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Is the flag society in the business of educational and general charity or poltical advocacy i.e. retaining the existing flag of Australia?
It seems to me they are most preoccupied with advancing education and with the relief of poverty.
If you look at their paper on the "National Flag, Holiday and Flag Bill" they have on the table, on one level it seeks to entrench the existing flag in the constitution, if only to guarantee and put beyond all doubt the voting rights of the Australian people in the event the Flags Act is ever reviewed, which are currently only enshrined in statutory provisions of questionable constitutionality. In addition, their bill only provides a description of the national flag in general terms, meaning under their scheme the Flags Act would remain on the statute books to provide the actual specifications, meaning if another point on the federation star was desired in the event a new state is admitted to the federation, that change could be achieved by simple legislation - not the plebicite which is currently stipulated by law.
All this is really doing is addressing the shortcomings in the current provisions relating to reviewing the national flag design in the Flags Act, which have been raised by both sides to the debate since the Flags Amendment Bill was introduced in 1996.
Davedonovan ( talk) 12:30, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
I only subscribe to the flag society's free newsletter. That's about it.
I'd question whether that's right. I was watching the news one night and a Salvation Army spokepersonThey proposed a welfare reform that would have required an amendment to act of parliament.
It seems like their proposed amendment is remedial only. As per the edit I made, it's more of a refinement rather than anything new; a nuance.
I would be interesting to know if they have charity status with the taxation authorities.
Davedonovan ( talk) 10:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
I say keep the flag society page. I see there's an awful lot of references to them in newspaper articles. Dr Elizabeth Kwan mentioned them in her seminal work "Flag and Nation". As you can see here they are the custodians of the iconic parliament house centenary flag https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346/. You'd be surprised how many people in Queensland have heard of them. You're joking aren't you?
All we can do is take down the tag or ask for a third opinion.
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I submit there are enough references from the flag society displaying their parliament house centenary flag on flag day alone that have already been supplied to justify this article renaming such as:
Ian Warden, 'How cricketing animals were kept off Australia's national flag', The Canberra Times (Canberra), 4 September 2002, p. 7 'Students celebrate as the Australian flag turns 103', The Reporter (Acacia Ridge), 8 September 2004, p. 3 Annelie Hailes, 'Huge flag for a big country', Courier Mail, 4 September 2009, p. 33 'Special day flagged by Central students', The Queensland Times, 2 September 2010, p. 6 Sarah Harvey, 'Now that’s a flag! Students salute big flag', The Queensland Times, p. 4 September 2012, p. 1 Chris Owen, ‘Ensign flags a very special Aussie day’, The Queensland Times, 3 September 2013, p. 2 Iconic flag to tour Warwick, Warwick Daily News, p. 3 https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346/
58.84.78.8 ( talk) 11:42, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
It mentions the flag society. They're the custodians of a national treasure. You cannot be serious.
https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346/
58.84.78.8 ( talk) 09:52, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
I've decided to set up an account and ask for a third opinion. I think the notability tag should be removed and the last edit reversed. This organisation has been mentioned in umpteen newspaper articles the most recent one I can find being https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346 Dr Elizabeth Kwan mentioned them in her seminal work "Flag and Nation" in a section entitled 'Flag organisations in Australia.'
If they are the custodians of an Australian national treasure doesn't make them notable right there?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
That's what your saying. The Joint House Department on the other hand says they handed over to the Australian Flag Society not only custody of the parliament house centenary flag but full ownership in 2002.
I think you are mistaking the parliament house centenary flag with the centenary flag of state. You would be right in saying the department of PM and cabinet have responsibility for that. But they are two different flags. The question is though does the flag society's custodianship of the former which has become a national treasure make them notable? I would argue it does.
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:19, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Sorry about that. But I've now set up an account and asked for a third opinion rather than start an edit war. I'm doing the right thing aren't I?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:30, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
How about creating an article about the parliament house centenary flag and redirecting this page there?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 16:46, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
![]() |
I am interpreting this dispute as a question of whether the Australian Flag Society is a notable organisation or not, following the placement of a notability tag on the article as per WP:FAILN. A third opinion is an informal way of resolving content disputes, and as such is not an appropriate way to determine notability. As notability is still disputed by the parties, the best way to resolve this dispute as to whether this organisation is notable or not is for the user who believes the organisation is not notable ( User:Nick-D in this case) to nominate the page at WP:AFD, where the community can discuss the matter. Iffy★ Chat -- 12:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC) |
I'm fine with that if someone can post the link.
