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What is the solution. Can we correct wikipedia link with right spelling. Or we just have to live with it. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:21, 29 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 19:18, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
What if person wants to change his spelling or correct his name, what should he do? All his official documents have Asharam Bapu but media misspelled before correct it. Now they continue to use inspite multiple requests. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:39, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Redirect should work GB. Tilo-Dut I came to know from him directly and his personal websites and ashram websites were updated accordingly. I don't have access to his personal identify documents to prove this. Admin can check official website for change in name process. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
You might not get any 3rd party website to support his name as he decided to change his name. I will see if we can get any personal identify card from organization as all the links will show to old spelling only. I will work on this and get back to you assuming passport or driver's licence or affidavit should work as well for verification purpose to prove his name change. It is very hard to get it but will try. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:48, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I would tell before hand that He has same number of followers as same number of detractors(50-50). In order to bring neutrality into this page, contributors should be selected before hand to work on this page. Admin also need to know local language as lot of media coverage is in other than English language. You won't see any positive news in main stream media as he openly criticized them in public due to some differences. Some politics is also involved. Here are the some petition filed against media which got 170K signatures for all over the world. Web link is blocked. It is on petition org website. Narbajaj ( talk) 22:12, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
± GB fan has made a good point everything should be discussed and then added in this page. If we get the consensus. It would be better if this article is re-written with neutral perspective covering inputs from both parties. Tito Dutta had suggested earlier, Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over,which is a good idea. Saurabh hariom ( talk) 13:06, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Interpretation of Wikipedia standards is being followed much like law is interpreted by the police - as per own convenience. (Redacted) I am challenging the rational behind the moderation exercise for this story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumitkpal ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I know many of you are devotees but that does not mean that you should suppress [information] <Refactored comments per WP:BLP>. Why has this been removed? -- Crème3.14159 ( talk) 20:03, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
By the way, WP:BLPCRIME applies "for people who are relatively unknown"; Asaram is very well-known. Please read it.-- Crème3.14159 ( talk) 20:07, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Tito, Bapu may be notable in India but I think that globally he is a relative unknown.. and notability is not assessed by country like "person A" is notable in Africa and not in Asia etc. We check overall notability. See WP:GNG criteria. BTW, I know that Crème3.14159's second question was a complicated one, since WP:BLPCRIME does not clarify what they mean by "known/unknown", don't worry about that.
In my view, the only "loophole" in BLPCRIME is the "relatively unknown" language. For further illumination on what that means, editors should look at WP:PERP (although this is a notability section within a policy page), and in particular the language under "For perpetrators". Without looking into previous discussions on this issue, I think the most helpful point is the first one: "The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities." The foonote gives an example of John Hinckley Jr. as someone who is well enough known. Notice that the person has to be "renowned", not just well known, but he doesn't have to be internationally renowned, he can be renowned, in this case, in India. My sense is that Bapu doesn't meet that standard, but the purpose of a discussion on that issue would be to reach a clear consensus on whether he does or doesn't. Where should that discussion take place? I wouldn't hold it on the talk page of WP:BLP unless you want to discuss the policy itself, not a particular case. Same for WP:VPP ("If you have a question about how to apply an existing policy or guideline, try the one of the many Wikipedia:Noticeboards. "). I would probably start with BLPN but in my view you need a fair amount of input from uninvolved editors (it seems obvious to me that some of the editors on this talk page have an agenda, either pro or anti Bapu). That might require a combination of BLPN and an RfC.
