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please send to me dacia solenza's Specifications at ismail _sh@hotmail.com , becuase I want to have one
Image:Dacia.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Is the name of the company 'Dacia' or 'Automobile Dacia' ? The introduction and the article name makes it sounds like the 'Automobile Dacia' but the company website does not agree with this. If the name is simply 'Dacia' then the article should be renamed to Dacia (automobile) to make it consistent with other car company articles in Category:Car manufacturers. Stepho-wrs ( talk) 04:29, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
The company is called S.C. AUTOMOBILE DACIA S.A., see hereand here. Btw automobile in romanian means automobiles (the plural form not the singular), automobil is the sg form.
There's a discussion at Talk:Dacia (disambiguation)#Primary topic over which article should be the Primary Topic for the name "Dacia". Comments welcome -- Boing! said Zebedee ( talk) 18:27, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
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Sale figures are not accurate enough in the sense that it doesn't take into account Dacia cars produced by dacia and rebadged as Renault for commercial purposes.
For exemple in 2007, total sales were not 230 000 but 367 745 (230000 dacia and the rest under renault brand) Last year, 950 000 wer sold
See this article for more details=
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Logan#Chiffres_de_ventes
Until we get the correct figures i'm editing main article and will add a notification that those figures are only the partial sales under dacia logo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.66.196.6 ( talk) 14:11, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for the late response, I didn't see your comment before. I will try to be brief, but there are a lot of things to make clear. I think the vast majority of the points you raised are invalid. First, the Citan is basically a badge engineered Renault Kangoo, made in French factories owned by Renault and with minor cosmetic changes, the fact it carries a Daimler AG's marque logo and is sold in Mercedes' dealerships doesn't change its origin. Second, "Dacia" as a manufacturer as well as a marque doesn't really exist beyond Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East. Furthermore, outside Romania Dacia is no more than a mere division of Renault, Automobile Dacia S.A. doesn't own any factory internationally, all are wholly or partially owned by Renault SAS (the car manufacturer Renault) or the holding Renault S.A. The same for the dealerships network. The only factory we can properly call a "Dacia" factory is the Romanian one. Third, the fact a Renault Logan article didn't exist doesn't imply anything, that's only a question of consensus within Wikipedia. Sometimes the badge engineered cars obtain its own article, as was the case with the Citan. Sometimes, they are merged into a single article, see the Master example. There were similar cases to those of Dacia's cars in other multinational carmakers. The Opel Astra was sold with minor changes as the Vauxhall Astra, Holden Astra and Chevrolet Astra. However, General Motors counted sales of each subsidiary separetely, didn't add all to the Opel sales.
In brief, we can't count Renault and Nissan sales as Dacia sales simply because it is original research. The sales table is already problematic as it is because some sources are no so that reliable (for example, blogs). However, I think it can be kept if it included objective information. If we made up sales statics based on personal opinions, I would recommend its elimination. Regards. -- Urbanoc ( talk) 18:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi 193.56.241.24, here is my answer:
a) Dacia is not independent. It's 99.43% owned by Renault. All its models since 2005 logan to todays are from Renault acquisition era. "unique models" Yes Dacia logan is completely unique compared with Renault logan or Nissan Aprio? No. It is completely logic that the Renault group and Renault-Nissan alliance rebrands them for commercial reason (Nissan has better reputation in Mexico for example) As for talking about "Gamme entry" , well, at least you finally admitted that this entity exists as a whole. Call it "gamme entry" or whatever. The whole statistics of Dacia and rebrands counted together are no more "orgininal research" thanks to Renault director. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.56.241.24 ( talk) 18:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
No, Dacia is not independent. It's completely under Renault control since 2000s. If Renault decides to rename Dacia logan as Tata Logan or Avtovaz Logan, they will, still the same car sold by the same group and counted as the same category.
I'm seeing that i'm completely wasting my time discussing with you. You are basically denying any argument or any sources thrown at you, this whole debate (50 lines!) just to add complementary figures (in addition to existing ones) is ridiculous, as your stubborn attitude with calling it "original research" when it's clearly not.
Gamme entry is 100% related to Dacia "La gamme « Entry » qui comprend donc les Dacia et les même modèles vendus sous le label Renault dans le monde" Translation: Entry gamme that includes DACIA AND THE SAME MODELS sold under the Renault brand"
I don't know for what obscure reasons you don't want to admit it, but still ATM Dacia models its rebrands represent the whole gamme entry. Even if it was partially, it would still deserve to be mentionned on the Dacia main article. The source that you called a "blog" is simply the number 1 car media in French speaking world. If you are still wanting to stubbornly call it "original research", then the whole dacia logan, duster, sandero articles (as well as others) are all original research too =
""Assembly Mioveni, Romania São José dos Pinhais, Brazil (Renault Brazil) Envigado, Colombia (Sofasa) Nashik, India (Mahindra) Tehran, Iran (Pars Khodro, IKCO) Casablanca, Morocco (Somaca) Moscow, Russia (Avtoframos) Tolyatti, Russia (Lada)[nb 1] Pretoria, South Africa (Nissan""
From logan article =
""The Dacia Logan is a small family car produced jointly by the French manufacturer Renault and its Romanian subsidiary Dacia since 2004. It is manufactured at Dacia's automobile plant in Mioveni, Romania, and in Morocco, Brazil, Turkey, Russia, Colombia, Iran, India and South Africa. It is also marketed as the Renault Logan, Lada Largus, Renault Symbol, Nissan Aprio, Mahindra Verito or Renault Tondar 90, depending on the existing presence or positioning of the Renault brand"".