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 12:12, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Hasn't this been fairly well covered already in the section about the flag society's Australian Christian Broadcasting arm?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
I've merged the religion section into the one on Australian Christian Broadcasting like so:
In December 2016 the AFS launched Australian Christian Broadcasting as a news wire service focusing on biblical eschatology and current world events. The official AFS facebook fan page also features a 'world war 3 watch' series which regularly monitors developments in relation to the civil wars in Ukraine and Syria, the North Korean missile crisis, the Iranian nuclear accord and the South China Sea dispute. [19] [20]
It is the position of the AFS that the Australian constitution and national flag are both of divine inspiration.[21]
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 12:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Where exactly does the religion thing fit with loving the flag? By general Australian standards, the society's religious views are extreme. They are mentioned in the article. It also has its "dramatic" position on World War III. There is no explanation of any connection between these views. What is really going on? Is the "Society" really anything more than a mouthpiece for one person with extreme views in several areas? I would fill in these gaps if I knew where to look, but I don't. Can anyone help? HiLo48 ( talk) 23:31, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
So what if the society has one main spokesperson? If you look at their facebook page they seem to have something of a following of religious minded patriotic types who strongly identify with them to me <www.facebook.com/Australian.Flag.Society>. They can have any organisational structure they like. They've got as much right to be here as you do. Live and let live I say.
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 04:55, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
How about we simply redirect this article to the one that has been proposed and accepted for the Parliament house centenary flag (Australia)? I propose that we restore to this latter entry a section entitled "Australian Flag Society collection" as follows:
According to Dr Elizabeth Kwan's "Flag and Nation" the AFS was originally constituted as the Australian Capital Territory branch of ANFA. [1] However, on 15 July 2003, affiliation with ANFA was severed, and the organisation rebranded as a national body. [2] The organisation was founded by Nigel Morris who in 2002 secured federal funding for the distribution of the "Our National Flag ... since 1901" video kit to all primary schools in Australia [3] [4] [5] being described as a "flag lobbyist" by the Canberra Times. [6]
The official AFS facebook fanpage states the following aims and objectives:
In addition to acting as the custodian of the parliament house centenary flag the AFS has proposed that 22 August be proclaimed as "Captain Cook Day" in 2005 to commemorate the day explorer James Cook laid claim to the east coast of Australia as New South Wales on Possession Island in the name of King George III. [8] In 2013 the AFS would also announce a worldwide quest and $10,000 reward for information leading to the discovery of the Union Jack which was reportedly hoisted as a second flag at the battle of the Eureka Stockade. [9]
The AFS has proposed that all schools in Australia pause to recite the words of the national salute as part of the annual Australian National Flag Day commemorations. Formerly a tradition the national salute was part of the school curriculum until falling into disuse from the late 1950s. [10] The version used by the AFS in conjunction with the parliament house centenary flag reads as follows:
"I fear God, I love my country, I honour her Queen, I salute her flag, I promise to always obey her laws." [11]
Would that be an acceptable resolution to all?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 05:13, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
How about we expand on the Australian National Flag Association entry with sections for each of state chapters and merge this article there? I think that would be a good fix especially as there is no 'Australian National Flag Association' if it is just five separate state based organisations plus the Australian Flag Society. Aussieflagfan ( talk) 05:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
I've seen reports recently that the Australian Flag Society has now become part of Anzac folklore for having discovered a national treasure in the form of the Australian flag used by the 2/23rd battalion on Tarakan. Should we therefore remove the notability tag at this point? They've been around for a lot of years now. They are relatively well known in Queensland for all these syndicated newspaper artciles. https://www.facebook.com/Australian.Flag.Society/photos/a.210701592278728/2224884557527078 . Aussieflagfan ( talk) 11:29, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
Regardless of the merits of the arguments presented by Aussieflagfan, I don't think we need a full-blown RFC for removing the tag. Let's remove the tag and if someone disagrees with notability they should pursue deletion according to policy. – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 10:25, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
How about we just delete this article for now. And just continue to see where this is all heading over the next couple of years. https://www.facebook.com/Australian.Flag.Society/photos/a.210701592278728/2224884557527078. Aussieflagfan ( talk) 02:05, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
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Is the flag society in the business of educational and general charity or poltical advocacy i.e. retaining the existing flag of Australia?
