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This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more non-binary people. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Many, but not all, non-binary people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
Autrijus's Pugs project is currently expected to bootstrap Perl 6; as such, she's likely to remain a footnote to that language's history. I don't know if that's Wikipedia-worthy, but it's something. — Brent Dax 07:41, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
According to a profile on Amazon.com, Audrey Tang "Work at Microsoft. Spent 6 years at Amazon.com. Originally from Kansas." http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A2HONNCE6M02GC. Or is this another Audrey Tang? I found it when I was asked to review or provide customer images for a book on Haskell, so it seemed to be on-topic. But perhaps it was just a coincidence. -- HelgeStenstrom 07:32, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Most people who follow Pugs and Perl 6 know that Audrey was born male, her self-identified gender notwithstanding. She has said as much on her blog, and Wikipedia has her in the "Transgender and transsexual people" category; several of the references currently on the page are explicit in this (別叫我「先生」!電腦怪傑唐宗漢變性改名唐鳳, for example). However, the actual article doesn't mention her decision to bring her sex and gender into line and live her life as a woman -- which, frankly, is surprising! A quick glance at the history of this article shows that Audreyt seems to remove any references to her sexual reassignment. Based on her profile, Audreyt appears to be Audrey Tang, so perhaps there is some sensitivity there. However, this is not Audrey's personal home page, this is an encyclopedia article, and I am left wondering why we categorize her as a transgender or transsexual person, link to references that make her sex change explicit, and yet don't mention that she no longer lives her life as a man?
Because she was formally referred to as Autrijus or 唐宗漢, depending on the context, lots of people were and perhaps are confused about this. We don't need to get all bagua about it, but something in the article noting that she was born male and roughly when she decided to live her life as a woman would be appreciated. Audrey, I understand that it's your private life, but since you've publicly addressed this issue on your blog, and that it's already obvious from the article if you read between the lines, why not make it explicit? It would help clear up confusion. I know I was confused when your name changed suddenly. 70.132.14.22 07:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I just want to say that she signifies a female, and does not correspond to the gender of this man, even if he wants to call himself that. Thus I regard the article flawed, and even though I reckon I will be a target of much flaming (internet) from people who call themselves "transexual" (and are regarded as such in the Wikipedia community) and their "supporters", I stand by my decision to correct false references to the person's sex. In the species of homosapiens, there are really only two sexes, (as linked article says) determined by reproductive organs ( hermaphrodites are both, and do not apply to this case). Unless a person who deletes my changes (I'm sure that will happen) proves me wrong, you are simply taking sides, and, in my opinion, just doing more harm. Tang, this is nothing personal. I hope you'll understand (even though I can understand if you don't). Thank you for reading. -- Paxcoder ( talk) 23:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I was also confused when reading it. It discusses, "decided to live as a woman" but it could mean as compared to a child prodigy. The wording needs to be more explicit. Długosz ( talk) 11:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
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Tang's most recent self-identification is non-binary or "postgender," and Tang has stated that the pronouns don't matter so much as the experience behind them. Given this, I've added some information and sources so that the article can accurately reflect Tang's gender, and modified some pronouns to include gender neutral ones. Greente28 ( talk) 18:41, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Recent news articles describe AT as 'Digital Minister' whereas this article says she is 'minister without portfolio' ... wondering whether this needs to be updated? merlinVtwelve ( talk) 20:18, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be quite a lot of prominence given to her deadname, despite that she doesn't seem to be especially notable under it (a bunch of FLOSS contributions and, strangely, the name of her IMDb profile despite that her credits are both using her chosen name).
