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Articles contain some one-sided opinion and POV which should be removed. Historical context poorly written.-- Dacy69 13:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Dacy. It is irrelevant which country the territory of modern Azerbaijan belonged to. What matters is who lived there. India also belonged to Britain. So what? Does it mean the territory is historically Anglo-Saxon? I think the historical context must be rewritten and the reference to Iran must be removed. Batabat 19:13, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
This article is about Iran-Azerbaijan relations, not anything else Dacy69. Hajji Piruz 16:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I added some info on modern period and I believe two links in references are dead and should be removed. I put info on events which had implications for the relations. -- Dacy69 16:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I added couple more references on diplomatic and governmental exchanges between ADR and Qajar court. Atabek 16:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Atabek's newest addition really doesnt have anything to do with this article, as it belongs in the Iran-Armenia relations article, but whatever... Anyway, I took out the part about Nowruz, as that certainly has nothing to do with anything, and I put that Armenia and Azerbaijan are enemies at the end, so that it doesnt imply that the source is saying that. Hajji Piruz 00:03, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Alborz tries to link page to the image previously deleted in Wikipedia and now uploaded to personal images database. That is not reliable source.-- Dacy69 13:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Do you actually know the publication date of that book? -- Grandmaster 05:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
â | One of them was Abulfaz Aliyev (1938-2000). More familiarly known as Elchibey [and later to become Azerbaijan's President from 1992-1993], he taught history at Azerbaijan State University. He told his students that all Turkic peoples were brothers and that Russia had conquered Azerbaijan and divided it into two parts: the northern, which was joined to Russia, and the southern, which was joined to Iran. As a result, Elchibey was arrested in the 1970s and imprisoned for two years. After Azerbaijan gained its independence in 1991, Elchibey was able to actively promote changes in historical research. | â |
and considering that Bunyadov was also a nationalistic historian of the same university , and also the notoriousity of Professor Bunyadov in being so called "chauvinist" and "No one Enemy" of Armenia" ( the text ) , that may seen as acceptable to consider him a comrade of Elchibey ....-- Alborz Fallah 07:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I fixed up some things, such as rewording some sentences and taking out others that make no sense. This article is a mess, it should be organized better. Hajji Piruz 01:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
What does this sentence even mean: There were incidents involving of the use of force or its demonstration on the part of Iranian military forces.? Did Iranian military forces suppress demonstrations in Azerbaijan? Hajji Piruz 15:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, the incident in July 2001, when Iranian boat opened fire on BP research vessel in Azerbaijani waters, was followed by intrusion of Iranian planes onto Azerbaijani airspace. The aggressive action was properly warned by Russian diplomatic demarche and the show of Turkish F-16s in Baku, which clearly demonstrated the limitations of aggressive conduct for the Iranian side. These details are worth exploring and incorporating into the article. Atabek 18:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
As per Azerbaijan being part of "Greater Iran", I sourced that as the quote from Iranica at the bottom clearly says that the Caucasus had been party of the Iranian world. As per Iranian culture in Azerbaijan, thats pretty much self evident: Azerbaijan, Baku, Absheron, Zoroastrianism, Mihranids, etc... Hajji Piruz 15:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Greater Iran is not a literal term. Its a geographic term describing the extent of Iranian cultural civilization. Hajji Piruz 15:39, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Its from Frye's article. How is Iranica an Iranian source? Frye is certainly not Iranian. Hajji Piruz 04:25, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Kaveh Farrokh is one of the more respected historians in the study of Iranian history and linguistics. He even has heavy weights such as Richard Frye who endorse him.
Who is Brenda Shaffer? She is a historical revisionist who gets paid by governments, such as the Republic of Azerbaijan, to write things in favor of them. There are many who criticize here. She isnt even an expert.