It seems to me they are most preoccupied with advancing education and with the relief of poverty.
If you look at their paper on the "National Flag, Holiday and Flag Bill" they have on the table, on one level it seeks to entrench the existing flag in the constitution, if only to guarantee and put beyond all doubt the voting rights of the Australian people in the event the Flags Act is ever reviewed, which are currently only enshrined in statutory provisions of questionable constitutionality. In addition, their bill only provides a description of the national flag in general terms, meaning under their scheme the Flags Act would remain on the statute books to provide the actual specifications, meaning if another point on the federation star was desired in the event a new state is admitted to the federation, that change could be achieved by simple legislation - not the plebicite which is currently stipulated by law.
All this is really doing is addressing the shortcomings in the current provisions relating to reviewing the national flag design in the Flags Act, which have been raised by both sides to the debate since the Flags Amendment Bill was introduced in 1996.
Davedonovan ( talk) 12:30, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
I only subscribe to the flag society's free newsletter. That's about it.
I'd question whether that's right. I was watching the news one night and a Salvation Army spokepersonThey proposed a welfare reform that would have required an amendment to act of parliament.
It seems like their proposed amendment is remedial only. As per the edit I made, it's more of a refinement rather than anything new; a nuance.
I would be interesting to know if they have charity status with the taxation authorities.
Davedonovan ( talk) 10:23, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
I say keep the flag society page. I see there's an awful lot of references to them in newspaper articles. Dr Elizabeth Kwan mentioned them in her seminal work "Flag and Nation". As you can see here they are the custodians of the iconic parliament house centenary flag https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346/. You'd be surprised how many people in Queensland have heard of them. You're joking aren't you?
All we can do is take down the tag or ask for a third opinion.
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I submit there are enough references from the flag society displaying their parliament house centenary flag on flag day alone that have already been supplied to justify this article renaming such as:
Ian Warden, 'How cricketing animals were kept off Australia's national flag', The Canberra Times (Canberra), 4 September 2002, p. 7 'Students celebrate as the Australian flag turns 103', The Reporter (Acacia Ridge), 8 September 2004, p. 3 Annelie Hailes, 'Huge flag for a big country', Courier Mail, 4 September 2009, p. 33 'Special day flagged by Central students', The Queensland Times, 2 September 2010, p. 6 Sarah Harvey, 'Now that’s a flag! Students salute big flag', The Queensland Times, p. 4 September 2012, p. 1 Chris Owen, ‘Ensign flags a very special Aussie day’, The Queensland Times, 3 September 2013, p. 2 Iconic flag to tour Warwick, Warwick Daily News, p. 3 https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346/
58.84.78.8 ( talk) 11:42, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
It mentions the flag society. They're the custodians of a national treasure. You cannot be serious.
https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346/
58.84.78.8 ( talk) 09:52, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
I've decided to set up an account and ask for a third opinion. I think the notability tag should be removed and the last edit reversed. This organisation has been mentioned in umpteen newspaper articles the most recent one I can find being https://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/iconic-flag-to-tour-warwick/3215346 Dr Elizabeth Kwan mentioned them in her seminal work "Flag and Nation" in a section entitled 'Flag organisations in Australia.'
If they are the custodians of an Australian national treasure doesn't make them notable right there?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
That's what your saying. The Joint House Department on the other hand says they handed over to the Australian Flag Society not only custody of the parliament house centenary flag but full ownership in 2002.
I think you are mistaking the parliament house centenary flag with the centenary flag of state. You would be right in saying the department of PM and cabinet have responsibility for that. But they are two different flags. The question is though does the flag society's custodianship of the former which has become a national treasure make them notable? I would argue it does.
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:19, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Sorry about that. But I've now set up an account and asked for a third opinion rather than start an edit war. I'm doing the right thing aren't I?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:30, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
How about creating an article about the parliament house centenary flag and redirecting this page there?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 16:46, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
![]() |
I am interpreting this dispute as a question of whether the Australian Flag Society is a notable organisation or not, following the placement of a notability tag on the article as per WP:FAILN. A third opinion is an informal way of resolving content disputes, and as such is not an appropriate way to determine notability. As notability is still disputed by the parties, the best way to resolve this dispute as to whether this organisation is notable or not is for the user who believes the organisation is not notable ( User:Nick-D in this case) to nominate the page at WP:AFD, where the community can discuss the matter. Iffy★ Chat -- 12:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC) |
I'm fine with that if someone can post the link.
