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Gosh, this poor thing has gone downhill. Orphaned editing marks, mysterious links. Let me do some technical corrections, I hope I do not modify the content. Paul, in Saudi 16:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Holy Mary, this thing is in bad shape. I've read this article before, I don't remember it being this broken! I started doing a section edit but quickly realized I was trying to rescue something that probably bears a rewrite. Rhombus 02:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I just did a rewrite, adding some stuff from the page on Jan Kusic. Hopefully this helps a bit. Tiger Khan 19:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
It would be interesting to see a citation supporting this article's statement that there has been "much speculation by historians" regarding the role of Himmler's physicians in Heydrich's treatment.--PLB 22:39, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
As Heydrich's open-topped Mercedes-Benz neared the pair, Gabčík is said to have stepped in front of the vehicle, trying to open fire, but his Sten gun jammed.
There has recently been a drama-documentary on the UK History channel about Operation Anthropoid which included actual Nazi photographs of the real "crime scene". One of the pictures clearly shows Gabčík's Mark II Sten gun lying on the road where he threw it away, minus its butt-stock. This raises the intriguing possibility that rather than jamming the real reason for Gabčík being unable to open fire was that perhaps due to an error in timing (or Heydrich's car arriving early) he was still assembling the knocked-down gun when Heydrich's car came round the corner. You can fire a Sten Mark II without the butt-stock fitted but it's very awkward, as there's no pistol grip like on the later Mark IV and V and it's unlikely anyone would want to try to do so in circumstances such as an attack on Heydrich. It's also unlikely that Gabčík would have attempted to dismantle a useless weapon afterwards before throwing it away, as the two SOE agents were being attacked by both a wounded Heydrich (who subsequently collapsed) and Klein, his driver, who pursued Gabčík some distance before Gabčík shot and killed him with a pistol. Ian Dunster 14:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
This was excised from the article on May 27, 2007. I was actually seeking more information on the particular subject.
Group29 13:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
> To commemorate the heroes of the Czech and Slovak resistance <
This is NPOV, because those assassin guys brought only misery to the population due to extremely massive german reprisals. If they fought soldier-like (e.g. russian partisans blowing up german military trains) they could be rightly called heroes, but targeted assasinations are inherently morally low and repulsive and create respone in kind. Just like a ninja is never a samurai, there can be no honour or heroism in being an assassin. 91.83.15.197 ( talk) 22:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't the purpose of "Anthropoid" to provoke widespread reprisals against the general Czech population? Under Heydrich's rule the resident Czech underground had been largely destroyed and his "carrot and stick" approach had resulted in increased productivity -- to the benefit of the German war economy. Assassinating Heydrich destroyed all that he had accomplished by provoking widespread reprisals against the Czech people. Tough luck for the Czech people, but evidently the English and the Czech government-in-exile considered them expendable in the larger scheme of things. ( 66.162.249.170 ( talk) 08:22, 16 May 2011 (UTC))
Perseus71, I reverted your edit because it contained weasel words, but more importantly because it resulted in a disjointed, nonsensical article. You didn't spellcheck, and your edit did not mesh with the older one. The earlier version was superior. It would have been too much work for me to fix it. I suggest you try again, more carefully. Happy editing, Rodney420 ( talk) 14:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't see why the group needs its own article, when the only operation they carried out is this one. All the info from that article could easily be merged into this one. - TheMightyQuill ( talk) 23:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
|Just because this group only carried out one mission doesn't mean that it should automatically be merged. Plus, they did not carry out only one operation, read under operations. Kb3mlmsk ( talk) 21:34, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
The subject is "Operation Anthropoid". The category is crimes. Was this assassination a crime? Obviously to the Nazis, this would have been a crime - but was it a crime under international law, the laws of war, or the laws of Britain at the time? If not, then describing this operation as a crime constitutes writing from the Nazi point of view. Since the article presents no evidence that this was a crime from the allies or world (neutral) point of view, I think we should remove this category from this article and from the biographical articles of the two assassins. Rklawton ( talk) 17:28, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
From a neutral point of view killing another human is murder and murder is a crime. If we are observing the Wikipedia ideal of neutrality and objectivity then killing Heydrich was a crime. "We" can justify killing Heydrich (from the Allied perspective), just as the Nazis justified killing the people they killed, but if we are maintaining the Wikipedia ideal of neutrality the assassination of Heydrich was a crime -- just as the assassination of Churchill or Roosevelt or Stalin or Eisenhower or Montgomery would have been a crime. ( 66.162.249.170 ( talk) 08:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC))
First of all, this section contains two theories - so it's not appropriate to name this section after only one. Next, we don't usually entertain fringe theories, so this section really should go away. Why, as noted by the source, there is no evidence. Second, no allegations have been made - just a fringe theory, so calling this section an "allegation" gives it credibility that it doesn't deserve. Rklawton ( talk) 20:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the theory did get mention in a scientific journal, I'd settle for a brief mention of the theory and that no evidence was found to support it. Rklawton ( talk) 21:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Just a small point, Curda wasn't arrested he voluntarily went to the Gestapo and offered information. The Germans knew he was genuine as he could identify the briefcase used in the attack as opposed to other cases the germans had hidden it in.
