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Epidemiologists from the School of Medicine at The University of Texas Health Science Center San Antonio reported data showing that diet soft drink consumption is associated with increased waist circumference in humans, and a second study that found aspartame raised fasting glucose (blood sugar) in diabetes-prone mice.
I didn't notice any sources used from the San Diego meeting and Texas is not found anywhere on the article page so these studies are not referenced in your article. Here are some more source links:
Zad
68
19:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Vascular is not mentioned anywhere in the article so this must not have been discussed.
This 2012 study links diet soda to increased chance (60%) of a vascular event.
^ "Aspartame Information replies to the New York Times". Aspartame Information Service. 2006-02-16. I clicked on it but no longer links to the article.
I updated it with this link which I think I the same article but without having seen the original I can't say for sure. http://www.aspartame.info/news/aspartame_information_replies_to_the_new_york_times_(distributed_with_the_daily_telegraph).asp
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.121.63.193 (
talk)
22:43, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Fowler studied the relationship between oral exposure to aspartame and fasting glucose and insulin levels in 40 diabetes-prone mice. Aspartame is an artificial sweetener widely used in diet sodas and other products.
One group of the mice ate chow to which both aspartame and corn oil were added; the other group ate chow with the corn oil added but not the aspartame. After three months on this high-fat diet, the mice in the aspartame group showed elevated fasting glucose levels but equal or diminished insulin levels, consistent with early declines in pancreatic beta-cell function. The difference in insulin levels between the groups was not statistically significant. Beta cells make insulin, the hormone that lowers blood sugar after a meal. Imbalance ultimately leads to diabetes.
These results suggest that heavy aspartame exposure might potentially directly contribute to increased blood glucose levels, and thus contribute to the associations observed between diet soda consumption and the risk of diabetes in humans, Dr. Fernandes said.
Secondary sources for glucose increase from aspartame usage:
Zad
68
19:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
(My emphasis.)If the findings involve phase I or phase II clinical trials, small studies, studies that did not directly measure clinically important results, laboratory work with animal models, or isolated cells or tissue, then these findings are probably only indirectly relevant to understanding human health; in these cases, they should be entirely omitted.
Zad
68
19:52, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
19:45, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Alatari, honestly, let's cut to the chase - there's no chance of a consensus forming to support anything even close to what you're proposing using the kinds of sources you're bringing, and if I were you I'd think my editing time would probably be better off spent on something else. ill-considered comment struck
Zad
68
21:06, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
21:16, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
A preponderance of reliable source state that aspartame is safe; wikipedia reports what reliable sources say. a13ean ( talk) 16:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I am very sorry but I disagree with your statement that A preponderance of reliable sources say aspartame is safe. have you thought of being slightly cynical of industry sponsored studies.
Claustro123 (
talk)
15:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Does not work.
Claustro123 ( talk) 04:37, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
What function does this paragraph serve? It is over 15 years old and does not seem to meet the high standards of Wikipedia. Claustro123 ( talk) 18:44, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Claustro123 about the Internet Conspiracy. I would be inclined to omit the paragraph on the internet conspiracy or at least cut it in half. The tone is not that of an encyclopedia. The question of whether there were unlikely allegations made by anonymous people doesn't speak to the substance of the question of whether aspartame does or does not have health effects. Bad information on the internet is certainly not the only reason there have been questions about aspartame, as the profusion of scientific papers on the subject attests. Eperotao ( talk) 06:02, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
In particular, I have edited the paragraph on Health and Appetite, adding reputable sources that give a different perspective. The paragraph would have been hard for a general audience to read. It was certainly one-sided, repeatedly citing the same source that is behind a paywall and whose abstract did not support what was said in that paragraph. The paragraph also asserted that there was little research on aspartame and appetite. In fact, a quick search of google scholar reveals large numbers of papers on this topic over many years. I don't have a dog in the aspartame fight, but this was such a blatant untruth, I have begun to suspect that this discussion is biased. Eperotao ( talk) 06:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I have been reading more of this Talk page with some surprise. I have looked at the section of WP:MEDRS that discusses animals studies. It directs us not to suggest that animal studies are definitive. That's easy. Most human studies are not by themselves definitive either. WP:MEDRS does not rule out citation of animal studies. I am puzzled by the insistence on authoritative but secondary review articles combined with the presence of reference 7, which is neither. Eperotao ( talk) 07:43, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
if i posted Paragraph like the Internet Conspiracy one saying aspartame is dangerous it would be erased in milliseconds. Claustro123 ( talk) 15:35, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
This is a fascinating example of intense bias within a Wikipedia entry. Animal studies are acceptable according to the rules. I would say that an ensconced group of editors obviously has more time to defend a particular point of view position exhaustively than someone who wanders by looking for credible references to both sides of the controversy, which are not here. If this were a controversy about whether to be treated with antibiotics for a deadly infection, I could understand the conservatism over sources and position. But aspartame has no known health benefits. It's not a medical treatment or even a food in the usual biological sense. And as for it being an effective weight loss approach, the best that can be said is that diet drinks generally have not prevented an ongoing epidemic of obesity that began in the 1980s. Why resist with such vigor including the less aspartame-friendly evidence (on aspartame and other sweeteners, artificial or natural)? I can only think of one answer. Eperotao ( talk) 17:38, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I take it you do not see the Internet conspiracy paragraph as spurious material Claustro123 ( talk) 19:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Claustro123 and Eperotao -- if you want to introduce new material, here is what you need to do. Read the most recent and best secondary and tertiary MEDRS sources you can find - ideally ones that review studies in humans. Create content based on them. Post it in the article directly, or if you want to be more community-friendly (which is a savvy thing to do on a page like this one where wingnuts fly by