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Stone Mountain School was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 02 February 2014 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Aspen Education Group. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
I want to call attention to my recent edits to the article. My name on Wikipedia is "Frog One" but my real name is Tom Croke. I was quoted in the article by someone else. The quotation was valid when posted but things have changed and it came to my attention that out of date information was being used to damage schools and programs that have been sold and have no connection with Aspen or its present owners, CRC and Bain Capital. Others are welcome to jump in on this and edit my edit. On one hand I was uncomfortable editing a reference to me. On the other hand the out of date information should not be used to damage the innocent. Frog one ( talk) 17:14, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
I have been dismayed by the edit of this article that turned it into an advertisement for Aspen. This creates the appearance that the article has been revised to its present status by someone on Aspen's payroll. The excuse stated in discussion at the time that happened was that previous comments inserted under controversy were not "encyclopedic." However the sales brochure we have now is not encyclopedic. The statement under the controversy statement implying that the objections to Aspen are essentially the same as at other programs in this field is blatantly misleanding. I agree that the person using the word "detainees" is also far from NPOV on the other side.
The present article misstates that Jim Dredge is president. Actually Jim "resigned" (Aspen's code word for fired with severance pay) effective October 2009 after he tried to clean up some of the problems and sought a squeaky clean ethical platform. Apparently the managers at CRC Health Group and Bain Capital did not see things that way.
I'm not planning to make changes in the article itself, and get into an editing war with the Aspen minion who put this in place. But the criticisms of marketing practices, closing of New Leaf North Carolina abandoning kids in midstream, program license actions for cause by the state of Oregon (resulting in closing of two programs), etc. clearly raise issues about Aspen programs that someone is trying to hide.
I hope the Wikipedia brass will take a look at the editor who placed this article in its present form. It is transparently an Aspen inside job.
Although my four tilde signature won't show it, I am an educational consultant, Tom Croke. You can find me at www.familylight.com. Keeping track of this stuff is my career. Rmagick is correct in objecting to NPOV issues where people use words like "detainees" but the bias on the other side is just as blatant.
Frog one ( talk) 14:55, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
The controversy section doesn't identify any controversies (two sides of an argument). It is primarily criticism and may warrant deletion on wp:NPOV grounds. -- Cdw ♥'s ♪ ♫( talk) 05:33, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
When i see IP addresses from denmark, that resolve to a host that happens to host a well known anti-therapeutic school wiki, you are fooling no-one. Ditto when I see IP addresses from the Phillipines, where a certain Aspen program is located. Snertking ( talk) 22:45, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
this entire article calls out to be rewritten, with all poorly or incorrectly sourced material removed. it also seems to be primarily an attack article.
if anyone has actual sourced critique not from original research industry marketing and survivor testimony, this would make it a better article. thanks, happy editing! SkidMountTubularFrame ( talk) 17:32, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
what we need under the criticism section is a list of the lawsuits and complaints against aspen schools that have been covered in mainstream periodicals.
I have found a few, which i have enumerated in the talk page for NATSAP. Time permitting i will be adding them in here. They are listed at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:National_Association_of_Therapeutic_Schools_and_Programs
Snertking ( talk) 00:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Barring any objection here, I'd like to add some of the stats and claims made in the recent salon article at: http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/dark_side_of_a_bain_success/singleton/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.3.62.19 ( talk) 01:57, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Also, CRC was bought by Acadia Healthcare in 2014: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/crc-health-group-to-be-acquired-by-acadia-healthcare-280852262.html JES1981 ( talk) 09:49, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
I have reread the article as it is now written and has been edited since I last looked. My impression is that the article is now fairly balanced. The history appears to be accurate (although it now includes some things I did not previously know). I think more about Eliot Sainer's role in develpment of this company and early association with College Hospital could be included, but that is not about balance and fairness. I like the paragraph on controversy as it is now written. I don't want to tamper with the part that uses my name (Tom Croke) but I am not asking for Kudos here -- although as of this reading I am quoted accurately. Frog one ( talk) 02:51, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Excuse me, i don't really understand how this all works. Sorry. But I have to say something. Aspen has had at least five known "client" deaths since Bain acquired the company. There's plenty of articles about it. http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/dark_side_of_a_bain_success/singleton/
Again, my apologies if i posted where i shouldn't. my name is Brett Schnaper,(brett@l/m/i/.\n\e\t). Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.247.31 ( talk) 13:12, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Sorry if I'm in the wrong place here, but I was wondering if any of you noticed the links in this page are mostly dead? I've no clue how wikipedia works as of now, but can someone clean this up a little? 99.230.28.141 ( talk) 03:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
I have to say that thanks to the work of DPoC Aspen group is almost no more. Here are some updates:
Look at their website. Covergaard ( talk) 13:40, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
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Looking for help to trim and edit this article free of unsourced, poorly sourced, and deceptively sourced material. Please discuss additions after checking the source with strict wiki policy Thanks kids, and hapoy editing! SkidMountTubularFrame ( talk) 16:36, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
A recent edit reverted all changes that have been made to this article between January 2022 and March 2023. I'm concerned that many of those changes were necessary, so I'd like to go through it and look at the issues with article with fresh eyes. Two things stand out - a very heavy reliance on court documents, often in regard to complaints by and about living people. This goes against WP:BLPPRIMARY. The second is a heavy reliance on questionable and self published sources. There's a lot to do, but to explain my edits to date:
I'll make sure to explain any other significant changes here as I go, and, as always, I welcome discussion. - Bilby ( talk) 12:34, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Aspen Education Group article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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|
Stone Mountain School was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 02 February 2014 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Aspen Education Group. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
I want to call attention to my recent edits to the article. My name on Wikipedia is "Frog One" but my real name is Tom Croke. I was quoted in the article by someone else. The quotation was valid when posted but things have changed and it came to my attention that out of date information was being used to damage schools and programs that have been sold and have no connection with Aspen or its present owners, CRC and Bain Capital. Others are welcome to jump in on this and edit my edit. On one hand I was uncomfortable editing a reference to me. On the other hand the out of date information should not be used to damage the innocent. Frog one ( talk) 17:14, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
I have been dismayed by the edit of this article that turned it into an advertisement for Aspen. This creates the appearance that the article has been revised to its present status by someone on Aspen's payroll. The excuse stated in discussion at the time that happened was that previous comments inserted under controversy were not "encyclopedic." However the sales brochure we have now is not encyclopedic. The statement under the controversy statement implying that the objections to Aspen are essentially the same as at other programs in this field is blatantly misleanding. I agree that the person using the word "detainees" is also far from NPOV on the other side.
