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The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 17:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Aviation in the Port of New York and New Jersey → Aviation in the New York metropolitan area – A far better name. "Port of New York and New Jersey" refers to the body of water with seaports, and is unlikely to be used in reference to airports, especially when some of the airports referred to in the article are nowhere near that body of water. It would also bring this article in line with the main article on the metro area at New York metropolitan area and similar articles such as List of airports in the Los Angeles area. The current article was formed from a recent, AFD endorsed merger between Aviation in New York City and List of airports in the New York City area; at that AfD there was endorsement for the use of the term "New York metropolitan area".
I attempted to boldly move it, but was reverted by an inappropriate cut-and-paste move, meaning that regardless of the title of the article, administrator assistance is needed to repair the edit history, which is now messed up. oknazevad ( talk) 14:31, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
The Lehigh Valley International Airport merits inclusion due to its inclusion in the NYC Consolidated Statistical Area and draw from NW New Jersey. Heff01 ( talk) 01:55, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
MacArthur and Westchester are no more 'main airports' than LVI is and they serve eastern suburbs of NYC while LVI serves some western suburbs. LVI is on track to total almost a million passengers this year after a major slump just a few years ago. Allegiant Air markets its flights to/from the airport as serving eastern PA and northern NJ. When planes planning to land at one of the three major NYC metro airports must be diverted, LVI is a not-uncommon choice. While it is true that Lehigh, Northampton, and New Haven Counties traditionally were not thought of as part of NYC's metro region, people have migrated outwards and some continue to commute to jobs closer to or in NYC while living distantly. New Haven was added to the Combined SA in 2003 and the Lehigh Valley was added in 2013. Both airports merit inclusion and LVI does more so at this time. I see a real future for Tweed New Haven once the runway extension is done. Meanwhile, the Aviation in the Philadelphia metropolitan area page includes Reading and Atlantic City, both of which traditionally were not thought of as part of Philadelphia's metro region (only in its DMA). If CSA inclusion is sufficient for inclusion on that page, it should be for this one too. Heff01 ( talk) 09:26, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Also, this page is included in WikiProject Pennsylvania. In the 2010 census over seven percent of the state's population lived in the five counties currently in the CSA. LVI also draws from Warren and Hunterdon Counties. Heff01 ( talk) 11:17, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
This entire discussion runs into a many-fold problem. Firstly, that the combined statistical area as currently defined is very broad, and includes areas that historically have been considered either separate metro areas (like the Lehigh Valley) or part of another major city's metro area, like Trenton, which was also considered part of the Philly area. And that's the other aspect of the problem: in the northeast corridor, the end of one metro area and the beginning of another is fuzzy at best with lots of overlap. As noted, Warren and Hunterdon counties in New Jersey have ties to both NYC and the Lehigh Valley. When I worked in Hunterdon county I had colleagues who lived in both directions students whose one parent commuted to NYC and while the other worked in Allentown. Extreme (1.25 hour +) commuting became a thing for a bit there.
Drawing passengers shouldn't really be a guide, anyway, as people in those transitional areas will go to which ever airport gives them the best price; there are people in Central Jersey that go to Philadelphia International instead of Newark. That doesn't make PHI a New York area airport. And diversions are by their nature non-standard operations. It's a diversion. It's not the regular intended destination. New York-bound planes also get diverted to Boston. Doesn't make Logan a New York airport. That's a red herring.
Regardless of that, however, there is objective standards for which airport is linked to which city, based on FAA and other regulatory definitions. For example, the customs offices at LVI and Trenton are both satellite offices of the Philly office. (See here). I got that reference from the list of cities with more than one airport, by the way. It doesn't list LVI, Tweed or Trenton. I increasingly think that is the best way to go. Keep it to the airports in the MSA, not CSA, as the CSA includes areas that are less New York connected and more New York adjacent. oknazevad ( talk) 15:39, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
PS, the FAA study that Djflem linked puts LVI, Trenton (and Atlantic City, which we haven't mentioned at all) as part of a section on the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission. The Deleware Valley is the Philly metro area. Again, people in the New York area, especially the southern and western suburbs, aren't adverse to going to the next metro area for a flight, especially considering the congestion at the three main airports. But that doesn't make them New York area airports. oknazevad ( talk) 15:55, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
PPS: So far we've focused on originating passengers. But airports are also destinations. Can anyone show that people are flying into Lehigh Valley or Tweed New Haven to get to New York City? Because that's just as important. oknazevad ( talk) 16:11, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
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The image Image:N6676D.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 01:58, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 17:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Aviation in the Port of New York and New Jersey → Aviation in the New York metropolitan area – A far better name. "Port of New York and New Jersey" refers to the body of water with seaports, and is unlikely to be used in reference to airports, especially when some of the airports referred to in the article are nowhere near that body of water. It would also bring this article in line with the main article on the metro area at New York metropolitan area and similar articles such as List of airports in the Los Angeles area. The current article was formed from a recent, AFD endorsed merger between Aviation in New York City and List of airports in the New York City area; at that AfD there was endorsement for the use of the term "New York metropolitan area".