Frankly, I think editorial energies would be better spent cleaning up the article and putting in balanced information about the subject without even trying to put in criminal allegations at this point. That work would serve two purposes. First, it would improve what at the moment is a very poor article. Second, it would help in the discussion of how well-known he is so you would already have a headstart on that issue before discussing it in detail. That, of course, is not my call, but was asked to comment, so I have.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 13:49, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
In India it sometimes takes decades to get a court judgement. Sanjay Dutt was arrested first time in 1993, in 2013 he has been sentenced for jail. And that is till continuing. And there are many controversies which never get settled.The question remained unanswered (see my 23:28, 29 August 2013 (UTC) post here). Really it takes a long time in India to get court judgement. I am quite sure some of the controversies mentioned here will never get settled. So, we are actually closing all the doors to improve and update the article. "we can not write anything about a BLPCRIME before court verdict" might be perfect in US, an "impractical" concept here. That's the thing Redtigerxyz tried to say on the very first day and now he has left. To summarize what the WikiProject India editors are trying to say here: We want to write these sections like this and we will take every possible care and add multiple RS in each section:
In "month" "year", "this" allegation was brought against the "subject".[ref] A said "this", B said "that".[ref]. After initial investigation police said "this".[ref] But, "subject" in an interview totally denied this allegation saying "this and that" [ref][ref] and C told it was a conspiracy against the subject. As of "month" "Year" the subject was not convicted by the court and the court has not given any verdict.[ref]
The situation is getting complicated, when talk page sources are being removed too. Not everyone can explain their points with A, B, C, D "Month", "Year", the way I have done just above. And, you actually need to provide citations to establish your points. -- Tito☸ Dutta 17:15, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Because the policy issues continue to be contentious, I have again raised the issue of my administrative actions at WP:AN. If you have anything to say, please do so there. Thanks.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 17:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"This article may rely excessively on sources too closely against with the subject, preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. Please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources"
-- Please put it at the top of the article before people read it as a disclaimer. Narbajaj ( talk) 16:09, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Can someone add this image to the article so that there is an image of the person (preferably to the standard template already there)? IRWolfie- ( talk) 01:03, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
[Note: this section was inappropriately removed. Please do not remove it again, Bbb23 without consensus. BLP is not at issue here - these are all reliable sources for verifiable facts. Please review WP:BLP for deeper understanding.]
I am merely recounting here quotes that I found in a quick search for reliable sources along with some notes for those editors who may not be familiar with major Indian newspapers and television networks.
It is inappropriate to continue removing this information from this talk page. As to how it should be presented in the article, I leave that for discussion. But such discussion can only take place if editors discuss it openly and frankly in light of the numerous reliable sources.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 17:09, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
A person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until proven guilty and convicted by a court of law. For people who are relatively unknown, editors must give serious consideration to not including material in any article suggesting that the person has committed, or is accused of committing, a crime unless a conviction is secured.[6] If different judicial proceedings result in seemingly contradictory judgements that do not override each other,[7] refrain from using pithy descriptors or absolutes and instead use more explanatory information.
Wikipedia does not have to follow breaking or incomplete news stories; we are generally incomplete. In the case of situations such as this we are best to avoid covering the majority of recent events until their resolution. Take, as an example, the Meredith Kercher article - for several years we reported Amanda Knox as a murderess, until she was eventually found innocent on appeal. Endless arguments and slander were dumped on that talk page to little or no value. The point of BLP, and in particular BLPCRIME, is to emphasise that we must be careful in covering subjects where there is no firm resolution and where the majority of content revolves around the words 'allegations'. I think there is capacity to briefly cover these incidents, but currently the article is basically a hit piece and that is deeply inappropriate. As I understand it this individual said some unpleasant things about the 2012 Dehli rape and that has encouraged this sort of SPA shit-dumping. It doesn't behove us to pander to that, we are above it. Such individuals should be topic-banned from the article. -- Errant ( chat!) 09:53, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
In 2008, two boys disappeared from his residential school on his ashram. Two days later, their mutilated bodies were found in a river. A chargesheet has been file against him and his son. Because of the public agitation over this matter, this has been widely covered in the media. Why should this not be mentioned in this article? I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be mentioned. Google Asaram Bapu death of boys. -- Crème3.14159 ( talk) 11:46, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
New York Times has a article on Asaram Babu, which can and should be used to expand the coverage of the wikipedia article, including:
(Redacted) I'll leave it to the regular editors here to review and add in the required material. 50.148.126.65 ( talk) 20:28, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
(Redacted)
I'll just say that this is a blog, not an article, and that parts of it were copy/pasted from other blogs, which in turn were copy/pasted from somewhere else. I could track part of the information to an unsigned Indian blog. We need a better source than this. There are Indian newspapers who have actually talked to Indian police officers. -- Enric Naval ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 16:46, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
It is a third party website where only NYT employees can write blogs.