Furthermore, Undue weight states:
We should not attempt to represent a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention as a majority view, and views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views. To give undue weight to a significant-minority view, or to include a tiny-minority view, might be misleading as to the shape of the dispute. Wikipedia aims to present competing views in proportion to their representation among experts on the subject, or among the concerned parties. This applies not only to article text, but to images, external links, categories, and all other material as well. [3]
The opinion that Azerbaijan extends over the Aras river, especially by historical sources, is undue weight, as it is a very very very tiny minority view. Hajji Piruz 16:26, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Pejman47, did you actually notice that you removed other references besides Brenda Shaffer in your last edit? Atabek 17:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I slightly reworded the paragraph in question. Caucasus has not always been part of Iran, it was also ruled by Seljuks, Mongols, Arabs, Russians, etc. Also I see no relevans of Islamic conquest there, clearly some of the mentioned dynasties were pre-Islamic and others Islamic. If you really think that it should be there you can add it back, but it just takes space and adds little in terms of info. Grandmaster 13:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
â Although the proclamation restricted its claim to the territory north of the Araxes, the use of the name Azerbaijan would soon bring objections from Iran. In Teheran, suspicions were aroused that the Republic of Azerbaijan served as an Ottoman device for detaching the Tabriz province from Iran. Likewise, the national revolutionary Jangali movement in Gilan, while welcoming the independence of every Muslim land as a "source of joy," asked in its newspaper if the choice of the name Azerbaijan implied the new republic's desire to join Iran. If so, they said, it should be stated clearly, otherwise Iranians would be opposed to calling that republic Azerbaijan. Consequently, to allay Iranian fears, the Azerbaijani government would accommodatingly use the term Caucasian Azerbaijan in its documents for circulation abroad." since the issue is covered in the history of the name of Azerbaijan article.. -- alidoostzadeh 02:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure why the reference to independence of Azerbaijan and first state whcih recognized it was removed from the article, but generally before removing article references the editor should discuss and bring reasons for removal. I don't know why does the reference of historical fact bother anyone at all to remove it. Atabek ( talk) 01:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't remember saying Atropates was a Greek, he only served as a satrap of Alexander, so I am not sure what you're referring to, not sure if you are sure of it either. So can you please, present the link to where I said so?
I readded the reference because the article talks about proclamation of independence by Azerbaijan and line of events leading to its international recognition. It's often claimed by some Iranians that Iran was first to recognize Azerbaijan, the statement which is factually false. So addition of the reference in this article is only sought to alleviate misinformation in a professional fashion. And this was not so important as to cause a revert or deliberate removal of reference, was it?
Anyways, per your comment above, if such factual references on Turkey, being the first recognizing, are added to Azerbaijan-USA and Azerbaijan-Israel relation articles, they don't seem to cause such a negative attitude and attempt to remove the referenced information. In fact, even Israel was ahead of Iran in recognizing Azerbaijan's independence on December 25, 1991. Atabek ( talk) 15:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Ali, in the link you provided above, I specifically said: "If he was a Median satrap of Alexander the Great, we should say so". I never said he was Greek, like you claimed mistakenly in your comment above. The issue actually also has no relevance to topic of this article, so I don't want to open another extensive thread on Atropates subject here. However, as a quick note, Medes can be claimed Iranian in racial/historical/political terms just as Uzbek and Azeri can be considered Turkic. So if you oppose the latter, I am not sure why you insist so much on former definition?