and vandalize the page relentlessly with BS based on the ubiquitous internet conspiracy materials), then you could post it here in Talk first. Please note that I did NOT say, think about what you want to write and then find MEDRS 2ndary or 3-ary sources of studies in humans to back it up. That is backwards. But whatever content you bring to wikipedia, especially to a contested page like this, use only the best sources -- ones that even an ideological opponent of whatever content you want to post, cannot impugn, and state the content neutrally, again so whatever opponents there might be cannot complain. And best source = most recent MEDRS 2ndary or 3-ary reviews of studies in humans, or for toxicity content, most recent MEDRS 2ndary or 3-ary reviews of tox studies by toxicologists. If, after you have read the best sources that you can find, you should discover that there is nothing there to support the idea that aspartame promotes weight gain/metabolic syndrome, perhaps you might want to rethink your position on that. You may also find that the best sources do not provide a black and white answer on that issue. If the best sources present an ambiguous picture, then you can create wikipedia content representing the ambiguity. The absolute worst thing you can do - the one that wastes everybody's time including yours -- is to complain on the Talk page that your opponents are being too strict - especially when your sources are not the best ones available. This is a community of minds - there are challenges here as well as kumbayahs. Rise to the challenge and bring the best sources. Then everybody wins. Also, please do not be sloppy and bring sources about "diet soda" - especially sources that do not describe what sweetener was in the diet soda used in the study. That kind of source will get kicked out right away, and rightly so. This is a page about aspartame, not about "diet soda". Jytdog ( talk) 19:59, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
We should go back to the basics of WP: If we have a preponderance of studies in peer-reviewed journals stating X, then who are we to challenge X unless we can source reliable sources that challenge X. I think the POV tag should be removed from this article unless someone can provide some reliable sources that challenge the statements in the article. Angryapathy ( talk) 17:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Okay. I have Magnuson. Her lengthy 2007 review for the D.C.-based Burdock Group was sponsored by Ajinomoto, the world's largest manufacturer of aspartame. Magnuson's review is mainly focused on short term toxicity, carcinogenic potential and, somewhat, neurotoxic effects. Of the 100 pages, less than one page refers to the question of any possible connection between aspertame and metabolic syndrome. The only relevant study cited by Dr. Magnuson was de la Hunty's review, also funded by Ajinomoto, the world's largest manufacturer of aspartame, with, according to Wikipedia, 40% market share. Neither article addresses aspartame and waist size, a known risk factor for heart disease and type 2 diabetes. Research on the posited connection between diet sodas and metabolic syndrome is well covered by Medscape, a website of SECONDARY medical news for doctors. Eperotao ( talk) 19:25, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I do not know what a noticeboard is. My interest is in the integeraty of Wikipedia. This article seems to depart from the high standards you usually adheare to. You should not spread roomers as you do in The Internet Conspiricy paragraph. You should not ignore conflict of interest as you do above. Wikipedia is the world's refference standard. It should be above reproach. Please try to uphold the standards that have made you a major force on the Internet. Claustro123 ( talk) 18:02, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
As I understand it, the "aspartame controversy" concerns the initial approval of aspartame, and lingering concerns about whether or not it is actually safe. Is that what everybody thinks? I am asking this, because 2 recent visitors in the Talk sections above, seem focused on the issue of whether there is a relationship between aspartame and weight gain. Now, I don't think the question about weight gain was or is part of the initial controversy - instead, that seems to be a new thing. And I am not sure that the potential relationship between aspartame and weight gain is a "controversy" per se. Another thing - there is a section in the article on "Weight change and hunger." I propose that the "Weight change and hunger" content should get moved out of this article and put in the main aspartame article and that this article should remain focused on the initial controversy over aspartame's toxicity/safety. What do you think? Jytdog ( talk) 18:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
I oppose this change of name because the article is about the controversy, not just claims about health effects. TFD ( talk) 01:29, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Jinkinson's effort to change the name was respectable under WP:BRD, so too the reversion. Now that we are in the "D" phase, I too oppose the name change to Aspartame and Health as the controversy is broader than that. Also the accompanying edit note "This new title is more accurate, and now we can include all the info about how allegedly bad for you it is." is wrong-headed - there are no MEDRS sources supporting content that aspartame is "allegedly bad for you" so it is not clear what "info" about that, will ever be in WIkipedia except a) in the context of some specific controversy, scientific (e.g. Ramazzini studies) or regulatory, as is already discussed in this article; or b) in the health effects section of the aspartame article itself, where such claims are simply shot down using MEDRS sources. Jytdog ( talk) 08:49, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
From a professor etc. It might not add anything new, but at least it´s recent. [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk • contribs)
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/3496.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.104.67.222 ( talk) 17:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
This article is on my watchlist and the revert that was made seemed to make the article extremely non-neutral and weasily so I reverted. After coming back and reviewing the sources more closely realized the wording is appropriate. I made two small changes:
Sorry for my first inaccurate revert. Alatari ( talk) 21:08, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
You should add something about the Panara restaurant chain announcing that they will not be serving anything with aspartame and many other substances after the end of 2016. 131.109.36.10 ( talk) 16:52, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
They have removed many additives from their foods because of the perception that these additives are not healthy. Most likely this perception comes from the fact that many other countries are healthier than the USA. ( We are number 35.) Cuba for instance has a healthier population than the USA. Aspartame is one of the additives they will remove. This fact belongs in this article. Quione ( talk) 23:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
Is it significant enough to mention? A source. Zero Serenity ( talk - contributions) 19:30, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
This article promotes the viewpoint that any existing scientific study of aspartame that does not proclaim it to be completely safe is bogus (outside of those individuals possessing a rare condition), and the result of "conspiracy theory." Citing a couple references, in a widely studied and controversial commercial product, that make these sort of proclamations, is a rather dishonest tactic.