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/author/snigdha-poonam/ She has number article on South Asia subject and NYT will not cover Indian news in article unless it is related politics or USA specific. I would support this article to be taken as one of the resource to add the data into main article. If we are going after reliable resoource in Indian media, you won't get it because Asaram Bapu does not believe in paid news. I am in support of adding content into from this page.
Narbajaj (
talk)
08:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with you. Indian media article poorly sourced article and fail to both side case. Recently there was big question on credibility of Indian media and its media trail. Some time they sensationalize news rather than reporting. See the blog with some points for you to think on instead of relying purely on media article to source this article. This case has been where every thing is distorted at will and no proper sources has been taken. http://chalupurza.com/2013/09/02/asaram-saga-perfect-case-of-distorted-media-trial/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.241.95 ( talk) 08:33, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
It seems that there is a reluctance to use the term "rape" in this article and even on the talk page. In the article the term was recently changed to "sexual assault" with the edit summary of "use less evocative language." Please, let's be clear: The term "rape" is not resorting to evocative language. When a woman is raped, the proper term to use is rape, not sexual assault.
I am not suggesting any change in the wording in our article since the charge includes several forms of sexual assault, including rape. Gandydancer ( talk) 15:48, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
Refer to this article for definition. [1] -- 64.118.81.157 ( talk) 07:18, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
I am suggesting to add an edit notice, specially after this edit We were discussing above whether we should keep or delete this portion and one editor went ahead and deleted the portion. Yesterday too, when we where making a draft of the recent controversy, other editors started making changes in the article. Such edits are hampering the discussions here and causing/may cause unnecessary edit war. I can (but I'll not) revert the recent edit commenting, "see at the talk page, it is being discussed there". In the editnotice, we can ask to check discussions in the talk page first, get consensus etc. In addition, we can add those WP:BLP, WP:V, WP:NPOV suggestions too. -- Tito☸ Dutta 19:06, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
Asaram was accused of slapping a Tv cameraperson on April 26, 2012. Ref, Dainik Bhaskar, India's largest news paper group. Not sure if it really is.
Ajay Bir Singh counsel of the petitioner alleged that, Asaram slapped Sachin Kumar when he didn't follow the Bapu's instruction to film the crowd during a Samagam (meeting) in Ghaziabad district of U.P. The Kavi Nagar police of the district had registered an FIR under section 323 of IPC (voluntarily causing hurt) against Asaram on complaint registered by the Journalist. jagran blog Times of India. -- Anup Mehra ✈ 13:54, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
There is not a lot in the article about what he did before making it big in the spiritual business. We must add references related to his early life. One news article states that he was a tongawallah in Ajmer who stood out with his cushioned tonga. [2] -- CopSuscept ( talk) 09:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC) This user is a sock of Crème3.14159 ( talk · contribs). -- SMS Talk 04:14, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
I tried to avoid the section Asaram_Bapu#Allegations_of_sexual_assault, but while studying the comments of User:Gandydancer above, I felt the whole section needs to be rewritten. Note the following issues—
Earlier, Section 375 of the Indian Penal Code defined rape as sexual intercourse with a woman against her will, without her consent, by coercion, misrepresentation or fraud or at a time when she has been intoxicated or duped, or is of unsound mental health and in any case if she is under 16 years of age. It covered only penal-vaginal sexual penetration. But the Criminal Law (Amendment) Act, 2013 after the December 16 gang-rape case has widened the definition of rape. Under the new definition of rape, a man is said to commit rape if he penetrates his penis, to any extent, into the vagina, mouth, urethra or anus of a woman or makes her to do so with him or any other person. Even inserting, to any extent, any object or a part of the body, not being the penis, into the vagina, the urethra or anus of a woman or makes her to do so with him or any other person amounts to rape.
