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jil
Deleted almost all of the depletion section, and linked to wikipedia's resource depletion section instead. That page has a lot more recently sourced and more encyclopedic data Mmcdougall ( talk) 01:33, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
The article says "Based on known terrestrial reserves and growing consumption in developing countries along with excessive exploitation by developed countries, there is speculation that key elements needed for modern industry, including antimony, zinc, tin, silver, lead, indium, gold, and copper, could be exhausted on Earth within 50–60 years." However, there is no mention of the fact that metals can be recycled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.111.174.67 ( talk) 23:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
The only major problem I can see with placing rockets on asteroids to slow the revolution, even ones of high density, is that the gravity is still too tenuous to act on the body as a whole. In fact, the weak gravity would require that we come up with different method of mining all together, because shaft mining would weaken the integrity of the asteroid and as stated strip mining would create a ring or cloud of debris around the asteroid. -nick
Given the above, is the debris resulting from surface (strip) mining really an issue? To the extent that the process kicked up a lot of small particulate debris, I could see it posing a threat to the mining vehicle as it attempted to leave the asteroid to return its cargo to Earth. However, in the case of waste material generated by the extraction process, even if it can't be safely placed back into the asteroid (unlikely, perhaps), simply ejecting it away from the craft's intended departure vector should render it harmless. Then again, I suppose that in large part the danger of disrupted clouds of debris is a function of their individual particles' mass and relative velocity vs. the fragility of the vehicle. Can someone cite a source for the specific techniques proposed and their respective advantages and drawbacks? Azriphael 22:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
This article needs an inclusion in the Economics header of the qualified opinion by experts such as Rusty Schweickart and Carl Sagan on issues with space law and ethics concerning technology of moving large bodies. These objections are well publicized and have been located in the Asteroid Impact Avoidance wiki article under "Deflection technology concerns", none of which is posted by anyone I am aware of.
Twice an otherwise qualified contributor has removed these items and links. The first his objection has been there an issue of slanted opinion. No, it is not my objection, but rather these famous individuals'. As James Randi said of Sagan qualifiers on many a subject, "We may not agree, but we ignore Carl's points at our peril" -- and is therefore food for thought. Any serious effort at asteroid mining is going to have to deal with the issue, so it is ridiculous to remove it for this reason.
Second, the contributor has removed it now for listed reason in lack of reference. Do a word search on the listed wiki link article or go to the heading as the posted link directs "harm the Earth" if need be. The posted reference there to Sagan's book "Pale Blue Dot" is clear enough. If there is any issue with the inference being misapplied to Asteriod impact avoidance, we can handle that readily enough.
Sagan's issue is the development of asteroid avoidance technology to be misapplied in terrorism to asteroid impact technology. The very nature of asteroid mining is to have directed LEO or impact technology, which is considerably closer. Albeit with normally much less mass, by the very nature of economies of scale has larger the better intersection of LEO or Earth harvest.
Certainly artwork showing a towed flying mountain to LEO by some proponents is outrageous risk to the point of being fantasy. The Tuskunga event was of similar size and not too much more dV than the potentially more deadly pin point insertions being planned for asteroid mining.
I therefore contend that Sagan's objection in particular is important to be listed as an economic aspect of the Asteroid Mining wiki article and satisfactory posted in reputable internet sources, including wiki, and will persist in re-posting it until we have a neutral party arbitrate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mawrth ( talk • contribs) 19:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Ok, consider it done. But you also deleted on the links section the part to Asteroid Impact Avoidance(wiki) which was not a reference link. Perhaps merely an oversight for the convenience of a hasty, painless 'undo all'. But something on your side to consider for the future should it have been unintentional, along with better care regarding tone slurs to new or preoccupied-to-deal-with-the-fine-print users in this unpaid effort. Mawrth ( talk) 20:51, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Finished. I prefer you let me know through the talk page if this seems lacking, but will accept come what may. Mawrth ( talk) 21:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Also for your and other's knowledge, the reference link was sort of posted in the other wiki. Circular links are not allowed, but wiki links are if properly referenced on the other end, which makes sense. So I seem to read, and the distinction is important. In this case a poorly referenced wiki link to a book rather than a url, and I apologize. Mawrth ( talk) 21:37, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Looks like this was merger was actually performed some time ago. Yay. Mmcdougall ( talk) 01:34, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Keep separate - I think that this has been discussed before, though I'm in a bit of a hurry right now and don't want to go digging through the history of the talk page. I don't think that this is a particularly good plan. You might take a look at Michaelbusch's comments above about the differences in processing ore. The evidence presented here seems to me to suggest that the processes of mining on an asteroid are radically different from those needed to mine a extra-Terran planet. Given this distinction, I think it would be more sensible to include a small note about the major differences in these processes in the space mining article and to leave this information in its own space, with similar articles for extra-Terran planetary mining and any other major category that makes sense. At present, the only real argument I can see to merge the two is that the space mining article is nearly empty, while this article is considerably more extensive. However, I view that as being an issue of a shortcoming of the space mining article, not a mis-categorization of this one. Azriphael 22:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I added the following paragraph yesterday. User Michaelbusch promptly deleted it.