His main motivation was the money, As after the war when he had been arrested he was asked why he betrayed his colleagues and he replied "Wouldn't you for a million marks".
He was hung in 1946 completely unrepentant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.86.71.241 ( talk) 13:36, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello all, I've just noticed that there's one passage in the article that goes something like this: "Heydrich's sudden collapse...matches the symptoms of BTX poisoning", while all the rest of that section talks about botulinum poisoning. This is potentially confusing, because BTX generally refers not to botulinum toxin, but to a mixture of benzene, toluene and xylene (which is also toxic, but generally incapable of causing such delayed symptoms upon one-time acute exposure). So which is it? 67.170.215.166 ( talk) 02:09, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
The caption reads "The restored car in which Heydrich was mortally wounded" but on the biography page for Heydrich the same picture is captioned "A similar car to the one in which Heydrich was mortally wounded". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.119.151 ( talk) 20:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
This article states Curda got 1 million Reichsmark whereas his individual article states 0.5 million. Which is correct?
Google books:
So, "killing" is most used in literature.
Difference is, according to Professor Solis: "Assassinations and targeted killings are very different acts". The law of armed conflict: international humanitarian law in war and former Legal Advisor to the State Department Judge Sofaer wrote on the subject:"When people call a targeted killing an "assassination", they are attempting to preclude debate on the merits of the action. Assassination is widely defined as murder,.."
Of course, extermination of RH was decided by sovereign government, in case of war, against legitimate target and was done by soldiers. It was not assassination, but targeted killing.-- Yopie ( talk) 21:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)-- Yopie ( talk) 21:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
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18:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.191.157 ( talk)
"Shrapnels" is incorrect; "shrapnel" is one of those English words like "moose" that is the same in both singular and plural. "Pieces of shrapnel" would be correct. Julietdeltalima (talk) 22:11, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm assuming that "Na Bulovce Hospital" = " cs:Nemocnice Na Bulovce" = Bulovka Hospital and editing the article accordingly. -- The Anome ( talk) 17:22, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Neither Valčík nor Opálka were present to the assassination. This is only a myth. Some time before the assassination gestapo shot and killed a member the resistance group Three Kings Václav Morávek and gained a picture of Valčík from his jacket. Even though Valčík's identity was unknown he was intensively wanted by the gestapo. -- 94.112.58.39 ( talk) 09:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
There are several paragraphs scattered throughout the article that have no citations whatsoever. Specifically, in the following sections:
Furthermore, the "Portrayals in literature and popular culture" section has only one reference. — howcheng { chat} 08:22, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
References/Literature Can someone add the book "Seven Men at Daybreak" by Alan Burgess (©1960) republished ISBN 0553235087 9780553235081 AFAIK the first mass-market non-fiction account of the assassination and it's aftermath. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:59C8:2128:5F00:12F:EFE3:113E:6364 ( talk) 17:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi, Honzula. I don't know why File:Anton Diffring (Operation Daybreak, 1975) wounded Heydrich.jpg, a film screenshot of an actor portraying Reinhard Heydrich in the film Operation Daybreak, is used in the article about the actual event, Operation Anthropoid. The usage in the article is invalid because the article is not about a film. I'm unsure whether it belongs in the other article about the film, but the DVD cover of the film is adequate enough, isn't it? -- George Ho ( talk) 22:36, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
