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The result of the move request was: consensus to move Asturian Mountain to Asturian Mountain cattle, per the large percentage of comments in the discussion below concerning that case in particular; no consensus in the other cases, although it appears that one or more of these (esp. Dorset Down) might show consensus for a move if discussed individually or if a new discussion were initiated now that most of the associated move requests have closed. Dekimasu よ! 22:27, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
– Original names are too naturally ambiguous and will be misinterpreted by many readers as places or geographical features. New names will be consistent with Asturian Valley cattle, Forest Mountain pig, etc. See recently concluded requested moves of the same sort: Australian Pit Game -> Australian Pit Game fowl, and West African Dwarf -> West African Dwarf goat, and many other similar cases of natural ambiguity, e.g. White Park cattle, San Clemente Island goat, Black Pied Dairy cattle, Australian Game fowl, Plymouth Rock chicken, Continental Giant rabbit, Gulf Coast Native sheep, Nigerian Dwarf goat, Australian Draught horse. Note that the added species common name at the end ("cattle", "rabbit", etc.) is not capitalized, because it's not part of the formal name of the breed; the species is capitalized only in the few cases when it is invariably part of the name, as in American Quarter Horse, Norwegian Forest Cat, Bernese Mountain Dog. Disambiguation is non-parenthetic, per WP:NATURAL policy, and per the vast majority of animal breed article names. (I'm going on the assumption that we want to capitalize breed names at all, as we're mostly presently doing. If some object to this, I would suggest that this RM is not the place for that discussion, so please don't cloud the RM by injecting arguments relating to that other topic.) PS: If Finnish Ayrshire doesn't sound imaginable to you, please see Welsh Patagonia, Dutch West Indies, American Samoa, etc., and consider that lots of school kids with very poor geography knowledge use Wikipedia. "Dorset Down" in particular is doubly ambiguous, as it can also be interpreted as poultry down from Dorset. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 13:41, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Same response here as at your other copy-pasted comments of this sort at
Talk:Anglo-Nubian & the other RMs...
|
---|
You're also confusing a status quo ante discussion at Talk:Teeswater sheep (a discussion about whether to revert undiscussed moves in the interim before discussing the merits of the moves) with a discussion of the merits of the moves; they're unrelated. You're also evidencing serious difficulty with English spelling and capitalization, and getting proper names correct; I don't mean that in a snide way, it's just a matter of WP:COMPETENCE, as this is a nuanced discussion about spelling, proper naming, and capitalization in particular. And finally, you're sorely confusing, well, everything, as you did in earlier discussions. Flemish Giant is the breed name. No one contests this. For reasons already covered at a previous near-identical RM, this name doesn't work here, and needs to be Flemish Giant rabbit for disambiguation and recognizability reasons. That does not at all imply any of the confused ideas you suggested, which would be implied by Flemish giant rabbit. Next, your concern that the breed name itself is being misrepresented isn't correct either, which would be the case with Flemish Giant Rabbit. Oh, the case you didn't mention here but did in all the other discussions: No, it shouldn't be Flemish Giant (rabbit), per WP:NATURAL policy. RMs are usually discussed on article talk pages; wikiprojects, per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS policy, are simply editors agreeing to collaborate, nothing more. They do not have special WP:OWN authority over articles they claim within their scope. WP:RM itself lists, in a centralized location, all ongoing requested moves. There is no reason to host them on a wikiproject page; doing so would be highly irregular, and to many it would look like an attempt to actively canvass the project's editors to gang-vote. |
Of course, reliable sources (even when they mostly use just the breed name by itself when there's no ambiguity) regularly and predictably use precisely the kind of natural disambiguation as proposed here, when they need to be clear what species they mean (as WP always needs to; we can never presume that any given reader already knows that an article is about cattle or pigs or whatever before going to the article, as one might in a paper about cattle (etc.), and even those often use natural disambiguation anyway). Natural disambiguation is a natural feature of the English language (that's why it's called natural disambiguation, after all).
autochthonous races of cattle such as the Asturian mountain cattle – Ratina and Casina – and Tudanca cattle.
Herds of the endangered Casina cattle or Asturian mountain cattle are to be found in Redes
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)Aberdeen Angus cattle ... Asturian Mountain cattle, Asturian Valley cattle ... Finnish Ayrshire cattle ... Zavot cattle, Znamensk cattle ...
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |quote=
(
help)health traits in Finnish Ayrshire dairy cattle
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)clinical mastitis in Finnish Ayrshire cattle
{{
cite book}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)"Australian Yorkshire and Duroc pigs were imported.... Offspring boars sired by Australian Yorkshire and Duroc pigs.... All male offspring of imported Australian Yorkshire pigs had...