The idea of moving mining to space dates back at least to Russian space visionary Konstantin Tsiolkovski (1903). Robert Goddard's pioneering rocketry experiments in the 1920's were paid for by the Guggenheim foundation, with money from mining. Goddard himself envisioned the migration of industry and people to space (1918). (Source: ref. 2)
From the Asteroid mining history page: 04:54, 5 December 2006 Michaelbusch (rv. additions. History is not a bad idea, but this paragraph is not well written and is inaccurate. Citations!)
Reply: All of these statements are drawn from Ref. 2, John S. Lewis, "Mining the Sky: Untold Riches from the Asteroids, Comets, and Planets". Do you want them individually footnoted? What did you think was inaccurate?
As for the writing quality, editing would seem better than deletion.
Comments from others? Pete Tillman 18:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
PT: My intent was just to show that a mining-based foundation was supporting space exploration in the 1920's. The Guggenheims were a remarkable family. For all either of us knows, someone at the family/foundation had read Tsiolkovski....
I'll try to remember to look at the book at the library -- though I can't think of any reason Lewis would fabricate this. In any case, secondary sources are fine for WP, so long as they're cited properly. Pete Tillman 18:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I am working on a rough translation of this article so that the one in French can be more than a few sentences long. I hope noone minds.-- Freiberg, Let's talk!, contribs 19:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Asteroid Miners seem to be so common in SF that it amounts to a cliché. A history of "asteroid mining in SF" would make a nice addition to this article. -- 92.229.179.88 ( talk) 00:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The cited references on the fact that all mined metals here on earth come from asteroides do not back up the claims. The sources only claim the highly siderophile elements and here only a few were tested. Iron and nickel are not tested and not mentioned. The iron silicates make up large proportion of basalt (olivine) so it is not in the core.-- Stone ( talk) 21:14, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Would some of the elements be radioactive because they are not shielded by an atmosphere? Especially the elements on the surface to be strip mined.
If astroids are made up of loose rubble piles. With a lack of wind, water, and gravity to erode the small rubble to dust size pieces. That would mean all of the astroids material would be very sharp and highly erosive. I would assume this to be a major issue to overcome.
-- 84.213.187.140 ( talk) 14:32, 3 January 2021 (UTC)Lots of sharp things in the industrial world already. I think we will be able to handle this one.
Added a concrete example; ~2.1 ounces, 1.6 billion dollars
doe anyone knows the estimated costs of a retrieval mission ? would be nice to put some exemples ?-- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 19:47, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
There is an asteroid mining feasibility study by the Keck Institute for Space Studies ( http://www.kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf) that found the cost for a mission to return a 7 meter in diameter asteroid to lunar orbit to be $2.6 billion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.126.209 ( talk) 05:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
where does it belong ? the same strategies to avoid can be used for retrieval Asteroid-impact_avoidance#Collision_avoidance_strategies should i make a new page or put it here ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beaucouplusneutre ( talk • contribs) 09:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
This article could really use more drawings or artist's conceptions of asteroid mining. I'm adding a {{ reqphoto}} tag.--Beaucouplusneutre 18:21, 27 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beaucouplusneutre ( talk • contribs)
can we expand a little on that ? does someone knows if they are telescopes ( radio or spectro) that specifically try to detect neos presence and composition ? -- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 20:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
what do you think if we add some videos of talks abouts asteroid mining ? (sff or ssi as exemple)
http://www.asteroidmines.net/-- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 15:58, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
old video of asteroid retrieval mission (2004 ) http://www.planetarydefense.info/resources/sitemap.html# video of lee valentine the panel is also interesting. does someone have found other video like that ? idea recommended , transponder and multiple kinetic impact on several neos (for caracterization)
what i would like on wiki is a directory of video about space subjects, so i try to add some, its so much easier to understand the subject.-- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 11:37, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I am aware the phrase asteroid mining is well known and in common usage, and is what I would type if looking for this article. But would mining of other planets and moons be the same scope, would it be included in asteroid mining, if not where would it be included, if yes, should this be article be another title? extra terrestrial mining, maybe? I see we have In-situ resource utilization but that is using minerals mined in space, in space, if we took those minerals back to Earth it would not be In-situ resource utilization. But it would still be asteroid mining or extraterrestrial mining. Carlwev ( talk) 18:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
[1]. -- Gravitophoton ( talk) 09:31, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The Asteroid mining#Scarcity section seems weirdly worded, a bit like an advertisement. Especially: "Asteroid mining has the potential to provide the world with an unlimited resource of materials" Skasski ( talk) 07:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Bipartisan Legislation Promotes Commercial Space Ventures, [2], could be important for the article , some more refs are here: [3] , [4] . -- Gravitophoton ( talk) 13:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