The present article misstates that Jim Dredge is president. Actually Jim "resigned" (Aspen's code word for fired with severance pay) effective October 2009 after he tried to clean up some of the problems and sought a squeaky clean ethical platform. Apparently the managers at CRC Health Group and Bain Capital did not see things that way.
I'm not planning to make changes in the article itself, and get into an editing war with the Aspen minion who put this in place. But the criticisms of marketing practices, closing of New Leaf North Carolina abandoning kids in midstream, program license actions for cause by the state of Oregon (resulting in closing of two programs), etc. clearly raise issues about Aspen programs that someone is trying to hide.
I hope the Wikipedia brass will take a look at the editor who placed this article in its present form. It is transparently an Aspen inside job.
Although my four tilde signature won't show it, I am an educational consultant, Tom Croke. You can find me at www.familylight.com. Keeping track of this stuff is my career. Rmagick is correct in objecting to NPOV issues where people use words like "detainees" but the bias on the other side is just as blatant.
Frog one ( talk) 14:55, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
The controversy section doesn't identify any controversies (two sides of an argument). It is primarily criticism and may warrant deletion on wp:NPOV grounds. -- Cdw ♥'s ♪ ♫( talk) 05:33, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
When i see IP addresses from denmark, that resolve to a host that happens to host a well known anti-therapeutic school wiki, you are fooling no-one. Ditto when I see IP addresses from the Phillipines, where a certain Aspen program is located. Snertking ( talk) 22:45, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
this entire article calls out to be rewritten, with all poorly or incorrectly sourced material removed. it also seems to be primarily an attack article.
if anyone has actual sourced critique not from original research industry marketing and survivor testimony, this would make it a better article. thanks, happy editing! SkidMountTubularFrame ( talk) 17:32, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
what we need under the criticism section is a list of the lawsuits and complaints against aspen schools that have been covered in mainstream periodicals.
I have found a few, which i have enumerated in the talk page for NATSAP. Time permitting i will be adding them in here. They are listed at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:National_Association_of_Therapeutic_Schools_and_Programs
Snertking ( talk) 00:06, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Barring any objection here, I'd like to add some of the stats and claims made in the recent salon article at: http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/dark_side_of_a_bain_success/singleton/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.3.62.19 ( talk) 01:57, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
Also, CRC was bought by Acadia Healthcare in 2014: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/crc-health-group-to-be-acquired-by-acadia-healthcare-280852262.html JES1981 ( talk) 09:49, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
I have reread the article as it is now written and has been edited since I last looked. My impression is that the article is now fairly balanced. The history appears to be accurate (although it now includes some things I did not previously know). I think more about Eliot Sainer's role in develpment of this company and early association with College Hospital could be included, but that is not about balance and fairness. I like the paragraph on controversy as it is now written. I don't want to tamper with the part that uses my name (Tom Croke) but I am not asking for Kudos here -- although as of this reading I am quoted accurately. Frog one ( talk) 02:51, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Excuse me, i don't really understand how this all works. Sorry. But I have to say something. Aspen has had at least five known "client" deaths since Bain acquired the company. There's plenty of articles about it. http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/dark_side_of_a_bain_success/singleton/
Again, my apologies if i posted where i shouldn't. my name is Brett Schnaper,(brett@l/m/i/.\n\e\t). Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.247.31 ( talk) 13:12, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Sorry if I'm in the wrong place here, but I was wondering if any of you noticed the links in this page are mostly dead? I've no clue how wikipedia works as of now, but can someone clean this up a little? 99.230.28.141 ( talk) 03:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
I have to say that thanks to the work of DPoC Aspen group is almost no more. Here are some updates:
Look at their website. Covergaard ( talk) 13:40, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
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Looking for help to trim and edit this article free of unsourced, poorly sourced, and deceptively sourced material. Please discuss additions after checking the source with strict wiki policy Thanks kids, and hapoy editing! SkidMountTubularFrame ( talk) 16:36, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
A recent edit reverted all changes that have been made to this article between January 2022 and March 2023. I'm concerned that many of those changes were necessary, so I'd like to go through it and look at the issues with article with fresh eyes. Two things stand out - a very heavy reliance on court documents, often in regard to complaints by and about living people. This goes against WP:BLPPRIMARY. The second is a heavy reliance on questionable and self published sources. There's a lot to do, but to explain my edits to date:
I'll make sure to explain any other significant changes here as I go, and, as always, I welcome discussion. - Bilby ( talk) 12:34, 27 March 2023 (UTC)