree with that on a wikipedia page, it is not ok or anything like truth to so distort it all that you deny that medical view even exists or applies to what you are talking about. Write a newspaper article that argues your biased point of view, or in some other forum that is about persuasive arguing for points of view, that's not what wikipedia is for. Your selected quote from the ICD "diagnostic"manual is an excellent example of bias. I have put the full ICD descriptions on the BDSM poage, no doubt someone will take it down soon. Being able to delete facts doesn't make them go away. Full ICD here: ICD-10 the actual ICD-10
F65 Disorders of sexual preference F65.5 Sadomasochism A preference for sexual activity which involves the infliction of pain or humiliation, or bondage. If the subject prefers to be the recipient of such stimulation this is called masochism; if the provider, sadism. Often an individual obtains sexual excitement from both sadistic and masochistic activities. [4] The clinical descriptions and diagnostic guidlines A preference for sexual activity that involves bondage or the infliction of pain or humiliation. If the individual prefers to be the recipient of such stimulation this is called masochism; if the provider, sadism. Often an individual obtains sexual excitement from both sadistic and masochistic activities. Mild degrees of sadomasochistic stimulation are commonly used to enhance otherwise normal sexual activity. This category should be used only if sadomasochistic activity is the most important source of stimulation or necessary for sexual gratification. Sexual sadism is sometimes difficult to distinguish from cruelty in sexual situations or anger unrelated to eroticism. Where violence is necessary for erotic arousal, the diagnosis can be clearly established. [5]
Another relevant point from the guidlines note "abnormal"
Erotic practices are too diverse and many too rare or idiosyncratic to justify a separate term for each. Swallowing urine, smearing faeces, or piercing foreskin or nipples may be part of the behavioural repertoire in sadomasochism. Masturbatory rituals of various kinds are common, but the more extreme practices, such as the insertion of objects into the rectum or penile urethra, or partial self-strangulation, when they take the place of ordinary sexual contacts, amount to abnormalities.[6]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by PropagandaSux ( talk • contribs) 17:58, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
So that I do not wander into edit warring, I am opening a discussion. An overview of the dispute:
My reasoning for undoing the reversion, even though it sat on the page for a month, is that is struck me as
violating neutral POV. (According to whom is it "abuse"? While those are technically accurate terms in the loose sense of "abuse", that is a loaded word, and it shouldn't be used lightly. Secondly, I do not think that because it was been on the page for a long time means that it was accepted. Content on the page may be challenged at any point, long-time editors of a page may not notice that there is a problematic edit, the page watchers may simply not notice that a potentially problematic edit was made at all. And, additionally, I can state the same reasoning, the edit made by Johjons94 has no edit summary and is an unexplained edit; additionally, the phrasing "a wide range of sensual impressions" has existing on the page since
July 10, 2013. As you've asked, why has Johjons94 deleted a phrasing that has existed on the article for three years and was accepted without problems? ~Cheers,
Ten
Ton
Parasol
23:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
I suspect that Enf6jv ( talk · contribs) may be yet another incarnation of the same editor we've been dealing with on previous issues. Perhaps time for a WP:SPI?
In particular, I'd be interested in the relationship, if any, between the following accounts:
-- The Anome ( talk) 10:29, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I've created an SPI here (whether I've done it right is another question.) Chaheel Riens ( talk) 13:27, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Recently added content also added a cite to this:
which looks like it might be useful for quite a lot of material in this article.
This is also amazingly interesting:
-- The Anome ( talk) 15:30, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
The article currently has this sentence: "In his Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality Sigmund Freud claimed that sadism and masochism stemmed from childhood abuse." I'm not sure he did, as I can't find any reference to this in the source material. In it, Freud certainly claims that sadism and masochism stem from disorder of infantile development, but I can't see any reference to abuse as a cause of this in the text. The nearest I can find is a reference to infants seeing adults having sex and interpreting this as a sadistic act, but this is not the claim made in the quote. Can anyone stand up this claim? If we can, we should quote the exact words Freud used, so people can find it in the text. If not, we should stop attributing this to Freud, and, unless we can find another source for this, we need to find another cite for the claim about abuse. -- The Anome ( talk) 08:37, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.rascals-club.com/rules.htmlWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:52, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
It looks like the BDSM vandal (or another similar WP:DUCK) is now making edits to redirects to this article, such as Bdsm and Bd sm, to point to other things. They appear to be IP-agile, currently across at least 14.78.16.0/23. I've tempblocked the range, and indef-protected the redirects. -- The Anome ( talk) 14:59, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
The network they are editing from seems to be a Korea Telecom block. I've made a start on semi-protecting all the redirects to this article, but there are quite a few. I've got down to Dungeon (BDSM) alphabetically, by now, but I have to get back to work. Would any other admins be willing to help finish the job? -- The Anome ( talk) 15:10, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
Now we have similar edits coming from a Spanish France Telecom range: 213.143.51.255 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS). Another duck? -- The Anome ( talk) 15:20, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
I've now requested help: see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Systematic_attack_on_redirects_to_BDSM -- The Anome ( talk) 15:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
I deleted the claim: As an example, Japan is listed as the country with the lowest sexual crime rate out of all the industrialized nations, despite being known for its distinct BDSM and bondage pornography (see Pornography in Japan).