I think a discussion of the legal framework and property rights should be added to this article. SarahLawrence Scott ( talk) 18:45, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
The article quotes "Hobe (2006) explains that the Outer Space Treaty “explicitly and implicitly prohibits only the acquisition of territorial property rights” – public or private, but extracting space resources is allowable." Show me the line in The Outer Space Treaty which does so, and I'll show you the ACTUAL line in other treaties beyond national borders, which really does prohibit private citizens directly. UNCLOS Art 137, and Moon Treaty Art 11, para. 3 -- A direct prohition on 'natural persons'? Now THAT'S how you ban property rights for private citizens. The Outer Space Treaty doesn't come close to such a ban. ( talk) 05:43, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
I recently edited the section on Scarcity in an attempt to make the prose more correct with the standard economic understanding of scarcity, which is also the understanding that is reflected in the linked article on scarcity, linked in the section introduction.
Another editor, acting in good faith, reverted my edit with the edit comment: "the point is that there is so much out there relative to what we need that resources will no longer be scarce"
So rather than have the start of a revert back-and-forth in the article mainspace, let's Discuss it here, under the standard WP:BRD process. N2e ( talk) 13:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
It seems this discussion has been more challenging than I would have thought, and consensus is eluding us. I've said my piece on this for now, and will just let that stand.
In any event, the next challenge will be to look at it again in a few weeks or months and see whether reliable sources have been found to justify this rather novel and unique usage of the term "scarcity" as applied to asteroid mining. As it stands now, it is unsourced, and I have challenged it in the article. N2e ( talk) 19:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
No, scarcity will not be eliminated. If you think that, you just don't know what scarcity means. And do note, this entire section is in a section of the article entitled "Economics"; so what the economic definition of that term is is important. Scarcity is not about how much stuff there is, it is about what stuff might be of interest to humans as economic actors, and at what opportunity cost it is useful to human endeavors, whether there is a lot of stuff, or rather less stuff, in the environs that humans frequent.
As someone smarter than me once said: "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." If we anthropomorphize economics we could say "Economics" doesn't care about your opinion; what are your facts?
Or another way to think about it is, as the economist Walter Williams taught me in graduate school: "Reality is not optional!" We might want scarcity to be eliminated. But it won't be. There is always a cost associated with every action, and picking up asteroidal resources in the vacuum of space is no exception to that reality.
But I'm not going to keep arguing with you here. Ultimately, all those unsourced claims in the article will be sourced, or they won't be. If they are not, then they will not be able to stay in the article over the long term. Let's talk again in a month or two and see if any sources have been found to support all those claims. N2e ( talk) 01:09, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Why doesn't anyone seem to mention that the most obvious reason to mine an asteroid isn't to bring it back to the surface of the Earth, but to move the material to some location either in orbit around the earth or moon where it can be utilized there. The economics are not in the availability of rare or valuable products, but simply the savings of not needing to launch say several thousand tons of steel to build space stations and ships. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.52.113.7 ( talk) 02:53, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Where does the editor who wrote this get a one month doubling time and a one kilogram mass for a self-replicating machine instead of a two year doubling time and 100 tons of manufacturing equipment made to endure the outer space environment. It seems likely WP:OR to me. - Fartherred ( talk) 21:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Disruptive links to the redirect, Economics of extraterrestrial resource extraction, have been removed from Colonization of the Moon, Colonization of Mars, and Space habitat. I have suggested to the author of the redirect, User:N2e, that the redirect itself should be deleted but he would not cooperate making that process more difficult. So instead I would like to convert the redirect into a DAB page in which readers can choose an article as they wish for information about the economics of extraterrestrial resource extraction: Colonization of the Moon#Economic development, Colonization of Mars#Economics, or Asteroid mining#Economics. I offer a link to my concept of the page at Talk:Economics of extraterrestrial resource extraction. Check it out and comment if you like. - Fartherred ( talk) 09:23, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
[5] is that a good ref? Advanceddeepspacepropeller ( talk) 08:58, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Asteroid mining/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
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There are several factors to consider. Firstly, asteroids rotate. Depending on their rotation to the sun, they can be more compact than expected. The sun forces particle debris to compact against hard surfaces. Over time, it is possible that this will have an effect not only on it's expected mass, but it's shell density as well. Secondly, the asteroid might well have had collision in the past that might have either fractured, or compacted the surface.