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 12:12, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Hasn't this been fairly well covered already in the section about the flag society's Australian Christian Broadcasting arm?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 10:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
I've merged the religion section into the one on Australian Christian Broadcasting like so:
In December 2016 the AFS launched Australian Christian Broadcasting as a news wire service focusing on biblical eschatology and current world events. The official AFS facebook fan page also features a 'world war 3 watch' series which regularly monitors developments in relation to the civil wars in Ukraine and Syria, the North Korean missile crisis, the Iranian nuclear accord and the South China Sea dispute. [19] [20]
It is the position of the AFS that the Australian constitution and national flag are both of divine inspiration.[21]
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 12:03, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Where exactly does the religion thing fit with loving the flag? By general Australian standards, the society's religious views are extreme. They are mentioned in the article. It also has its "dramatic" position on World War III. There is no explanation of any connection between these views. What is really going on? Is the "Society" really anything more than a mouthpiece for one person with extreme views in several areas? I would fill in these gaps if I knew where to look, but I don't. Can anyone help? HiLo48 ( talk) 23:31, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
So what if the society has one main spokesperson? If you look at their facebook page they seem to have something of a following of religious minded patriotic types who strongly identify with them to me <www.facebook.com/Australian.Flag.Society>. They can have any organisational structure they like. They've got as much right to be here as you do. Live and let live I say.
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 04:55, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
How about we simply redirect this article to the one that has been proposed and accepted for the Parliament house centenary flag (Australia)? I propose that we restore to this latter entry a section entitled "Australian Flag Society collection" as follows:
According to Dr Elizabeth Kwan's "Flag and Nation" the AFS was originally constituted as the Australian Capital Territory branch of ANFA. [1] However, on 15 July 2003, affiliation with ANFA was severed, and the organisation rebranded as a national body. [2] The organisation was founded by Nigel Morris who in 2002 secured federal funding for the distribution of the "Our National Flag ... since 1901" video kit to all primary schools in Australia [3] [4] [5] being described as a "flag lobbyist" by the Canberra Times. [6]
The official AFS facebook fanpage states the following aims and objectives:
In addition to acting as the custodian of the parliament house centenary flag the AFS has proposed that 22 August be proclaimed as "Captain Cook Day" in 2005 to commemorate the day explorer James Cook laid claim to the east coast of Australia as New South Wales on Possession Island in the name of King George III. [8] In 2013 the AFS would also announce a worldwide quest and $10,000 reward for information leading to the discovery of the Union Jack which was reportedly hoisted as a second flag at the battle of the Eureka Stockade. [9]
The AFS has proposed that all schools in Australia pause to recite the words of the national salute as part of the annual Australian National Flag Day commemorations. Formerly a tradition the national salute was part of the school curriculum until falling into disuse from the late 1950s. [10] The version used by the AFS in conjunction with the parliament house centenary flag reads as follows:
"I fear God, I love my country, I honour her Queen, I salute her flag, I promise to always obey her laws." [11]
Would that be an acceptable resolution to all?
Aussieflagfan ( talk) 05:13, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
How about we expand on the Australian National Flag Association entry with sections for each of state chapters and merge this article there? I think that would be a good fix especially as there is no 'Australian National Flag Association' if it is just five separate state based organisations plus the Australian Flag Society. Aussieflagfan ( talk) 05:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
I've seen reports recently that the Australian Flag Society has now become part of Anzac folklore for having discovered a national treasure in the form of the Australian flag used by the 2/23rd battalion on Tarakan. Should we therefore remove the notability tag at this point? They've been around for a lot of years now. They are relatively well known in Queensland for all these syndicated newspaper artciles. https://www.facebook.com/Australian.Flag.Society/photos/a.210701592278728/2224884557527078 . Aussieflagfan ( talk) 11:29, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
Regardless of the merits of the arguments presented by Aussieflagfan, I don't think we need a full-blown RFC for removing the tag. Let's remove the tag and if someone disagrees with notability they should pursue deletion according to policy. – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 10:25, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
How about we just delete this article for now. And just continue to see where this is all heading over the next couple of years. https://www.facebook.com/Australian.Flag.Society/photos/a.210701592278728/2224884557527078. Aussieflagfan ( talk) 02:05, 2 September 2018 (UTC)