From
Duster article
"It is also marketed as the Renault Duster in certain markets, such as India, Russia or South America."
And so on.
Your attitude is unconstructive, particularly considering the communautary aspect of wikipedia. I sincerely hope that whenever you want to add some details to any wikipedia article, there is not somebody behind you denying it and calling "original research" your contribution everytime, but rather people trying to help, that's how it should be on wikipedia.
86.66.196.6 (
talk)
19:49, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
Yep, it's true the Logan article intro is not correctly written (that's why I said "most of them" and not "all of them"), but it must be considered it was created from an European point of view (as many English-speaking editors interested in that car are Europeans), not a global one. The other cars have introductions more according to a global perspective of the matter (which is what Wikipedia pursues). But the facts the article is called Dacia Logan or has a poor-written lead section don't mean it only covers the Dacia-marketed version of the Logan. There are similar examples around Wikipedia: Renault Master (Vauxhall/Opel Movano), Nissan Micra (Renault Pulse), Renault Samsung SM7 (Renault Talisman), Opel Adam (Vauxhall Adam), etc.
Anyway, as the article "Dacia Logan" covers all the versions of that particular model (Dacia or Renault Logan, Renault Tondar 90, Nissan Aprio, and so on) you can put on that particular article all the sales of the car in its different incarnations (good luck with that, as statics of the Iranian sales and that of Nissan are pretty difficult to find in reliable sources). But the discussion is not about the Logan. The discussion is about Automobile Dacia (after all, this is its talk page), and the problem here is include all the M0 sales on this article. Again, it is not about the Renault group's entry range, it's about a particular subsidiary/marque of that group. Dacia is not present in South and Central America. Dacia is not present in South Africa. Dacia is not present in India. It is present the Renault group through the Renault subsidiary/marque (Renault SAS). The article Automobile Dacia doesn't say nothing of a presence in those countries.
The consensus is far from reached, I'm afraid. Regards. -- Urbanoc ( talk) 13:52, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Automobile Dacia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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|
please send to me dacia solenza's Specifications at ismail _sh@hotmail.com , becuase I want to have one
Image:Dacia.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 08:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Image:Dacia Nova.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Is the name of the company 'Dacia' or 'Automobile Dacia' ? The introduction and the article name makes it sounds like the 'Automobile Dacia' but the company website does not agree with this. If the name is simply 'Dacia' then the article should be renamed to Dacia (automobile) to make it consistent with other car company articles in Category:Car manufacturers. Stepho-wrs ( talk) 04:29, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
The company is called S.C. AUTOMOBILE DACIA S.A., see hereand here. Btw automobile in romanian means automobiles (the plural form not the singular), automobil is the sg form.
There's a discussion at Talk:Dacia (disambiguation)#Primary topic over which article should be the Primary Topic for the name "Dacia". Comments welcome -- Boing! said Zebedee ( talk) 18:27, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Dacia 1410.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests February 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Dacia 1410.JPG) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 11:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC) |
Sale figures are not accurate enough in the sense that it doesn't take into account Dacia cars produced by dacia and rebadged as Renault for commercial purposes.
For exemple in 2007, total sales were not 230 000 but 367 745 (230000 dacia and the rest under renault brand) Last year, 950 000 wer sold
See this article for more details=
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia_Logan#Chiffres_de_ventes
Until we get the correct figures i'm editing main article and will add a notification that those figures are only the partial sales under dacia logo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.66.196.6 ( talk) 14:11, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for the late response, I didn't see your comment before. I will try to be brief, but there are a lot of things to make clear. I think the vast majority of the points you raised are invalid. First, the Citan is basically a badge engineered Renault Kangoo, made in French factories owned by Renault and with minor cosmetic changes, the fact it carries a Daimler AG's marque logo and is sold in Mercedes' dealerships doesn't change its origin. Second, "Dacia" as a manufacturer as well as a marque doesn't really exist beyond Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East. Furthermore, outside Romania Dacia is no more than a mere division of Renault, Automobile Dacia S.A. doesn't own any factory internationally, all are wholly or partially owned by Renault SAS (the car manufacturer Renault) or the holding Renault S.A. The same for the dealerships network. The only factory we can properly call a "Dacia" factory is the Romanian one. Third, the fact a Renault Logan article didn't exist doesn't imply anything, that's only a question of consensus within Wikipedia. Sometimes the badge engineered cars obtain its own article, as was the case with the Citan. Sometimes, they are merged into a single article, see the Master example. There were similar cases to those of Dacia's cars in other multinational carmakers. The Opel Astra was sold with minor changes as the Vauxhall Astra, Holden Astra and Chevrolet Astra. However, General Motors counted sales of each subsidiary separetely, didn't add all to the Opel sales.