Anyone can google the subject to verify how slanted this article is, and verify the growing weight of peer-reviewed scientific evidence for broadly harmful effects of aspartame. The only issue is whether or not Wikipedia is to retain relevance as an information source, or simply be regarded as an outlet for disinformation by vested interests. Wikibearwithme ( talk) 20:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
There is a useful list of peer-reviewed literature (title, pub. date) on aspartame at this link: http://www.mpwhi.com/peer_reviewed_research.htm. These articles are further linked at that webpage.
18 Nov 2014 - Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2006;15(9). September 2006 - Consumption Of Aspartame-Containing Beverages And Incidence Of Hematopoietic And Brain Malignancies [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Artificial Sweetener Consumption And Urinary Tract Tumors In Cordoba, Argentina [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Aspartame Administered In Feed, Beginning Prenatally Through Life Span, Induces Cancers Of The Liver And Lung In Male Swiss Mice [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Associations Of Sugar And Artificially Sweetened Soda With Albuminuria And Kidney Function Decline In Women [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Consumption Of Artificial Sweetener – And Sugar-Containing Soda And Rick Of Lymphoma And Leukemia In Men And Women [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Cytotoxic Effects Of Methanol , Formaldehyde, And Formate On Disassociated Rat Thymocytes: A Possibility Of Aspartame Toxicity [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Effective Of long Term Intake Of Aspartame On Antioxidant Defense Status In Liver [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Effect Of Chronic Exposure To Aspartame On Oxidative Stress In The Brain Of Albino Rats [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Formaldehyde Derived From Dietary Aspartame Binds To Tissue Components In Vivo [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 21 Feb 2013 - Vascular Health Sciences Medical Advisor: I'll Say It Again, Stay Away From Aspartame [Vascular Health Sciences Medical Advisor Dr. DeSilva points to landmark research results to reiterate the dangers of aspartame 18 Feb 2013 - The Effect Of Aspartame Administration On Oncogene And Suppressor Gene Expressions [2007 Hungarian study] 18 Feb 2013 - 'Diet' Drinks Associated With Increased Risk Of Type II Diabetes 18 Feb 2013 - Alcohol Mixed With Diet Drinks May Increase Intoxication More Than Alcohol And Regular Drinks 18 Feb 2013 - Are Diet Soft Drinks Bad For You? 28 Jan 2013 - Diet Soda, Aspartame Shown To Destroy Kidney Function 15 Jan 2013 - No Safe Dose Of Aspartame [Remember that Dr. Adrian Gross, FDA scientist and toxicologist, told Congress, Senate, 8/1/85 that there is no safe dose of aspartame because it causes cancer. It can never be proven safe. He said FDA should have been able to even set an allowable daily intake. - Dr. B. Martini, D.Hum.] 15 Jan 2013 - India: Chronic Exposure To Aspartame Results In Oxidative Stress In Brains Of Albino Rats As Well As Methanol Formation 8/31/12 Aspartame = Corporate Espionage 03 Jan 2013 - Studies On The Effects Of Aspartame On Memory And Oxidative Stress In Brain Of Mice - Egypt 26 Nov 2012 - Consumption Of Artificial Sweetener And Sugar Containing Soda And The Risk Of Lymphoma And Leukemia In Men And Women (Includes Study (Aspartame) And Commentaries) 13 July 2012 - Gender Dimorphism in Aspartame-Induced Impairment Of Spatial Cognition And Insulin Sensitivity [Here is a new study proving that aspartame affects in utero the spatial cognition of male mice. Isn't it interesting that almost 100% of independent, scientific peer reviewed research for over 3 decades show the problems that aspartame cause, and that it is unsafe. I wonder how the manufacturer will try to rebut this one which is what they do with each damning study. The FDA will simply ignore it as they have done with all the damning studies. When is enough enough?! – Dr. B. Martini, D.Hum.] [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 12 Oct 2011 - Early Aspartame Study Proved Cancers - Call For Data #2 12 Oct 2011 - EFSA Call For Data: #3 28 Sep 2011 - Aspartame - Call For Data Independent Scientific Peer Reviewed Research 28 Sep 2011 - Aspartame-Induced Thrombocytopenia [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 26 Sep 2011 - Recent Independent Aspartame Research Results & News (1998 - 2007) 23 Sep 2011 - Adverse Effects Of Aspartame: Current Bibliographies In Medicine, National Institutes Of Health, Health And Human Resources (167 Citations) 23 Sep 2011 - Survey Of Aspartame Studies: Correlation Of Outcome And Funding Sources 16 Sep 2011 - Adverse Reactions To Aspartame: Double-Blind Challenge In Patients From A Vulnerable Population 16 Sep 2011 - Aspartame And Psychiatric Disorders 16 Sep 2011 - Report On Aspartame And Children 09 Sep 2011 - Aspartame Studies: Includes Industry And Independent 27 Aug 2011 - Recent Peer-Reviewed Studies Critical Of Aspartame (Methanol, Formaldehyde, Formic Acid) 13 Aug 2011 - Scientific Peer Reviewed Independent Studies On Aspartame
Wikibearwithme ( talk) 23:33, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