Hypothetically, it is more appropiate to approach such an object from a distance, fire a dart to determine crust strenght, and if possible retrieve radio signatures from the sample. Going further, the next stage would be to de-spin the object, in order to help with the possible attachment of a sampling device. This would probably involve the use of high powered pitons, penetrating the surface, enabling larger equipment to approach the surface in relative safety. More than likely though, in the early stages of AM, the asteroid would stil be spinning, and a high powered needle retractable would be used to just sample the object. The main aim of such an expensive mission would be to enable earth bound buisnesses to form an understanding of the potential value of their rocky clientele. And of course, it would have to be done repeatedly. |
Last edited at 19:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 08:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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The last sentence in the "Purpose" reads: "Why extraterrestrials would have resorted to asteroid mining in near proximity to earth, with its readily available resources, has not been explained." Any space creatures (i.e. anyone who has gotten off of a planet and into space and has acquired the materials/skills/technology to survive there permanently) are going to be loathe to land on a planet. The energy and material costs are just too high. And they might not be extraterrestrials. Humans have been around long enough that we could have developed a space faring civilization in the distant past. You might think that if such a thing had happened there would be some evidence of it, but remember, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Pergelator 50.43.36.155 ( talk) 22:18, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
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The article begins "Minerals can be mined from an asteroid or spent comet, then used in space for construction materials or taken back to Earth."
Asteroid mining has never been done, as admitted at the end of the same paragraph:
"Due to the high cost of spaceflight, inaccurate identification of asteroids suitable for mining, and ore extraction challenges, terrestrial mining remains the only means of raw mineral acquisition today."
Hence I propose changing the first sentence to "Minerals would be mined from an asteroid or spent comet, then used in space for construction materials or taken back to Earth." Tomtul2 ( talk) 05:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
The first two paragraphs of the Proposed Mining Projects section read almost like an ad for the company Planetary Resources. It seems to have an implicit bias towards the company, is severely out of date, and in cites primary sources. The later paragraphs have some similar issues. I propose heavily reducing this section until it can be rewritten in a way that is more in-line with WP ( Wikipedia Policy).
Some examples:
By definition it is the nature of this section to be speculative - which makes it difficult to write whilst staying within WP. I do see the merit of such a section, it certainly is exciting for a reader to see how the first steps towards missions such as these are being taken today. That said, I believe such a section should be rewritten to be shorter, more conservative, and less outdated.
If other editors have any input I would like to hear it, perhaps I have been too harsh in my assessment. For now I have simply added an "outdated" tag. PhysicsSean ( talk) 21:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
I just removed a {{ harvnb}} reference to Lewis 1993, that was supporting that a 1 km asteroid wouldmhave 2bn metric tons of iron-nickel ore. There is no Lewis 1993 work in the article, and the other John Lewis (1992/1997/8) works don't mention this detail. Also elsewhere it seems he said that 2bn tons was the total weight of a 1km asteroid, not just the iron-nickel ore (this is mentioned by others, but I can't find where Lewis said it). - LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆ transmissions∆ ° co-ords° 11:22, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The main article doesn't mention alternative methods of extraction and refinement of materials mined from asteroids. Using a large, highly focused beam of concentrated sunlight would be able to superheat surface materials and cause them evaporate into space, opening a path to extraction of elements of interest from deeper in the body of the asteroids. Similarly, concentrated sunlight would provide the power needed to operate gigantic mass spectrometers, where a beam of evaporites from the asteroid could be ionized and then separated by mass into different material streams, even down to individual isotopes of the same element- and then directed to some container for capture. A system of such machines around the asteroid could provide power to operate the mining continuously. 2601:89:C701:9190:757E:A76E:2F:340E ( talk) 00:16, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
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Mining of Ceres was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 4 February 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Asteroid mining. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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jil
Deleted almost all of the depletion section, and linked to wikipedia's resource depletion section instead. That page has a lot more recently sourced and more encyclopedic data Mmcdougall ( talk) 01:33, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
The article says "Based on known terrestrial reserves and growing consumption in developing countries along with excessive exploitation by developed countries, there is speculation that key elements needed for modern industry, including antimony, zinc, tin, silver, lead, indium, gold, and copper, could be exhausted on Earth within 50–60 years." However, there is no mention of the fact that metals can be recycled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.111.174.67 ( talk) 23:57, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