{{
cite book}}
: |editor1-first=
has generic name (
help)Ukrainian Spotted Steppe pig
breeds such as the Black Pied cattle or the Ukrainian Spotted Steppe and Russian Black Pied pigs
{{
cite book}}
: |work=
ignored (
help); Missing or empty |title=
(
help) Also on p. 150 in
1995 edition."Red Steppe cattle and Red cattle ... Black-and-White cattle ... Red Steppe cattle ... Angler cattle ... Brown Calpack cattle ... Grey Ukraine cattle ... Wolynik cattle ... the White Ukraine Steppe Pig, the Mielgoroda Steppe Pig ...
{{
cite journal}}
: |chapter=
ignored (
help); Missing or empty |title=
(
help) (It's unclear why, in a handful of cases, the authors capitalized the species name, but it's not very significant, since most sources do not. The document shows a large number of "scannos" – OCR errors – so this may explain it.){{
cite journal}}
: External link in |work=
(
help)Dorset Down sheep were exported around the world.
{{
cite book}}
: |work=
ignored (
help); Missing or empty |title=
(
help) (Source typically uses just the breed names, e.g. "Dorset Down", but regularly also uses the longer constructions (e.g. "Dorset Down sheep"), and lower-cases the species name when doing so.){{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help) (Source typically uses just the breed names, e.g. "Dorset Down", but regularly also uses the longer constructions (e.g. "Dorset Down [S|s]heep"), but usually in headings that are title-cased.)autochthonous races of cattle such as the Asturian mountain cattle – Ratina and Casina – and Tudanca cattle.Note: This source suggests that "Asturian mountain cattle" isn't a breed but a generic term for several local breeds or landraces, including the Ratina and Casina. If it's correct, the article should be at Asturian mountain cattle (lower-case "mountain"); i.e., they're a general mountain cattle type from Asturias. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 14:44, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Herds of the endangered Casina cattle or Asturian mountain cattle are to be found in Redes
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help) Note: This source indicates that "Asturian mountain cattle" and "Casina cattle" are synonymous, and that the breed is "endangered", though that term may be being used imprecisely in this case. —
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼
14:44, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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The result of the move request was: consensus to move Asturian Mountain to Asturian Mountain cattle, per the large percentage of comments in the discussion below concerning that case in particular; no consensus in the other cases, although it appears that one or more of these (esp. Dorset Down) might show consensus for a move if discussed individually or if a new discussion were initiated now that most of the associated move requests have closed. Dekimasu よ! 22:27, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
– Original names are too naturally ambiguous and will be misinterpreted by many readers as places or geographical features. New names will be consistent with Asturian Valley cattle, Forest Mountain pig, etc. See recently concluded requested moves of the same sort: Australian Pit Game -> Australian Pit Game fowl, and West African Dwarf -> West African Dwarf goat, and many other similar cases of natural ambiguity, e.g. White Park cattle, San Clemente Island goat, Black Pied Dairy cattle, Australian Game fowl, Plymouth Rock chicken, Continental Giant rabbit, Gulf Coast Native sheep, Nigerian Dwarf goat, Australian Draught horse. Note that the added species common name at the end ("cattle", "rabbit", etc.) is not capitalized, because it's not part of the formal name of the breed; the species is capitalized only in the few cases when it is invariably part of the name, as in American Quarter Horse, Norwegian Forest Cat, Bernese Mountain Dog. Disambiguation is non-parenthetic, per WP:NATURAL policy, and per the vast majority of animal breed article names. (I'm going on the assumption that we want to capitalize breed names at all, as we're mostly presently doing. If some object to this, I would suggest that this RM is not the place for that discussion, so please don't cloud the RM by injecting arguments relating to that other topic.) PS: If Finnish Ayrshire doesn't sound imaginable to you, please see Welsh Patagonia, Dutch West Indies, American Samoa, etc., and consider that lots of school kids with very poor geography knowledge use Wikipedia. "Dorset Down" in particular is doubly ambiguous, as it can also be interpreted as poultry down from Dorset. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 13:41, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Same response here as at your other copy-pasted comments of this sort at
Talk:Anglo-Nubian & the other RMs...
