Meta-historical fall ( final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 3 September 2023 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
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@ Mccapra: thank you for your tags regarding this article needing more references and sources. I've started to build more of these out and think that I've reached an acceptable initial level. I have plans for some more development that will bring in more sources (and be fully referenced), but please let me know if any basic gaps might still remain for now. Jjhake ( talk) 16:35, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
For any editors interested in helping with this article, please note this discussion of it here: Wikipedia:Fringe_theories. Jjhake ( talk) 14:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
@ Bakkster Man: as you added some of the four cleanup tags at the top of this article and as I have made an effort to address all of these problems, can you please let me know what examples of any remaining problems remain in the article or if these cleanup tags can now be removed? Thank you for your help.
@ Bon courage: likewise, as you added some of the four cleanup tags at the top of this article and as I have made an effort to address all of these problems, can you also let me know what examples of any remaining problems remain in the article or if these cleanup tags can now be removed? Thank you as well.
Please address any remaining concerns under these four categories tagged:
Jjhake ( talk) 06:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
which Khramov has written about in a 2019 Russian book that offers an alternative to both “theistic evolutionism and creationism.”isn't necessary in the encyclopedic style. Either simply make the statement and cite it to the book, only saying something along the lines of "according to Kharmov" when the statement needs to be attributed as someone's own view rather than a broadly accepted one. Same with a lot of the parentheticals;
Paleontologist Alexander V. Khramov (Borissiak Paleontological Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Ph.D. from Moscow University)should simply be
Paleontologist Alexander V. Khramovfor instance. We're looking for an article that describes "this is the common set of beliefs", rather than a comprehensive academic paper.
We’re getting down to some very short bits of quotation. I’ll keep working at it. Is this still the largest issue in relation to the four tags at the top of the article? Jjhake ( talk) 13:38, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
@ Bakkster Man: I've trimmed a good bit more verbiage and quotations and worked on some verb tense issues (living versus past sources). I'm not seeing much more to improve. Hoping that you might consider if any of the tags at the top are okay to remove at this point. @ Bon courage: also hoping that you might help with cleanup tags that you placed as a good bit of work has been done to address the concerns.-- Jjhake ( talk) 15:19, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
@ FatalSubjectivities: Thank you for the Christopher West quote that you added, but please note that a lot of work was done on this article, after a lot of criticism (and questions of notability) in order to keep it very brief (as a minority view) and to eliminate any long block quotes.
While the article by Christopher West summarizing Pope John Paul II seems to bring up a closely related concept with the categories of "original man” giving way to “historical man," it is not entirely clear to me if this is directly about the concept of a meta-historical human fall. I'd likely need to read more, perhaps from John Paul II. Do you know if these "original man” and “historical man" categories come directly from John Paul II?
If this is clearly referring to a meta-historical human fall, it would probably be best to simply note with one simple sentence that John Paul II and Christopher West talk about the change from "original man” to “historical man" in their consideration of human embodiment. Jjhake ( talk) 22:02, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
@ FatalSubjectivities: Is this piece that you cite from Christopher West an excerpt from a book? There is no publication date or other info. The weakness of this source makes it even more helpful here to determine if this "original man” versus “historical man" language is directly from John Paul II and to cite him directly if possible.
@ FatalSubjectivities: It looks like the source that you are citing is from An Introduction to the Theology of the Body, 8-Part Study Starter Pack (ISBN 811661010853). It is likely material from the "Leader’s Guide" or the "Student Workbook" with "Session 1: An Education in Being Human." At any rate, this source needs to be cited properly (not just pointing to a website with no info on where it was actually published), and it almost certainly should simply refer to the original material from Pope John Paul II.-- Jjhake ( talk) 02:49, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
@ FatalSubjectivities: thank you for your contributions of related content from Augustine and Ruth Coates. Additional related materials can very easily start to sprawl in multiple directions, so it will be critical to keep circling back and consolidating them tightly under some clear and concise main headings. Relating any of these concepts to each other will also start to cross the line into original research, so such content will need to remain only what is most clearly relevant to this specific article content and the relationships to the article content will need to be obvious under the "Related concepts" categories that are kept and developed. -- Jjhake ( talk) 13:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Meta-historical fall ( final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 3 September 2023 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Meta-historical fall article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
@ Mccapra: thank you for your tags regarding this article needing more references and sources. I've started to build more of these out and think that I've reached an acceptable initial level. I have plans for some more development that will bring in more sources (and be fully referenced), but please let me know if any basic gaps might still remain for now. Jjhake ( talk) 16:35, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
For any editors interested in helping with this article, please note this discussion of it here: Wikipedia:Fringe_theories. Jjhake ( talk) 14:30, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
@ Bakkster Man: as you added some of the four cleanup tags at the top of this article and as I have made an effort to address all of these problems, can you please let me know what examples of any remaining problems remain in the article or if these cleanup tags can now be removed? Thank you for your help.