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ASPARTAME: Please read and cite Dr Monte's book "While Science Sleeps a sweetener kills". It is a real eye opener. He has done some pretty convincing research and study pointing to chronic low level methanol exposure as a factor in the diseases of modern civilization. Humans, unlike other animals, cannot metabolize methanol. Methanol is highly toxic to humans in quite small doses. Methanol breaks down to, among other things, the very reactive and destructive formaldehyde. [of course formaldehyde does not appear in human tissues because it reacts too fast.] Aspartame can be up to 11% methanol. Methanol is also found in other foods and non food things in our modern day world. This is a rather simplistic look at a highly complicated subject but you really have overlooked or pushed aside some rather profound work in your write up of Aspartame. Elvie Fornshell — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elvie Fornshell ( talk • contribs) 02:06, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
If he says that humans can't metabolize methanol, he's talking out of his rear. Humans can metabolize methanol, just not very well. Fruit contains small quantities of (naturally occurring) methanol as well, so if we couldn't metabolize methanol at all, we'd be dead fairly quickly. Stui ( talk) 18:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
The Washington Post article linked to debunk Methanol content does no such thing. Also the FDA rep David Hattan quoted on Snopes: [2] says:
Second, the claim that aspartame ingestion results in the production of methanol, formaldehyde and formate: These claims are factual. In the gastrointestinal tract aspartame is hydrolyzed to one of its component materials, methanol, as well as the two amino acids, phenylalanine and aspartic acid. This methanol is taken up by the cells of the body and metabolized first to formaldehyde and then to formate.
216.168.105.37 ( talk) 17:36, 23 November 2016 (UTC) (this is User:MtB I just can't prove it right now).
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Perhaps you might be interested in this?
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/20045
Quione ( talk) 16:30, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
This is a really important link. My vote goes for putting it on the webpage. Thanks.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Claustro123 ( talk • contribs) 18:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
see:
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/189/28/E929
Claustro123 ( talk) 17:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Without altering the intent, I reworked this section significantly to:
♦ improve source material referencing; restructure in-line citations for clarity;
♦ improve syntax, diction, and grammar for readability/aesthetics/neutral voice (i.e. – although possible/probable, concluding the ERF refused to cooperate is not justifiable on the record while their ineptness is on many counts);
♦ changed the content to better reflect the issues (e.g. – overcrowding of the animals was interpretable as an ethical issue not an elementary method breech and confound; "possibly carcinogenic infections" was too short, abstract and insufficient to convey the problem; etc...).
More can be done here and in several other pages as the ERF and CSPI continue to campaign on remarkably poor research. Interestingly, a newer investigation, including information from an on-site NTP inspection, found that with the exception of the lymphoma/leukemia bioassays (Soffritti's work regarding sucralose, aspartame, etc...) the ERF adheres to best-practices and produces reliable research ( Gift et al. 2013) . I find parenthetical citations vastly more aesthetically pleasing and compositionally functional. Please let me know if I have over-stepped by making the changes contemporaneous to this post.
Gift, Jeffrey S.; Caldwell, Jane C.; Jinot, Jennifer; Evans, Marina V.; Cote, Ila; Vandenberg, John J. (2013).
"Scientific Considerations for Evaluating Cancer Bioassays Conducted by the Ramazzini Institute". Environmental Health Perspectives. 121 (11–12): 1253–1263.
doi:
10.1289/ehp.1306661.
ISSN
0091-6765. Retrieved 2019-01-16. {{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)
BiosocialPolymath ( talk) 08:10, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
I do a great deal of technical research and writing, and appreciate the caution about primary sourcing. However, research done and communicated well, by truly professional principles not attached to the outcomes, often within themselves meet the exception in Wikipedia:MEDREV: at para 1 , " Primary sources may be presented together with secondary sources." That is, the primary source will conduct a scathing critique of itself with reference to extant work and standards within the field. In case you missed it I noted these were exceptional, as such they are worthy of being included amongst other rigorous sources.
BiosocialPolymath ( talk) 08:42, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that some of the references are now dead links and some of the references are not as robust as they should be around the Nancy Merkle email hoax. It isn't a quick fix, so I just wanted potential editors to know that I am starting an edit that will span sections but focus on the Merkle email.