|
---|
You're also confusing a status quo ante discussion at Talk:Teeswater sheep (a discussion about whether to revert undiscussed moves in the interim before discussing the merits of the moves) with a discussion of the merits of the moves; they're unrelated. You're also evidencing serious difficulty with English spelling and capitalization, and getting proper names correct; I don't mean that in a snide way, it's just a matter of WP:COMPETENCE, as this is a nuanced discussion about spelling, proper naming, and capitalization in particular. And finally, you're sorely confusing, well, everything, as you did in earlier discussions. Flemish Giant is the breed name. No one contests this. For reasons already covered at a previous near-identical RM, this name doesn't work here, and needs to be Flemish Giant rabbit for disambiguation and recognizability reasons. That does not at all imply any of the confused ideas you suggested, which would be implied by Flemish giant rabbit. Next, your concern that the breed name itself is being misrepresented isn't correct either, which would be the case with Flemish Giant Rabbit. Oh, the case you didn't mention here but did in all the other discussions: No, it shouldn't be Flemish Giant (rabbit), per WP:NATURAL policy. RMs are usually discussed on article talk pages; wikiprojects, per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS policy, are simply editors agreeing to collaborate, nothing more. They do not have special WP:OWN authority over articles they claim within their scope. WP:RM itself lists, in a centralized location, all ongoing requested moves. There is no reason to host them on a wikiproject page; doing so would be highly irregular, and to many it would look like an attempt to actively canvass the project's editors to gang-vote. |
Of course, reliable sources (even when they mostly use just the breed name by itself when there's no ambiguity) regularly and predictably use precisely the kind of natural disambiguation as proposed here, when they need to be clear what species they mean (as WP always needs to; we can never presume that any given reader already knows that an article is about cattle or pigs or whatever before going to the article, as one might in a paper about cattle (etc.), and even those often use natural disambiguation anyway). Natural disambiguation is a natural feature of the English language (that's why it's called natural disambiguation, after all).
autochthonous races of cattle such as the Asturian mountain cattle – Ratina and Casina – and Tudanca cattle.
Herds of the endangered Casina cattle or Asturian mountain cattle are to be found in Redes
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)Aberdeen Angus cattle ... Asturian Mountain cattle, Asturian Valley cattle ... Finnish Ayrshire cattle ... Zavot cattle, Znamensk cattle ...
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |quote=
(
help)health traits in Finnish Ayrshire dairy cattle
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)clinical mastitis in Finnish Ayrshire cattle
{{
cite book}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)"Australian Yorkshire and Duroc pigs were imported.... Offspring boars sired by Australian Yorkshire and Duroc pigs.... All male offspring of imported Australian Yorkshire pigs had...
{{
cite book}}
: |editor1-first=
has generic name (
help)Ukrainian Spotted Steppe pig
breeds such as the Black Pied cattle or the Ukrainian Spotted Steppe and Russian Black Pied pigs
{{
cite book}}
: |work=
ignored (
help); Missing or empty |title=
(
help) Also on p. 150 in
1995 edition."Red Steppe cattle and Red cattle ... Black-and-White cattle ... Red Steppe cattle ... Angler cattle ... Brown Calpack cattle ... Grey Ukraine cattle ... Wolynik cattle ... the White Ukraine Steppe Pig, the Mielgoroda Steppe Pig ...
{{
cite journal}}
: |chapter=
ignored (
help); Missing or empty |title=
(
help) (It's unclear why, in a handful of cases, the authors capitalized the species name, but it's not very significant, since most sources do not. The document shows a large number of "scannos" – OCR errors – so this may explain it.){{
cite journal}}
: External link in |work=
(
help)Dorset Down sheep were exported around the world.
{{
cite book}}
: |work=
ignored (
help); Missing or empty |title=
(
help) (Source typically uses just the breed names, e.g. "Dorset Down", but regularly also uses the longer constructions (e.g. "Dorset Down sheep"), and lower-cases the species name when doing so.){{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help) (Source typically uses just the breed names, e.g. "Dorset Down", but regularly also uses the longer constructions (e.g. "Dorset Down [S|s]heep"), but usually in headings that are title-cased.)autochthonous races of cattle such as the Asturian mountain cattle – Ratina and Casina – and Tudanca cattle.Note: This source suggests that "Asturian mountain cattle" isn't a breed but a generic term for several local breeds or landraces, including the Ratina and Casina. If it's correct, the article should be at Asturian mountain cattle (lower-case "mountain"); i.e., they're a general mountain cattle type from Asturias. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 14:44, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Herds of the endangered Casina cattle or Asturian mountain cattle are to be found in Redes
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help) Note: This source indicates that "Asturian mountain cattle" and "Casina cattle" are synonymous, and that the breed is "endangered", though that term may be being used imprecisely in this case. —
SMcCandlish ☺
☏
¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼
14:44, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Asturian Mountain cattle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:34, 20 October 2016 (UTC)