@ Bon courage: likewise, as you added some of the four cleanup tags at the top of this article and as I have made an effort to address all of these problems, can you also let me know what examples of any remaining problems remain in the article or if these cleanup tags can now be removed? Thank you as well.
Please address any remaining concerns under these four categories tagged:
Jjhake ( talk) 06:40, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
which Khramov has written about in a 2019 Russian book that offers an alternative to both “theistic evolutionism and creationism.”isn't necessary in the encyclopedic style. Either simply make the statement and cite it to the book, only saying something along the lines of "according to Kharmov" when the statement needs to be attributed as someone's own view rather than a broadly accepted one. Same with a lot of the parentheticals;
Paleontologist Alexander V. Khramov (Borissiak Paleontological Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Ph.D. from Moscow University)should simply be
Paleontologist Alexander V. Khramovfor instance. We're looking for an article that describes "this is the common set of beliefs", rather than a comprehensive academic paper.
We’re getting down to some very short bits of quotation. I’ll keep working at it. Is this still the largest issue in relation to the four tags at the top of the article? Jjhake ( talk) 13:38, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
@ Bakkster Man: I've trimmed a good bit more verbiage and quotations and worked on some verb tense issues (living versus past sources). I'm not seeing much more to improve. Hoping that you might consider if any of the tags at the top are okay to remove at this point. @ Bon courage: also hoping that you might help with cleanup tags that you placed as a good bit of work has been done to address the concerns.-- Jjhake ( talk) 15:19, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
@ FatalSubjectivities: Thank you for the Christopher West quote that you added, but please note that a lot of work was done on this article, after a lot of criticism (and questions of notability) in order to keep it very brief (as a minority view) and to eliminate any long block quotes.
While the article by Christopher West summarizing Pope John Paul II seems to bring up a closely related concept with the categories of "original man” giving way to “historical man," it is not entirely clear to me if this is directly about the concept of a meta-historical human fall. I'd likely need to read more, perhaps from John Paul II. Do you know if these "original man” and “historical man" categories come directly from John Paul II?
If this is clearly referring to a meta-historical human fall, it would probably be best to simply note with one simple sentence that John Paul II and Christopher West talk about the change from "original man” to “historical man" in their consideration of human embodiment. Jjhake ( talk) 22:02, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
@ FatalSubjectivities: Is this piece that you cite from Christopher West an excerpt from a book? There is no publication date or other info. The weakness of this source makes it even more helpful here to determine if this "original man” versus “historical man" language is directly from John Paul II and to cite him directly if possible.
@ FatalSubjectivities: It looks like the source that you are citing is from An Introduction to the Theology of the Body, 8-Part Study Starter Pack (ISBN 811661010853). It is likely material from the "Leader’s Guide" or the "Student Workbook" with "Session 1: An Education in Being Human." At any rate, this source needs to be cited properly (not just pointing to a website with no info on where it was actually published), and it almost certainly should simply refer to the original material from Pope John Paul II.-- Jjhake ( talk) 02:49, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
@ FatalSubjectivities: thank you for your contributions of related content from Augustine and Ruth Coates. Additional related materials can very easily start to sprawl in multiple directions, so it will be critical to keep circling back and consolidating them tightly under some clear and concise main headings. Relating any of these concepts to each other will also start to cross the line into original research, so such content will need to remain only what is most clearly relevant to this specific article content and the relationships to the article content will need to be obvious under the "Related concepts" categories that are kept and developed. -- Jjhake ( talk) 13:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)