Tpanagos ( talk) 13:18, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
Epidemiologists from the School of Medicine at The University of Texas Health Science Center San Antonio reported data showing that diet soft drink consumption is associated with increased waist circumference in humans, and a second study that found aspartame raised fasting glucose (blood sugar) in diabetes-prone mice.
I didn't notice any sources used from the San Diego meeting and Texas is not found anywhere on the article page so these studies are not referenced in your article. Here are some more source links:
Zad
68
19:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Vascular is not mentioned anywhere in the article so this must not have been discussed.
This 2012 study links diet soda to increased chance (60%) of a vascular event.
^ "Aspartame Information replies to the New York Times". Aspartame Information Service. 2006-02-16. I clicked on it but no longer links to the article.
I updated it with this link which I think I the same article but without having seen the original I can't say for sure. http://www.aspartame.info/news/aspartame_information_replies_to_the_new_york_times_(distributed_with_the_daily_telegraph).asp
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.121.63.193 (
talk)
22:43, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Fowler studied the relationship between oral exposure to aspartame and fasting glucose and insulin levels in 40 diabetes-prone mice. Aspartame is an artificial sweetener widely used in diet sodas and other products.
One group of the mice ate chow to which both aspartame and corn oil were added; the other group ate chow with the corn oil added but not the aspartame. After three months on this high-fat diet, the mice in the aspartame group showed elevated fasting glucose levels but equal or diminished insulin levels, consistent with early declines in pancreatic beta-cell function. The difference in insulin levels between the groups was not statistically significant. Beta cells make insulin, the hormone that lowers blood sugar after a meal. Imbalance ultimately leads to diabetes.
These results suggest that heavy aspartame exposure might potentially directly contribute to increased blood glucose levels, and thus contribute to the associations observed between diet soda consumption and the risk of diabetes in humans, Dr. Fernandes said.
Secondary sources for glucose increase from aspartame usage:
Zad
68
19:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
(My emphasis.)If the findings involve phase I or phase II clinical trials, small studies, studies that did not directly measure clinically important results, laboratory work with animal models, or isolated cells or tissue, then these findings are probably only indirectly relevant to understanding human health; in these cases, they should be entirely omitted.
Zad
68
19:52, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
19:45, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Alatari, honestly, let's cut to the chase - there's no chance of a consensus forming to support anything even close to what you're proposing using the kinds of sources you're bringing, and if I were you I'd think my editing time would probably be better off spent on something else. ill-considered comment struck
Zad
68
21:06, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Zad
68
21:16, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
A preponderance of reliable source state that aspartame is safe; wikipedia reports what reliable sources say. a13ean ( talk) 16:09, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I am very sorry but I disagree with your statement that A preponderance of reliable sources say aspartame is safe. have you thought of being slightly cynical of industry sponsored studies.
Claustro123 (
talk)
15:30, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Does not work.
Claustro123 ( talk) 04:37, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
What function does this paragraph serve? It is over 15 years old and does not seem to meet the high standards of Wikipedia. Claustro123 ( talk) 18:44, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Claustro123 about the Internet Conspiracy. I would be inclined to omit the paragraph on the internet conspiracy or at least cut it in half. The tone is not that of an encyclopedia. The question of whether there were unlikely allegations made by anonymous people doesn't speak to the substance of the question of whether aspartame does or does not have health effects. Bad information on the internet is certainly not the only reason there have been questions about aspartame, as the profusion of scientific papers on the subject attests. Eperotao ( talk) 06:02, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
In particular, I have edited the paragraph on Health and Appetite, adding reputable sources that give a different perspective. The paragraph would have been hard for a general audience to read. It was certainly one-sided, repeatedly citing the same source that is behind a paywall and whose abstract did not support what was said in that paragraph. The paragraph also asserted that there was little research on aspartame and appetite. In fact, a quick search of google scholar reveals large numbers of papers on this topic over many years. I don't have a dog in the aspartame fight, but this was such a blatant untruth, I have begun to suspect that this discussion is biased. Eperotao ( talk) 06:11, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I have been reading more of this Talk page with some surprise. I have looked at the section of WP:MEDRS that discusses animals studies. It directs us not to suggest that animal studies are definitive. That's easy. Most human studies are not by themselves definitive either. WP:MEDRS does not rule out citation of animal studies. I am puzzled by the insistence on authoritative but secondary review articles combined with the presence of reference 7, which is neither. Eperotao ( talk) 07:43, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
if i posted Paragraph like the Internet Conspiracy one saying aspartame is dangerous it would be erased in milliseconds. Claustro123 ( talk) 15:35, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
This is a fascinating example of intense bias within a Wikipedia entry. Animal studies are acceptable according to the rules. I would say that an ensconced group of editors obviously has more time to defend a particular point of view position exhaustively than someone who wanders by looking for credible references to both sides of the controversy, which are not here. If this were a controversy about whether to be treated with antibiotics for a deadly infection, I could understand the conservatism over sources and position. But aspartame has no known health benefits. It's not a medical treatment or even a food in the usual biological sense. And as for it being an effective weight loss approach, the best that can be said is that diet drinks generally have not prevented an ongoing epidemic of obesity that began in the 1980s. Why resist with such vigor including the less aspartame-friendly evidence (on aspartame and other sweeteners, artificial or natural)? I can only think of one answer. Eperotao ( talk) 17:38, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I take it you do not see the Internet conspiracy paragraph as spurious material Claustro123 ( talk) 19:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Claustro123 and Eperotao -- if you want to introduce new material, here is what you need to do. Read the most recent and best secondary and tertiary MEDRS sources you can find - ideally ones that review studies in humans. Create content based on them. Post it in the article directly, or if you want to be more community-friendly (which is a savvy thing to do on a page like this one where