The purpose of Wikipedia is to provide neutral information for educational purposes, and information added was only sought to clarify all misconceptions. Both Turkey and Israel were ahead of Iran in recognizing Azerbaijan's independence. While this in no way should count against Iranian-Azerbaijani relations in any way, especially provided a fact of Azerbaijani Turkic brethren inhabiting both sides of Iranian-Azerbaijani border, it's nevertheless a fact that does not have to be purged out either. Happy Novruz to you again. Atabek ( talk) 15:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Happy Nevruz/Nawruz ŮŮŘąŮز (that is the good thing about this script, it is spelled one way no matter how you pronounce it) greeting to the good citizens of Iran and Azerbaijan. -- alidoostzadeh ( talk) 17:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC) Novruz bayrami mubarek! ŮŮŘąŮزتا٠ٞŰŘąŮز باد. -- alidoostzadeh ( talk) 17:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Ali Donât bother you self I know this atabayk guy, his real name is Javid Husseinof. And he is very pro-anti-Iranian. He is going around and spending a lot of his energy and his life to just make propaganda against Iranian. Then what ever he says is just base on satisfying his hatred ;) âPreceding
unsigned comment added by
66.74.93.120 (
talk)
08:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Babakexorramdin, posts in a blog are not an encyclopedic entry in the article. If you have facts, please, produce them in a manner citeable and appropriate for encyclopedia, else don't make claims. AtabÉy ( talk) 05:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking a photo of Presidents Ilham Aliyev and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are appropriate,and interesting.All articles need photos,just paragraphs and texts make it boring and bland.Any other suggestions would be fine.
Thanks ChowFan ChowFan ( talk) 23:36, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed the 5th grade book section. First of all, it doesnt belong in a "see also" headline. Second there is no objective source for it, mehrnews, is an Iranian newssite, the source is not even in English. Neftchi ( talk) 09:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is missing the cultural and economic relations between the two countries. We need more then just chronological political information. I suggest at least a culture and economy headline, there are many things both these countries and nations have in common. Neftchi ( talk) 23:00, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is fairly poorly written, because the relationship is much warmer than during the early decade. This is a positive trend that I hope it continues no matter what sort of regimes are in the region. -- Khodabandeh14 ( talk) 03:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
If we hype this up enough, we ought to be able to trigger an invasion. Do I have a second on the motion? Hcobb ( talk) 12:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
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"Iran and Azerbaijan are furthermore the only official Shia Muslim nations in the world where the vast majority of the people are Shia Muslims". What about Bahrain ? Is there something I don't get ? Elfast ( talk) 09:48, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
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Articles contain some one-sided opinion and POV which should be removed. Historical context poorly written.-- Dacy69 13:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Dacy. It is irrelevant which country the territory of modern Azerbaijan belonged to. What matters is who lived there. India also belonged to Britain. So what? Does it mean the territory is historically Anglo-Saxon? I think the historical context must be rewritten and the reference to Iran must be removed. Batabat 19:13, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
This article is about Iran-Azerbaijan relations, not anything else Dacy69. Hajji Piruz 16:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I added some info on modern period and I believe two links in references are dead and should be removed. I put info on events which had implications for the relations. -- Dacy69 16:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I added couple more references on diplomatic and governmental exchanges between ADR and Qajar court. Atabek 16:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Atabek's newest addition really doesnt have anything to do with this article, as it belongs in the Iran-Armenia relations article, but whatever... Anyway, I took out the part about Nowruz, as that certainly has nothing to do with anything, and I put that Armenia and Azerbaijan are enemies at the end, so that it doesnt imply that the source is saying that. Hajji Piruz 00:03, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Alborz tries to link page to the image previously deleted in Wikipedia and now uploaded to personal images database. That is not reliable source.-- Dacy69 13:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Do you actually know the publication date of that book? -- Grandmaster 05:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
â | One of them was Abulfaz Aliyev (1938-2000). More familiarly known as Elchibey [and later to become Azerbaijan's President from 1992-1993], he taught history at Azerbaijan State University. He told his students that all Turkic peoples were brothers and that Russia had conquered Azerbaijan and divided it into two parts: the northern, which was joined to Russia, and the southern, which was joined to Iran. As a result, Elchibey was arrested in the 1970s and imprisoned for two years. After Azerbaijan gained its independence in 1991, Elchibey was able to actively promote changes in historical research. | â |