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
What is the solution. Can we correct wikipedia link with right spelling. Or we just have to live with it. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:21, 29 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narbajaj ( talk • contribs) 19:18, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
What if person wants to change his spelling or correct his name, what should he do? All his official documents have Asharam Bapu but media misspelled before correct it. Now they continue to use inspite multiple requests. Narbajaj ( talk) 19:39, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Redirect should work GB. Tilo-Dut I came to know from him directly and his personal websites and ashram websites were updated accordingly. I don't have access to his personal identify documents to prove this. Admin can check official website for change in name process. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
You might not get any 3rd party website to support his name as he decided to change his name. I will see if we can get any personal identify card from organization as all the links will show to old spelling only. I will work on this and get back to you assuming passport or driver's licence or affidavit should work as well for verification purpose to prove his name change. It is very hard to get it but will try. Narbajaj ( talk) 20:48, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I would tell before hand that He has same number of followers as same number of detractors(50-50). In order to bring neutrality into this page, contributors should be selected before hand to work on this page. Admin also need to know local language as lot of media coverage is in other than English language. You won't see any positive news in main stream media as he openly criticized them in public due to some differences. Some politics is also involved. Here are the some petition filed against media which got 170K signatures for all over the world. Web link is blocked. It is on petition org website. Narbajaj ( talk) 22:12, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
± GB fan has made a good point everything should be discussed and then added in this page. If we get the consensus. It would be better if this article is re-written with neutral perspective covering inputs from both parties. Tito Dutta had suggested earlier, Wikipedia:Blow it up and start over,which is a good idea. Saurabh hariom ( talk) 13:06, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Interpretation of Wikipedia standards is being followed much like law is interpreted by the police - as per own convenience. (Redacted) I am challenging the rational behind the moderation exercise for this story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumitkpal ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I know many of you are devotees but that does not mean that you should suppress [information] <Refactored comments per WP:BLP>. Why has this been removed? -- Crème3.14159 ( talk) 20:03, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
By the way, WP:BLPCRIME applies "for people who are relatively unknown"; Asaram is very well-known. Please read it.-- Crème3.14159 ( talk) 20:07, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Tito, Bapu may be notable in India but I think that globally he is a relative unknown.. and notability is not assessed by country like "person A" is notable in Africa and not in Asia etc. We check overall notability. See WP:GNG criteria. BTW, I know that Crème3.14159's second question was a complicated one, since WP:BLPCRIME does not clarify what they mean by "known/unknown", don't worry about that.
In my view, the only "loophole" in BLPCRIME is the "relatively unknown" language. For further illumination on what that means, editors should look at WP:PERP (although this is a notability section within a policy page), and in particular the language under "For perpetrators". Without looking into previous discussions on this issue, I think the most helpful point is the first one: "The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities." The foonote gives an example of John Hinckley Jr. as someone who is well enough known. Notice that the person has to be "renowned", not just well known, but he doesn't have to be internationally renowned, he can be renowned, in this case, in India. My sense is that Bapu doesn't meet that standard, but the purpose of a discussion on that issue would be to reach a clear consensus on whether he does or doesn't. Where should that discussion take place? I wouldn't hold it on the talk page of WP:BLP unless you want to discuss the policy itself, not a particular case. Same for WP:VPP ("If you have a question about how to apply an existing policy or guideline, try the one of the many Wikipedia:Noticeboards. "). I would probably start with BLPN but in my view you need a fair amount of input from uninvolved editors (it seems obvious to me that some of the editors on this talk page have an agenda, either pro or anti Bapu). That might require a combination of BLPN and an RfC.