wingnuts fly by and vandalize the page relentlessly with BS based on the ubiquitous internet conspiracy materials), then you could post it here in Talk first. Please note that I did NOT say, think about what you want to write and then find MEDRS 2ndary or 3-ary sources of studies in humans to back it up. That is backwards. But whatever content you bring to wikipedia, especially to a contested page like this, use only the best sources -- ones that even an ideological opponent of whatever content you want to post, cannot impugn, and state the content neutrally, again so whatever opponents there might be cannot complain. And best source = most recent MEDRS 2ndary or 3-ary reviews of studies in humans, or for toxicity content, most recent MEDRS 2ndary or 3-ary reviews of tox studies by toxicologists. If, after you have read the best sources that you can find, you should discover that there is nothing there to support the idea that aspartame promotes weight gain/metabolic syndrome, perhaps you might want to rethink your position on that. You may also find that the best sources do not provide a black and white answer on that issue. If the best sources present an ambiguous picture, then you can create wikipedia content representing the ambiguity. The absolute worst thing you can do - the one that wastes everybody's time including yours -- is to complain on the Talk page that your opponents are being too strict - especially when your sources are not the best ones available. This is a community of minds - there are challenges here as well as kumbayahs. Rise to the challenge and bring the best sources. Then everybody wins. Also, please do not be sloppy and bring sources about "diet soda" - especially sources that do not describe what sweetener was in the diet soda used in the study. That kind of source will get kicked out right away, and rightly so. This is a page about aspartame, not about "diet soda". Jytdog ( talk) 19:59, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
We should go back to the basics of WP: If we have a preponderance of studies in peer-reviewed journals stating X, then who are we to challenge X unless we can source reliable sources that challenge X. I think the POV tag should be removed from this article unless someone can provide some reliable sources that challenge the statements in the article. Angryapathy ( talk) 17:11, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Okay. I have Magnuson. Her lengthy 2007 review for the D.C.-based Burdock Group was sponsored by Ajinomoto, the world's largest manufacturer of aspartame. Magnuson's review is mainly focused on short term toxicity, carcinogenic potential and, somewhat, neurotoxic effects. Of the 100 pages, less than one page refers to the question of any possible connection between aspertame and metabolic syndrome. The only relevant study cited by Dr. Magnuson was de la Hunty's review, also funded by Ajinomoto, the world's largest manufacturer of aspartame, with, according to Wikipedia, 40% market share. Neither article addresses aspartame and waist size, a known risk factor for heart disease and type 2 diabetes. Research on the posited connection between diet sodas and metabolic syndrome is well covered by Medscape, a website of SECONDARY medical news for doctors. Eperotao ( talk) 19:25, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I do not know what a noticeboard is. My interest is in the integeraty of Wikipedia. This article seems to depart from the high standards you usually adheare to. You should not spread roomers as you do in The Internet Conspiricy paragraph. You should not ignore conflict of interest as you do above. Wikipedia is the world's refference standard. It should be above reproach. Please try to uphold the standards that have made you a major force on the Internet. Claustro123 ( talk) 18:02, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
As I understand it, the "aspartame controversy" concerns the initial approval of aspartame, and lingering concerns about whether or not it is actually safe. Is that what everybody thinks? I am asking this, because 2 recent visitors in the Talk sections above, seem focused on the issue of whether there is a relationship between aspartame and weight gain. Now, I don't think the question about weight gain was or is part of the initial controversy - instead, that seems to be a new thing. And I am not sure that the potential relationship between aspartame and weight gain is a "controversy" per se. Another thing - there is a section in the article on "Weight change and hunger." I propose that the "Weight change and hunger" content should get moved out of this article and put in the main aspartame article and that this article should remain focused on the initial controversy over aspartame's toxicity/safety. What do you think? Jytdog ( talk) 18:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
I oppose this change of name because the article is about the controversy, not just claims about health effects. TFD ( talk) 01:29, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Jinkinson's effort to change the name was respectable under WP:BRD, so too the reversion. Now that we are in the "D" phase, I too oppose the name change to Aspartame and Health as the controversy is broader than that. Also the accompanying edit note "This new title is more accurate, and now we can include all the info about how allegedly bad for you it is." is wrong-headed - there are no MEDRS sources supporting content that aspartame is "allegedly bad for you" so it is not clear what "info" about that, will ever be in WIkipedia except a) in the context of some specific controversy, scientific (e.g. Ramazzini studies) or regulatory, as is already discussed in this article; or b) in the health effects section of the aspartame article itself, where such claims are simply shot down using MEDRS sources. Jytdog ( talk) 08:49, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
From a professor etc. It might not add anything new, but at least it´s recent. [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk • contribs)
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/3496.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.104.67.222 ( talk) 17:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
This article is on my watchlist and the revert that was made seemed to make the article extremely non-neutral and weasily so I reverted. After coming back and reviewing the sources more closely realized the wording is appropriate. I made two small changes:
Sorry for my first inaccurate revert. Alatari ( talk) 21:08, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
You should add something about the Panara restaurant chain announcing that they will not be serving anything with aspartame and many other substances after the end of 2016. 131.109.36.10 ( talk) 16:52, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
They have removed many additives from their foods because of the perception that these additives are not healthy. Most likely this perception comes from the fact that many other countries are healthier than the USA. ( We are number 35.) Cuba for instance has a healthier population than the USA. Aspartame is one of the additives they will remove. This fact belongs in this article. Quione ( talk) 23:49, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
Is it significant enough to mention? A source. Zero Serenity ( talk - contributions) 19:30, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
This article promotes the viewpoint that any existing scientific study of aspartame that does not proclaim it to be completely safe is bogus (outside of those individuals possessing a rare condition), and the result of "conspiracy theory." Citing a couple references, in a widely studied and controversial commercial product, that make these sort of proclamations, is a rather dishonest tactic.