[1]
Japan actually has a high rate of sexual crime, but most of it is unreported.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/12/29/voices/discussing-sex-crimes-japans-safety-myth/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fantasista11 ( talk • contribs) 23:11, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)
Sorry about that. Here is a more reliable source:
http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/Readings/Japan.html
Title: Cultural aspects of violence against women in Japan. Subject(s): VIOLENCE -- Social aspects -- Japan; WOMEN -- Crimes against -- Japan; VICTIMS of crimes -- Counseling of -- Japan; RAPE victims -- Japan Source: Lancet, 05/20/2000, Vol. 355 Issue 9217, p1810, 3/4p Author(s): Konishi, Takako
Here is a quote from it:
"The reporting rate is also low for rape. In women, the prevalence of "sexual intercourse against her will" has consistently been several percents for the past 5 or 6 years.[1-3] Our latest random sampling survey in Tokyo in 1998 showed that 8.5% of 459 women aged 20-59 had been raped at least once. By contrast, in the 1997 White Paper on Crime published by the Research and Training Institute of the Ministry of Justice of Japan, the number of reported rapes and attempted rapes was only 1657(1.3/100 000). The true prevalence of rape is not markedly lower than that of other countries, but the number of cases reported in official statistics is extremely low." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fantasista11 ( talk • contribs) 00:31, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
Japan is listed as the country with the lowest sexual crime rate…, as it acknowledges that Japan's estimated true rate is around half that of the USA:
The percent of victimisation in the USA is thus only less than twice that in Japan, but the number of reported cases in the USA amounts to 30 times those in Japan.So, while Japan's actual rate may be significantly higher than other sources state, and it seems to have a major problem with unreported crime, I don't think that it tells us either way whether Japan is the lowest in actual crime rate. It seems to confirm that Japan's actual rate is still relatively low, but does not tell us how that relates to all industrialised nations. Even if Japan is not "the lowest rate", but still has a low rate in a global context, our existing claim still has relevance and may just need to say "a low rate" instead (with additional references provided). Remember that unreported sexual crime is a significant problem globally, so we need to be careful how we combine various sources, as other countries will also be underreporting to various levels. Murph9000 ( talk) 01:02, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
@Murph9000. Good point - unfortunately, due to under reporting and a different definition of rape it is hard to find good statistics on the actual rate of sexual assault in Japan. It does seem to be fairly commonplace, however. And there also seems to be a high level of sexual harassment, such as groping. I have posted a few examples. On a related note, the age of consent in Japan is 13, so there is no statutory rape for girls or boys 13 or older.
If you want to keep up the part I took down based on straight statistics, I guess it would be difficult to refute. However, Japan has been repeatedly slammed by NGOs and other governments for sexual trafficking, pedophilia, and other sexual crimes. I doubt the sexual violence is due to pornography, I am just not sure that Japan is a good example to put up as having "low sexual crime".
Edit: Cleaned up some of the infodump below. Sorry if I am not following proper protocal, I have only done a couple of edits to Wikipedia before. Anyway, Ill look around and see if I can find an exact statistic. I have done enough research to add to some other pages on Japanese crime I suppose!
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/15/national/revision-archaic-sex-crime-laws-falling-short-critics/ Revision of Japan’s archaic sex crime laws falling short: critics by Tomohiro Osaki Nov 15, 2015 Staff Writer, Japan Times −
http://womensenews.org/2016/01/japan-criticized-for-ignoring-child-sex-abuse-exploitation/Japan Criticized for Ignoring Child Sex Abuse, ExploitationBy: Catherine Makino January 19, 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/japan-women-sexually-harassed-at-work-report-finds - Nearly a third of Japan's women 'sexually harassed at work' Justin McCurry in Tokyo Wednesday 2 March 2016 09.52 GMT
− http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8254389.stm Tokyo police act on train gropers By Roland Buerk BBC News, Tokyo 14 September 2009 12:23 UK
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-rape-idUST17815620070515 Tue May 15, 2007 | 8:44am EDT Little sympathy for rape victims in Japan By Chisa Fujioka | TOKYO
http://www.ajwrc.org/english/sub/voice/21-1-2.pdf Sexual Violence in Japan: Challenging the Criminal Justice System Tomoe Yatagawa,lecturer in law and Mami Nakano, lawyer (Women's Asia 21 - Voices from Japan Oct. 2008)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/alternate-lifestyles-what-they-had-to-do-with-msn-chat.html{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.legislationline.org/download/action/download/id/4868/file/Austria_CC_as_of_04.11.2013_de.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:19, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
I've semiprotected this article following recent vandalism. I'd greatly appreciate it if editors watching this article could be particularly vigilant in scrutinizing any edits to this article in the near future. Thanks in advance. -- The Anome ( talk) 22:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
BDSM has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
183.240.17.13 ( talk) 03:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
And I have removed this. It's flat-out wrong. The term refered to BD and SM. Bringing in DS was a lot later. deisenbe ( talk) 21:43, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to see a section devoted to religious views here, too, such as is the case with the article on homosexuality.-- Bishop Morehouse ( talk) 21:38, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I just spotted these two good WP:RS references, which look suitable as sources for the article:
and the academic publications they report on:
and this meta-resource, from Brad Sagarin's research group, looks really promising:
-- The Anome ( talk) 14:10, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 March 21#Rough sex. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 05:10, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Under the glossary of BDSM, there are links to some aspects of dom/subspace and dom/sub drop. When I looked on this page, there is no mention of either, yet I do not know if there needs to be due to the fact that it is under the Wiki Glossary. Even in the glossary, there are no sources or references to related topics of space. In addition, there is another separate yet related site about BDSM related to Wiki. Would it be better to mention it on this page or link in the glossary, if anything? Fescandon ( talk) 21:13, 26 March 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:33, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:26, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:32, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
Shouldn't full form of BDSM given in the first line of article be put in bold? If this isn't possible, then in the info-box given in the beginning of article on right hand side, the full form of BDSM can be put in bold. Like the word bondage be put in bold. Peoplesecurity ( talk) 16:38, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on BDSM. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I have removed the section that basically states that there could be scenarios where a safeword is to be ignored. This is not the case in established BDSM culture.