Given MOS:DEADNAME, should we be listing her birth name at all? — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 09:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ Czar: I just noticed that you are the main contributor to this article, and looking over it now it looks very nice and seems to more or less meet our standards for completeness. Have you considered submitting it as a good article nomination? Figured I'd ask, as Women in Green's 5th Edit-a-thon is ongoing. -- Grnrchst ( talk) 15:02, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more non-binary people. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Many, but not all, non-binary people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
Autrijus's Pugs project is currently expected to bootstrap Perl 6; as such, she's likely to remain a footnote to that language's history. I don't know if that's Wikipedia-worthy, but it's something. — Brent Dax 07:41, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
According to a profile on Amazon.com, Audrey Tang "Work at Microsoft. Spent 6 years at Amazon.com. Originally from Kansas." http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A2HONNCE6M02GC. Or is this another Audrey Tang? I found it when I was asked to review or provide customer images for a book on Haskell, so it seemed to be on-topic. But perhaps it was just a coincidence. -- HelgeStenstrom 07:32, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Most people who follow Pugs and Perl 6 know that Audrey was born male, her self-identified gender notwithstanding. She has said as much on her blog, and Wikipedia has her in the "Transgender and transsexual people" category; several of the references currently on the page are explicit in this (別叫我「先生」!電腦怪傑唐宗漢變性改名唐鳳, for example). However, the actual article doesn't mention her decision to bring her sex and gender into line and live her life as a woman -- which, frankly, is surprising! A quick glance at the history of this article shows that Audreyt seems to remove any references to her sexual reassignment. Based on her profile, Audreyt appears to be Audrey Tang, so perhaps there is some sensitivity there. However, this is not Audrey's personal home page, this is an encyclopedia article, and I am left wondering why we categorize her as a transgender or transsexual person, link to references that make her sex change explicit, and yet don't mention that she no longer lives her life as a man?
Because she was formally referred to as Autrijus or 唐宗漢, depending on the context, lots of people were and perhaps are confused about this. We don't need to get all bagua about it, but something in the article noting that she was born male and roughly when she decided to live her life as a woman would be appreciated. Audrey, I understand that it's your private life, but since you've publicly addressed this issue on your blog, and that it's already obvious from the article if you read between the lines, why not make it explicit? It would help clear up confusion. I know I was confused when your name changed suddenly. 70.132.14.22 07:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I just want to say that she signifies a female, and does not correspond to the gender of this man, even if he wants to call himself that. Thus I regard the article flawed, and even though I reckon I will be a target of much flaming (internet) from people who call themselves "transexual" (and are regarded as such in the Wikipedia community) and their "supporters", I stand by my decision to correct false references to the person's sex. In the species of homosapiens, there are really only two sexes, (as linked article says) determined by reproductive organs ( hermaphrodites are both, and do not apply to this case). Unless a person who deletes my changes (I'm sure that will happen) proves me wrong, you are simply taking sides, and, in my opinion, just doing more harm. Tang, this is nothing personal. I hope you'll understand (even though I can understand if you don't). Thank you for reading. -- Paxcoder ( talk) 23:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
I was also confused when reading it. It discusses, "decided to live as a woman" but it could mean as compared to a child prodigy. The wording needs to be more explicit. Długosz ( talk) 11:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:41, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
Tang's most recent self-identification is non-binary or "postgender," and Tang has stated that the pronouns don't matter so much as the experience behind them. Given this, I've added some information and sources so that the article can accurately reflect Tang's gender, and modified some pronouns to include gender neutral ones. Greente28 ( talk) 18:41, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Recent news articles describe AT as 'Digital Minister' whereas this article says she is 'minister without portfolio' ... wondering whether this needs to be updated? merlinVtwelve ( talk) 20:18, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be quite a lot of prominence given to her deadname, despite that she doesn't seem to be especially notable under it (a bunch of FLOSS contributions and, strangely, the name of her IMDb profile despite that her credits are both using her chosen name).
Given MOS:DEADNAME, should we be listing her birth name at all? — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 09:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ Czar: I just noticed that you are the main contributor to this article, and looking over it now it looks very nice and seems to more or less meet our standards for completeness. Have you considered submitting it as a good article nomination? Figured I'd ask, as Women in Green's 5th Edit-a-thon is ongoing. -- Grnrchst ( talk) 15:02, 20 October 2023 (UTC)