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If you doubt his general reputation for efficiency, you might try a Google search of "Heydrich efficient" and peruse the results. For a specific source, look at this one; within it, you will find the statement, "So ruthless and efficient were his methods that he earned nicknames like ‘The Butcher of Prague, The Hangman, and the Blond Beast." I honestly don't see the need to provide a citation for his efficiency in the article. WolfmanSF ( talk) 01:15, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
The section on the Moravec family needs some clarification regarding who is related to whom in what way. For example, how are any of them related to Frantisek Moravec? Ishboyfay ( talk) 23:30, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Ondřej Vaňásek: The sentence "Jsme Češi! Nikdy se nevzdáme se, slyšíte? Nikdy!" is a direct quote from the reference below at https://www.lidovky.cz/relax/lide/jsme-cesi-nikdy-se-nevzdame-volali-parasutiste-pred-smrti.A120525_183216_lide_mc . The phrase "Jsme Češi! Nikdy se nevzdáme, slyšíte? Nikdy!" does not appear in the source. I don't speak Czech, so I don't know if that's good grammar, but we can't change a quotation. What am I missing? SchreiberBike | ⌨ 21:29, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I seem to recall that the erasure of the towns Lidice and Ležáky was previously mentioned in this but is not mentioned at all, except in very vague terms. Wikipedia has a separate article on Lidice and there should be a link here. 184.63.25.57 ( talk) 13:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)John Cork
Hello, I have some photos about the assassination (a 1942 German police investigation file with amazing photos of the car and site) and if a wikipedia editor can have a look and maybe enrich the page with those interesting photos. Please contact me. Dorit agmon ( talk) 09:05, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Assassination of Reinhard Heydrich article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Assassination of Reinhard Heydrich is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on May 27, 2006, May 27, 2007, May 27, 2009, May 27, 2010, and May 27, 2016. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
Gosh, this poor thing has gone downhill. Orphaned editing marks, mysterious links. Let me do some technical corrections, I hope I do not modify the content. Paul, in Saudi 16:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Holy Mary, this thing is in bad shape. I've read this article before, I don't remember it being this broken! I started doing a section edit but quickly realized I was trying to rescue something that probably bears a rewrite. Rhombus 02:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I just did a rewrite, adding some stuff from the page on Jan Kusic. Hopefully this helps a bit. Tiger Khan 19:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
It would be interesting to see a citation supporting this article's statement that there has been "much speculation by historians" regarding the role of Himmler's physicians in Heydrich's treatment.--PLB 22:39, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
As Heydrich's open-topped Mercedes-Benz neared the pair, Gabčík is said to have stepped in front of the vehicle, trying to open fire, but his Sten gun jammed.
There has recently been a drama-documentary on the UK History channel about Operation Anthropoid which included actual Nazi photographs of the real "crime scene". One of the pictures clearly shows Gabčík's Mark II Sten gun lying on the road where he threw it away, minus its butt-stock. This raises the intriguing possibility that rather than jamming the real reason for Gabčík being unable to open fire was that perhaps due to an error in timing (or Heydrich's car arriving early) he was still assembling the knocked-down gun when Heydrich's car came round the corner. You can fire a Sten Mark II without the butt-stock fitted but it's very awkward, as there's no pistol grip like on the later Mark IV and V and it's unlikely anyone would want to try to do so in circumstances such as an attack on Heydrich. It's also unlikely that Gabčík would have attempted to dismantle a useless weapon afterwards before throwing it away, as the two SOE agents were being attacked by both a wounded Heydrich (who subsequently collapsed) and Klein, his driver, who pursued Gabčík some distance before Gabčík shot and killed him with a pistol. Ian Dunster 14:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
This was excised from the article on May 27, 2007. I was actually seeking more information on the particular subject.