Regardless of scenario - this is the very cornerstone of the safeword concept in that it negates consent and conveys a desire to cease further activities. The point being that anything happening after a safeword has been ignored is no longer part of the BDSM culture.
The original editor is possibly referring to "false" safewords - phrases that in common usage imply a desire to stop, but are not the actual safeword(s) agreed by the involved parties. Although I accept that my interpretation there is OR, it is no less so than the original comments which were in any case, unsourced. Chaheel Riens ( talk) 14:09, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Please refer to /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Vital_articles on how to do it. 182.68.12.114 ( talk) 10:51, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
I am adding some new materials from recent researches showing gender preferences for bdsm roles. i have mentioned the resources and links to the original web site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris adamant ( talk • contribs) 09:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:21, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
“The term "BDSM" is first recorded in a Usenet posting from 1991, and is interpreted as a combination of the abbreviations B/D (Bondage and Discipline), D/s (Dominance and submission), and S/M (Sadism and Masochism).”
Now “is interpreted” is pretty weasely (by whom?). But the point is that the ORIGINAL meaning, in use for decades, is only the first and the last. It was BD and SM. This should be said. DS was projected or plugged onto the acronym at a much later date. This is what linguists call “ popular etymology”. My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that this was around 2000 (so it seems to the young people to have always been that way).
Now this is all I’m going to say about it. It’s not worth any more of my time. My only goal is that the elite few who read talk page histories will know that I took my time to point out this error. deisenbe ( talk) 01:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:51, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
BDSM has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the equivalence of the top & bottom
So a top is not always a dominant and neither is a bottom always a sub. There are tops who are subs and 🔃 so it is not correct thanks for changing it :) 2A01:E0A:2AF:FC00:5DED:D453:7D2A:1E8D ( talk) 00:35, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
From this perspective, the Kama Sutra can be considered as one of the first written resources dealing with sadomasochistic activities and safety rules. Further texts with sadomasochistic connotation appear worldwide during the following centuries on a regular basis
}} Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 03:42, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
It is not of sadomasochism but for control eroticism ,affection and intimacy. Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 03:46, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
From this perspective, the Kama Sutra can be considered as one of the first written resources dealing with sadomasochistic activities and safety rules. Further texts with sadomasochistic connotation appear worldwide during the following centuries on a regular basis
This paragraph from bdsm history need to be edit that written sadomasochistic activities or passive masochism are describing in kamsutra but really they are described as for control eroticism,affection,intimacy. You can read kamsutra pdf and understand. Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 03:51, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
From this perspective, the Kama Sutra can be considered as one of the first written resources dealing with hitting and biting for control eroticism affection and intimacy. Rajesh000134679 ( talk) 04:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a
reliable source if appropriate. This is just gibberish. You need to show sources to back up your unclear motive. I have also removed the duplicate requests you made.
Curved Space (
talk)
10:00, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Should I be cleaning up broken links? This book doesn't even have an article in German Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vagabond219 ( talk • contribs) 01:04, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Top and bottom in sex and BDSM. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 25#Top and bottom in sex and BDSM until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. —
AFreshStart (
talk)
20:50, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
BDSM has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove the paragraphs:
It is necessary to be able to identify each person's psychological "squicks" or triggers in advance to avoid them. Such losses of emotional balance due to sensory or emotional overload are a fairly commonly discussed issue. It is important to follow participants' reactions empathetically and continue or stop accordingly. For some players, sparking "freakouts" or deliberately using triggers may be the desired outcome. Safewords are one way for BDSM practices to protect both parties. However, partners should be aware of each other's psychological states and behaviors to prevent instances where the "freakouts" prevent the use of safewords.
After any BDSM activities, it is important that the participants go through sexual aftercare, to process and calm down from the activity. After the sessions, participants can need aftercare because their bodies have experienced trauma and they need to mentally come out of the role play.
Wikipedia does not give advice. 217.42.40.30 ( talk) 21:05, 3 May 2022 (UTC)