The only major problem I can see with placing rockets on asteroids to slow the revolution, even ones of high density, is that the gravity is still too tenuous to act on the body as a whole. In fact, the weak gravity would require that we come up with different method of mining all together, because shaft mining would weaken the integrity of the asteroid and as stated strip mining would create a ring or cloud of debris around the asteroid. -nick
Given the above, is the debris resulting from surface (strip) mining really an issue? To the extent that the process kicked up a lot of small particulate debris, I could see it posing a threat to the mining vehicle as it attempted to leave the asteroid to return its cargo to Earth. However, in the case of waste material generated by the extraction process, even if it can't be safely placed back into the asteroid (unlikely, perhaps), simply ejecting it away from the craft's intended departure vector should render it harmless. Then again, I suppose that in large part the danger of disrupted clouds of debris is a function of their individual particles' mass and relative velocity vs. the fragility of the vehicle. Can someone cite a source for the specific techniques proposed and their respective advantages and drawbacks? Azriphael 22:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
This article needs an inclusion in the Economics header of the qualified opinion by experts such as Rusty Schweickart and Carl Sagan on issues with space law and ethics concerning technology of moving large bodies. These objections are well publicized and have been located in the Asteroid Impact Avoidance wiki article under "Deflection technology concerns", none of which is posted by anyone I am aware of.
Twice an otherwise qualified contributor has removed these items and links. The first his objection has been there an issue of slanted opinion. No, it is not my objection, but rather these famous individuals'. As James Randi said of Sagan qualifiers on many a subject, "We may not agree, but we ignore Carl's points at our peril" -- and is therefore food for thought. Any serious effort at asteroid mining is going to have to deal with the issue, so it is ridiculous to remove it for this reason.
Second, the contributor has removed it now for listed reason in lack of reference. Do a word search on the listed wiki link article or go to the heading as the posted link directs "harm the Earth" if need be. The posted reference there to Sagan's book "Pale Blue Dot" is clear enough. If there is any issue with the inference being misapplied to Asteriod impact avoidance, we can handle that readily enough.
Sagan's issue is the development of asteroid avoidance technology to be misapplied in terrorism to asteroid impact technology. The very nature of asteroid mining is to have directed LEO or impact technology, which is considerably closer. Albeit with normally much less mass, by the very nature of economies of scale has larger the better intersection of LEO or Earth harvest.
Certainly artwork showing a towed flying mountain to LEO by some proponents is outrageous risk to the point of being fantasy. The Tuskunga event was of similar size and not too much more dV than the potentially more deadly pin point insertions being planned for asteroid mining.
I therefore contend that Sagan's objection in particular is important to be listed as an economic aspect of the Asteroid Mining wiki article and satisfactory posted in reputable internet sources, including wiki, and will persist in re-posting it until we have a neutral party arbitrate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mawrth ( talk • contribs) 19:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Ok, consider it done. But you also deleted on the links section the part to Asteroid Impact Avoidance(wiki) which was not a reference link. Perhaps merely an oversight for the convenience of a hasty, painless 'undo all'. But something on your side to consider for the future should it have been unintentional, along with better care regarding tone slurs to new or preoccupied-to-deal-with-the-fine-print users in this unpaid effort. Mawrth ( talk) 20:51, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Finished. I prefer you let me know through the talk page if this seems lacking, but will accept come what may. Mawrth ( talk) 21:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Also for your and other's knowledge, the reference link was sort of posted in the other wiki. Circular links are not allowed, but wiki links are if properly referenced on the other end, which makes sense. So I seem to read, and the distinction is important. In this case a poorly referenced wiki link to a book rather than a url, and I apologize. Mawrth ( talk) 21:37, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Looks like this was merger was actually performed some time ago. Yay. Mmcdougall ( talk) 01:34, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Keep separate - I think that this has been discussed before, though I'm in a bit of a hurry right now and don't want to go digging through the history of the talk page. I don't think that this is a particularly good plan. You might take a look at Michaelbusch's comments above about the differences in processing ore. The evidence presented here seems to me to suggest that the processes of mining on an asteroid are radically different from those needed to mine a extra-Terran planet. Given this distinction, I think it would be more sensible to include a small note about the major differences in these processes in the space mining article and to leave this information in its own space, with similar articles for extra-Terran planetary mining and any other major category that makes sense. At present, the only real argument I can see to merge the two is that the space mining article is nearly empty, while this article is considerably more extensive. However, I view that as being an issue of a shortcoming of the space mining article, not a mis-categorization of this one. Azriphael 22:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I added the following paragraph yesterday. User Michaelbusch promptly deleted it.