Group29 13:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
> To commemorate the heroes of the Czech and Slovak resistance <
This is NPOV, because those assassin guys brought only misery to the population due to extremely massive german reprisals. If they fought soldier-like (e.g. russian partisans blowing up german military trains) they could be rightly called heroes, but targeted assasinations are inherently morally low and repulsive and create respone in kind. Just like a ninja is never a samurai, there can be no honour or heroism in being an assassin. 91.83.15.197 ( talk) 22:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't the purpose of "Anthropoid" to provoke widespread reprisals against the general Czech population? Under Heydrich's rule the resident Czech underground had been largely destroyed and his "carrot and stick" approach had resulted in increased productivity -- to the benefit of the German war economy. Assassinating Heydrich destroyed all that he had accomplished by provoking widespread reprisals against the Czech people. Tough luck for the Czech people, but evidently the English and the Czech government-in-exile considered them expendable in the larger scheme of things. ( 66.162.249.170 ( talk) 08:22, 16 May 2011 (UTC))
Perseus71, I reverted your edit because it contained weasel words, but more importantly because it resulted in a disjointed, nonsensical article. You didn't spellcheck, and your edit did not mesh with the older one. The earlier version was superior. It would have been too much work for me to fix it. I suggest you try again, more carefully. Happy editing, Rodney420 ( talk) 14:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't see why the group needs its own article, when the only operation they carried out is this one. All the info from that article could easily be merged into this one. - TheMightyQuill ( talk) 23:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
|Just because this group only carried out one mission doesn't mean that it should automatically be merged. Plus, they did not carry out only one operation, read under operations. Kb3mlmsk ( talk) 21:34, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
The subject is "Operation Anthropoid". The category is crimes. Was this assassination a crime? Obviously to the Nazis, this would have been a crime - but was it a crime under international law, the laws of war, or the laws of Britain at the time? If not, then describing this operation as a crime constitutes writing from the Nazi point of view. Since the article presents no evidence that this was a crime from the allies or world (neutral) point of view, I think we should remove this category from this article and from the biographical articles of the two assassins. Rklawton ( talk) 17:28, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
From a neutral point of view killing another human is murder and murder is a crime. If we are observing the Wikipedia ideal of neutrality and objectivity then killing Heydrich was a crime. "We" can justify killing Heydrich (from the Allied perspective), just as the Nazis justified killing the people they killed, but if we are maintaining the Wikipedia ideal of neutrality the assassination of Heydrich was a crime -- just as the assassination of Churchill or Roosevelt or Stalin or Eisenhower or Montgomery would have been a crime. ( 66.162.249.170 ( talk) 08:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC))
First of all, this section contains two theories - so it's not appropriate to name this section after only one. Next, we don't usually entertain fringe theories, so this section really should go away. Why, as noted by the source, there is no evidence. Second, no allegations have been made - just a fringe theory, so calling this section an "allegation" gives it credibility that it doesn't deserve. Rklawton ( talk) 20:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the theory did get mention in a scientific journal, I'd settle for a brief mention of the theory and that no evidence was found to support it. Rklawton ( talk) 21:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Just a small point, Curda wasn't arrested he voluntarily went to the Gestapo and offered information. The Germans knew he was genuine as he could identify the briefcase used in the attack as opposed to other cases the germans had hidden it in.
His main motivation was the money, As after the war when he had been arrested he was asked why he betrayed his colleagues and he replied "Wouldn't you for a million marks".
He was hung in 1946 completely unrepentant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.86.71.241 ( talk) 13:36, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello all, I've just noticed that there's one passage in the article that goes something like this: "Heydrich's sudden collapse...matches the symptoms of BTX poisoning", while all the rest of that section talks about botulinum poisoning. This is potentially confusing, because BTX generally refers not to botulinum toxin, but to a mixture of benzene, toluene and xylene (which is also toxic, but generally incapable of causing such delayed symptoms upon one-time acute exposure). So which is it? 67.170.215.166 ( talk) 02:09, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
The caption reads "The restored car in which Heydrich was mortally wounded" but on the biography page for Heydrich the same picture is captioned "A similar car to the one in which Heydrich was mortally wounded". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.119.151 ( talk) 20:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
This article states Curda got 1 million Reichsmark whereas his individual article states 0.5 million. Which is correct?