and considering that Bunyadov was also a nationalistic historian of the same university , and also the notoriousity of Professor Bunyadov in being so called "chauvinist" and "No one Enemy" of Armenia" ( the text ) , that may seen as acceptable to consider him a comrade of Elchibey ....-- Alborz Fallah 07:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I fixed up some things, such as rewording some sentences and taking out others that make no sense. This article is a mess, it should be organized better. Hajji Piruz 01:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
What does this sentence even mean: There were incidents involving of the use of force or its demonstration on the part of Iranian military forces.? Did Iranian military forces suppress demonstrations in Azerbaijan? Hajji Piruz 15:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, the incident in July 2001, when Iranian boat opened fire on BP research vessel in Azerbaijani waters, was followed by intrusion of Iranian planes onto Azerbaijani airspace. The aggressive action was properly warned by Russian diplomatic demarche and the show of Turkish F-16s in Baku, which clearly demonstrated the limitations of aggressive conduct for the Iranian side. These details are worth exploring and incorporating into the article. Atabek 18:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
As per Azerbaijan being part of "Greater Iran", I sourced that as the quote from Iranica at the bottom clearly says that the Caucasus had been party of the Iranian world. As per Iranian culture in Azerbaijan, thats pretty much self evident: Azerbaijan, Baku, Absheron, Zoroastrianism, Mihranids, etc... Hajji Piruz 15:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Greater Iran is not a literal term. Its a geographic term describing the extent of Iranian cultural civilization. Hajji Piruz 15:39, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Its from Frye's article. How is Iranica an Iranian source? Frye is certainly not Iranian. Hajji Piruz 04:25, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Kaveh Farrokh is one of the more respected historians in the study of Iranian history and linguistics. He even has heavy weights such as Richard Frye who endorse him.
Who is Brenda Shaffer? She is a historical revisionist who gets paid by governments, such as the Republic of Azerbaijan, to write things in favor of them. There are many who criticize here. She isnt even an expert.
Furthermore, Undue weight states:
We should not attempt to represent a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention as a majority view, and views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views. To give undue weight to a significant-minority view, or to include a tiny-minority view, might be misleading as to the shape of the dispute. Wikipedia aims to present competing views in proportion to their representation among experts on the subject, or among the concerned parties. This applies not only to article text, but to images, external links, categories, and all other material as well. [3]
The opinion that Azerbaijan extends over the Aras river, especially by historical sources, is undue weight, as it is a very very very tiny minority view. Hajji Piruz 16:26, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Pejman47, did you actually notice that you removed other references besides Brenda Shaffer in your last edit? Atabek 17:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I slightly reworded the paragraph in question. Caucasus has not always been part of Iran, it was also ruled by Seljuks, Mongols, Arabs, Russians, etc. Also I see no relevans of Islamic conquest there, clearly some of the mentioned dynasties were pre-Islamic and others Islamic. If you really think that it should be there you can add it back, but it just takes space and adds little in terms of info. Grandmaster 13:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
â Although the proclamation restricted its claim to the territory north of the Araxes, the use of the name Azerbaijan would soon bring objections from Iran. In Teheran, suspicions were aroused that the Republic of Azerbaijan served as an Ottoman device for detaching the Tabriz province from Iran. Likewise, the national revolutionary Jangali movement in Gilan, while welcoming the independence of every Muslim land as a "source of joy," asked in its newspaper if the choice of the name Azerbaijan implied the new republic's desire to join Iran. If so, they said, it should be stated clearly, otherwise Iranians would be opposed to calling that republic Azerbaijan. Consequently, to allay Iranian fears, the Azerbaijani government would accommodatingly use the term Caucasian Azerbaijan in its documents for circulation abroad." since the issue is covered in the history of the name of Azerbaijan article.. -- alidoostzadeh 02:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure why the reference to independence of Azerbaijan and first state whcih recognized it was removed from the article, but generally before removing article references the editor should discuss and bring reasons for removal. I don't know why does the reference of historical fact bother anyone at all to remove it. Atabek ( talk) 01:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't remember saying Atropates was a Greek, he only served as a satrap of Alexander, so I am not sure what you're referring to, not sure if you are sure of it either. So can you please, present the link to where I said so?