In brief, we can't count Renault and Nissan sales as Dacia sales simply because it is original research. The sales table is already problematic as it is because some sources are no so that reliable (for example, blogs). However, I think it can be kept if it included objective information. If we made up sales statics based on personal opinions, I would recommend its elimination. Regards. -- Urbanoc ( talk) 18:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi 193.56.241.24, here is my answer:
a) Dacia is not independent. It's 99.43% owned by Renault. All its models since 2005 logan to todays are from Renault acquisition era. "unique models" Yes Dacia logan is completely unique compared with Renault logan or Nissan Aprio? No. It is completely logic that the Renault group and Renault-Nissan alliance rebrands them for commercial reason (Nissan has better reputation in Mexico for example) As for talking about "Gamme entry" , well, at least you finally admitted that this entity exists as a whole. Call it "gamme entry" or whatever. The whole statistics of Dacia and rebrands counted together are no more "orgininal research" thanks to Renault director. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.56.241.24 ( talk) 18:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
No, Dacia is not independent. It's completely under Renault control since 2000s. If Renault decides to rename Dacia logan as Tata Logan or Avtovaz Logan, they will, still the same car sold by the same group and counted as the same category.
I'm seeing that i'm completely wasting my time discussing with you. You are basically denying any argument or any sources thrown at you, this whole debate (50 lines!) just to add complementary figures (in addition to existing ones) is ridiculous, as your stubborn attitude with calling it "original research" when it's clearly not.
Gamme entry is 100% related to Dacia "La gamme « Entry » qui comprend donc les Dacia et les même modèles vendus sous le label Renault dans le monde" Translation: Entry gamme that includes DACIA AND THE SAME MODELS sold under the Renault brand"
I don't know for what obscure reasons you don't want to admit it, but still ATM Dacia models its rebrands represent the whole gamme entry. Even if it was partially, it would still deserve to be mentionned on the Dacia main article. The source that you called a "blog" is simply the number 1 car media in French speaking world. If you are still wanting to stubbornly call it "original research", then the whole dacia logan, duster, sandero articles (as well as others) are all original research too =
""Assembly Mioveni, Romania São José dos Pinhais, Brazil (Renault Brazil) Envigado, Colombia (Sofasa) Nashik, India (Mahindra) Tehran, Iran (Pars Khodro, IKCO) Casablanca, Morocco (Somaca) Moscow, Russia (Avtoframos) Tolyatti, Russia (Lada)[nb 1] Pretoria, South Africa (Nissan""
From logan article =
""The Dacia Logan is a small family car produced jointly by the French manufacturer Renault and its Romanian subsidiary Dacia since 2004. It is manufactured at Dacia's automobile plant in Mioveni, Romania, and in Morocco, Brazil, Turkey, Russia, Colombia, Iran, India and South Africa. It is also marketed as the Renault Logan, Lada Largus, Renault Symbol, Nissan Aprio, Mahindra Verito or Renault Tondar 90, depending on the existing presence or positioning of the Renault brand"".
From
Duster article
"It is also marketed as the Renault Duster in certain markets, such as India, Russia or South America."
And so on.
Your attitude is unconstructive, particularly considering the communautary aspect of wikipedia. I sincerely hope that whenever you want to add some details to any wikipedia article, there is not somebody behind you denying it and calling "original research" your contribution everytime, but rather people trying to help, that's how it should be on wikipedia.
86.66.196.6 (
talk)
19:49, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
Yep, it's true the Logan article intro is not correctly written (that's why I said "most of them" and not "all of them"), but it must be considered it was created from an European point of view (as many English-speaking editors interested in that car are Europeans), not a global one. The other cars have introductions more according to a global perspective of the matter (which is what Wikipedia pursues). But the facts the article is called Dacia Logan or has a poor-written lead section don't mean it only covers the Dacia-marketed version of the Logan. There are similar examples around Wikipedia: Renault Master (Vauxhall/Opel Movano), Nissan Micra (Renault Pulse), Renault Samsung SM7 (Renault Talisman), Opel Adam (Vauxhall Adam), etc.
Anyway, as the article "Dacia Logan" covers all the versions of that particular model (Dacia or Renault Logan, Renault Tondar 90, Nissan Aprio, and so on) you can put on that particular article all the sales of the car in its different incarnations (good luck with that, as statics of the Iranian sales and that of Nissan are pretty difficult to find in reliable sources). But the discussion is not about the Logan. The discussion is about Automobile Dacia (after all, this is its talk page), and the problem here is include all the M0 sales on this article. Again, it is not about the Renault group's entry range, it's about a particular subsidiary/marque of that group. Dacia is not present in South and Central America. Dacia is not present in South Africa. Dacia is not present in India. It is present the Renault group through the Renault subsidiary/marque (Renault SAS). The article Automobile Dacia doesn't say nothing of a presence in those countries.
The consensus is far from reached, I'm afraid. Regards. -- Urbanoc ( talk) 13:52, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
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