Google books:
So, "killing" is most used in literature.
Difference is, according to Professor Solis: "Assassinations and targeted killings are very different acts". The law of armed conflict: international humanitarian law in war and former Legal Advisor to the State Department Judge Sofaer wrote on the subject:"When people call a targeted killing an "assassination", they are attempting to preclude debate on the merits of the action. Assassination is widely defined as murder,.."
Of course, extermination of RH was decided by sovereign government, in case of war, against legitimate target and was done by soldiers. It was not assassination, but targeted killing.-- Yopie ( talk) 21:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)-- Yopie ( talk) 21:46, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:The place where Reinhard Heydrich was killed.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests June 2011
|
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 11:07, 20 July 2011 (UTC) |
18:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.191.157 ( talk)
"Shrapnels" is incorrect; "shrapnel" is one of those English words like "moose" that is the same in both singular and plural. "Pieces of shrapnel" would be correct. Julietdeltalima (talk) 22:11, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm assuming that "Na Bulovce Hospital" = " cs:Nemocnice Na Bulovce" = Bulovka Hospital and editing the article accordingly. -- The Anome ( talk) 17:22, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Neither Valčík nor Opálka were present to the assassination. This is only a myth. Some time before the assassination gestapo shot and killed a member the resistance group Three Kings Václav Morávek and gained a picture of Valčík from his jacket. Even though Valčík's identity was unknown he was intensively wanted by the gestapo. -- 94.112.58.39 ( talk) 09:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
There are several paragraphs scattered throughout the article that have no citations whatsoever. Specifically, in the following sections:
Furthermore, the "Portrayals in literature and popular culture" section has only one reference. — howcheng { chat} 08:22, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
References/Literature Can someone add the book "Seven Men at Daybreak" by Alan Burgess (©1960) republished ISBN 0553235087 9780553235081 AFAIK the first mass-market non-fiction account of the assassination and it's aftermath. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:59C8:2128:5F00:12F:EFE3:113E:6364 ( talk) 17:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi, Honzula. I don't know why File:Anton Diffring (Operation Daybreak, 1975) wounded Heydrich.jpg, a film screenshot of an actor portraying Reinhard Heydrich in the film Operation Daybreak, is used in the article about the actual event, Operation Anthropoid. The usage in the article is invalid because the article is not about a film. I'm unsure whether it belongs in the other article about the film, but the DVD cover of the film is adequate enough, isn't it? -- George Ho ( talk) 22:36, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Operation Anthropoid. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:54, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
If you doubt his general reputation for efficiency, you might try a Google search of "Heydrich efficient" and peruse the results. For a specific source, look at this one; within it, you will find the statement, "So ruthless and efficient were his methods that he earned nicknames like ‘The Butcher of Prague, The Hangman, and the Blond Beast." I honestly don't see the need to provide a citation for his efficiency in the article. WolfmanSF ( talk) 01:15, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
The section on the Moravec family needs some clarification regarding who is related to whom in what way. For example, how are any of them related to Frantisek Moravec? Ishboyfay ( talk) 23:30, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:24, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Ondřej Vaňásek: The sentence "Jsme Češi! Nikdy se nevzdáme se, slyšíte? Nikdy!" is a direct quote from the reference below at https://www.lidovky.cz/relax/lide/jsme-cesi-nikdy-se-nevzdame-volali-parasutiste-pred-smrti.A120525_183216_lide_mc . The phrase "Jsme Češi! Nikdy se nevzdáme, slyšíte? Nikdy!" does not appear in the source. I don't speak Czech, so I don't know if that's good grammar, but we can't change a quotation. What am I missing? SchreiberBike | ⌨ 21:29, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I seem to recall that the erasure of the towns Lidice and Ležáky was previously mentioned in this but is not mentioned at all, except in very vague terms. Wikipedia has a separate article on Lidice and there should be a link here. 184.63.25.57 ( talk) 13:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)John Cork
Hello, I have some photos about the assassination (a 1942 German police investigation file with amazing photos of the car and site) and if a wikipedia editor can have a look and maybe enrich the page with those interesting photos. Please contact me. Dorit agmon ( talk) 09:05, 23 September 2022 (UTC)