Frankly, I think editorial energies would be better spent cleaning up the article and putting in balanced information about the subject without even trying to put in criminal allegations at this point. That work would serve two purposes. First, it would improve what at the moment is a very poor article. Second, it would help in the discussion of how well-known he is so you would already have a headstart on that issue before discussing it in detail. That, of course, is not my call, but was asked to comment, so I have.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 13:49, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
In India it sometimes takes decades to get a court judgement. Sanjay Dutt was arrested first time in 1993, in 2013 he has been sentenced for jail. And that is till continuing. And there are many controversies which never get settled.The question remained unanswered (see my 23:28, 29 August 2013 (UTC) post here). Really it takes a long time in India to get court judgement. I am quite sure some of the controversies mentioned here will never get settled. So, we are actually closing all the doors to improve and update the article. "we can not write anything about a BLPCRIME before court verdict" might be perfect in US, an "impractical" concept here. That's the thing Redtigerxyz tried to say on the very first day and now he has left. To summarize what the WikiProject India editors are trying to say here: We want to write these sections like this and we will take every possible care and add multiple RS in each section:
In "month" "year", "this" allegation was brought against the "subject".[ref] A said "this", B said "that".[ref]. After initial investigation police said "this".[ref] But, "subject" in an interview totally denied this allegation saying "this and that" [ref][ref] and C told it was a conspiracy against the subject. As of "month" "Year" the subject was not convicted by the court and the court has not given any verdict.[ref]
The situation is getting complicated, when talk page sources are being removed too. Not everyone can explain their points with A, B, C, D "Month", "Year", the way I have done just above. And, you actually need to provide citations to establish your points. -- Tito☸ Dutta 17:15, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Because the policy issues continue to be contentious, I have again raised the issue of my administrative actions at WP:AN. If you have anything to say, please do so there. Thanks.-- Bbb23 ( talk) 17:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"This article may rely excessively on sources too closely against with the subject, preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. Please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources"
-- Please put it at the top of the article before people read it as a disclaimer. Narbajaj ( talk) 16:09, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Can someone add this image to the article so that there is an image of the person (preferably to the standard template already there)? IRWolfie- ( talk) 01:03, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
[Note: this section was inappropriately removed. Please do not remove it again, Bbb23 without consensus. BLP is not at issue here - these are all reliable sources for verifiable facts. Please review WP:BLP for deeper understanding.]
I am merely recounting here quotes that I found in a quick search for reliable sources along with some notes for those editors who may not be familiar with major Indian newspapers and television networks.
It is inappropriate to continue removing this information from this talk page. As to how it should be presented in the article, I leave that for discussion. But such discussion can only take place if editors discuss it openly and frankly in light of the numerous reliable sources.-- Jimbo Wales ( talk) 17:09, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
A person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until proven guilty and convicted by a court of law. For people who are relatively unknown, editors must give serious consideration to not including material in any article suggesting that the person has committed, or is accused of committing, a crime unless a conviction is secured.[6] If different judicial proceedings result in seemingly contradictory judgements that do not override each other,[7] refrain from using pithy descriptors or absolutes and instead use more explanatory information.
Wikipedia does not have to follow breaking or incomplete news stories; we are generally incomplete. In the case of situations such as this we are best to avoid covering the majority of recent events until their resolution. Take, as an example, the Meredith Kercher article - for several years we reported Amanda Knox as a murderess, until she was eventually found innocent on appeal. Endless arguments and slander were dumped on that talk page to little or no value. The point of BLP, and in particular BLPCRIME, is to emphasise that we must be careful in covering subjects where there is no firm resolution and where the majority of content revolves around the words 'allegations'. I think there is capacity to briefly cover these incidents, but currently the article is basically a hit piece and that is deeply inappropriate. As I understand it this individual said some unpleasant things about the 2012 Dehli rape and that has encouraged this sort of SPA shit-dumping. It doesn't behove us to pander to that, we are above it. Such individuals should be topic-banned from the article. -- Errant ( chat!) 09:53, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
In 2008, two boys disappeared from his residential school on his ashram. Two days later, their mutilated bodies were found in a river. A chargesheet has been file against him and his son. Because of the public agitation over this matter, this has been widely covered in the media. Why should this not be mentioned in this article? I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be mentioned. Google Asaram Bapu death of boys. -- Crème3.14159 ( talk) 11:46, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
New York Times has a article on Asaram Babu, which can and should be used to expand the coverage of the wikipedia article, including:
(Redacted) I'll leave it to the regular editors here to review and add in the required material. 50.148.126.65 ( talk) 20:28, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
(Redacted)
I'll just say that this is a blog, not an article, and that parts of it were copy/pasted from other blogs, which in turn were copy/pasted from somewhere else. I could track part of the information to an unsigned Indian blog. We need a better source than this. There are Indian newspapers who have actually talked to Indian police officers. -- Enric Naval ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 16:46, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
It is a third party website where only NYT employees can write blogs.