The idea of moving mining to space dates back at least to Russian space visionary Konstantin Tsiolkovski (1903). Robert Goddard's pioneering rocketry experiments in the 1920's were paid for by the Guggenheim foundation, with money from mining. Goddard himself envisioned the migration of industry and people to space (1918). (Source: ref. 2)
From the Asteroid mining history page: 04:54, 5 December 2006 Michaelbusch (rv. additions. History is not a bad idea, but this paragraph is not well written and is inaccurate. Citations!)
Reply: All of these statements are drawn from Ref. 2, John S. Lewis, "Mining the Sky: Untold Riches from the Asteroids, Comets, and Planets". Do you want them individually footnoted? What did you think was inaccurate?
As for the writing quality, editing would seem better than deletion.
Comments from others? Pete Tillman 18:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
PT: My intent was just to show that a mining-based foundation was supporting space exploration in the 1920's. The Guggenheims were a remarkable family. For all either of us knows, someone at the family/foundation had read Tsiolkovski....
I'll try to remember to look at the book at the library -- though I can't think of any reason Lewis would fabricate this. In any case, secondary sources are fine for WP, so long as they're cited properly. Pete Tillman 18:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I am working on a rough translation of this article so that the one in French can be more than a few sentences long. I hope noone minds.-- Freiberg, Let's talk!, contribs 19:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Asteroid Miners seem to be so common in SF that it amounts to a cliché. A history of "asteroid mining in SF" would make a nice addition to this article. -- 92.229.179.88 ( talk) 00:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The cited references on the fact that all mined metals here on earth come from asteroides do not back up the claims. The sources only claim the highly siderophile elements and here only a few were tested. Iron and nickel are not tested and not mentioned. The iron silicates make up large proportion of basalt (olivine) so it is not in the core.-- Stone ( talk) 21:14, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Would some of the elements be radioactive because they are not shielded by an atmosphere? Especially the elements on the surface to be strip mined.
If astroids are made up of loose rubble piles. With a lack of wind, water, and gravity to erode the small rubble to dust size pieces. That would mean all of the astroids material would be very sharp and highly erosive. I would assume this to be a major issue to overcome.
-- 84.213.187.140 ( talk) 14:32, 3 January 2021 (UTC)Lots of sharp things in the industrial world already. I think we will be able to handle this one.
Added a concrete example; ~2.1 ounces, 1.6 billion dollars
doe anyone knows the estimated costs of a retrieval mission ? would be nice to put some exemples ?-- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 19:47, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
There is an asteroid mining feasibility study by the Keck Institute for Space Studies ( http://www.kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf) that found the cost for a mission to return a 7 meter in diameter asteroid to lunar orbit to be $2.6 billion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.126.209 ( talk) 05:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
where does it belong ? the same strategies to avoid can be used for retrieval Asteroid-impact_avoidance#Collision_avoidance_strategies should i make a new page or put it here ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beaucouplusneutre ( talk • contribs) 09:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
This article could really use more drawings or artist's conceptions of asteroid mining. I'm adding a {{ reqphoto}} tag.--Beaucouplusneutre 18:21, 27 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beaucouplusneutre ( talk • contribs)
can we expand a little on that ? does someone knows if they are telescopes ( radio or spectro) that specifically try to detect neos presence and composition ? -- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 20:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
what do you think if we add some videos of talks abouts asteroid mining ? (sff or ssi as exemple)
http://www.asteroidmines.net/-- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 15:58, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
old video of asteroid retrieval mission (2004 ) http://www.planetarydefense.info/resources/sitemap.html# video of lee valentine the panel is also interesting. does someone have found other video like that ? idea recommended , transponder and multiple kinetic impact on several neos (for caracterization)
what i would like on wiki is a directory of video about space subjects, so i try to add some, its so much easier to understand the subject.-- Beaucouplusneutre ( talk) 11:37, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
I am aware the phrase asteroid mining is well known and in common usage, and is what I would type if looking for this article. But would mining of other planets and moons be the same scope, would it be included in asteroid mining, if not where would it be included, if yes, should this be article be another title? extra terrestrial mining, maybe? I see we have In-situ resource utilization but that is using minerals mined in space, in space, if we took those minerals back to Earth it would not be In-situ resource utilization. But it would still be asteroid mining or extraterrestrial mining. Carlwev ( talk) 18:23, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
[1]. -- Gravitophoton ( talk) 09:31, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The Asteroid mining#Scarcity section seems weirdly worded, a bit like an advertisement. Especially: "Asteroid mining has the potential to provide the world with an unlimited resource of materials" Skasski ( talk) 07:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Bipartisan Legislation Promotes Commercial Space Ventures, [2], could be important for the article , some more refs are here: [3] , [4] . -- Gravitophoton ( talk) 13:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