Anyone can google the subject to verify how slanted this article is, and verify the growing weight of peer-reviewed scientific evidence for broadly harmful effects of aspartame. The only issue is whether or not Wikipedia is to retain relevance as an information source, or simply be regarded as an outlet for disinformation by vested interests. Wikibearwithme ( talk) 20:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
There is a useful list of peer-reviewed literature (title, pub. date) on aspartame at this link: http://www.mpwhi.com/peer_reviewed_research.htm. These articles are further linked at that webpage.
18 Nov 2014 - Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2006;15(9). September 2006 - Consumption Of Aspartame-Containing Beverages And Incidence Of Hematopoietic And Brain Malignancies [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Artificial Sweetener Consumption And Urinary Tract Tumors In Cordoba, Argentina [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Aspartame Administered In Feed, Beginning Prenatally Through Life Span, Induces Cancers Of The Liver And Lung In Male Swiss Mice [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Associations Of Sugar And Artificially Sweetened Soda With Albuminuria And Kidney Function Decline In Women [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Consumption Of Artificial Sweetener – And Sugar-Containing Soda And Rick Of Lymphoma And Leukemia In Men And Women [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Cytotoxic Effects Of Methanol , Formaldehyde, And Formate On Disassociated Rat Thymocytes: A Possibility Of Aspartame Toxicity [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Effective Of long Term Intake Of Aspartame On Antioxidant Defense Status In Liver [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Effect Of Chronic Exposure To Aspartame On Oxidative Stress In The Brain Of Albino Rats [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 30 May 2013 - Formaldehyde Derived From Dietary Aspartame Binds To Tissue Components In Vivo [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 21 Feb 2013 - Vascular Health Sciences Medical Advisor: I'll Say It Again, Stay Away From Aspartame [Vascular Health Sciences Medical Advisor Dr. DeSilva points to landmark research results to reiterate the dangers of aspartame 18 Feb 2013 - The Effect Of Aspartame Administration On Oncogene And Suppressor Gene Expressions [2007 Hungarian study] 18 Feb 2013 - 'Diet' Drinks Associated With Increased Risk Of Type II Diabetes 18 Feb 2013 - Alcohol Mixed With Diet Drinks May Increase Intoxication More Than Alcohol And Regular Drinks 18 Feb 2013 - Are Diet Soft Drinks Bad For You? 28 Jan 2013 - Diet Soda, Aspartame Shown To Destroy Kidney Function 15 Jan 2013 - No Safe Dose Of Aspartame [Remember that Dr. Adrian Gross, FDA scientist and toxicologist, told Congress, Senate, 8/1/85 that there is no safe dose of aspartame because it causes cancer. It can never be proven safe. He said FDA should have been able to even set an allowable daily intake. - Dr. B. Martini, D.Hum.] 15 Jan 2013 - India: Chronic Exposure To Aspartame Results In Oxidative Stress In Brains Of Albino Rats As Well As Methanol Formation 8/31/12 Aspartame = Corporate Espionage 03 Jan 2013 - Studies On The Effects Of Aspartame On Memory And Oxidative Stress In Brain Of Mice - Egypt 26 Nov 2012 - Consumption Of Artificial Sweetener And Sugar Containing Soda And The Risk Of Lymphoma And Leukemia In Men And Women (Includes Study (Aspartame) And Commentaries) 13 July 2012 - Gender Dimorphism in Aspartame-Induced Impairment Of Spatial Cognition And Insulin Sensitivity [Here is a new study proving that aspartame affects in utero the spatial cognition of male mice. Isn't it interesting that almost 100% of independent, scientific peer reviewed research for over 3 decades show the problems that aspartame cause, and that it is unsafe. I wonder how the manufacturer will try to rebut this one which is what they do with each damning study. The FDA will simply ignore it as they have done with all the damning studies. When is enough enough?! – Dr. B. Martini, D.Hum.] [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 12 Oct 2011 - Early Aspartame Study Proved Cancers - Call For Data #2 12 Oct 2011 - EFSA Call For Data: #3 28 Sep 2011 - Aspartame - Call For Data Independent Scientific Peer Reviewed Research 28 Sep 2011 - Aspartame-Induced Thrombocytopenia [PDF format] (It will open in a new window) 26 Sep 2011 - Recent Independent Aspartame Research Results & News (1998 - 2007) 23 Sep 2011 - Adverse Effects Of Aspartame: Current Bibliographies In Medicine, National Institutes Of Health, Health And Human Resources (167 Citations) 23 Sep 2011 - Survey Of Aspartame Studies: Correlation Of Outcome And Funding Sources 16 Sep 2011 - Adverse Reactions To Aspartame: Double-Blind Challenge In Patients From A Vulnerable Population 16 Sep 2011 - Aspartame And Psychiatric Disorders 16 Sep 2011 - Report On Aspartame And Children 09 Sep 2011 - Aspartame Studies: Includes Industry And Independent 27 Aug 2011 - Recent Peer-Reviewed Studies Critical Of Aspartame (Methanol, Formaldehyde, Formic Acid) 13 Aug 2011 - Scientific Peer Reviewed Independent Studies On Aspartame
Wikibearwithme ( talk) 23:33, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