http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/author/snigdha-poonam/ She has number article on South Asia subject and NYT will not cover Indian news in article unless it is related politics or USA specific. I would support this article to be taken as one of the resource to add the data into main article. If we are going after reliable resoource in Indian media, you won't get it because Asaram Bapu does not believe in paid news. I am in support of adding content into from this page.
Narbajaj (
talk)
08:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with you. Indian media article poorly sourced article and fail to both side case. Recently there was big question on credibility of Indian media and its media trail. Some time they sensationalize news rather than reporting. See the blog with some points for you to think on instead of relying purely on media article to source this article. This case has been where every thing is distorted at will and no proper sources has been taken. http://chalupurza.com/2013/09/02/asaram-saga-perfect-case-of-distorted-media-trial/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.241.95 ( talk) 08:33, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
It seems that there is a reluctance to use the term "rape" in this article and even on the talk page. In the article the term was recently changed to "sexual assault" with the edit summary of "use less evocative language." Please, let's be clear: The term "rape" is not resorting to evocative language. When a woman is raped, the proper term to use is rape, not sexual assault.
I am not suggesting any change in the wording in our article since the charge includes several forms of sexual assault, including rape. Gandydancer ( talk) 15:48, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
Refer to this article for definition. [1] -- 64.118.81.157 ( talk) 07:18, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
I am suggesting to add an edit notice, specially after this edit We were discussing above whether we should keep or delete this portion and one editor went ahead and deleted the portion. Yesterday too, when we where making a draft of the recent controversy, other editors started making changes in the article. Such edits are hampering the discussions here and causing/may cause unnecessary edit war. I can (but I'll not) revert the recent edit commenting, "see at the talk page, it is being discussed there". In the editnotice, we can ask to check discussions in the talk page first, get consensus etc. In addition, we can add those WP:BLP, WP:V, WP:NPOV suggestions too. -- Tito☸ Dutta 19:06, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
Asaram was accused of slapping a Tv cameraperson on April 26, 2012. Ref, Dainik Bhaskar, India's largest news paper group. Not sure if it really is.
Ajay Bir Singh counsel of the petitioner alleged that, Asaram slapped Sachin Kumar when he didn't follow the Bapu's instruction to film the crowd during a Samagam (meeting) in Ghaziabad district of U.P. The Kavi Nagar police of the district had registered an FIR under section 323 of IPC (voluntarily causing hurt) against Asaram on complaint registered by the Journalist. jagran blog Times of India. -- Anup Mehra ✈ 13:54, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
There is not a lot in the article about what he did before making it big in the spiritual business. We must add references related to his early life. One news article states that he was a tongawallah in Ajmer who stood out with his cushioned tonga. [2] -- CopSuscept ( talk) 09:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC) This user is a sock of Crème3.14159 ( talk · contribs). -- SMS Talk 04:14, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
I tried to avoid the section Asaram_Bapu#Allegations_of_sexual_assault, but while studying the comments of User:Gandydancer above, I felt the whole section needs to be rewritten. Note the following issues—
Earlier, Section 375 of the Indian Penal Code defined rape as sexual intercourse with a woman against her will, without her consent, by coercion, misrepresentation or fraud or at a time when she has been intoxicated or duped, or is of unsound mental health and in any case if she is under 16 years of age. It covered only penal-vaginal sexual penetration. But the Criminal Law (Amendment) Act, 2013 after the December 16 gang-rape case has widened the definition of rape. Under the new definition of rape, a man is said to commit rape if he penetrates his penis, to any extent, into the vagina, mouth, urethra or anus of a woman or makes her to do so with him or any other person. Even inserting, to any extent, any object or a part of the body, not being the penis, into the vagina, the urethra or anus of a woman or makes her to do so with him or any other person amounts to rape.
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)