I think a discussion of the legal framework and property rights should be added to this article. SarahLawrence Scott ( talk) 18:45, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
The article quotes "Hobe (2006) explains that the Outer Space Treaty “explicitly and implicitly prohibits only the acquisition of territorial property rights” – public or private, but extracting space resources is allowable." Show me the line in The Outer Space Treaty which does so, and I'll show you the ACTUAL line in other treaties beyond national borders, which really does prohibit private citizens directly. UNCLOS Art 137, and Moon Treaty Art 11, para. 3 -- A direct prohition on 'natural persons'? Now THAT'S how you ban property rights for private citizens. The Outer Space Treaty doesn't come close to such a ban. ( talk) 05:43, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
I recently edited the section on Scarcity in an attempt to make the prose more correct with the standard economic understanding of scarcity, which is also the understanding that is reflected in the linked article on scarcity, linked in the section introduction.
Another editor, acting in good faith, reverted my edit with the edit comment: "the point is that there is so much out there relative to what we need that resources will no longer be scarce"
So rather than have the start of a revert back-and-forth in the article mainspace, let's Discuss it here, under the standard WP:BRD process. N2e ( talk) 13:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
It seems this discussion has been more challenging than I would have thought, and consensus is eluding us. I've said my piece on this for now, and will just let that stand.
In any event, the next challenge will be to look at it again in a few weeks or months and see whether reliable sources have been found to justify this rather novel and unique usage of the term "scarcity" as applied to asteroid mining. As it stands now, it is unsourced, and I have challenged it in the article. N2e ( talk) 19:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
No, scarcity will not be eliminated. If you think that, you just don't know what scarcity means. And do note, this entire section is in a section of the article entitled "Economics"; so what the economic definition of that term is is important. Scarcity is not about how much stuff there is, it is about what stuff might be of interest to humans as economic actors, and at what opportunity cost it is useful to human endeavors, whether there is a lot of stuff, or rather less stuff, in the environs that humans frequent.
As someone smarter than me once said: "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts." If we anthropomorphize economics we could say "Economics" doesn't care about your opinion; what are your facts?
Or another way to think about it is, as the economist Walter Williams taught me in graduate school: "Reality is not optional!" We might want scarcity to be eliminated. But it won't be. There is always a cost associated with every action, and picking up asteroidal resources in the vacuum of space is no exception to that reality.
But I'm not going to keep arguing with you here. Ultimately, all those unsourced claims in the article will be sourced, or they won't be. If they are not, then they will not be able to stay in the article over the long term. Let's talk again in a month or two and see if any sources have been found to support all those claims. N2e ( talk) 01:09, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Why doesn't anyone seem to mention that the most obvious reason to mine an asteroid isn't to bring it back to the surface of the Earth, but to move the material to some location either in orbit around the earth or moon where it can be utilized there. The economics are not in the availability of rare or valuable products, but simply the savings of not needing to launch say several thousand tons of steel to build space stations and ships. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.52.113.7 ( talk) 02:53, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Where does the editor who wrote this get a one month doubling time and a one kilogram mass for a self-replicating machine instead of a two year doubling time and 100 tons of manufacturing equipment made to endure the outer space environment. It seems likely WP:OR to me. - Fartherred ( talk) 21:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Disruptive links to the redirect, Economics of extraterrestrial resource extraction, have been removed from Colonization of the Moon, Colonization of Mars, and Space habitat. I have suggested to the author of the redirect, User:N2e, that the redirect itself should be deleted but he would not cooperate making that process more difficult. So instead I would like to convert the redirect into a DAB page in which readers can choose an article as they wish for information about the economics of extraterrestrial resource extraction: Colonization of the Moon#Economic development, Colonization of Mars#Economics, or Asteroid mining#Economics. I offer a link to my concept of the page at Talk:Economics of extraterrestrial resource extraction. Check it out and comment if you like. - Fartherred ( talk) 09:23, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
[5] is that a good ref? Advanceddeepspacepropeller ( talk) 08:58, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Asteroid mining/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
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There are several factors to consider. Firstly, asteroids rotate. Depending on their rotation to the sun, they can be more compact than expected. The sun forces particle debris to compact against hard surfaces. Over time, it is possible that this will have an effect not only on it's expected mass, but it's shell density as well. Secondly, the asteroid might well have had collision in the past that might have either fractured, or compacted the surface.