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ASPARTAME: Please read and cite Dr Monte's book "While Science Sleeps a sweetener kills". It is a real eye opener. He has done some pretty convincing research and study pointing to chronic low level methanol exposure as a factor in the diseases of modern civilization. Humans, unlike other animals, cannot metabolize methanol. Methanol is highly toxic to humans in quite small doses. Methanol breaks down to, among other things, the very reactive and destructive formaldehyde. [of course formaldehyde does not appear in human tissues because it reacts too fast.] Aspartame can be up to 11% methanol. Methanol is also found in other foods and non food things in our modern day world. This is a rather simplistic look at a highly complicated subject but you really have overlooked or pushed aside some rather profound work in your write up of Aspartame. Elvie Fornshell — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elvie Fornshell ( talk • contribs) 02:06, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
If he says that humans can't metabolize methanol, he's talking out of his rear. Humans can metabolize methanol, just not very well. Fruit contains small quantities of (naturally occurring) methanol as well, so if we couldn't metabolize methanol at all, we'd be dead fairly quickly. Stui ( talk) 18:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
The Washington Post article linked to debunk Methanol content does no such thing. Also the FDA rep David Hattan quoted on Snopes: [2] says:
Second, the claim that aspartame ingestion results in the production of methanol, formaldehyde and formate: These claims are factual. In the gastrointestinal tract aspartame is hydrolyzed to one of its component materials, methanol, as well as the two amino acids, phenylalanine and aspartic acid. This methanol is taken up by the cells of the body and metabolized first to formaldehyde and then to formate.
216.168.105.37 ( talk) 17:36, 23 November 2016 (UTC) (this is User:MtB I just can't prove it right now).
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Perhaps you might be interested in this?
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/20045
Quione ( talk) 16:30, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
This is a really important link. My vote goes for putting it on the webpage. Thanks.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Claustro123 ( talk • contribs) 18:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
see:
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/189/28/E929
Claustro123 ( talk) 17:01, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Without altering the intent, I reworked this section significantly to:
♦ improve source material referencing; restructure in-line citations for clarity;
♦ improve syntax, diction, and grammar for readability/aesthetics/neutral voice (i.e. – although possible/probable, concluding the ERF refused to cooperate is not justifiable on the record while their ineptness is on many counts);
♦ changed the content to better reflect the issues (e.g. – overcrowding of the animals was interpretable as an ethical issue not an elementary method breech and confound; "possibly carcinogenic infections" was too short, abstract and insufficient to convey the problem; etc...).
More can be done here and in several other pages as the ERF and CSPI continue to campaign on remarkably poor research. Interestingly, a newer investigation, including information from an on-site NTP inspection, found that with the exception of the lymphoma/leukemia bioassays (Soffritti's work regarding sucralose, aspartame, etc...) the ERF adheres to best-practices and produces reliable research ( Gift et al. 2013) . I find parenthetical citations vastly more aesthetically pleasing and compositionally functional. Please let me know if I have over-stepped by making the changes contemporaneous to this post.
Gift, Jeffrey S.; Caldwell, Jane C.; Jinot, Jennifer; Evans, Marina V.; Cote, Ila; Vandenberg, John J. (2013).
"Scientific Considerations for Evaluating Cancer Bioassays Conducted by the Ramazzini Institute". Environmental Health Perspectives. 121 (11–12): 1253–1263.
doi:
10.1289/ehp.1306661.
ISSN
0091-6765. Retrieved 2019-01-16. {{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)
BiosocialPolymath ( talk) 08:10, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
I do a great deal of technical research and writing, and appreciate the caution about primary sourcing. However, research done and communicated well, by truly professional principles not attached to the outcomes, often within themselves meet the exception in Wikipedia:MEDREV: at para 1 , " Primary sources may be presented together with secondary sources." That is, the primary source will conduct a scathing critique of itself with reference to extant work and standards within the field. In case you missed it I noted these were exceptional, as such they are worthy of being included amongst other rigorous sources.
BiosocialPolymath ( talk) 08:42, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that some of the references are now dead links and some of the references are not as robust as they should be around the Nancy Merkle email hoax. It isn't a quick fix, so I just wanted potential editors to know that I am starting an edit that will span sections but focus on the Merkle email.
Tpanagos ( talk) 13:18, 27 March 2019 (UTC)