I readded the reference because the article talks about proclamation of independence by Azerbaijan and line of events leading to its international recognition. It's often claimed by some Iranians that Iran was first to recognize Azerbaijan, the statement which is factually false. So addition of the reference in this article is only sought to alleviate misinformation in a professional fashion. And this was not so important as to cause a revert or deliberate removal of reference, was it?
Anyways, per your comment above, if such factual references on Turkey, being the first recognizing, are added to Azerbaijan-USA and Azerbaijan-Israel relation articles, they don't seem to cause such a negative attitude and attempt to remove the referenced information. In fact, even Israel was ahead of Iran in recognizing Azerbaijan's independence on December 25, 1991. Atabek ( talk) 15:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Ali, in the link you provided above, I specifically said: "If he was a Median satrap of Alexander the Great, we should say so". I never said he was Greek, like you claimed mistakenly in your comment above. The issue actually also has no relevance to topic of this article, so I don't want to open another extensive thread on Atropates subject here. However, as a quick note, Medes can be claimed Iranian in racial/historical/political terms just as Uzbek and Azeri can be considered Turkic. So if you oppose the latter, I am not sure why you insist so much on former definition?
The purpose of Wikipedia is to provide neutral information for educational purposes, and information added was only sought to clarify all misconceptions. Both Turkey and Israel were ahead of Iran in recognizing Azerbaijan's independence. While this in no way should count against Iranian-Azerbaijani relations in any way, especially provided a fact of Azerbaijani Turkic brethren inhabiting both sides of Iranian-Azerbaijani border, it's nevertheless a fact that does not have to be purged out either. Happy Novruz to you again. Atabek ( talk) 15:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Happy Nevruz/Nawruz ŮŮŘąŮز (that is the good thing about this script, it is spelled one way no matter how you pronounce it) greeting to the good citizens of Iran and Azerbaijan. -- alidoostzadeh ( talk) 17:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC) Novruz bayrami mubarek! ŮŮŘąŮزتا٠ٞŰŘąŮز باد. -- alidoostzadeh ( talk) 17:14, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Ali Donât bother you self I know this atabayk guy, his real name is Javid Husseinof. And he is very pro-anti-Iranian. He is going around and spending a lot of his energy and his life to just make propaganda against Iranian. Then what ever he says is just base on satisfying his hatred ;) âPreceding
unsigned comment added by
66.74.93.120 (
talk)
08:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Babakexorramdin, posts in a blog are not an encyclopedic entry in the article. If you have facts, please, produce them in a manner citeable and appropriate for encyclopedia, else don't make claims. AtabÉy ( talk) 05:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking a photo of Presidents Ilham Aliyev and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are appropriate,and interesting.All articles need photos,just paragraphs and texts make it boring and bland.Any other suggestions would be fine.
Thanks ChowFan ChowFan ( talk) 23:36, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed the 5th grade book section. First of all, it doesnt belong in a "see also" headline. Second there is no objective source for it, mehrnews, is an Iranian newssite, the source is not even in English. Neftchi ( talk) 09:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is missing the cultural and economic relations between the two countries. We need more then just chronological political information. I suggest at least a culture and economy headline, there are many things both these countries and nations have in common. Neftchi ( talk) 23:00, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is fairly poorly written, because the relationship is much warmer than during the early decade. This is a positive trend that I hope it continues no matter what sort of regimes are in the region. -- Khodabandeh14 ( talk) 03:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
If we hype this up enough, we ought to be able to trigger an invasion. Do I have a second on the motion? Hcobb ( talk) 12:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
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"Iran and Azerbaijan are furthermore the only official Shia Muslim nations in the world where the vast majority of the people are Shia Muslims". What about Bahrain ? Is there something I don't get ? Elfast ( talk) 09:48, 26 April 2018 (UTC)