Hypothetically, it is more appropiate to approach such an object from a distance, fire a dart to determine crust strenght, and if possible retrieve radio signatures from the sample. Going further, the next stage would be to de-spin the object, in order to help with the possible attachment of a sampling device. This would probably involve the use of high powered pitons, penetrating the surface, enabling larger equipment to approach the surface in relative safety. More than likely though, in the early stages of AM, the asteroid would stil be spinning, and a high powered needle retractable would be used to just sample the object. The main aim of such an expensive mission would be to enable earth bound buisnesses to form an understanding of the potential value of their rocky clientele. And of course, it would have to be done repeatedly. |
Last edited at 19:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 08:28, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
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The last sentence in the "Purpose" reads: "Why extraterrestrials would have resorted to asteroid mining in near proximity to earth, with its readily available resources, has not been explained." Any space creatures (i.e. anyone who has gotten off of a planet and into space and has acquired the materials/skills/technology to survive there permanently) are going to be loathe to land on a planet. The energy and material costs are just too high. And they might not be extraterrestrials. Humans have been around long enough that we could have developed a space faring civilization in the distant past. You might think that if such a thing had happened there would be some evidence of it, but remember, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Pergelator 50.43.36.155 ( talk) 22:18, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
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The article begins "Minerals can be mined from an asteroid or spent comet, then used in space for construction materials or taken back to Earth."
Asteroid mining has never been done, as admitted at the end of the same paragraph:
"Due to the high cost of spaceflight, inaccurate identification of asteroids suitable for mining, and ore extraction challenges, terrestrial mining remains the only means of raw mineral acquisition today."
Hence I propose changing the first sentence to "Minerals would be mined from an asteroid or spent comet, then used in space for construction materials or taken back to Earth." Tomtul2 ( talk) 05:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
The first two paragraphs of the Proposed Mining Projects section read almost like an ad for the company Planetary Resources. It seems to have an implicit bias towards the company, is severely out of date, and in cites primary sources. The later paragraphs have some similar issues. I propose heavily reducing this section until it can be rewritten in a way that is more in-line with WP ( Wikipedia Policy).
Some examples:
By definition it is the nature of this section to be speculative - which makes it difficult to write whilst staying within WP. I do see the merit of such a section, it certainly is exciting for a reader to see how the first steps towards missions such as these are being taken today. That said, I believe such a section should be rewritten to be shorter, more conservative, and less outdated.
If other editors have any input I would like to hear it, perhaps I have been too harsh in my assessment. For now I have simply added an "outdated" tag. PhysicsSean ( talk) 21:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
I just removed a {{ harvnb}} reference to Lewis 1993, that was supporting that a 1 km asteroid wouldmhave 2bn metric tons of iron-nickel ore. There is no Lewis 1993 work in the article, and the other John Lewis (1992/1997/8) works don't mention this detail. Also elsewhere it seems he said that 2bn tons was the total weight of a 1km asteroid, not just the iron-nickel ore (this is mentioned by others, but I can't find where Lewis said it). - LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆ transmissions∆ ° co-ords° 11:22, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The main article doesn't mention alternative methods of extraction and refinement of materials mined from asteroids. Using a large, highly focused beam of concentrated sunlight would be able to superheat surface materials and cause them evaporate into space, opening a path to extraction of elements of interest from deeper in the body of the asteroids. Similarly, concentrated sunlight would provide the power needed to operate gigantic mass spectrometers, where a beam of evaporites from the asteroid could be ionized and then separated by mass into different material streams, even down to individual isotopes of the same element- and then directed to some container for capture. A system of such machines around the asteroid could provide power to operate the mining continuously. 2601:89:C701:9190:757E:A76E:2F:340E ( talk) 00:16, 13 August 2022 (UTC)