I attempted to boldly move it, but was reverted by an inappropriate cut-and-paste move, meaning that regardless of the title of the article, administrator assistance is needed to repair the edit history, which is now messed up. oknazevad ( talk) 14:31, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
The Lehigh Valley International Airport merits inclusion due to its inclusion in the NYC Consolidated Statistical Area and draw from NW New Jersey. Heff01 ( talk) 01:55, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
MacArthur and Westchester are no more 'main airports' than LVI is and they serve eastern suburbs of NYC while LVI serves some western suburbs. LVI is on track to total almost a million passengers this year after a major slump just a few years ago. Allegiant Air markets its flights to/from the airport as serving eastern PA and northern NJ. When planes planning to land at one of the three major NYC metro airports must be diverted, LVI is a not-uncommon choice. While it is true that Lehigh, Northampton, and New Haven Counties traditionally were not thought of as part of NYC's metro region, people have migrated outwards and some continue to commute to jobs closer to or in NYC while living distantly. New Haven was added to the Combined SA in 2003 and the Lehigh Valley was added in 2013. Both airports merit inclusion and LVI does more so at this time. I see a real future for Tweed New Haven once the runway extension is done. Meanwhile, the Aviation in the Philadelphia metropolitan area page includes Reading and Atlantic City, both of which traditionally were not thought of as part of Philadelphia's metro region (only in its DMA). If CSA inclusion is sufficient for inclusion on that page, it should be for this one too. Heff01 ( talk) 09:26, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Also, this page is included in WikiProject Pennsylvania. In the 2010 census over seven percent of the state's population lived in the five counties currently in the CSA. LVI also draws from Warren and Hunterdon Counties. Heff01 ( talk) 11:17, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
This entire discussion runs into a many-fold problem. Firstly, that the combined statistical area as currently defined is very broad, and includes areas that historically have been considered either separate metro areas (like the Lehigh Valley) or part of another major city's metro area, like Trenton, which was also considered part of the Philly area. And that's the other aspect of the problem: in the northeast corridor, the end of one metro area and the beginning of another is fuzzy at best with lots of overlap. As noted, Warren and Hunterdon counties in New Jersey have ties to both NYC and the Lehigh Valley. When I worked in Hunterdon county I had colleagues who lived in both directions students whose one parent commuted to NYC and while the other worked in Allentown. Extreme (1.25 hour +) commuting became a thing for a bit there.
Drawing passengers shouldn't really be a guide, anyway, as people in those transitional areas will go to which ever airport gives them the best price; there are people in Central Jersey that go to Philadelphia International instead of Newark. That doesn't make PHI a New York area airport. And diversions are by their nature non-standard operations. It's a diversion. It's not the regular intended destination. New York-bound planes also get diverted to Boston. Doesn't make Logan a New York airport. That's a red herring.
Regardless of that, however, there is objective standards for which airport is linked to which city, based on FAA and other regulatory definitions. For example, the customs offices at LVI and Trenton are both satellite offices of the Philly office. (See here). I got that reference from the list of cities with more than one airport, by the way. It doesn't list LVI, Tweed or Trenton. I increasingly think that is the best way to go. Keep it to the airports in the MSA, not CSA, as the CSA includes areas that are less New York connected and more New York adjacent. oknazevad ( talk) 15:39, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
PS, the FAA study that Djflem linked puts LVI, Trenton (and Atlantic City, which we haven't mentioned at all) as part of a section on the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission. The Deleware Valley is the Philly metro area. Again, people in the New York area, especially the southern and western suburbs, aren't adverse to going to the next metro area for a flight, especially considering the congestion at the three main airports. But that doesn't make them New York area airports. oknazevad ( talk) 15:55, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
PPS: So far we've focused on originating passengers. But airports are also destinations. Can anyone show that people are flying into Lehigh Valley or Tweed New Haven to get to New York City? Because that's just as important. oknazevad ( talk) 16:11, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Aviation in the New York metropolitan area. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:04, 3 November 2017 (UTC)